Jim Sterling: Street Fighter V is Early AAAccess (like Battlefront and R6 Siege); Splatoon Did This Better

The "tact on" bit was a quote from your post...

"This is the forum that will bitch that SP games don't need tacked on mp modes, but then when a mp game comes out, it needs a tacked on sp mode, because why?"

I realize that you were not saying that you specifically believe this, but it goes to your framing of the subject matter. I don't mean to straw-man you at all...just for the record.

Also to add, I just watched the video that you linked to, so I think I have a better understanding now of your view point. That being said, the SP "campaigns" games cited in the vid, and in your post above, are wholly different from "campaign" being asked for in SFV right now.

Even though a fully cinematic story mode is coming for SFV in June, and even though many people (including me) are looking forward to it, right now people aren't disappointed that that mode isn't in, they are upset that SFV doesn't even have a tradition Arcade Mode. There is no way for people to just play against the CPU (bots) in consecutive matches, and that is what people are bitching about (mainly).

An argument can be made that the cinematic story mode is a "waste of resources" if the framing was the same as from that video, but I don't think having an arcade mode would fall into that same framing. Even the vid you linked to pointed to bots being important in certain contexts, and an arcade mode, or something like it NOT being a part of the base package, and also it not even being on the roster of updates, is what people are upset about.

If Gamespot scores it higher than a 6 then they are tools. Who can honestly look at this retail release and say, yeah this is worth $60! 9.0!

Those who are deeply invested in the online. I forked out $70 (the joys of being Canadian) and I feel like I've gotten my money's worth solely through the component.

Then again, I bought the game very specifically for this reason.

Argue all you guys want. The review isn't up yet. Other major, unfinished and glitchy games like driveclub and MCC got nailed for this. This game is being treated different.

That tact on part was in response to mooksi about how this forum goes on on and on and on about mp games in this manner, which is where my beef with Rainbow Six being compared by Sterling comes along, but otherwise man I don't disagree with anyone that thinks SFV's sp stuff should be better. There is arguments for it based entirely on its predecessors (your examples) or even a contemporary in its genre (Mortal Kombat being one, Smash Bros being another with its sp options). All I ever said was that personally, it doesn't effect me, and some of these people use this strawman as if that's the only area SFV has let people downe, when it's not just the SP that is barebones, the mp has its issues as well. The game is coasting on its fighting engine (which admittedly is yes the most important part of the game, but it's not the only part). All I said.

That rant itself on its own is just that, a rant about mp only games shouldn't even be considered a problem. Whether or not they have the content to justify being a mp only game, that's the argument that has more merit. All I really mean, because the other stuff is a non-issue if we look back at some of the better mp games in the history of this medium.

It's really surprising how some people are dumb, blind and don't paying attention. Suddenly, they're surprised about content in SFV. Just LOL!

Capcom said a few weeks ago which modes will be at launch after final beta :

there are the six game modes that Capcom will be including with Street Fighter V at launch:

• Tutorial
• Character Story Mode
• Survival Mode
• Training Mode
• Network Battle
• Capcom Fighters Network

While not promising any additional modes beyond the six specifically, Capcom did note that it has plans for several free content updates for Street Fighter V after the game launches. That includes the free Story Mode Expansion announced earlier this week. Hopefully they’re not just referring to characters and skins, but don’t be surprised if that first content updated includes some sort of marketplace.

http://gamerant.com/street-fighter-5-modes-final-beta/

For a competitive game to be released in this sate is truly a joke.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StreetFighter/comments/470jdp/capcom_seriously_needs_to_count_rage_quitting_in/

SF4 ladder was a joke, looks V isn't going to be much better.

• The Tutorial wasn't a real tutorial in the sense that it taught you how to play the game. It quickly outlined Ryu, and that was all.
• Character story mode (before release) seemed like the name of their Arcade-ish Mode. It wasn't, and was thus very disappointing for many.

All the other modes were pretty self explanatory.

So what was Sony's role in this? And I don't believe they didn't have heavy influence.

You could probably credit Sony telling Capom to just make one version of the game and give people the ability to earn extras without paying. We all know how much Capcom love to milk. And we're constantly told how the game wouldn't exist without Sony. So I don't believe this is all on Capcom.

LMAO, Sterling? you mean the most pathetic hungry attention whinny "journalist" the industry has? sure, that's a reliable source.

Anyway, don't know what's the big deal with this, the game seems to be great with plenty of free content to come, don't like it, wait until the game is finished, this is pretty much Splatoon all over again and now the game feels like a different game, but go ahead and complain while you play Battlefront.

Pretty much man. This was the cycle for me.

> Not going to buy this game by any means until they get their shit together.

> Played it at a buddies house and immediately started looking for cheap deals when I got home.

> Bought it for 34 bucks.

> It's now easily my favorite game of the year thus far.

Really, I played this shit for almost 10 hours straight yesterday. I don't binge play games like that anymore, but I couldn't pull myself away.

I'm not going to excuse Capcom and pretend a launch like this is ok, but damn it bro, I'm just having too much fun to really care.

Well, they could have made it like DOA5.

@HalcyonScarlet: Look months before release Sony were gods for making 5 happen but now that is released as half assed it's ALL Capcom. What a a load of shit. They take this hit for finding and saying ok to this

I read the online netcode is quite good for this game, which is great news because it was SF4's Achilles' heel. While the game appears to be bare bones, as soon as they add rage-quit penalties I think it will have a solid foundation for which to build upon.

For me, and mostly because it is an online competitive game, I wouldn't mind the temporary lack of features as long as the game does one thing well, which is the online. However, there are no rage quit penalties, it is not possible to start a lobby bigger than 2, etc those are things that I consider essential. They can be easily and quickly added, therefore I am confident SF5 will get there one day.

I agree. Destiny was the McDonalds of this strategy.

Well, Splatoon is far more accessible to a larger group of people. Pretty much anyone can pick up and play that games multiplayer and have a blast. The simplicity of its games design works in its favor and made the lack of content less noticeable. Street Fighter V only real mode is online multiplayer, and let's be honest here, only a small minority of people will manage to fully enjoy it. While both games share a similar content shortage, Street Fighter V is far worse. That games structure completely turns away casuals and people wanting to learn fighting games. The lack of content hurts SFV fundamentally for many people, the same can't be said for Splatoon.

This sums it up perfectly!

No game should ever be released, full price if it isn't going to provide you with the whole gaming experience (DLCs that add to that experience not withstanding). Sadly, this culture and ideology is now becoming extinct in the gaming industry because millions will still pay 50 quid for a pile of unfinished crap.

Wonderful Splatoon is easier to play, Street Fighter demands more of its players, that is something we knew going into the game without playing a second of either. Regardless of that point, Splatoon was just as paltry on the content front at launch. It wasn't less noticeable, it was just apologized for because the game plays that well. It's no different than Street Fighter (plus the competitive edge), either way in both cases the games should have been better suited for launch.

Counter-Strike was a free mod for Half-Life. Battlefield 2 had a very decent amount of content and didn't feel half-finished (evident by generally positive reviews). Tribes wasn't a full price game. To make these sort of comparisons, you have to really have no idea what you're talking about because what we got with SFV, R6 Siege, and Battlefront doesn't even slightly resemble the value we got from games from the 90's games to early 00's. I'm under the impression the people who think things are the same as they always were simply weren't around back in the day when games were finished and worked for most people on launch.

The problem really has little to do with multiplayer games that don't offer single-player. The problem is that the multiplayer-only games often don't provide much value compared the ones that aren't, with the reason being is that they're often quite broken and lacking in mp content. It would be one thing if SF V made up with the lack of SP content with an abundance of MP content - but that's clearly not the case. The MP content is arguably scarce even compared to what we got with SF 4. Is it really all that crazy to expect games to offer more and not less?

im sorry no,but nintendo did the same thing only difference is they got away with it thats it. Splatoon was still lacking in content from day one with you having to wait for things that should of been there already. You can love splatoon,but saying its was 100% fine what they did or "done right" is just turning a blind eye to it. If your putting SF5 down for it you cant say splatoon is off scot free.

Less than a month later SFV will be a totally different animal but gameplay is unmatched in the fighting genre.

Until it had a retail release of its own in 2000. Just an FYI

When you see comments like "no campaign, no buy", or "this should have been free to play" in regards to MP-only titles, it has less to do with filling a void in content and more so to do with entitlement and shoehorning aspects in a game that it wouldn't benefit from. A lot of 90s MP games upon release were thin on content when the started out. Counter-Strike had three game modes, roughly a handful of maps and that was it upon its retail relase. With Battlefield 2, as far as I remember it was released to numerous technical issues and Gamespy related bullshit where, had it been released now, it would have been called unfinished.

We're now in a generation where content and value are directly linked with each other, which distorts perceptions. The value should be coming from the core gameplay itself, because if you're at least able to knock that out of the park, you can constantly build a foundation around it with free updates and the like. An immense amount of content can only go so far when the core gameplay itself is deeply problematic.

@chocolate1325: Hopefully this iconic series will be back on its feet soon. They pretty much invented the genre and the gameplay looks great. But even where competitive online is concerned, there are glaring omissions such as the lack of rage quit penalties, which Capcom should know about as people complained a lot about this with SF4.

The bigger issue here is that fighting games are somewhat niche and a tough sell to the mainstream consumer in the first place. I'm sure it will do well in the competitive scene, but financially is a different story. The lack of all these modes at launch will hurt its sales with casuals. Many people are dismissing single player story for now, and that is understandable, I wouldn't care either as someone who loves to play fighters online, but that is important for casuals who don't necessarily want to go online right away.

Anyways, I just watched an interesting video from Maximilliam Dood(Youtube personality, huge SF fan) about how casuals are important to SF5, and he makes some interesting points about that.

Jim clearly forgot Splatoon's launch. He was so Salty from it.

Something I want to add to this.

If I recall correctly, Nintendo was also involved with the development of Bayonetta 2 even if its was a supervisory role to ensure the game's quality.

Why? Because it was Nintendo's money that was going into development, publishing and marketing for the game on the Wii U.

And like Street Fighter V, this was a game that was "saved" by a hardware maker who helped the game get produced. Sony fans like to claim that Street Fighter V would have never happened without Sony's money and support, well Bayonetta 2 was in the same boat. Sega had no interest in publishing or marketing it, as did nobody else besides Nintendo.

So, Nintendo ensured their money was spent well and they got a return on their investment with Bayonetta 2.

What's Sony's excuse? Did they just cut a check and give it to Capcom while they look the other way? They are involved in some form with how SF V ended up even if their role was nothing more then giving money and being the publisher. They still should have had a supervisory role.

If Nintendo can do it, why can't they? To say nothing of Microsoft.

@caryslan2: Exactly. This isn't just a "well it's crapom" situation. The so called savior obviously didn't give a crap and figured sales will chug along regardless of what they care to do or not. After all they're "for the players"

This is such a good point.

Guy's running out of material.

Rainbow Six Siege wasn't missing any features at launch and launched with a good selection of maps and modes. Furthermore, all future content, such as operators and maps, are completely free of charge. The servers had some problems at launch, sure, but calling it an early access game is stupid as ****.

Battlefront neither launched with any lacking features. Some people might've WANTED bot matches, more maps, or whatever. But people wanting something the game never promised is does not make it incomplete or "early access". Battlefront has too received great post-launch support with a good amount of free content, so yeah... another crap example.

Neither of these games are mission any major features that's to be expected of the kind of games they are. You may not agree with the amount of content, but the game itself, the full experience, is there in both cases. Street Fighter V is an entirely opposite story, given that the game is lacking content you'd very much expect to be there in a fighting game of its type. Now, whether or not this has been made clear before its release I honestly don't know, given that I have zero interest in the game to begin with. Still, picking good example out of three for a video like this hardly helps him get his point across.

The guy feeling that the games are lacking in content does turn them into early access games. The developers for both games were VERY clear about what these games would offer at launch. And they've delivered on said promises. Fallout 4 was severely lacking in RPG elements according to many, with 60 dollars worth of DLC on its way. What if one of these DLCs add to the RPG elements of the game; will that render Fallout 4 an incomplete game? And did the developers of said game even promise us said RPG elements in the first place, based on pre-release material? I'm not entirely sure.

Again, he seems to be running out of stuff to talk about, resulting in him getting stuck in some kind of "man, aren't big developers/publishers just horrible evil people"-rut. It's getting a bit sad.

The only thing I am hopeful about is more AAA devs are going the MOBA/MMO route of constantly supporting their game with updates for years after it.. I am hopeful that Capcom supports this game and it becomes what Diablo 3 became.. Diablo 3 went from a god awful game at release, and after numerous patches and a expansion it is leagues upon leagues better.

Splatoon sold over 4m copies on Nintendo Wii U lol it destroyed SFV and embarassed Sony and Microsoft