Is specifically 2D Sonic better than 2D Mario?

Mario were slower paced platformer where you hit enemy by jumping. sonic is fast paced ring collecting platformer and thus better.

I still prefer Mario over Sonic, maybe because i grew in the old Nintendo vs Sega war, but never have enjoyed a Sonic game not even remotely close to a Mario game, strangely enough i enjoy to watch someone playing a Sonic game way more than a Mario game.

Sonic is cap and is all about speed and memory skill. Mario is about taking your time and using brain to think. A monkey can play Sonic, but not Mario. Sonic was never really good, it was just all Sega had.

Yet, juxtaposed to that, there is a narrative 2D Sonic games are better than 2D Mario games, especially with the recently released Sonic Mania garnering much needed credibility to the IP.

From what I've seen most people tend to hold the 2d Mario games in much higher regard.

If we're going strictly by which one is a superior platforming experience I'd probably have to give it to Mario.

I bought Sonic Mania like two days ago, so I hope so!

No. Mario wins easily. Sonic's speed gimmick usually doesn't make for challenging platforming. You have so many roller coaster sections (loops and such) that don't require any player input.

Going Sonic on this one. It's the reason I chose Genesis and Game Gear over SNES and Game Boy. In Game Gear's part, it was only one reason but still a good one.

You just have to press the forward button to finish a Sonic game.

I never really liked Sonic games, and I used to love Mario games.

Can I mention 2D Donkey Kong Country?

There's a 3D DKC? DK64?

you haven't played either, so how would you know?

I think most Americans will go with Mario and most Europeans will pick Sonic. Nintendo was massive in the US, over there you didn't play video-games, you played Nintendo.

I remember when I was young I had both SNES and Megadrive and IMO Sonic destroyed Mario. I didnt play much of Mario because I was spoiled with Sonic and didn't think much to it. Sonic seemed to have more variety of everything: all the levels looked different with different tileset for each one, the were more variety in enemies, boss fights were all different and required different tactic's to beat, it had a variety of bonus stages for the chaos emeralds that added replay value etc. Mario seemed to have the same boss fight over and over again with about three tilesets repeated over and over and not many types of enemy.

For me, 2D Sonic was a far better game series than Mario.

Mario is more about precision and skill. Sonic tends to be about finding the best way through the level while keeping your speed up. I used to like Sonic a lot as a kid, but I much prefer Mario games.

Always found Sonic very annoying and Mario really fun.

Even having a Mega Drive back in the day, I prefer Mario. Still, Sonic was still dope.

2D and 3D. I also take Mega Man, NiGHTS, Castlevania, Metroid, Rodea, Shinobi, Rocket Knight, Azure Striker Gunvolt, Freedom Planet, and so on over Mario, whose 2D games are especially... bland.

I'm a big 2d sonic fan. I think it's patently false that it's all about speed - you will get absolutely wrecked if you don't balance speed with careful platforming. Good luck making it through literally the second act (Marble Zone) of the very first game if you just gun it. Proper and challenging platforming from the outset of the series.

I do think both series are epic. I'd choose sonic 2d if I had to, but I think Super Mario World is one of the best games ever made

Mario 3 alone is better than anything Sonic ever produced.

That's the only Rare game I never played :(

Everyone hates it apparently, but I've never found out for myself.

Oh! Hell no. 2D Mario is freaking fantastic.

I have fonder memories with 2D Sonic, so I'll go with that.

2D Sonic blows 2D Mario out of the water. 2D Sonic has deeper platforming mechanics, more sophisticated physics, more non-linear level design, faster pacing, higher replay value, better graphics, better music, and multiplayer options. 2D Sonic is superior to 2D Mario in almost every way imaginable. 2D Mario ain't got squat on 2D Sonic.

I’d pick 2D Mario over 2D Sonic all day everyday. Same with 3D one’s as well.

Yeah, team Mario. Prefer the feel of the platforming, and always found the level design to be more interesting and varied in its use of mechanics. Felt like an air tight marriage of mechanics and level design, what you want from a platformer at the very least. That even goes for those soulless NSMB games. Lacking a lot in style and creativity compared to the classics, but still some rock solid platformers.

Sonics 1, 2, 3, Knuckles, and now Mania all ooze style. Great music and scenery. Mania is like the antitheses to the NSMB games in that regard, channeled into what made the classics great and doubled down on it.

Was on a dunking spree with the classic Sonics for a while. Seemed my previous love for the games was based in nostalgia rather than them actually being good games. And to be honest, still not too fond of them. Always felt like a lot of the levels and enemies/enemy placements ran counter to the games mechanics and general goals. Still feel like a lot of those enemies and their projectiles suck from a readability and placement standpoint. And when you do slow your roll for slower paced segment, just felt like a floaty, slippery mess.

Though that may be a bad reading of those games. There is that higher level of play where it's all about ironing out the best route, keeping up the momentum. Essentially speed running obviously, but rather than just something you can do, more like what the games are designed to be. Trial and error until you can consistently come out with something clean.

I suppose it boils down to they both can be great, but the fun of Mario is more readily apparent, while Sonic takes a little more digging in.

In conclusion, Retros DKC games shit all over Rares efforts, and Rare has always been mad overrated.

Man, classic fanboy wars are where it's at. Talking about games, usually games where the main focus is gameplay. :D

I haven't played it since it came out lol. But really, I remember it being way more of a collectathon than a strong platformer, was pretty disappointed.

I know collecting x number of x thing was a big design trend at that time, but just felt DK64 was way too focused on that.

2D Sonic!! Why? There's more enemies, better detailed environments, faster pacing and uptempo soundtracks

I like both but Mario is better, enjoyed sonic mania but still think Mario is better, I hate the gather rings loose rings mechanic, I like actual lives.

Also the speed in sonic takes away from the platforming in many ways, all those ramps and loops are usually on rails.

Donkey Kong country, RAYMAN, Mario, are better than sonic.

Check out the level designs in Mario 3 on the original NES I'm not even talking about Super Nintendo or Sega genesis.

need to use stars to get all the way through the level this was like a Super Mario maker level before that game existed.

This game had like 7 unique airships, 7 unique Koopa kid bosses with different moves.

It had a frog suit, Tanooki Suit, hammer bro suit, and even could go in a giant shoe and jump on spikes with.

It had a royal army, Navy, airforce, and marine stages in world 8 and final showdown with bowser. It had great ending music an shows all the stages.

It was way ahead of times on NES and blows sonic outa the water from a gen earlier.

@ProtossRushX said:

Check out the level designs in Mario 3 on the original NES I'm not even talking about Super Nintendo or Sega genesis.

Was probably intentional, can never tell with you lol.

But

1. Bad example, that shit looks mad basic even if it is a fun level.

2. Showing a full level laid out doesn't really illustrate what makes a level tick.

3. If simply showing level layouts was a flex, the sprawling levels of a Sonic game would eat that alive.

I mean, that's pretty much how they tackled these games, though early on it was drawn out on graph paper before being worked into the game.

(I linked to time, but whole vid is worth a watch)

Outline of a sonic level. Anyone who thinks crap like this is good design needs to get their head checked.

Can’t say I’ve ever cared about Sonic games. In some areas it’s too fast making collecting difficult and the platforming less than fun.

I like the classic 2D Genesis Sonic games, and also Sonic CD and Sonic Mania but I will always go for the 2D Mario games as my most favorites. 2D Mario games are always fun for me.

Agreed. Most UK gamers generally favour Sonic, whereas most US gamers generally favour Mario. It's safe to say most users on this board are Americans, which is reflected in the poll results.

I feel the Mario favouritism among US gamers has more to do with nostalgia than anything, since most US gamers played Mario before Sonic. Whereas it's the reverse for most UK gamers, who played Sonic (or Alex Kidd) before Mario.

I remember being disappointed by Mario and finding it overrated even back in the early '90s. I played Sonic first, and then played Mario later. And that just made Mario feel like a downgrade in almost every way. The gameplay felt relatively more shallow and slow-paced, and the graphics and music looked and sounded dull. Playing Mario after Sonic really changes the way you view both games, making Sonic look and feel way more impressive than Mario.

I prefer Mario overall. It's not even a contest when it comes to the 3D games, but as for the 2D games, I don't mind Sonic but I just think Mario feels more satisfying overall imo. I tend to get a bit frustrated when I play the Sonic games.

@vl4d_l3nin: looks fantastic to me, so call the doc

As an American, I think it's more a case of that the winners write the history books, because Sonic was way more popular in my area. That, and unlike 90% of platformers, Sonic doesn't play like Mario, like at all, as it abides by arcade based principles which is too foreign a concept for most gamers. I always read things such as Sonic has bad enemy placement/level design and requires memorizing, but I've never memorized shit in the non-boosting games. Like a shump, I play through it once to get a feel, and then that's good enough for me to start naturally building on performance as opposed to doing it intentionally. Oh, and I know how to press down too, which is also something detractors seem incapable of grasping, lol.

no

It's amazin' how much can be added to a level, while adding nothing to the gameplay itself. A bunch of criss-crosses and loop-de-loops do nothing other than artificially lengthen the level.

I guess that's what ya get in a platformer that focuses on speed rather than platforming 🤷‍♀️

I voted Sonic out of personal preference but even 2D sonic has had its fair share of stinkers where as I couldn't say Mario has had any objectively bad games.

Sonic is overrated as shit. Should have died off with the 90s. I have zero idea what's keeping this franchise going but a bunch of furry weirdos.

Yeah, this is getting into stupid territory now.

Sega was huge in the US with the Genesis. Accounted for more than half of Genesis sales. Marketing for Sonic was insane, and the perception that Sonic made Mario look like old news was strong among younger gamers.

If we're gonna dump anecdotes here, I went from NES straight to Genesis, was completely sold on Sega and Sonic.

All in the past anyways, I don't judge games on nostalgia. I found plenty of my old favs to be mediocre or straight trash on revisits.

@Renegade_Fury Bro, that's a real load lol. I grew up in the arcades, most of my favorite games are either arcade games, or games that are built on arcade gaming principles. Can be that type of gamer and still have valid reasons to dislike aspects of Sonic.

"Press down" wut? 😂

I know SW has some real sloth gamers, but lets not pretend basic ass Sonic mechanics are lost on people here. Come on now.

-

Leaning on where people grew up, or the "yOu doN't gEt it" stuff makes for some weak arguments y'all.

Can definitely stick to the actual games and their merits rather than trying to drum up some lame defense.

@vl4d_l3nin: shots fired

Not even close bud... although Yoshi's Island is trash and I don't even think about that game when thinking of 2D Mario games...

@ConanTheStoner: Then let me ask you this: How many times do you replay (any) Sonic? B/C if it's one and done, and you maybe come back a few years later, I don't want to hear it. For me, the night Mania came out for example, I replayed it back to back in one sitting as it comes with the territory for properly judging and getting to the "real" fun. The same thing holds true with other Yuji Naka games in particular, like NiGHTS and Rodea, b/c while they have simple controls, as he puts it, "there's a world of difference between handing the controller to a novice as opposed to giving it to someone that knows what he or she is doing." - e.g the ring system - which allows any schmuck to win, but keeping ~200 rings and beating a zone in 90 seconds are very different

So the way I see it, Mario is much more approachable as you can get the most out of it in one playthrough, but Sonic requires at least two since it's more about performance and the thrill as opposed to finishing. It's also why I only enjoy replaying Mario levels like the Perfect Run and Champion's Road since they're more in line with the type of satisfaction I get out of Sonic, as all the other levels tend to lose their luster after a first go around. So yeah, to me, Sonic on gameplay makes it infinitely more fun to replay, and that's without getting into extra things like art, music, and characters.

And just to be clear here, I'm not calling Sonic hard, but I do believe its game design philosophy is lost on most people b/c they either don't get it, or they don't want to, since it isn't like Mario. I don't think there's anything controversial about saying that.

Yo I completely get this. Was just having this exact convo on Discord about Sonic and one n done types in general. Shit, you probably see me and Champ ranting about it all the time.

Probably one of my biggest pet pet peeves talking with gamers, those who play what is essentially the "tutorial run" and have no idea what the game actually offers.

Most of my favorite games fall strongly into that category. I like fighting games, beat em ups, platformers, etc. basically I love action based games where the player has crazy room to flex and improve.

So no, I'm definitely not that gamer.

Like with SOR4, the night I grabbed it, ran through it on normal, immediately jumped into Mania, then started tackling S-ranks and 1cc.

So yeah, naturally I'm approaching Sonic the same way.

I understand there is that satisfaction at the end of the tunnel. I think where we disagree, is the process of getting there. I don't find the road to "git gud" quite as satisfying as I do with other games. And believe me, it's not without trying. Even now I've reinstalled Mania Plus and am going at it again, as if it's some fomo on my end lol.

Yeah that's where I'm coming from with the fun in Mario being more readily apparent. Both Mario and Sonic have room for the player to get crazy good. Obviously Mario speedruns are a huge thing too.

It's the baseline Sonic experience that doesn't appeal the same. And I know you don't like the memorization "criticism", but I'm not even saying that like it's a bad thing. Speed running does involve memorization. And one of the core design principles behind Sonic was to be that kind of game. Similar to memorizing encounters in a beat em up, I don't consider it a flaw.

This isn't a "mad cuz bad" take. I can appreciate the higher level play in a game, whether I'm there or not. But I do feel the level design and enemy placement could be structured in such a way to be more satisfying from the get go, while still providing for the highest levels of play.

Could I be wrong? Sure. It's just hard to see why when so many games have accomplished exactly that.

Oh well yeah man, not even going there. A lot of times a game being hard is whatever.

Games can be plenty easy and still provide an insane skill ceiling. Like NG vs DMC. Skill floor is a good deal higher in NG. Any idiot can mash through DMC on normal. But that DMC skill ceiling is a skyscraper by comparison.

And sure, being on SW especially, I understand a lot of things like that are lost on people. Suppose I just took offence at being lumped in there, not everyone here, or everyone who shares these opinions, is that dense about it.

Love the 2D sonic games. That rush of keeping your momentum going is pretty sweet. Closest game that is similar in gameplay would be Mirror’s Edge. Sure you can take your time, explore, and punch baddies but avoiding conflict at full speed is what will bring people back for more. Whether you read the level or memorize it shouldn’t take away from the accomplishment, I see it like learning to play a piece of music. Doesn’t matter if you read the music or just know it.

Um... Is this a serious question?

2D Mario by a mile. There are other discussions that I think would be more interesting and competitive like,

2D vs 3D Mario

I’m a Sonic fanboy and I’m almost offended by this. 2D Mario saved video games.

@ConanTheStoner: Yeah, it's cool. I'm not trying to convince anyone that Sonic is better, or even like it; I only bat for its merits every now and then b/c it's such an easy punching bag of a series. It's also why I tend to avoid these topics, since they're just a regurgitation of the same shit-takes without any real discussion, so if I participate, I drop one or two posts and leave unless someone quotes me.

But anyway, gaming to me is very subjective, like any other form of entertainment, so there's little "facts" beyond things such as developer intentions, which is what I wanted to get across in that post. In regard to "gitting gud" for the classic games, like Mania, I'd say that it only takes like 3-4 playthroughs. I think with my first run I had under 10 lives, the second was 25ish, and the third was mid 40's. Typically now if I play it, a bad run would be like mid 50ish, and a good one would result in the low 60's.

Now for the boosting games such as Rush and Generations, those do take more of an investment. I probably played Modern Planet Wisp in Generations around a hundred times before I was inside the top 20 on the time trial leaderboads.

@Renegade_Fury:

For sure man. It's one of the older debates in gaming anyways, not like many minds are gonna be changed. People have had decades to form their preferences between the two. I like to re-evaluate from time to time, occasionally find I had a bad reading of a game/series. To a degree, feel that's where I'm at with Sonic. Maybe it's just no longer for me, but going at Mania again regardless.

Only got irked when the convo switched to regional nonsense, and then your follow up jabs on those posts. You didn't outright say scrub, but that's where it seemed to be heading haha.

But yeah, all good bro, I get where you're coming from.