Is World of Warcraft worth playing?
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[QUOTE="Wikipedian"]Jonathan Blow also has one of the biggest ego's I've seen just because he made Braid. But thats beside the point. I don't play WoW anymore and I can't say its my favorite MMO, but all those comments he made there are bullcrap.While I do respect him, have too say those points show a chip on his shoulder. I tried WoW, and its not my cup of tea, but its understandable why people are so thourougly engrossed in it. I'm more of an EVE person.No, Jonathan Blow has some interesting comments on it:
* You are a schlub that has nothing better to do than repeat repetitive, mindless actions.
* Skill and shrewdness don't count for much, all that matters is how much time you sink in.
* You don't need to do anything exeptional, because to feel good you must run the treadmill like everyone else.
Skittles_McGee
[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="Wikipedian"]Jonathan Blow also has one of the biggest ego's I've seen just because he made Braid. But thats beside the point. I don't play WoW anymore and I can't say its my favorite MMO, but all those comments he made there are bullcrap.While I do respect him, have too say those points show a chip on his shoulder. I tried WoW, and its not my cup of tea, but its understandable why people are so thourougly engrossed in it. I'm more of an EVE person. Understandable in a rather sad way. It's made to be addictive. It's made to be played for ages. The actual 'quality' of what you're playing though is something along the lines of what Jonathan Blow has said, without the condescendence. The thing is, that's how MMOs have survived for a long time. And you're an EVE regular?No, Jonathan Blow has some interesting comments on it:
* You are a schlub that has nothing better to do than repeat repetitive, mindless actions.
* Skill and shrewdness don't count for much, all that matters is how much time you sink in.
* You don't need to do anything exeptional, because to feel good you must run the treadmill like everyone else.
skrat_01
I wanted to get a new pc to play wow because friends of mine play it
Is this game worth getting > ?
Rdiz
I do feel every gamer should at least play WOW once in their lifetime if not just to see what all the hupla is about.
Absolutely. Due to the game's popularity you will hear a whole lot of hate, but pay no attention. As someone who has put hundreds of hours into the game all I can say is that it's one of the most well thought-out and fun RPG experiences. It has incredible design, balancing and the game is an absolute behemoth of content. Seriously there are hundreds and hundreds of quests to under-go, dungeons to plunder with friends, places to explore, skills to learn, PvP battles to fight and oh god how the list goes on. In short, it's wonderful... check it out.NAPK1NSthis.. playing it with friends is so much fun
[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] Jonathan Blow also has one of the biggest ego's I've seen just because he made Braid. But thats beside the point. I don't play WoW anymore and I can't say its my favorite MMO, but all those comments he made there are bullcrap.FrozenLiquidWhile I do respect him, have too say those points show a chip on his shoulder. I tried WoW, and its not my cup of tea, but its understandable why people are so thourougly engrossed in it. I'm more of an EVE person. Understandable in a rather sad way. It's made to be addictive. It's made to be played for ages. The actual 'quality' of what you're playing though is something along the lines of what Jonathan Blow has said, without the condescendence. The thing is, that's how MMOs have survived for a long time. And you're an EVE regular?True, I guess, there is a point - and its how they do retain their addictiveness - that and the bond you develop between the game world, fiction, your character and guildmates.
As for EVE, nah I only just got into it after a nudge from a friend, last late November - and gave the 21 day trial a go. I plan to buy it over steam soon, or wait for the retail version re-release. Right now I hate too many other games to commit too, among plenty of other things.
Its an absolute monster of a game, and its amazing how its entirely player driven - it is quite literally like 'another world', with players going about as they please, not something so strictly bound, and governed, with total player limitation like WoW. EVE seems infinitely more complex and appealing. Only problem is, because its so focused on the players involvement in the word, you end up putting so much more time into it, and develop a commitment. I'd like to get back into it and focus on some part time pvp piracy, and hopefully work my way up into a merc corporation with friends.
Though I have been reading up on all the major happenings in EVE for a long while now - its absolutely amazing what players get up to and achieve; only in a game. Things like double crossing and deception, the gamers themselves are making their own history...... right out of one persistent game universe
Too me this is one unique thing that MMO gaming should be all about.
How about you and LOTR Online? Tried the Mines of Moria expansion? Ive heard pretty good things about it recently.
how much ram do you need for the game ? is 2 gb enough ? Rdizyeah, i played WoW with less that 1Gb and no dedicated graphics, had to run everything on lowest settings but it ran fine. Have just put a Geforce 9800GT and an extra gig in my PC now i can run everything on max with 8x multisampling. And what a differance it looks amazing now.
Understandable in a rather sad way. It's made to be addictive. It's made to be played for ages. The actual 'quality' of what you're playing though is something along the lines of what Jonathan Blow has said, without the condescendence. The thing is, that's how MMOs have survived for a long time. And you're an EVE regular?True, I guess, there is a point - and its how they do retain their addictiveness - that and the bond you develop between the game world, fiction, your character and guildmates.[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="skrat_01"]While I do respect him, have too say those points show a chip on his shoulder. I tried WoW, and its not my cup of tea, but its understandable why people are so thourougly engrossed in it. I'm more of an EVE person.skrat_01
As for EVE, nah I only just got into it after a nudge from a friend, last late November - and gave the 21 day trial a go. I plan to buy it over steam soon, or wait for the retail version re-release. Right now I hate too many other games to commit too, among plenty of other things.
Its an absolute monster of a game, and its amazing how its entirely player driven - it is quite literally like 'another world', with players going about as they please, not something so strictly bound, and governed, with total player limitation like WoW. Different types of MMOs, but too me EVE is infinitely more complex and appealing. Only problem is, because its so focused on the players involvement in the word, you end up putting so much more time into it, and develop a commitment. I'd like to get back into it and focus on some part time pvp piracy, and hopefully work my way up into a merc corporation with friends.
Though I have been reading up on all the major happenings in EVE for a long while now - its absolutely amazing what players get up to and achieve; only in a game. Things like double crossing and deception, the gamers themselves are making their own history...... right out of one persistent game universe
Too me this is one unique thing that MMO gaming should be all about.
How about you and LOTR Online? Tried the Mines of Moria expansion? Ive heard pretty good things about it recently.
I was about to say, if you're going to commit to EVE, you better be prepared. It's not so much a game as it is a way of life. And the learning curve is absolutely massive, which is why there's such a thing as a 21 day trial. Type in "EVE learning curve" on google if you haven't seen the famous graph yet :P. As much as I'd like to get back into LotRO, it's too time consuming. Then again, I've been spending my time writing writing a thesis to Denis Dyack about games as the eighth art (or, how to make Too Human not suck) than spending time getting 20 boar skins lol. No but really, games in general are too time consuming for me. If only you could multitask most of them like I do on here with Facebook and MSN (and Sociology study -_- ). I might get into LotRO in the future, but yeah, despite my presence in System Wars I've been on casual gamer mode for ages, except for Too Human, which is strangely addicting. So from here on out it's arcade fighting games and FIFA 09, with the occasional PC adventure thrown in for good measure.I was about to say, if you're going to commit to EVE, you better be prepared. It's not so much a game as it is a way of life. And the learning curve is absolutely massive, which is why there's such a thing as a 21 day trial. Type in "EVE learning curve" on google if you haven't seen the famous graph yet :P. As much as I'd like to get back into LotRO, it's too time consuming. Then again, I've been spending my time writing writing a thesis to Denis Dyack about games as the eighth art (or, how to make Too Human not suck) than spending time getting 20 boar skins lol. No but really, games in general are too time consuming for me. If only you could multitask most of them like I do on here with Facebook and MSN (and Sociology study -_- ). I might get into LotRO in the future, but yeah, despite my presence in System Wars I've been on casual gamer mode for ages, except for Too Human, which is strangely addicting. So from here on out it's arcade fighting games and FIFA 09, with the occasional PC adventure thrown in for good measure.FrozenLiquidYeah the learning curve was pretty full on at first - first tried it at about 4 in the morning at a lan, though the initial tutorial was surprisingly helpful. The biggest problem is the whole skills thing - what to train etc. though having a friend around to constantly nag for answers, and loads of extra in game tutes helped alot. I have to say i appreciate the complexity. And lol yeah, the same friend showed the that graph before getting into it - actually it kind of made it more appealing :P
lol games as the eighth art and too human not sucking ey! - you should post this on your bog, and send it too Denis Dyack - and post a reply, if there is one - it would make a very interesting read!
Its pretty much the same for me - too busy writing up a couple of design documents and concepts, looking into some SDKs, the usual facebook, messenger, going out, getting through a bunch of console games - more than pc games lately and sneaking in some system wars, than dedicating allot of that time too snatching space loot.
MMOs are addictive and strangely rewarding - or satisfying, despite the amount of hours put in, quick daily goes at a variety of less time consuming games is also very satisfying - buuut it does lack the reward. Still though more experiences > one I guess.
Its a matter of finding that line between time dedication, and not forcing huge amounts of time to be spent. Games like Tabula Rasa tried... and well, it speaks for itself. Warhammer Online tried too methinks.
Yeah the learning curve was pretty full on at first - first tried it at about 4 in the morning at a lan, though the initial tutorial was surprisingly helpful. The biggest problem is the whole skills thing - what to train etc. though having a friend around to constantly nag for answers, and loads of extra in game tutes helped alot. I have to say i appreciate the complexity. And lol yeah, the same friend showed the that graph before getting into it - actually it kind of made it more appealing :Plol games as the eighth art and too human not sucking ey! - you should post this on your bog, it would make a very interesting read.
Its pretty much the same for me - too busy writing up a couple of design documents and concepts, looking into some SDKs, the usual facebook, messenger, going out, getting through a bunch of console games - more than pc games lately and sneaking in some system wars, than dedicating alot of that time too snatching space loot.
MMOs are addictive and strangely rewarding - or satisfying, despite the amount of hours put in, quick daily goes at a variety of less time consuming games is also very satisfying - buuut it does lack the reward. Still though more experiences > one I guess.
Its a matter of finding that line between time dedication, and not forcing huge amounts of time to be spent. Games like Tabula Rasa tried... and well, it speaks for itself. Warhammer Online tried too methinks.
skrat_01
Well it sounds like you got EVE sorted. I think virtually all good MMOs understand the concept of time and reward, and that's how they're addicting. It's like the idea of having something desirable that's always a hair's length away from your reach, and you won't stop 'til you get it. And we all know we're not going to get that satisfaction in the end, be it new epic gear, new interesting quests, or huge social gatherings online. Too Human also has that idea of keeping you coming back for more. It's all about "phat lewt", and despite the mediocrity of the game, I'm coming back for more because I want that sexy epic armour for not one but three current characters, and that's just a starter.
As for the thesis I want to write up, yeah, hopefully it's going everywhere (people have told me to put my stuff on the GameSpot Soapbox, so I will definitely do that). It's more a revised version (I have found countering arguments to my initial proposals and subsequently found counter-counter arguments) of the latest blog you've seen, but includes part 2, is hopefully more concise and digestible, but that doesn't mean it's not lengthy. I do intend it to be a point of discussion and contention for video games as a serious art form, which is why I'm trying to aim it at Denis Dyack (by spamming TooHuman.net, the IGN Silicon Knights blog, and another method I won't say) because he will eat it up and somehow magnify it across the industry, then settle down and eventually making a good Too Human game.
The long lasting effect I hope to have are games which are considered under a new light (and hopefully better games in the future), but most importantly the effect it will have when I uncover my celebrity alias in the future and gamers the world over will go "Hey, wait a minute. This anonymous video game philosopher is actually this superficial, metrosexual douchebag that my sister goes gaga over? Pigs must have flown to Brazil", or in your case it could say to the roundtable during the pre-production of one of your games "You know, this guy everyone's talking about with his big ideas and concepts.... I just wanna say..... he use to be such an ass to me on System Wars :|." Laughter is the best medicine. But seriously, this is the big game (no pun intended).
Does your school go all throughout the summer? Coz I'm going through summer school, and most poeple are still on hoilday. So with your design documents and concepts, do you reckon your expertise will be in shooters or RPGs or what? And how would you like to see whatever genre expanded. Just interested. Oh and maybe, just to keep relatively on topic, say a few words about what you think MMOs should do in the future. I think I got some stuff on MMOs in the first paragraph. Can't see.
No. It's overrated crap, I've never understood why anyone would find it the least bit entertaining. I tried the free trial, and didn't even last the week before it was deleted and forgotten, it's not even a good MMORPG, and that's saying something, considering MMORPGs tend to be quite useless as a whole.
I still, to this day, wonder how it ended up getting the hype it received, and how people got so addicted to it that they'd let their kids die in the car whilst they play for 30+ hours straight...it's quite a mystery to me.
It took me ages. I now play with a main on a decent one and guess what? I now hear everyone talk about migrating to two other servers...
So i don't know what to do now, i guess this server will end up dead too :s
The trial shows you almost zero percent of the game.No. It's overrated crap, I've never understood why anyone would find it the least bit entertaining. I tried the free trial, and didn't even last the week before it was deleted and forgotten, it's not even a good MMORPG, and that's saying something, considering MMORPGs tend to be quite useless as a whole.
I still, to this day, wonder how it ended up getting the hype it received, and how people got so addicted to it that they'd let their kids die in the car whilst they play for 30+ hours straight...it's quite a mystery to me.
Andrew_Xavier
To stay to topic: Ah uh yes MMOs... well i'd like to see titles like World of Warcraft become so far less orientated around NPCs, and chains of quests, and more about the players involvement and contribution to the game world.Well it sounds like you got EVE sorted. I think virtually all good MMOs understand the concept of time and reward, and that's how they're addicting. It's like the idea of having something desirable that's always a hair's length away from your reach, and you won't stop 'til you get it. And we all know we're not going to get that satisfaction in the end, be it new epic gear, new interesting quests, or huge social gatherings online. Too Human also has that idea of keeping you coming back for more. It's all about "phat lewt", and despite the mediocrity of the game, I'm coming back for more because I want that sexy epic armour for not one but three current characters, and that's just a starter.
As for the thesis I want to write up, yeah, hopefully it's going everywhere (people have told me to put my stuff on the GameSpot Soapbox, so I will definitely do that). It's more a revised version (I have found countering arguments to my initial proposals and subsequently found counter-counter arguments) of the latest blog you've seen, but includes part 2, is hopefully more concise and digestible, but that doesn't mean it's not lengthy. I do intend it to be a point of discussion and contention for video games as a serious art form, which is why I'm trying to aim it at Denis Dyack (by spamming TooHuman.net, the IGN Silicon Knights blog, and another method I won't say) because he will eat it up and somehow magnify it across the industry, then settle down and eventually making a good Too Human game.
The long lasting effect I hope to have are games which are considered under a new light (and hopefully better games in the future), but most importantly the effect it will have when I uncover my celebrity alias in the future and gamers the world over will go "Hey, wait a minute. This anonymous video game philosopher is actually this superficial, metrosexual douchebag that my sister goes gaga over? Pigs must have flown to Brazil", or in your case it could say to the roundtable during the pre-production of one of your games "You know, this guy everyone's talking about with his big ideas and concepts.... I just wanna say..... he use to be such an ass to me on System Wars :|." Laughter is the best medicine. But seriously, this is the big game (no pun intended).
Does your school go all throughout the summer? Coz I'm going through summer school, and most poeple are still on hoilday. So with your design documents and concepts, do you reckon your expertise will be in shooters or RPGs or what? And how would you like to see whatever genre expanded. Just interested. Oh and maybe, just to keep relatively on topic, say a few words about what you think MMOs should do in the future. I think I got some stuff on MMOs in the first paragraph. Can't see.
FrozenLiquid
Yeah you pretty much have it down pat. Its always what can be achieved, and the process of doing so to get there. But when you take out that process, then the experience begins to dwindle, and there always needs to be something that you have to keep pushing forwards to achieve - or an item to obtain, and yep items by chance to sweeten the deal in the meantime, and keep you hungry. I guess that's element that really makes Dungeon Crawlers and the majority of MMOs ey.
I'll have to check it out, and length or not, as long as its well written (which my bets are that it will be, of course) it'll be well worthy of sending off to Mister Dyack - and make a good read, and piece on its own in the process.
Hahahaha, actually that would be pretty awesome if that did happen, and i'm sure you would get praised by gaming blogs, and gamers alike - considering they gush over whatever celebrity pegs themselves as a 'gamer', or highlights what games they play / have played (difference is you know the subject matter that you are talking about on a far different level), and LoL, well it would be pretty amusing if we were still all debating, and ranting on SW that far into the future :P I guess laughter is the best medicine indeed. Still whats better than making a name for yourself in one field, then branching out into others.
Nah Uni doesn't go through the summer - I've been on holidays since Oct. 31st last year, so i have had plenty of time to look into things. I really don't have a particular genre i think i specialise in - though i do rather working on certain designs i guess; its really just a matter of coming up with interesting ideas and getting them to work. Through uni I designed a NWN2 mods, followed by a bizarre first person platforming UT2004 mod (both uni projects that scored well), and looked into a Thing Inspired survival horror source mod - which is mainly about player v player deception and trust, now a source mod that's a third person, fast paced minion controlling action game. I also have had a pet project which is a rather simple physics based 'planet destroying game' where you create gravity wells in a little ship, by picking up speed, and 'chain combo planets by causing them to gravitate towards each-other and collide (sending debris towards other planets) - got the idea after playing SoaSE.
Well that's how it is for me; im not sure how it is for writing screenplays or scripts and whatnot, though I really think it differs per person.
Problem is you can have loads of ideas, but when you break it down the design can be so complex, or ultimately just not fun to play. I'd like to see genres go in different directions - and i'd like to see games take on failure differently. Rather than having complete X objectives to win - have different outcomes if objectives aren't completed - resulting in a different story arc depending on your decisions.
How about films for yourself? Any directions that you that you believe will become trends, or would like to see change? Any films on the horizon to create a shift or impact, or any audience trends to happen (or trend in film techniques) - kinda like how the state of gaming has had a gradual shift? (and of course the obligatory WoW / MMO paragraph).
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