It's either hardcore or its casual. End of story.

Meh... It's all subjective.

I think some people here fail too see that.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I do plan to continue to take up the task of creating a set system of sorts. Maybe. We'll see.

gamecubepad

Well, good luck. I'll be on the lookout for your unified theory of "hardcore or casual" classification.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

What is hardcore is usually defined as something that has depth to it. What is casual is shallow.

mattsnibbs

I disagree with this statement, casual tends to be a game you can drop in or out of as you please and when doing so doesn't destroy the enjoyment of gameplay itself.

There are hardcore games that are more shallow than casual games somtimes having bigger explosions doesn't translate to a better game

Both of you: Thats why its not an or and thats why its a scale.

We can redefine what is "casual" and what is "hardcore" just as well.

Same reply I always post to this question...

According to system wars, the answer is incredibly simple:

Casual: Colors.

Hardcore: Shades of brown and/or gray.

Corollary: According to system wars, brown grass is somehow more realistic than green grass.

Here, I made a chart I think we all can agree on.

jeffwulf

[QUOTE="jeffwulf"]

Here, I made a chart I think we all can agree on.

anshul89

No because FFXI is more hardcore than every game on that list.

[QUOTE="AlexSays"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]Mario's definitely a casual game.
Ilived

Someone's never played a Mario game.

Unless you're judging by diffculty. Then you haven't played Lost Levels.

It depends WHAT Mario game really. Out of the last 10 years lots of Mario games have been released and the only ones worth mentioning is Mario 64 and SMG.

.

I classify games based on their tone.

Halo has a darker tone than Mario, so Halo is more hardcore.

However, the problem with this is thatsome games with a light tone are hardcore (see: Kirby, Okami).

.

NinjaMunkey01

There's no such thing as casual or hardcore games, only casual or hardcore gamers.

/thread

This is just a way for internet kiddies to feel special because they want to be called hardcore. Just play what you want, nobody should be worried about labels.DaBrainz

We can't assess and classify the games that we play?

What about games like Smash bros, halo, GTA, and madden? They appeal to casuals and hardcores at the same time.Shinobishyguy

Exactly, because its not about hardcore > casual. I don't see why the wii fanboys reading this thread haven't figured that out yet. It doesn't matter whot hey appeal to, because all players (generally) play games outside of their designated "group."

That's because hardcore gamers and hardcore games are too entirely different subjects and they don't always match up, as illustrated by the wii fans in this thread.

There's no such thing as casual or hardcore games, only casual or hardcore gamers.

/thread

Rocky32189

Are there games with depth? Are there games with complexity?

The labels don't matter, its the content that does.

You don't have to oppose this wii fans, this isn't an attack the wii. Wii owners are open to providing input based on the criteria on what games belong where on the scale.

Hardcore is just a point of view, to a casual gamer Wii Play may appear hardcore, whilst to a Hardcore gamer, Bioshock is.

It all really boils down to opinion and perspective.

Hardcore is just a point of view, to a casual gamer Wii Play may appear hardcore, whilst to a Hardcore gamer, Bioshock is.

It all really boils down to opinion and perspective.

Phazon_goomba

Thats why I've established criteria. So what is hardcore actually stands for something.

I think I'll have to make a new topic and invent new names so that the wii fans don't so vehemently oppose it.

The problem with using complexity as a measure for how hardcore a game is, is that some games are easy to get into but hard to master, like chess for example. I think the best measurement for whether or not a game is hardcore would be its fanbase. If a game has a serious and hardcore fanbase then the game is hardcore, otherwise it is not. So a simple game like CounterStrike can be considered hardcore, because it has a serious hardcore fanbase, but Wii Sports is not , because most of its fanbase is not hardcore. I think this is the measure we subconsciously use anyways. This is why their is so much debate about SMG, it has a mixed fanbase. tibicina

Woah woah woah. Easy to get into and complexity are too different things.

Chess has a lot of complexity and depth. Which is why the ease of the .. err .. "control scheme" doesn't matter. It's still on the hardcore scale.

Fanbase is irrelevant as well. I am not considering players in this, because "hardcore" gamers sometimes play "casual" games and vice versa. If we focus on players we are focusing on something outside of the content of the game.

There's no such thing as casual or hardcore games, only casual or hardcore gamers.

/thread

Rocky32189

I tried that. :(

[QUOTE="tibicina"]The problem with using complexity as a measure for how hardcore a game is, is that some games are easy to get into but hard to master, like chess for example. I think the best measurement for whether or not a game is hardcore would be its fanbase. If a game has a serious and hardcore fanbase then the game is hardcore, otherwise it is not. So a simple game like CounterStrike can be considered hardcore, because it has a serious hardcore fanbase, but Wii Sports is not , because most of its fanbase is not hardcore. I think this is the measure we subconsciously use anyways. This is why their is so much debate about SMG, it has a mixed fanbase. hakanakumono

Woah woah woah. Easy to get into and complexity are too different things.

Chess has a lot of complexity and depth. Which is why the ease of the .. err .. "control scheme" doesn't matter. It's still on the hardcore scale.

Fanbase is irrelevant as well. I am not considering players in this, because "hardcore" gamers sometimes play "casual" games and vice versa. If we focus on players we are focusing on something outside of the content of the game.

... or not.

After all disagreeing as to what a hardcore game actually is and what it is not on these forums, some owners of a casualware filled system find solace in claiming that there is no such thing!

But I disagree. Why can't it be more of a scale? What is hardcore is usually defined as something that has depth to it. What is casual is shallow. But certain games are more shallow than others and certain games are obviously more deep than others. Also, I believe how easy it is to play factors in (casuals focus on simplicity).

So, if we were to make a scale, how would we set it up? First we need all the genre's present. Here's a loose representation of what I think it could look like:

Casual (for back of a better word: see "wii music, wii sports), Platformer, JRPG = FPS, WRPG = SRPG, Survival Horror, RTS, Adventure ... ?

What do you think? Surely some games have more of the essence of what we think of when we think "hardcore" than others. I believe that more hardcore games are generally more .. uhm .. esoteric? Anyways, post away. What do you think?

This topic is about breaking them down walls, not building them up. Don't be quick to say there's no such thing, because thats just building a wall against the idea that there is variation in games. Clearly, different games have different levels of complexity and depth. Place genres where you want to. What about deviations? Think about it. Perhaps the scale will serve to place games where they generally fall, but later on we'll be able to cla$$ify games that lie outside their genre's general position.

hakanakumono

Ugh.

It annoys me when people say that hardcore and casual games don't exsist.

That means KOTOR and wii music are in the same category, which is a definite no-no.

That's not the only example I can think of, either...

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]

There's no such thing as casual or hardcore games, only casual or hardcore gamers.

hakanakumono

Are there games with depth? Are there games with complexity?

The labels don't matter, its the content that does.

You don't have to oppose this wii fans, this isn't an attack the wii. Wii owners are open to providing input based on the criteria on what games belong where on the scale.

Complexity? Most FPS games are pretty simple (run and gun) so I guess by your standards most FPS games are casual.

Here's the thing: There's no such thing as a hardcore or casual game. As this thread has proven, there is no way to define either one. However, there is such a thing as a hardcore or a casual gamer. Sure, games can be targeted at a certain audience, but you can't define a game based on this.

Playing many E rated games is hardcore.

i don't understand what you're trying to say.

but, some genre's can be declared casual IMO because there will never be a game that will be hardcore in that genre.

such as the pet simulator genre. the day they make a 'petz' game that actually has some depth, i will buy it.

i don't understand what you're trying to say.

but, some genre's can be declared casual IMO because there will never be a game that will be hardcore in that genre.

such as the pet simulator genre.the day they make a 'petz' game that actually has some depth, i will buy it.

mistervengeance

Just kidding

Casual and hardcore games DO exsist.

Just because no one can agree on a definition doesn't mean they don't exsist.

Casual and hardcore games DO exsist.

Just because no one can agree on a definition doesn't mean they don't exsist.Shadow_of_Kirby

People can't agree to a definition because there isn't a way to define them.

People play the type of games they enjoy. End of story.