Killzone devs say they'll shut up the critics

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/08/killzone-devs-say-well-shut-up-the-critics/

Ever since that over-ambitious trailer from E3 2005, the fellows in charge of Killzone have had to dodge tomatoes from everyone in the universe, it seems. Surely, no game could look that good, could it? Guerrila Games has issued a pretty telling statement regarding their showing of Killzone 2 at this year's E3: "hopefully it will all go brilliantly and we'll shut up even some of the most ardent critics." Well, that and their inner voice telling them "OH MY GOD WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" So says Sebastian Downie.

We can't even imagine what they'll have to say at E3. It's going to be very difficult to satisfy fans and critics alike because they can't get over the fact that the graphics in the game can't possibly match that shown in the 2005 video, which served more as a tech demo than a hint at a game, like Final Fantasy VII. At least, not gameplay. What we were told to expect, however, was the announcement of online capabilities and some kind of public beta coming later this year. We'll see these guys at E3!

Interesting comment of that thread:

The problem with using prerendered trailers, is the audience not know what the PURPOSE of showing the trailer was. They think that because they see moving stuff on a big screen at E3, that the developer is claiming the game will look just like that....

They show a prerendered trailer because the game isn't even that far in development, and they want the audience to see what kind of game they should expect- not how the game will look. These guys wanted you to know that you're going to be making WWII type beach landings, dealing with attacks from all sides, commanding your squad, and taking out vehicles. They wanted to convey that the game is going to be fast paced action with chaos all around.

Now, the AUDIENCE thought that it was showing what the game would look like. Then, on top of that, the developers mentioned that in-game assets(ie: textures, models, sounds, etc.) were used in some areas of the trailer- even further convincing the gamers out there that these guys want us to believe that this is what the game will look like, when in fact it was only a representation of what they were aiming to recreate as far as concept and playbility is concerned: not the visuals.

And no, not even a disclaimer at the beginning would have nipped this whole situation at the bud. It seems like every trailer out there has those disclaimers but everyone wants to keep ignoring them.

I just skimmed, but are they trying to say they'll match their target render?

Doesn't matter if they had better graphics than Gears or any next gen game out there, if the game sucks overall, it won't be fun. Guerilla hasn't proven that they make quality games by GS's records.

Edit: Ok I see that the PSP game actually did well here on GS.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/company/index.php?company=72509&om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;developer

but many of their other stuff looks very lacking... :( Also on GR no killzone game is AA either, but hey if they can make a great game, sure. I just have high doubts it could be anything "AAA"

Of course, all that wall of text is shot down to the ground with the simple fact that Sony (and Guerrilla) claimed it was gameplay. Not a "Tech Demo" (can you even have a prerendered tech demo? isn't that a contradiction?), and not a "proof of concept". The trailer was hyped as real gameplay, and was designed and directed in such a way as to purposely give that impression.

I just skimmed, but are they trying to say they'll match their target render?

Doesn't matter if they had better graphics than Gears or any next gen game out there, if the game sucks overall, it won't be fun. Guerilla hasn't proven that they make quality games by GS's records.

yoshi_64

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/08/killzone-devs-say-well-shut-up-the-critics/

Ever since that over-ambitious trailer from E3 2005, the fellows in charge of Killzone have had to dodge tomatoes from everyone in the universe, it seems. Surely, no game could look that good, could it? Guerrila Games has issued a pretty telling statement regarding their showing of Killzone 2 at this year's E3: "hopefully it will all go brilliantly and we'll shut up even some of the most ardent critics." Well, that and their inner voice telling them "OH MY GOD WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" So says Sebastian Downie.

We can't even imagine what they'll have to say at E3. It's going to be very difficult to satisfy fans and critics alike because they can't get over the fact that the graphics in the game can't possibly match that shown in the 2005 video, which served more as a tech demo than a hint at a game, like Final Fantasy VII. At least, not gameplay. What we were told to expect, however, was the announcement of online capabilities and some kind of public beta coming later this year. We'll see these guys at E3!

Interesting comment of that thread:

The problem with using prerendered trailers, is the audience not know what the PURPOSE of showing the trailer was. They think that because they see moving stuff on a big screen at E3, that the developer is claiming the game will look just like that....

They show a prerendered trailer because the game isn't even that far in development, and they want the audience to see what kind of game they should expect- not how the game will look. These guys wanted you to know that you're going to be making WWII type beach landings, dealing with attacks from all sides, commanding your squad, and taking out vehicles. They wanted to convey that the game is going to be fast paced action with chaos all around.

Now, the AUDIENCE thought that it was showing what the game would look like. Then, on top of that, the developers mentioned that in-game assets(ie: textures, models, sounds, etc.) were used in some areas of the trailer- even further convincing the gamers out there that these guys want us to believe that this is what the game will look like, when in fact it was only a representation of what they were aiming to recreate as far as concept and playbility is concerned: not the visuals.

And no, not even a disclaimer at the beginning would have nipped this whole situation at the bud. It seems like every trailer out there has those disclaimers but everyone wants to keep ignoring them.

peppeaccardo

After that bold TC, were did you get that information?

I have documented the impenetrable nature of fanboy thinking:

1) OMG LOL! That game is totally CGI! Sony lied!

2) WHo cares if its made to spec? It's not gameplay and I don't know the difference between CGI and real-time rendering. Sony lied!

3) Let's make a dozen threads every day about killzone 2 wondering why people keep talking about Killzone2.

4) Who cares if the graphics look just like they promised...the game flopped!

5) Who cares if nobody hyped the gameplay and only the graphics?

5 years later:

6) OMG cows. Sony lies all the time. Remember Killzone and how it was nowhere near the E3 CGI video?

The devs never said it was realtime, but Sony did. So sure the devs didn't intend it to be a real graphical representation, Sony did...Wasdie

They did, implicitly. Why not correct Sony? They were there, after all? Why not claim it was a misunderstanding of Sony's statements?

They agreed and basked in the hype.

The haters are going to get owned.  "Wait.  Just watch."  Hehe I really do hope it does good though.  PS3 will get some much more respect.  Actually, it would get more hate, but whatever.

Of course Killzone devs will shut up the critics! The original was massively underrated, it was far better than alo + Halo 2 put together, so Killzone 2 should own completely... Let's hope it turns out thta way.ShmenonPie

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

I just skimmed, but are they trying to say they'll match their target render?

Doesn't matter if they had better graphics than Gears or any next gen game out there, if the game sucks overall, it won't be fun. Guerilla hasn't proven that they make quality games by GS's records.

ragrdoll21

Owned.

Makes sense to me. If they even come close to the E3 05 trailer, I will be fairly impressed. I need to see some gameplay before I, or anyone else, can make a judgement of the game.

WOWOMGZORS!!!1!1!! Public beta coming. Woot!

Of course, all that wall of text is shot down to the ground with the simple fact that Sony (and Guerrilla) claimed it was gameplay. Not a "Tech Demo" (can you even have a prerendered tech demo? isn't that a contradiction?), and not a "proof of concept". The trailer was hyped as real gameplay, and was designed and directed in such a way as to purposely give that impression.

Grive

The proof is in the pudding, they can tell us how awesome Killzone2 will be all they wantbut it's just hot air until they show something to back it up.

I have a feeling that the CGI trailer will come back to haunt them, after the overblown response to it they will have to produce something magical to avoid humiliation. This is why "target render" CGI videos have to be properly labelled as "NOT IN-GAME FOOTAGE", because otherwise you end up tricking the gullible masses into thinking that your game is going to be far more amazing that it actually will be. Something a lot of devs working with Sony don't seem to have worked out yet.

[QUOTE="Grive"]

Of course, all that wall of text is shot down to the ground with the simple fact that Sony (and Guerrilla) claimed it was gameplay. Not a "Tech Demo" (can you even have a prerendered tech demo? isn't that a contradiction?), and not a "proof of concept". The trailer was hyped as real gameplay, and was designed and directed in such a way as to purposely give that impression.

diggyzoom

Not true. There's an interview on G4 somewhere where a Sony or Guerilla rep explicitly states it was running in "real-time."

[QUOTE="diggyzoom"][QUOTE="Grive"]

Of course, all that wall of text is shot down to the ground with the simple fact that Sony (and Guerrilla) claimed it was gameplay. Not a "Tech Demo" (can you even have a prerendered tech demo? isn't that a contradiction?), and not a "proof of concept". The trailer was hyped as real gameplay, and was designed and directed in such a way as to purposely give that impression.

-Beowulf

Not true. There's an interview on G4 somewhere where a Sony or Guerilla rep explicitly states it was running in "real-time."

Ohhhhh, I get it, It was not their fault for showing a CGI movie and letting everyone believe it was gameplay...It was all OUR FAULT for misunderstanding the situation.

Am I the only one here that believes we have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg backpedaling by the devs on this one before they have to show KZ2 at E3?

One of the person in the forum ... i think he made a good point .. the whole purpose of the trailer was to show the sense of fasta paced combat and not how the game will look like.peppeaccardo

Yeah and Sony should have come out with that when the media asked instead of being so tight lipped, good hype manouver though.

Ohhhhh, I get it, It was not their fault for showing a CGI movie and letting everyone believe it was gameplay...It was all OUR FAULT for misunderstanding the situation.

Am I the only one here that believes we have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg backpedaling by the devs on this one before they have to showKZ2 at E3?

Riverwolf007

Yes they are resetting expecations. They want to lower the bar so when they show it they'll get the "Wow!", but most will still compre to the fake-real-time crap they showed 2 years ago.

I'm sure it will look good, but keep in mind they are probably going to lie again. Who knows they may even have it running on a "special" ps3 with a faster GPU to keep the framerate up as they show their demo. So I won't believe anything until I see it on the retail shelf and play it myself (or at least until other REPUTABLE people have played it on their own PS3).

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...Fool me thrice I must be a cow.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

Ohhhhh, I get it, It was not their fault for showing a CGI movie and letting everyone believe it was gameplay...It was all OUR FAULT for misunderstanding the situation.

Am I the only one here that believes we have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg backpedaling by the devs on this one before they have to showKZ2 at E3?

mikasa

Yes they are resetting expecations. They want to lower the bar so when they show it they'll get the "Wow!", but most will still compre to the fake-real-time crap they showed 2 years ago.

I'm sure it will look good, but keep in mind they are probably going to lie again. Who knows they may even have it running on a "special" ps3 with a faster GPU to keep the framerate up as they show their demo. So I won't believe anything until I see it on the retail shelf and play it myself (or at least until other REPUTABLE people have played it on their own PS3).

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...Fool me thrice I must be a cow.

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...Fool me thrice I must be a cow.mikasa

This is why I went 360 over PS3. Everything I saw at their press release and advertising screamed "you are a gullible moron!", but I disagreed.

Ohhhhh, I get it, It was not their fault for showing a CGI movie and letting everyone believe it was gameplay...It was all OUR FAULT for misunderstanding the situation.

Am I the only one here that believes we have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg backpedaling by the devs on this one before they have to show KZ2 at E3?

Riverwolf007

[QUOTE="mikasa"][QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

Ohhhhh, I get it, It was not their fault for showing a CGI movie and letting everyone believe it was gameplay...It was all OUR FAULT for misunderstanding the situation.

Am I the only one here that believes we have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg backpedaling by the devs on this one before they have to showKZ2 at E3?

SergeantSnitch

Yes they are resetting expecations. They want to lower the bar so when they show it they'll get the "Wow!", but most will still compre to the fake-real-time crap they showed 2 years ago.

I'm sure it will look good, but keep in mind they are probably going to lie again. Who knows they may even have it running on a "special" ps3 with a faster GPU to keep the framerate up as they show their demo. So I won't believe anything until I see it on the retail shelf and play it myself (or at least until other REPUTABLE people have played it on their own PS3).

Fool me once, shame on you...Fool me twice, shame on me...Fool me thrice I must be a cow.

they can say it all they want.

doesnt mean it wont flop (which it will)

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]The devs never said it was realtime, but Sony did. So sure the devs didn't intend it to be a real graphical representation, Sony did...Grive

They did, implicitly. Why not correct Sony? They were there, after all? Why not claim it was a misunderstanding of Sony's statements?

They agreed and basked in the hype.

Sounds like the devs are trying to back away from their earlier claims. it it doesn't look like E305...then they fail. we all know the gameplay willl be mediocre, so the graphics need to make up for a lot.mikasa

[QUOTE="mikasa"]Sounds like the devs are trying to back away from their earlier claims. it it doesn't look like E305...then they fail. we all know the gameplay willl be mediocre, so the graphics need to make up for a lot.Mandingo101

So are you saying the gameplay will be better than Gears, Halo3, or even resistance? if so, why do youthink so? What have you seen or heard that would give you confidence in believing anything other than mediocre?

[QUOTE="Grive"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]The devs never said it was realtime, but Sony did. So sure the devs didn't intend it to be a real graphical representation, Sony did...Mandingo101

They did, implicitly. Why not correct Sony? They were there, after all? Why not claim it was a misunderstanding of Sony's statements?

They agreed and basked in the hype.

Unlimited funds? You do know sony is laying off lots of people in their gaming units? Sure this guerrilla may not have been hit (yet), but they will be as soon as the game releases. But what on earth makes you think they have unlmited funds when Sony can't even keep existing people employed?

[QUOTE="Grive"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]The devs never said it was realtime, but Sony did. So sure the devs didn't intend it to be a real graphical representation, Sony did...Mandingo101

They did, implicitly. Why not correct Sony? They were there, after all? Why not claim it was a misunderstanding of Sony's statements?

They agreed and basked in the hype.

DriftMax wrote:duncanvk wrote:souledge474 wrote:wait till we see some more of GT5 before hyping it.Forza 3 will be out by then. yea,andbythenmaybeitwilllookhalfdecent

I just skimmed, but are they trying to say they'll match their target render?

Doesn't matter if they had better graphics than Gears or any next gen game out there, if the game sucks overall, it won't be fun. Guerilla hasn't proven that they make quality games by GS's records.

Edit: Ok I see that the PSP game actually did well here on GS.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/company/index.php?company=72509&om_act=convert&om_clk=gssummary&tag=summary;developer

but many of their other stuff looks very lacking... :( Also on GR no killzone game is AA either, but hey if they can make a great game, sure. I just have high doubts it could be anything "AAA"

yoshi_64

Lmfao now cows are saying the games going to suck what next??? the voice actings horrible

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

Ohhhhh, I get it, It was not their fault for showing a CGI movie and letting everyone believe it was gameplay...It was all OUR FAULT for misunderstanding the situation.

Am I the only one here that believes we have only begun to see the tip of the iceberg backpedaling by the devs on this one before they have to show KZ2 at E3?

Zero-G_basic

After all just ask any PS3 fan they will be more than happy to tell you what a "shooters only" console the 360 is.