Kickstarter hurt as No Man Sky impedes blind hype

Pragmatism is annoying.

Building a space sim in a post-No Man's Sky world

No Man's Sky has hurt us, very clearly," Jean-Christophe Baillie, an impeccably smart looking Frenchman, tells me as he finishes his short demo of Dual Universe in action. "This is a post-No Man's Sky era. People cannot do the same thing. There's a huge amount of distrust in the community. As you know we're doing a Kickstarter, and half of the comments are like this is just No Man's Sky all over again. We're struggling. We're not quite there yet because of that. Our statement is we totally understand what's going on, and our policy is to be totally transparent.

So not only did Sean Murray screw himself over, he's screwing other developers...

What a shit show...

If No Man's Sky will finally make people to be reasonable then something good came out of it. Thank you, NMS. Stop hyping, stop pre-ordering and stop crowdfunding.

Hello Games are a bunch of smooth talking no good CARNY's!

They shut down their own forum after the game came out and aren't even taking in anymore feedback

Paying for games that are not already made is dumb any way.

Star Fraud is next when it finally releases in 2020.

*edit I guess can understand funding a game like Shenmue 3 through Kickstarter since fans have been wanting for almost two decades now and it wasn't going to happen any other way.

People can do whatever they want with their own money.

I'll say it again...Murray looked as if he couldn't believe ppl were buying into what he was saying every time I saw him talk about his game.

He had this smirk and a "HOMG, dude...they believe this shit!!!" look.

To me he always look uncomfortable and now I know why. Because he knew he couldn't deliver on his promises, but he was in way too deep to back off.

Either whatever it was, we can't be the only ppl that saw him acting odd...for the lack of a better word.

I just assumed he was nervous or afraid of public speaking at the time. Which could still be true.

The irony is that if NMS had actually been a kick starter it probably would have turned out a lot better. By chaining themselves to Sony they pretty much fucked themselves.

Hello Games, Sean Murray and No Man's Sky are toxic names to the Gaming industry.

I'm sure the countless other failed Kickstarters share a lot of the blame.

Yup. If Sony use it to promote PS4 game then it's fine. Otherwise it's bad for everyone's health. Totally agree.

@dynamitecop: Best way to put it. I don't think Sean will ever show his face again after this clusterfuck. Or at least not for a very long time.

In other news, some interesting No Man's Left stats:

Steam reviews: 33% (overall) 13% (last 30 days). 48k out of 72k reviews are all negative.

Average players: 37k (Aug) 3k (Sep) 2k (last 30 days)

Peak: 212k (all time) 1.2k (24 hrs)

*ring ring*

yes, hello? Ahhh, good morning Star Citizen. 40 you say? Million!? Gee golly that's amazing!"

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yeah let's not forget No Man's Sky isn't the only horse in town, just the only colossal flop (I still love the game, though, I knew what to expect apparently others misled themselves).

inb4yeahbutstarcitizenistakingforever

No, just Sony. I think if they had remained independent, they would have been all right. Maybe realized they should release the game as an Early Access title.

I mean Sony published the game and did all the marketing. What misled the consumer? THE MARKETING! If you actually stopped looking at the pictures and read what was being said, people would know that the game wasn't going to be this epic thing, that it's a really mellow laid back time. Hell that whole debacle over the two players not seeing eachother? That was a known fact it could not happen! The only reason the game is online is for stat tracking, not for actual multiplayer. I never read it would have that in there.

Swear to god, people have lost that glorious spark of being young at heart; everyone wants to be taken by the hand and guided along, no one wants to sit in the sandbox and just space out, create, and be at their mind's mercy.

"What is this? Paint? A blank canvas? BUT I WANT THE PICTURE PAINTED FOR ME!" whine whine whine

As terrible as NMS has been to expectations. Kickstarter has long been losing investor funding and trust. Too many unqualified or over ambitious developers long began tarnishing the site out of ignorance, greed, or both.

As stingent as publishers can be with funding games, particularly new IP's. Kickstarter is exactly why. Publishers know better to do risk assessments before dropping a dime on a developer. And are open to cancelling a game to cut losses. When things get far too haywire. But NMS looks to be nothing in comparison to Star Citizen, when it comes to crowd funding.

Maybe the developer would have felt like they had to try harder if Sony wasn't there to hold their hands. Sometimes when Sony gain one upmanship, everyone loses. NMS, SFV... It's no good completing SFV when the products no longer hot and people have jumped ship and made a decision either way. What does this mean for Shenmue?

In a way this is a good thing.

Anytime a highly-preordered, overhyped, and/or Kickstarter'd game comes out and fails miserably to the surprise of no one, it might just make people less likely to believe in this shit the next time.

It's unfortunate Sean Murray and Sony got away with robbing their fans of money, but if it can prevent a lot more doodooberry developers from robbing people of money in a preorder or crowdfunded game then so be it.

The government should stop looking for known terrorists and find out where the hell Sean Murray is hiding !

@Icarian: Without crowd funding, there would be no Shenmue 3. S3 is the first and probably last game I'll crowd fund. It's a favorite series with no ending to the story.

My experience so far is a positive one as Yu Suzuki and YS Net in general have been really open about the process and have had many updates since the Kickstarter ended (I think we're at 60 or so updates so far).

The big difference is that Shenmue already had a following. Gamers know or have the chance to know what Shenmue is before giving a penny. Many of these Kickstarter games suffering from No Man's Sky fallout are new IPs that are unproven.

Either way it's a good lesson for many; know what you're investing in.

If NMS was good though, they probably wouldnt fund this kickstarter because they already have a space exploration sim. Granted there would be a few in each scenario that would shell out money

Kickstarter really just needs a monitoring process. A way for gamers to be ensured that these developers are following up on their promises. If Kickstarter required monthly video updates, and blogs, that'd be a good start.

That's the main difference with a game like Shenmue (or in previous cases like when Tim Schafer and Double Fine wanted to make games) is that these are known developers who we know have actually made games. We assume that there will be a final product in the end, and we have their history of development to give us a ballpark of what type of product we'll receive.

But when any no-name can hit up kickstarter, get $50,000+ in funding, and never deliver a final product, then why wouldn't crooks take up that offer? It's free money.

@beardmad: Good point and agreed. Kickstarter definitely needs a moderating process.

Hitler ain't shit. Sean Murray is the worst despot in human history and needs to be locked up forever! No amount of hyperbole can suffice for his heinous deeds!

Ironic thing is it's a good game that I enjoy and have played it a whole lot more than many triple A games I spent $60 dollars on. I am glad I bought it. I'm not the only one. Too bad this game could't have been kept out of the mainstream gamer's hands and left to the niche fans were it belongs. Not anyone's fault but your own if you thought this was going to be like Uncharted or Call of Duty or something.

Some really good games come out of crowd-funding. To stop using it as a platform to support smaller dev teams would be dumb.

EDIT: That reminds me Wasteland 3 is up for some crowd-funding. Wooo

Star Citizen has multiple, weekly, video updates as well as monthly studios reports. Let's not forget the permanently on and regularly updated, fully playable alpha which any backer can play at any time. Yet C.I.G. still face a barrage of "scam" claims from haters who for some reason, really, really want them to fail in all their endeavours.

Kickstarter funders are taking the same risks as a publisher when they back anything and sometimes even the biggest publishers get stung. The Halo MMO, for example, was cancelled after $90 million had been poured into it. It's an individuals decision to take the same risk or not.

Kickstarter merely offer a platform for people wanting to do stuff and need money, they are not there to judge the whether a campaign will be successful or not.

Gotta love them Sony double standards! If it's okay for a corporation like Sony with lots of resources to do it, why can't small indie devs with little money otherwise do it? If anything Sony is abusing it.

I've been waiting for a game like Star Citizen for more than two decades now and nobody would invest in it to make it happen....except us "suckers". Now it's finally "never" coming together, with constant updates, videos, interviews, design documents, and more in the most transparent game development in history. And people STILL have the gall to say it's never coming out or say it's a scam because it's ONLY been 4 years on a game with quite possibly the largest scope of all time. Ridiculous.

Yeah looking forward to Citizen Con later today for some Single Player goodness. I expect usual suspects to show there with their usual "what's the release date" or "scam" bullshit. Always fun to read these butthurt posters though. They want a game that can re-energize AAA market to fail just because they are too broke to afford gaming. "Gamers" my ass.

when the **** has gaming or being a gamer ever been about how much money you put into the hobby??

Don't take it too literally. What I meant was, people hate on games that aren't on their platform.

@Cloud_imperium: fair enough.

Despite recent kickstarter and indie blunders, I still have high hopes for Yooka-Laylee

Never buy anything if you are uninformed. I got exactly what I was expecting with No Mans Sky. Never had any unrealistic expectations about it. I got the platinum trophy and played over a hundred hours and still have not reached the center of the galaxy, and yes I already know what happens when you do. Have not played the game in weeks and probably won't until it gets updated.

@The_Stand_In: We can see who was right in another 4 years.

Sean Murray and Co are probably out snorting coke off some strippers ,partying like crazy and laughing at all the people who bought a non refundable ps4 copy. Never pre order ! Don't crowdfund indie trash !

@HalcyonScarlet:

I don't think sony had any word about SFV seems to me Capcom just decided to rush it for their Capcom pro tour since USF4 was losing steam and players were complaining and it paid off maybe they lost some of of the casuals (who would have left the game after few weeks anyway) but the game online community is thriving and the competitive scene is bigger than it ever was.

Also i don't think sony has any say about Shenmue 3 i don't see sony doing or advertising the game since E3.

the problem is AAA devs EXPECT preorders. If they look and see that AAA game has very little preorders they will likely just not release the game or release it and ditch it and never support it after like the first 3 months if that. The system is designed in such a "fucked out of money if you do, fucked out of the game if you don't" type of way there is no real alternative...

This is true. The dev was overwhelmed by the large hype machine Sony brought and he couldn't keep up.

There are crowd funding projects that let you invest... although they won't let you invest for a small amount of money. For example as of writing this you can invent into Wasteland 3 in chunks of $1000, and there is currently ~$500K left of investment opportunity.

For normal people you can give $33 and receive a copy of the game for slightly less than its retail price; because you trust the developer and believe they will deliver a solid end product. That way the dev does not have to seek funding elsewhere, for example: a large publisher that will force their will onto the project with due dates and required multiplayer or some shit like that.

Pretty simple, yeah?

It's always about managing expectations.

But considering I am still playing No Mans Sky, perhaps players need to manage their own expectations as well. It is a two way street after all.

Was NMS a kickstarter game? I dont see the relationship. I've kickstarted a few games and havent really been disappointed even when they dont turn out great like Eternal Crusade.

I think the onus is on the devs. How can other peoples' bad rep effect your work? Make a good game, be transparent, accept feedback good and back and the cream will rise to the top.

Kickstarter is buyer beware. Games like NMS set off all kinds of red flags in my bad game radar because they wouldnt actually show any gameplay. Any game that devs are confident in they will let people play it. Most of the time they want people to play it to give feedback and fix it.

The gamers are the ones that have hypocritical and unrealistic expectations mostly.

Look at this thread. People are bashing KS but giving Shenmue a pass basically because its a game they like. So when Shenmue 3 flops, the same people will be white knighting it, just like people white knighted NMS.

@oflow: NMK was never a kickstarter to begin with. It was supposed to be a simple none AAA indie game but when Sony got involve, everything that Hello Games made blow up in there face at launch and Murray just added too much damage in the end.

@davillain-: So the moral of the story is dont join the Sony hype machine? lol jk

I wonder if they had made NMS a preview program game would they be getting as much hate? Probably not, but they also wouldnt be swimming in pool of Scrooge McDuck doubloons right now either. Kinda feels like Murray basically sold out. I think he had altruistic intentions and then folded under the AAA pressure and then just went thru the motions and said screw it. Sort of like Jason Russell.

For any indie game, yes!

I think you're still not understanding.....