Is witcher 3 responsible for RPG elements oversaturation in most games?

And you relate this design with The Witcher 3 because....?

Geralt of rivendale barely walk. barely climb a ladder.

plus game is feel like more design to play with controller.

its console game first. PC second.

I don't think you've been around very long to claim such a thing.

I'm all for quality open-world and RPG elements, it made the recent Assassin's Creed games more enjoyable to me than the previous ones.

If Witcher 3 had any influence, I would argue it's a positive one.

The **** meme is this, plenty of PC games are gutter trash boyo. There is a reason the PC brigade are the fakest brand of elitists ever. Bunch of twerps.

objectively wrong.

all good franchise came from PC

Deus Ex, Max Payne, Doom, Half life, STALKER. call came from PC.

If you think there are no such things as bad PC games, you're on crack.

There is plenty of.

PUBG, fortnite, DOTA, CSGO, world of warcraft, and other shitty popular MMO.

but hardcore FPS are not.

There is nothing hard core FPS about Half Life. You have literal unskippable cutscenes, but it's not really a cutscene its "gameplay" to sit there and listen to some goon run his mouth. On every playthrough.

The 2nd game is literally just a glorified tech demo at time for its physics engine, absolute bore fest of a campaign.

Half life 1 was my first ever FPS game and it blew me away although I played early FPS like Quake and Doom much later on but it was Half life that actually perfected FPS genre.

the pacing, the level design, telling excellent story without even interrupting is an art.

in 1998 Half life was ahead of its time when best console game MGS1 you kill enemy and corpes disappeared. back than most console games had bad camera thats why early 3D console games sucked.

Holy hell reading the second page of this thread is truly amazing as its almost a competition as to who can post the dumbest things possible.

@R4gn4r0k said:

@ghosts4ever said:

I'm beginning to see why you hate so many games.

Your PC is total crap.

That's at a clean 23 fps, too.

was thinking this hahah

23 frames with potato settings.

@R4gn4r0k said:

@ghosts4ever said:

I'm beginning to see why you hate so many games.

Your PC is total crap.

I would say the game that had great success with implementing RPG elements was Modern Warfare. I think since then that's when it really started. And F2P and mobile games contributed to that as well. Adding any level of grind and experience points to get people to stay in the game longer.

@thehig1 said:

was thinking this hahah

23 frames with potato settings.

@R4gn4r0k said:

@ghosts4ever said:

I'm beginning to see why you hate so many games.

Your PC is total crap.

That looks like a PS2 game.

I agree Modern Warfare was largely responsible for popularizing RPG elements in FPS games. But not sure about action games in general, since RPG elements were already being used in hack & slash games before that, since Capcom's Onimusha and Devil May Cry.

I think the games which did the most to popularize RPG elements in online gaming are MMOs. In MMOs, more grind equals more money. The amount of money being made by early successful MMOs, like Lineage, FFXI, Maple Story, and especially WOW, must've convinced publishers of non-RPG titles to implement grindy RPG elements into their online modes, with the use of grinding as a means to generate more money.

Yeah, was talking about Eternal with Champ a couple weeks back and we got on this subject about action games and their upgrades.

tl;dr they suck. (should mention, his angle was a bit different in that they stunt genre/series growth in design, which I can also agree with.)

It annoys me in the sense that a good action game doesn't need upgrades for a genre fan to feel a sense of progression. It's your own skills as a player that are progressing, the game doesn't need to drip feed you that feeling through unlocks. Imagine if fighting games locked specials, combos, mobility options, meter increases, etc. behind a checklist of in game achievements, would be garbage. That's kinda how I see it with a good action game though.

I mean, I do get it. These games pretty much target two different audiences. You have the one n done types, then you have the ones who see that first playthrough as nothing more than an intro/tutorial. I suppose the devs just think the one n done crowd need that drip feed to keep them engaged. But honestly, just not sure if that's true. I think the gameplay itself is engaging enough, and progressively introducing new enemies and tougher encounters is what keeps things fresh.

Regardless, I'd rather the dev just give me all the tools from the start and let me have at it. The way these games are setup now, I feel like I have to play through the game just earn permission to play the real game lol. Be it Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, Doom, etc.

Though I'm at least grateful that these games haven't gone full stupid with it. Unlocking meter upgrades, weapons, commands, etc. sucks. Unlocking mobility options is next level stupid, especially in a shooter. But the real dumb shit is when an action game ties things like how hard/fast/accurate you hit to a stat. Glad we're not there (yet).

Sheeit, sorry for the tangent bro. Just something that's been annoying me about action games for a while.

That’s a negative.

Historical perspective:

Now that I think about it, RPG elements were being used in melee action games even before Onimusha and DMC. A year before them, there was Squaresoft's The Bouncer, which was essentially Final Fight meets Final Fantasy. And a few years before that, there was the hack & slash brawler Guardian Heroes for the Sega Saturn. And even before that, there were Capcom's own D&D arcade games, which blended hack & slash brawler gameplay with RPG elements. However, it was definitely DMC that popularized RPG elements in melee action games.

I think one reason why melee action games started incorporating RPG elements might be due to the decline of the arcades, and the genre's transition from arcades to consoles. With the arcade decline and the success of Resident Evil, Capcom started moving away from arcades towards consoles. And they attempted to blend the two game design approaches with new arcade-style, action-oriented RE spin-offs, which ended up becoming Onimusha and DMC.

Another reason might be the fact that two of the biggest PlayStation franchises during the late '90s to early 2000s were Final Fantasy and Resident Evil. Which might be why Capcom introduced horror and RPG elements to Onimusha and DMC, in order to cater to a PlayStation audience that loved survival horror and JRPGs.

Ultimately, it was the success of DMC that cemented RPG elements in hack & slash games. And there hasn't been any turning back since, with most hack & slash games that followed it adopting its RPG-influenced progression system.

...Thought I might as well go off on my own tanget.

Hey, might as well make something out of this topic.

Yeah, action based games with permanent upgrades rather than simple power-ups definitely predate stuff like DMC. Shit goes back at least as far as stuff like Metroid and Zelda (probably further), though at least for those games it makes sense for their structure and loop.

First melee based/beat em up style game with permanent upgrades, not really sure.

But yeah, DMC definitely established the framework for 3d beat em ups going forward, and its influences (mostly good things) have spread to other genres as well.

Anyways, your historical take on how it all came together does make sense. Never looked at it that way. But I am starting to wish that action game devs could leave some of that stuff in the past.

Been on sort of an action game binge lately and noticing that every single game I play, even my favs, all have nagging annoyances outside of the core combat. Just want one of these devs to take a good look at this genre, strip away the bs, and deliver something pure. Ironically enough, Doom Eternal probably comes closest to how I'd like to see beat em ups structured and paced, but still has shit unnecessarily tied to upgrades. A non-issue on replays of course, but still annoying.

The final fantasy series is responsible for the over-saturation.

no, and this thread is terrible, unsurprisingly.

@i_p_daily said:

@R4gn4r0k said:

@ghosts4ever said:

I'm beginning to see why you hate so many games.

Your PC is total crap.

Geez I'm no graphics whore but if that's what casualbandodger4ever is sporting then my X shits all over it and it will only get worse when the SeX comes out, and he says Halo is being built for the PC, not his PC lol, what a fucking idiot he is lol.

Careful, he flagged me and I got spanked by the mods.

Some might argue that permanent upgrades aren't really proper RPG elements, but rather a natural progression of arcade power-ups, which date back to Pac-Man. If you think about it, permanent upgrades would be like taking a Pac-Man power pellet and just making it permanent.

Earliest hack & slash brawler I can think of with permanent upgrades is Crossed Swords on the Neo Geo. But it was Capcom's later D&D arcade brawlers that semi-popularized it for 2D brawlers. And then Capcom established it as a core mechanic for 3D brawlers with DMC.

Speaking of Doom Eternal, the game's producer more-or-less confirmed in an interview that it was indeed influenced by Devil May Cry and Bayonetta. The team at id Software were basically trying to bring arcade-style action to FPS games. In some ways, this is like a throwback to the original Doom, which was an attempt by John Romero & Carmack at bringing arcade-style action to first-person dungeon-crawlers.