Is the next Xbox Microsofts last chance?

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"]If only people who post on this forum had any idea what they are talking about. MS blew Sony this gen. MS gained market share (large %) and became very profitable Sony lost market share (large %) and struggled with profitability And you are saying that MS is the one who is on their last straw? Logic isn't your strong suit huh?mztazmz

Uh, FYI between the original Xbox and the 360, MS's game division is still several billion in the red. The original xbox put them at almost 5 billion in the red, the 360 added another 3 billion to that for a total of 8. In the last 2 years, the 360 has become profitable on a quarterly basis, but they are still several billion behind.

Despie taking a loss with PS3 at first, Sony's game division is around 2 billion in the black. And the PS3 became profitable about a year ago.

And the PS3 is closing in on the 360 userbase and most analysts believe it will pass it before this gen is over. And just like PS2, the PS3 is expected to stay on the market much longer than 360.

So at this point in time, the PS brand is billions of dollars ahead of xbox and PS3 is on a roll to surpass 360's user base.

ALways good to do some research before posting:)

Wow. The misinformation on these forums continue yet you tell people to do research before posting. Should follow your own advice.

Last Chance for Microsoft???

More like Sony's Last Chance.

Nintendo and Microsoft made loads of Money this gen, Sony's been playing Catch up this whole time.

Sour grapes, men. Sour grapes with a healthy dose of denial. By the time the PS4 is released, the PS3 will have outsold the 360. In fact, with Uncharted, Resistance etc, that'll probably happen this year. Its also quite funny that console wars change to 'profit wars' (Even though in the long run, the PS3 will make more profit as well).

Also it seems, Microsoft didn't learn their lesson with tapping out early and rushing out another attempt.

roadkill88

Didn't pay attention in economics class huh?

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="roadkill88"]

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation.

roadkill88

They outdid the PlayStation this gen.. believe it or not, the reason these companies release consoles is to make money.

By the time the PS4 is released the PS3 will have outsold the 360. So, another failure.

Last chance for what? To slap Sony?

In the real world outside system wars, the 360 is popular, profitable and successful. Where as the PS3 has been nothing but a problem for Sony in one way or another thus far to the point where i'd worry more about Playstations future.

Sony have lost so much money because of it. The Cell, Blu Ray, over expensive hardware, long development times, lack of an advertising budget, the list goes on and on.

Trust me, if MS force a next gen (Sony won't want a delay this time), the PS3 in terms of business, would have been a complete waste, just a mess. All because Sony were too arrogant to expect a fight from MS. They lost huge market share, a TON of PS exclusives went multiplat, i'm actually suprised PS execs have kept their jobs.

In fact MS have propped up the western games development scene and put Japan in second place because they wouldn't give them the time of day.

The Xbox brand future is pretty secure tbh.

The 360 was a massive success for Microsoft, so I doubt they're even on their "Last Chance." For me personally, I will be hesitant with the next Miccrosoft console because their marketting and direction pulled a complete 180 from where it was at the start of the gen.

What everyone seems to lose sight of is that neither Sony or Microsoft lost this gen. They both made money in the end. If anyone lost it was us the consumer. Having to pay $600 dollars for a console or have to pay $550 dollars for a complete Xbox was outragous. ( Yes to piece together the hard drive, wireless controllers, wireless wifi, cooling unit, and no HDMI and you still had to shell out the same.)

The fact remains that while these companies make money we continue to let them lower our standards. If I sold lawn mowers and my mowers had a failure rate equal to the Xbox on launch I would be in jail right now. And don't get me started on all the titles from developers that got released when they clearly weren't ready. (MVC3 and it's lackluster roster is the latest that comes to mind.)

To answer your question of course this isn't Microsoft's last chance, they're still making Zune's right? Besides console sales aren't the big factor in the end, it's the games that bring in the money. Sony and Microsoft lost money for every unit sold in the beginning. Between this and hardware failures I'd be surprised if Sony or Micorosoft had made any real profit off their consoles. ( Seriously add it all up, Microsoft gaming division had racked up 5 billion dollars in the red by 2007, that doesn't count the money losses from the orginal XBOX). Now look at some games and their sales. Of course Microsoft and Sony don't see all the money but the specifics don't matter, just look at the numbers.

Modern Warfare 2- $1,000,000,000+ (Split about 60-40 with Sony)

Black Ops- $1,000,000,000+ ( Again split 60-40 with Sony)

Halo 3 - $486,000,000

Gears of War 2 $420,000,000

Little Big Planet - $270,000,000

MGS4 - $300,000,000

GT 5 - $382,000,000

And that is that. Oh and since I stumbled into console sales I'll add this. Please stop bringing up the WII. It's a fine little system and yes it sold a lot of units. But it's average unit price is about $180, compared to Sony's $400 and Microsofts $300. That's like bringing up that 23,360,000,000 Tootsie Rolls are sold a year.

In the real world outside system wars, the 360 is popular, profitable and successful. Where as the PS3 has been nothing but a problem for Sony in one way or another thus far to the point where i'd worry more about Playstations future.

Sony have lost so much money because of it. The Cell, Blu Ray, over expensive hardware, long development times, lack of an advertising budget, the list goes on and on.

Trust me, if MS force a next gen (Sony won't want a delay this time), the PS3 in terms of business, would have been a complete waste, just a mess. All because Sony were too arrogant to expect a fight from MS. They lost huge market share, a TON of PS exclusives went multiplat, i'm actually suprised PS execs have kept their jobs.

In fact MS have propped up the western games development scene and put Japan in second place because they wouldn't give them the time of day.

The Xbox brand future is pretty secure tbh.

Darth_DuMas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

[QUOTE="Darth_DuMas"]

In the real world outside system wars, the 360 is popular, profitable and successful. Where as the PS3 has been nothing but a problem for Sony in one way or another thus far to the point where i'd worry more about Playstations future.

Sony have lost so much money because of it. The Cell, Blu Ray, over expensive hardware, long development times, lack of an advertising budget, the list goes on and on.

Trust me, if MS force a next gen (Sony won't want a delay this time), the PS3 in terms of business, would have been a complete waste, just a mess. All because Sony were too arrogant to expect a fight from MS. They lost huge market share, a TON of PS exclusives went multiplat, i'm actually suprised PS execs have kept their jobs.

In fact MS have propped up the western games development scene and put Japan in second place because they wouldn't give them the time of day.

The Xbox brand future is pretty secure tbh.

Bahamutmega

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

That's not really relevant to what I said.

While it wasn't directly planned, it was rushed out specifically to capture early market share. Believe it or not, if the 360 and PS3 released in the same month, the PS3 would have out sold the 360 by a huge number, it would have been a bloodbath. The games industry would likely look very different than it does today too.

Sony had all the public support and developer support. Head to head from the off, 360 didn't have a chance, MS knew in this virtual monopoly Sony had with the PS one and two, it would be so much harder later on. I can't remember where, but I read in an interview, they were saying, they just had to release first and have a gap.

It wasn't about early sales, it was more about dev support and market share. They had an affordable product that was gaining momentum, while, Sony had this product that was struggling out of the gate, that was more expensive, difficult to develop for that required extra dev times and costs.

But what happened in the past happened. But it is MS that are in the best position right now to determine when it's good to launch a new console, where as Sony are not, because of their loses so far, it makes more sense to keep the PS3 going as long as humanly possible. to make it a worthwhile gen.

PS2 sales aside, that doesn't take away from the failures and successes of the current gen platforms.

I see your point and have to agree with it. The only thing I questions is how much of a master plan was it?

Microsoft got lucky that the %30 failure rate of it's consoles didn't ruin it's reputation. And while the original price of an Xbox was $280, you'd have to spend about $300 for a wireless adapter, wireless controllers, a cooling fan, a hard drive, and still no HDMI.

In the end I have to agree ,whether by luck or by planned measures, Microsoft embedded itself in the market with it's early release of the 360. Dev times and costs were another bonus for the 360. But I'd like to point out what I posted earlier when I stated that console sales don't bring in the money, game sales do. Both Sony and Microsoft lost money for every console sold years after they were released.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383/microsoft-taking-126-hit-per-xbox-360

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/698657/sony-losing-money-on-each-ps3-slim-sold/

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"]If only people who post on this forum had any idea what they are talking about. MS blew Sony this gen. MS gained market share (large %) and became very profitable Sony lost market share (large %) and struggled with profitability And you are saying that MS is the one who is on their last straw? Logic isn't your strong suit huh?mztazmz

Uh, FYI between the original Xbox and the 360, MS's game division is still several billion in the red. The original xbox put them at almost 5 billion in the red, the 360 added another 3 billion to that for a total of 8. In the last 2 years, the 360 has become profitable on a quarterly basis, but they are still several billion behind.

Despie taking a loss with PS3 at first, Sony's game division is around 2 billion in the black. And the PS3 became profitable about a year ago.

And the PS3 is closing in on the 360 userbase and most analysts believe it will pass it before this gen is over. And just like PS2, the PS3 is expected to stay on the market much longer than 360.

So at this point in time, the PS brand is billions of dollars ahead of xbox and PS3 is on a roll to surpass 360's user base.

ALways good to do some research before posting:)

Sony lost all the money they made on ps2 with Ps3. Don't try to revise history here.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="roadkill88"]

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation.

roadkill88

They outdid the PlayStation this gen.. believe it or not, the reason these companies release consoles is to make money.

By the time the PS4 is released the PS3 will have outsold the 360. So, another failure.

[QUOTE="mztazmz"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"]If only people who post on this forum had any idea what they are talking about. MS blew Sony this gen. MS gained market share (large %) and became very profitable Sony lost market share (large %) and struggled with profitability And you are saying that MS is the one who is on their last straw? Logic isn't your strong suit huh?jimmypsn

Uh, FYI between the original Xbox and the 360, MS's game division is still several billion in the red. The original xbox put them at almost 5 billion in the red, the 360 added another 3 billion to that for a total of 8. In the last 2 years, the 360 has become profitable on a quarterly basis, but they are still several billion behind.

Despie taking a loss with PS3 at first, Sony's game division is around 2 billion in the black. And the PS3 became profitable about a year ago.

And the PS3 is closing in on the 360 userbase and most analysts believe it will pass it before this gen is over. And just like PS2, the PS3 is expected to stay on the market much longer than 360.

So at this point in time, the PS brand is billions of dollars ahead of xbox and PS3 is on a roll to surpass 360's user base.

ALways good to do some research before posting:)

Sony lost all the money they made on ps2 with Ps3. Don't try to revise history here.

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation. So is the 720 (If thats what its called) Microsofts last chance?

roadkill88

[QUOTE="roadkill88"]

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation. So is the 720 (If thats what its called) Microsofts last chance?

KC_Hokie

That's a good point! Which one is more profitable? But I doubt anyone will know until it's all said and done. I'll do a quick break down as to why.

Xbox 360 (Microsoft) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006: 5.0 Million

FY07 / July 1, 2006 - June 30, 2007: 6.6 Million

FY08 / July 1, 2007 - June 30, 2008: 8.7 Million

FY09 / July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009: 11.2 Million

FY10 / July 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 8.8 Million

Now every XBOX sold up to 2009 is a loss of about $125 per console. I'm sure as time went on this loss went down, but it teeters back and forth with the introduction of new hardware and price cuts to the console and recalls (RROD anyone?). In fairness I'll average $100 per console from 05 to the 08 year(Look up Kinect cost for MS). So with hardware alone Microsoft has generated -$2,030,000,000 profit. This is just with hardware.

PlayStation 3 (Sony) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / April 1, 2006 - March 31, 2007: 3.61 Million

FY07 / April 1, 2007 - March 31, 2008: 9.24 Million

FY08 / April 1, 2008 - March 31, 2009: 10.1 Million

FY09 / April 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 13.0 Million

The PS3 when released cost Sony a whopping $250 per console sold. This lasted until Jan 08 when the PS3 cost around $400 to make. This was because Sony removed a lot of hardware from the unit. As of Jan 09 the unit costs $250 per unit to make, again slimming down on the hardware and releasing the slim model. Tallying this up Sony generated $252,500,000 profit. ( Shipping costs would cut this figure in half)

What's important to note is this: Sony made a little money because the PS3 was out later and didn't sell a lot of units. ALso the system was continuously cut down hardware wise. Microsoft did the opposite with the hardware, first releasing the hard drive less hdmi less consoles upgrading them later keeping manufacturing costs up.

While this all may look pretty and explanatory there is still a huge group of unknown factors which haven't been released by the respective companies. These factors could turn the numbers either way easily. Also take note that MS game division has been posting hefty profits since 08, due to strong software sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383/microsoft-taking-126-hit-per-xbox-360

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-military-army,news-5786.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3

http://www.shacknews.com/article/63785/worldwide-console-sales-numbers-revealed

The 360 is killing the PS3 in the US and its not slowing down. Its still outselling the PS3 and Wii every month. The US isnt the world but it is the largest game market on Earth. Microsoft succeded this generation, they took Sony's US market from them. Its not like it was hard after the horrible joke of a launch of the PS3. imagineif RROD never happened, Sony would easily be down another 5 million in the US. I dont think Sony can catch up in the US, not with Kinect being released. It may win the other countries and possibly the world numbers, not by much, but the 360 did its job. I think next gen's goal will be to take the European market from Sony, if it can beat Sony in the US and EU next gen Sony will be really hurt and drop into last place worldwide. I know a lot of you think Sony is too big to have a massive shift in the market like this but if they stay cocky with the PS4 and release a replica of a PS3 (a failure if you look at the PS history) they will leave an opening for MS to move in. All MS has to do is stay competitive on pricing and actually give EU the features the US has for XBL. I also think the US market is more for Xbox now days. They'll have to work much harder next gen to try and get some ground back, I doubt it will happen.

That's a good point! Which one is more profitable? But I doubt anyone will know until it's all said and done. I'll do a quick break down as to why.

Xbox 360 (Microsoft) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006: 5.0 Million

FY07 / July 1, 2006 - June 30, 2007: 6.6 Million

FY08 / July 1, 2007 - June 30, 2008: 8.7 Million

FY09 / July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009: 11.2 Million

FY10 / July 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 8.8 Million

Now every XBOX sold up to 2009 is a loss of about $125 per console. I'm sure as time went on this loss went down, but it teeters back and forth with the introduction of new hardware and price cuts to the console and recalls (RROD anyone?). In fairness I'll average $100 per console from 05 to the 08 year(Look up Kinect cost for MS). So with hardware alone Microsoft has generated -$2,030,000,000 profit. This is just with hardware.

PlayStation 3 (Sony) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / April 1, 2006 - March 31, 2007: 3.61 Million

FY07 / April 1, 2007 - March 31, 2008: 9.24 Million

FY08 / April 1, 2008 - March 31, 2009: 10.1 Million

FY09 / April 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 13.0 Million

The PS3 when released cost Sony a whopping $250 per console sold. This lasted until Jan 08 when the PS3 cost around $400 to make. This was because Sony removed a lot of hardware from the unit. As of Jan 09 the unit costs $250 per unit to make, again slimming down on the hardware and releasing the slim model. Tallying this up Sony generated $252,500,000 profit. ( Shipping costs would cut this figure in half)

What's important to note is this: Sony made a little money because the PS3 was out later and didn't sell a lot of units. ALso the system was continuously cut down hardware wise. Microsoft did the opposite with the hardware, first releasing the hard drive less hdmi less consoles upgrading them later keeping manufacturing costs up.

While this all may look pretty and explanatory there is still a huge group of unknown factors which haven't been released by the respective companies. These factors could turn the numbers either way easily. Also take note that MS game division has been posting hefty profits since 08, due to strong software sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383/microsoft-taking-126-hit-per-xbox-360

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-military-army,news-5786.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3

http://www.shacknews.com/article/63785/worldwide-console-sales-numbers-revealedBahamutmega

My question is, how much was MSFT making off of consoles from 08-until? You fail to account for ANY profit's MSFT has made on their consoles. I also have questions about the $100 loss per console until '09.

As a matter-of-fact I found this article - Dated 11/20/2006 - which gives a complete tear down cost of the 360 and shows that they were breaking even or even turning a small profit as far back as then.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html

"icrosoft Corp., the world's leading maker of software, is earning money selling the Xbox 360 hardware, according to updated teardown analysis from research firm iSuppli. The information means that the software giant has managed to lower the price of its latest game console by nearly 40% in one year. According to iSuppli's most recent analysis, the premium version of the Xbox 360 game machine equipped with hard disk drive has a manufacturing and materials total of $323.30, based on an updated estimate using costs in the fourth quarter of 2006. This total is $75.70 less than the $399 suggested retail price of the Xbox 360. Even though it is obvious that Microsoft still has to subtract freight, toll, retail partner's profit and other possible charges, it is highly likely that Microsoft has either managed to reduce its loss to minimal, or is making a tiny profit selling the $399 flavour of the Xbox 360."

This was well before even the major Chipset upgrades Microsoft made. Here's an article that by Aug--07' The Falcon Chipset had reduced cpu costs by %50. And this isn't even counting all the other cost cuts they were able to make in a years time.

http://kotaku.com/305370/xbox-360-falcon-chips-have-landed

So if they were breaking even in '06 and reduced production costs on key components by 50% in 2007, I think it's safe to say that MSFT was EASILY turning a profit in 2007. I think we can both agree that your "estimated losses" Microsoft had on hardware is grossly wrong.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="roadkill88"]

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation.

roadkill88

They outdid the PlayStation this gen.. believe it or not, the reason these companies release consoles is to make money.

By the time the PS4 is released the PS3 will have outsold the 360. So, another failure.

No there goal isn't to out sell the others, yes they would like to, but they want to make money and they did.

It depends, it seems MS focus is on the 360 is the Kinect and not everyone plays Kinect so they need to bring the hardcore stuff at E3. I saw some rumor about a 3D 360, so maybe that's the 720 that everyone is talking about though IMO 3D is nothing but a gimmick.

[QUOTE="mztazmz"]

[QUOTE="seabiscuit8686"]If only people who post on this forum had any idea what they are talking about. MS blew Sony this gen. MS gained market share (large %) and became very profitable Sony lost market share (large %) and struggled with profitability And you are saying that MS is the one who is on their last straw? Logic isn't your strong suit huh?jimmypsn

Uh, FYI between the original Xbox and the 360, MS's game division is still several billion in the red. The original xbox put them at almost 5 billion in the red, the 360 added another 3 billion to that for a total of 8. In the last 2 years, the 360 has become profitable on a quarterly basis, but they are still several billion behind.

Despie taking a loss with PS3 at first, Sony's game division is around 2 billion in the black. And the PS3 became profitable about a year ago.

And the PS3 is closing in on the 360 userbase and most analysts believe it will pass it before this gen is over. And just like PS2, the PS3 is expected to stay on the market much longer than 360.

So at this point in time, the PS brand is billions of dollars ahead of xbox and PS3 is on a roll to surpass 360's user base.

ALways good to do some research before posting:)

Sony lost all the money they made on ps2 with Ps3. Don't try to revise history here.

MS's gaming division is still billions of dollars in the red, look it up.

[QUOTE="roadkill88"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

They outdid the PlayStation this gen.. believe it or not, the reason these companies release consoles is to make money.

Inconsistancy

By the time the PS4 is released the PS3 will have outsold the 360. So, another failure.

But who made more profit from their console I wonder, just 'cause they sell more, doesn't mean they made more. Also, who cares? MS certainly doesn't, they care more about their money, and they're making that regardless of the consoles, which are just a bit of profit and advertisement for them anyway.

I highly doubt the chief executives are sitting 'round a table saying "WE HAVE TO BEAT SONY THIS GEN" I'm sure it's more like "Second Quarter profits?, excellent."

And thats why Xbox has no 1st party games this year

And thats why Xbox has no 1st party games this year

yonnex

It does.

kinect cool story

kinect cool story

yonnex

So you're saying Kinect games cost nothing to develop?

Are you kidding me? Do you pay attention to the industry at all? MS did extremly well this generation, they sold hundreds of thousands of consoles,made alot of profit, and the 360 is the most popular console in American (besides the Wii).

MS will drop the 360 like a hot potato like they did with the first xbox

[QUOTE="yonnex"]

kinect cool story

waltefmoney

So you're saying Kinect games cost nothing to develop?

No im sure they do but i dont care about the money side of it. I care about having fun gaming like we all should! And im sure you wouldnt want to be jumping up and around like crazy after a long day at work or school? Am i right?

But dont worry about!! MS will be making money! you wont get any of it but they will make it!!

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="roadkill88"]

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation. So is the 720 (If thats what its called) Microsofts last chance?

Bahamutmega

That's a good point! Which one is more profitable? But I doubt anyone will know until it's all said and done. I'll do a quick break down as to why.

Xbox 360 (Microsoft) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006: 5.0 Million

FY07 / July 1, 2006 - June 30, 2007: 6.6 Million

FY08 / July 1, 2007 - June 30, 2008: 8.7 Million

FY09 / July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009: 11.2 Million

FY10 / July 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 8.8 Million

Now every XBOX sold up to 2009 is a loss of about $125 per console. I'm sure as time went on this loss went down, but it teeters back and forth with the introduction of new hardware and price cuts to the console and recalls (RROD anyone?). In fairness I'll average $100 per console from 05 to the 08 year(Look up Kinect cost for MS). So with hardware alone Microsoft has generated -$2,030,000,000 profit. This is just with hardware.

PlayStation 3 (Sony) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / April 1, 2006 - March 31, 2007: 3.61 Million

FY07 / April 1, 2007 - March 31, 2008: 9.24 Million

FY08 / April 1, 2008 - March 31, 2009: 10.1 Million

FY09 / April 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 13.0 Million

The PS3 when released cost Sony a whopping $250 per console sold. This lasted until Jan 08 when the PS3 cost around $400 to make. This was because Sony removed a lot of hardware from the unit. As of Jan 09 the unit costs $250 per unit to make, again slimming down on the hardware and releasing the slim model. Tallying this up Sony generated $252,500,000 profit. ( Shipping costs would cut this figure in half)

What's important to note is this: Sony made a little money because the PS3 was out later and didn't sell a lot of units. ALso the system was continuously cut down hardware wise. Microsoft did the opposite with the hardware, first releasing the hard drive less hdmi less consoles upgrading them later keeping manufacturing costs up.

While this all may look pretty and explanatory there is still a huge group of unknown factors which haven't been released by the respective companies. These factors could turn the numbers either way easily. Also take note that MS game division has been posting hefty profits since 08, due to strong software sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383/microsoft-taking-126-hit-per-xbox-360

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-military-army,news-5786.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3

http://www.shacknews.com/article/63785/worldwide-console-sales-numbers-revealed

No im sure they do but i dont care about the money side of it. I care about having fun gaming like we all should! And im sure you wouldnt want to be jumping up and around like crazy after a long day at work or school? Am i right?

yonnex

Nope, that's why I don't have Kinect.

But dont worry about!! MS will be making money! you wont get any of it but they will make it!!yonnex

Cool DC.

MS will drop the 360 like a hot potato like they did with the first xbox

yonnex

The 360 is killing the PS3 in the US and its not slowing down. Its still outselling the PS3 and Wii every month. The US isnt the world but it is the largest game market on Earth. Microsoft succeded this generation, they took Sony's US market from them. Its not like it was hard after the horrible joke of a launch of the PS3. imagineif RROD never happened, Sony would easily be down another 5 million in the US. I dont think Sony can catch up in the US, not with Kinect being released. It may win the other countries and possibly the world numbers, not by much, but the 360 did its job. I think next gen's goal will be to take the European market from Sony, if it can beat Sony in the US and EU next gen Sony will be really hurt and drop into last place worldwide. I know a lot of you think Sony is too big to have a massive shift in the market like this but if they stay cocky with the PS4 and release a replica of a PS3 (a failure if you look at the PS history) they will leave an opening for MS to move in. All MS has to do is stay competitive on pricing and actually give EU the features the US has for XBL. I also think the US market is more for Xbox now days. They'll have to work much harder next gen to try and get some ground back, I doubt it will happen.

mynamesdenvrmax

[QUOTE="Bahamutmega"]

That's a good point! Which one is more profitable? But I doubt anyone will know until it's all said and done. I'll do a quick break down as to why.

Xbox 360 (Microsoft) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006: 5.0 Million

FY07 / July 1, 2006 - June 30, 2007: 6.6 Million

FY08 / July 1, 2007 - June 30, 2008: 8.7 Million

FY09 / July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009: 11.2 Million

FY10 / July 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 8.8 Million

Now every XBOX sold up to 2009 is a loss of about $125 per console. I'm sure as time went on this loss went down, but it teeters back and forth with the introduction of new hardware and price cuts to the console and recalls (RROD anyone?). In fairness I'll average $100 per console from 05 to the 08 year(Look up Kinect cost for MS). So with hardware alone Microsoft has generated -$2,030,000,000 profit. This is just with hardware.

PlayStation 3 (Sony) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / April 1, 2006 - March 31, 2007: 3.61 Million

FY07 / April 1, 2007 - March 31, 2008: 9.24 Million

FY08 / April 1, 2008 - March 31, 2009: 10.1 Million

FY09 / April 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 13.0 Million

The PS3 when released cost Sony a whopping $250 per console sold. This lasted until Jan 08 when the PS3 cost around $400 to make. This was because Sony removed a lot of hardware from the unit. As of Jan 09 the unit costs $250 per unit to make, again slimming down on the hardware and releasing the slim model. Tallying this up Sony generated $252,500,000 profit. ( Shipping costs would cut this figure in half)

What's important to note is this: Sony made a little money because the PS3 was out later and didn't sell a lot of units. ALso the system was continuously cut down hardware wise. Microsoft did the opposite with the hardware, first releasing the hard drive less hdmi less consoles upgrading them later keeping manufacturing costs up.

While this all may look pretty and explanatory there is still a huge group of unknown factors which haven't been released by the respective companies. These factors could turn the numbers either way easily. Also take note that MS game division has been posting hefty profits since 08, due to strong software sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383/microsoft-taking-126-hit-per-xbox-360

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-military-army,news-5786.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3

http://www.shacknews.com/article/63785/worldwide-console-sales-numbers-revealedmythrol

My question is, how much was MSFT making off of consoles from 08-until? You fail to account for ANY profit's MSFT has made on their consoles. I also have questions about the $100 loss per console until '09.

As a matter-of-fact I found this article - Dated 11/20/2006 - which gives a complete tear down cost of the 360 and shows that they were breaking even or even turning a small profit as far back as then.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20061120132150.html

"icrosoft Corp., the world's leading maker of software, is earning money selling the Xbox 360 hardware, according to updated teardown analysis from research firm iSuppli. The information means that the software giant has managed to lower the price of its latest game console by nearly 40% in one year. According to iSuppli's most recent analysis, the premium version of the Xbox 360 game machine equipped with hard disk drive has a manufacturing and materials total of $323.30, based on an updated estimate using costs in the fourth quarter of 2006. This total is $75.70 less than the $399 suggested retail price of the Xbox 360. Even though it is obvious that Microsoft still has to subtract freight, toll, retail partner's profit and other possible charges, it is highly likely that Microsoft has either managed to reduce its loss to minimal, or is making a tiny profit selling the $399 flavour of the Xbox 360."

This was well before even the major Chipset upgrades Microsoft made. Here's an article that by Aug--07' The Falcon Chipset had reduced cpu costs by %50. And this isn't even counting all the other cost cuts they were able to make in a years time.

http://kotaku.com/305370/xbox-360-falcon-chips-have-landed

So if they were breaking even in '06 and reduced production costs on key components by 50% in 2007, I think it's safe to say that MSFT was EASILY turning a profit in 2007. I think we can both agree that your "estimated losses" Microsoft had on hardware is grossly wrong.

Since the PS3 and 360 are now neck and neck at a point where the PS3 has fuel/exclusives left and the 360 does not, it means this is the second time MS has failed to outdo the Playstation. So is the 720 (If thats what its called) Microsofts last chance?

roadkill88

and if you're going to say the xbox failed compared to the PS3 due to console sale numbers then you'd have to say the PS3 failed compared to the WII.

[QUOTE="Bahamutmega"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Last chance? You do realize the Xbox 360 has been way more profitable than the PS3?delta3074

That's a good point! Which one is more profitable? But I doubt anyone will know until it's all said and done. I'll do a quick break down as to why.

Xbox 360 (Microsoft) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / July 1, 2005 - June 30, 2006: 5.0 Million

FY07 / July 1, 2006 - June 30, 2007: 6.6 Million

FY08 / July 1, 2007 - June 30, 2008: 8.7 Million

FY09 / July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009: 11.2 Million

FY10 / July 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 8.8 Million

Now every XBOX sold up to 2009 is a loss of about $125 per console. I'm sure as time went on this loss went down, but it teeters back and forth with the introduction of new hardware and price cuts to the console and recalls (RROD anyone?). In fairness I'll average $100 per console from 05 to the 08 year(Look up Kinect cost for MS). So with hardware alone Microsoft has generated -$2,030,000,000 profit. This is just with hardware.

PlayStation 3 (Sony) Hardware Sales by year

FY06 / April 1, 2006 - March 31, 2007: 3.61 Million

FY07 / April 1, 2007 - March 31, 2008: 9.24 Million

FY08 / April 1, 2008 - March 31, 2009: 10.1 Million

FY09 / April 1, 2009 - March 31, 2010: 13.0 Million

The PS3 when released cost Sony a whopping $250 per console sold. This lasted until Jan 08 when the PS3 cost around $400 to make. This was because Sony removed a lot of hardware from the unit. As of Jan 09 the unit costs $250 per unit to make, again slimming down on the hardware and releasing the slim model. Tallying this up Sony generated $252,500,000 profit. ( Shipping costs would cut this figure in half)

What's important to note is this: Sony made a little money because the PS3 was out later and didn't sell a lot of units. ALso the system was continuously cut down hardware wise. Microsoft did the opposite with the hardware, first releasing the hard drive less hdmi less consoles upgrading them later keeping manufacturing costs up.

While this all may look pretty and explanatory there is still a huge group of unknown factors which haven't been released by the respective companies. These factors could turn the numbers either way easily. Also take note that MS game division has been posting hefty profits since 08, due to strong software sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6140383/microsoft-taking-126-hit-per-xbox-360

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/microsoft-xbox-360-military-army,news-5786.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps3

http://www.shacknews.com/article/63785/worldwide-console-sales-numbers-revealed

That's not the way you spell PlayStation & Sony but I knew what you mean and yes, it may be Sony's last chance if the PS4 performs next gen the way the PS3 did this gen. :P

MS will drop the 360 like a hot potato like they did with the first xbox

yonnex

The PS3 isn't going to out-sell the 360. We've gone over this time and time again.Ninja-Hippo