Is Sucker Punch a top tier developer now? Better than Ubisoft at their own game?

@R4gn4r0k: messy isn’t my issue, I play Japanese action games, I like the chaos.

It’s an issue of depth. Take just the stance system. Only purpose it has is matching the stance with its opposing enemy that it beats. There is no real overlap of options, you aren’t switching between them because there is some synergy with the other stances, or because it gives you a different set of options in the moment. It’s just matching rock to scissors.

A lot of it is dumbing down the decision making of that type of game. It’s a very limited system once you start figuring it out.

@ConanTheStoner: ‘How are game design and development chops tied to how many platforms you release on?’

If only a small portion of gamers have played your game, how can you compete with a developer with a wider and more successful customer base?

Besides, this dumb thread is mostly just a playstation fanboy outlet anyway.

Even the biggest behemoth releases aren't played by a majority of gamers man. Either way, neither here nor there. It's like saying fast food chains make the best food because they're everywhere. Makes no sense right.

Seems like you're disputing vague publisher metrics rather than design and development talent.

And while OP didn't list specific criteria, it's obvious he wasn't talking sales and potential reach here.

I've only played a few hours, but the combat seems to be the best part of the game. You can go in and use different weapons and different styles. I guess I'm just a console pleb!

?? my favorite combat systems are from console games. The stances themselves have no interesting decision making. The lone decision is that it has a clear obvious hard counter to a specific enemy type. In contrast in Nioh entire moves are tied to specific stances, your attack speed is different, your dodge is different, your stamina use is different, and it ties into a stamina gauge that can be refilled on the fly by a more finesse player who can ki pulse n flux in a timely fashion stringing different stances together.

So before I have to explain this for someone stupid who will miss the point: no the combat didn't need to be a 1:1 to Nioh, but my complaint is that of there being little to no depth to the combat. I'm sure it comes out smelling like roses if your only combat fixes are things like Assassin's Creed or Batman, but once you get over a lot of the canned animations, its a limited ass system.

Poison charms are cute tho.

Not even close to being first tier or and IMO not quite second tier. It's third tier which is still really good games:

Tier 1 (god tier): Kojima Productions, Rockstar North, Nintendo EAD and Naughty Dog

Tier 2 (elite tier): Santa Monica Studios, From Software, Bethesda, CD Projekt Red, Rocksteady Studios, Bungie

Tier 3 (great tier): Sucker Punch, Insomniac, Infinity Ward, 2K Boston, Capcom, Epic Games, Namco Bandai etc.

@briguyb13: RDR2 is on a completely different level when considering polish, immersion, character development, casts, atmosphere, activities, etc. GoT is good.. but RDR2 is something else

Yeah, as long as you leave out gameplay and mission structure it's great.

Yea I guess if you're looking for depth, it's not that deep on a technical level. I still find it fun though. I like parrying and how you have to react quickly to the enemies' attacks. It feels realistic. I also like mixing it up and using throwing items and techniques I learned. I just learned this cool finisher that you can do. I also learned a technique where I can charge into someone and send them flying. All in all, I can't really compare this game to like a Souls game. It's just not that. It kinda reminds me of the PS2 days where it was just about fun action, nothing complicated lol.

GoT is plenty deep for normal gamers. Actual combat can't be simulated with freaking button presses. Elites can go lick battery acid.

We elite now.

@briguyb13: Yeah bro, nobody is asking for actual simulated combat. Just like every other time these discussions come up. Nobody is asking for a direct copy of DMC/NG/Bayo/Nioh/Souls, etc.

Basically nobody is asking for these strawman arguments.

Think the criticism is wrong? Refute it. Simply don't like it? Ignore it lol.

Responding with fallacy is never the way man.

My comments are no more fallacy than the people claiming the combat is shallow "just becuz".

You and champ always attack games that are not the ones you listed, constantly, but without sound descriptions and technical talk about how so. Just hate and conjecture. Like. Old. Goddamn. Records.

@briguyb13:

Yeah, no. Your strawmen are legit fallacious arguments. If you're unfamiliar with the fallacy, look it up.

List games I always attack plz. Funny enough, I don't even think Souls has great combat, it's just one of the strawmen that is always brought up.

And again, no. I'm usually in here typing novel posts, descript as can be. The OP of this thread can tell you that. Whether to criticize, praise, or simply describe a games mechanics and systems.

But that shit is largely lost on this forum save for a few users who will actually read and respond to something that isn't the equivalent of a meme gif in text form.

champ always attack games that are not the ones you listed, constantly, but without sound descriptions and technical talk about how so. Just hate and conjecture. Like. Old. Goddamn. Records.

I mean. He's literally talking about the mechanics and systems. And your response was literally a strawman and an insult lol.

Champ > This is what I find wrong with said system, and why.

You > Can't simulate real combat, go lick battery acid.

It's weird right, you've been on about how SW can do better. But this is part of the shit that sucks about SW.

Yeah man really like the part where all the games I tend to gas up are combat simulations of real life, and not you know gamey ass games. Gonna need you to try a better strawman.

Literally just described mechanics, and explained why one makes actual decisions in one and not the other. In fact I'm usually blamed for being able to write up a novel, usually with detail on why said mechanics work and others don't. Do not confuse me with ghost or your own posts.

Try again sport.

Initially the combat feel cool and looks great. But it is true that the way stances are used makes it that the only real challenge in a fight is matching with the correct type of enemy, which means very little pushback even on hard. You add tools to the mix it gets even easier. Then fights start to feel the same regardless of the composition of the mob.

It is a slight disappointment, was expecting something more curated in the combat side. To add insult to injury the boss fights could be a way to make some more curated combat but it's even worse as it forces you to a very restrictive set of movements and tools.

It's still satisfying how it sounds and animates. Rewarding even. But after that small endorphin bump I feel like I just did the same exact thing I've been doing for hours with little merit.

The production stuff is legit, they definitely like a lot of kurasawa movies.

I still think the combat could have been made more fun, like its not like the mechanics for it aren't there. But its more of a "the details" issue, namely being that stances should have had more unique characteristics to each other, as it is the further the game goes, the stance becomes

"this stance destroys shields, hit triangle"

"this stance destroys spears, hit triangle"

Defensive options are okay for what they need to be.

I've played until partway into Act II of the game so far in the Stone Stance... So yeah, no real need for delving deeper into the combat. It looked to be great before release, but the depth isn't there. Sure, you can change up to easily match the opposing style, but it isn't necessary and tbh isn't worth the bother.

The other issue comes from the AI. By-and-large, the AI attacks singularly, for the most part. Yeah, attacks can coincide, but it really does take that 1-by-1 route.

@phbz: I agree, GoT combat is far from perfect and easily cheesed. You can simply back up and turbo tap the dodge button and never get hit in a phone booth full of mobs. Enemies are cheap and take big strong moves constantly. The stances are only good for breaking fronts.

Having said that, it's still fun to play and secondary to the star of the show: the world and its beauty.

Love when a shit poster can’t actually talk mechanics, but then goes Hur durr “but no sound or technical reasons”.