Knight's Guide to understanding WHY Pc is superior
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I never once said you couldn't.
[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]
It then went into, saying that if you built a 600 dollar computer now you would have to upgrade in 6 months.
jedikevin2
This is what I have been sayign all along.
It is fairely unlikly someone in 2007 could have built a 500 dollar computer that was faster then a console at thatr time. It is still possible though that frugil shopper PC's could have.
jedikevin2
Only cards in 2007 that were more powerful than the conosles were the G80 series with the 8600gt being the cheapest you could have gotten and the only more powerful CPUs at the time were expensive Pentium or AMD single core processors or extremely expensive dual core processors. You tack on a case, overpriced ram ($100 for 2 gigs at the time), a powersupply, CD drive, motherboard, and a operating system, even if you got stuff on sale you would never have built a PC for $600 that could hold up to todays PCs (NEVER said anything about consoles, I don't know where you guys are thinking i'm arguing in favor of the consoles here)
MY pc's evolution in tha timeframe did not push that argument while being under 500 dollars at the beginning. Even though my price has now gone up to 600
When we look at PC gaming, many misconceptions exist. Mny members on the gme front have been indoctrinated into a believe that the PC has no games, PC is dead, cost of a PC is positivily over the 1200+ grand price tag. These are all complete fallacies built on ignorance, fallacies, and bad understanding of the platform.
jedikevin2
I've never once in this thread you could NOT build a PC for $600. I just said if you're going to, it will NOT hold up in 6 months to the modern PC games. Hell it wouldn't even beable to run the current games at decent resoltuions at high settings.
This WHOLE thread I've just been saying that if you want to build a rig that you don't have to worry about upgrading, you need to spend some cash. I've been saying that for the NON PC gamer that PC gaming is a very expensive, yet worth it, investment.
Where ANY of you have once thought I was saying "buy a console" (aside from the whole, build a $600 PC that can only rival a $200 console, you may as well just buy the console argument) over a PC has been spinning my words and adding your own. I've only been tring to tell everybody that the dream of a $600 gaming PC for a non gamer who has NO extra parts, is just that, a dream. In the real world, it costs much more to get into PC gaming if you do not already own the parts you need which is the case for most console gamers who use a family PC or a laptop.
How you can build a brand new PC with an operating system, case, and monitor (assuming you can just aquire a keyboard and mouse) for $600 and beable to max any current game and NOT have to upgrade in 6 months or a year, is way beyond me.
I've been only going off of real life experiances with many different people and my years here at the forums. these theoritcal dream machines live on the forums and nowhere else.
Please read my first post on the first page. I never one said most of what you're claming I have.
If he is a PC gamer but doesn't know that a PC can run on a TV then I will be worried.[QUOTE="CentricStorm"][QUOTE="Sandvichman"]Did you just call wasdie a console fanboy? :lol: Wasdie
Nobody outside of these game boards would build a $600 PC just to play on their TV. People usually already own TVs and if they don't, I doubt they are going to say that I bought a TV just for gaming which we all know is not true. People who are building PCs usually need everything as they usually only have a laptop or some crappy hand-me-down PC from their family if they have their own at all.
Perhaps you have limited real world experiance with the average person? Pretty much everything you've said in this thread only applies to the "hardcore" PC gamer. I have friends who've built decent rigs just to plug into there HD TV's
Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor? Hell even then, a lot of gamers would not want some old monitor, as their monitor for their PC. Also as I have said before, what if that monitor is attatched to a family PC that they cannot just take?
Every single argument that PC gaming is cheap in this entire thread has very little real world logic.
Everything I've based my arguments around has been from real life experiances. Nobody outside of these game boards would build a $600 PC just to play on their TV. People usually already own TVs and if they don't, I doubt they are going to say that I bought a TV just for gaming which we all know is not true. People who are building PCs usually need everything as they usually only have a laptop or some crappy hand-me-down PC from their family if they have their own at all.
Wasdie
1. Obviously not...
2. So nobody outside of these game boards would ever build an HTPC? :?
Also you seem to make a lot of generalizations which I would argue may apply to your life or experiences but it doesn't always apply to everyone else.
Also you passed by my post before towards the bottom of page 15.
Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor?WasdieJust me, and of course a few million other people who own a TV/monitor combo.
I have friends who've built decent rigs just to plug into there HD TV's-Snooze-Exactly. [QUOTE="jedikevin2"]When we look at PC gaming, many misconceptions exist. Many members on the a front have been indoctrinated into a believe that the PC has no games, PC is dead, cost of a PC is positively over the 1200+ grand price tag. These are all concepts built on ignorance, fallacies, and bad understanding of the platform. Now that many members get informed on the misconceptions, they are looking for other excuses such as the no AAAA argument or "no mainstream games. When gs editors state why there is not a AAAA, many members refuse to believe it or just continue there way over and over. The next inclination of "no mainstream games" is just another fallacy built on popular opinion with no proof to it being correct. Even lately, statements that PC gamers don't play through there TV is also incorrect. I've explained several times that I have my living rooms 37 in speptre hdtv hooked to my computer with my 19 inch monitor hannsg. Do I game on he living room tv? yes. I usually play all my racing games or games I want to use my ps2 controller connected to my pc on that screen. At anytime though, I can simply go to the nvidia contol panel and go back to my 19 inch monitor and sit at my computer desk and play. That is just me though. Offcourse it doesn'tr incompass all pc gamers but statements saying "pc gamers don't game on their hdtv's or don't sit on the couch to play games or are forced to always use Keyboard and mouse" is just horrible flame banter. This is ownage on an extreme level.
Um Wasdie, when I stated your name I was speaking to you. The rest of my whole point there was of generalizxation of what members here say and not you. The whiole "when we look at pc gaming" starts a whole new paragraph and is not pointed specifically to you. The statement above that was a quick synopsis of your statments.
Let me rephrase the 600 dollar statement. You stated that you cannot build a 600 dollar computer if yoy want to "max out" games. I'm a mid level gamer so I never "max out games" in the context you made.
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor? Hell even then, a lot of gamers would not want some old monitor, as their monitor for their PC. Also as I have said before, what if that monitor is attatched to a family PC that they cannot just take?
Every single argument that PC gaming is cheap in this entire thread has very little real world logic.
Everything I've based my arguments around has been from real life experiances. Nobody outside of these game boards would build a $600 PC just to play on their TV. People usually already own TVs and if they don't, I doubt they are going to say that I bought a TV just for gaming which we all know is not true. People who are building PCs usually need everything as they usually only have a laptop or some crappy hand-me-down PC from their family if they have their own at all.
NVIDIATI
1. Obviously not...
2. So nobody outside of these game boards would ever build an HTPC? :?
Also you seem to make a lot of generalizations which I would argue may apply to your life or experiences but it doesn't always apply to everyone else.
HTPC is not a gaming rig. You usually throw some really low budget GPU that can run movies at a HD resolution and throw a bunch of harddrives into it.
I can not believe some of the arguments in this thread. Power supplies don't last long? Really, no really? I'm yet to see power supplies from even the crappiest brands fail once on me over long periods of time. Of all things that are likely to break in a computer system power supplies are fairly low on the list. I've had motherboards fail though, which isn't good. On any account this belief that you can enforce your own idea of what PC gaming should be on others is absurd. Some people don't care about playing Crysis on max settings, for most it is not necessary. Most people can enjoy playing games at mid settings, that's why they are mid settings. This constant drive for the best possible parts at any one point in time has all ways seemed absurd to me, but if that's what some people want to do then fine. Just don't try and tell people that's the one and only way to enjoy PC gaming. It's this ridiculous belief that is beginning to tear PC gaming apart. I've heard so many people say they arn't willing to get in to PC gaming because of that, and I'm talking about in real life. Not all PC gamers should have to believe gaming is about the best possible graphics.
I'm starting to think that's all modern gaming is about, graphics and CoD.
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor?CentricStormJust me, and of course a few million other people who own a TV/monitor combo.
You really think that millions of gamers build PCs to play on their TVs?
I've met one in real life who has built a computer specifically for his TV and it was not to game on.
I think if there was millions, I would know a few more seeing I have tendancies to get involved with every computer geek where I go considering my job and place at school. In my 4 years of college and 4 years of highschool dealing with computers, I've never met a single person who bought a $600 PC, found a random OS and hooked it up to their TV.
I can not believe some of the arguments in this thread. Power supplies don't last long? Really, no really? I'm yet to see power supplies from even the crappiest brands fail once on me over long periods of time. Of all things that are likely to break in a computer system power supplies are fairly low on the list. I've had motherboards fail though, which isn't good. On any account this belief that you can enforce your own idea of what PC gaming should be on others is absurd. Some people don't care about playing Crysis on max settings, for most it is not necessary. Most people can enjoy playing games at mid settings, that's why they are mid settings. This constant drive for the best possible parts at any one point in time has all ways seemed absurd to me, but if that's what some people want to do then fine. Just don't try and tell people that's the one and only way to enjoy PC gaming. It's this ridiculous belief that is beginning to tear PC gaming apart. I've heard so many people say they arn't willing to get in to PC gaming because of that, and I'm talking about in real life. Not all PC gamers should have to believe gaming is about the best possible graphics.
I'm starting to think that's all modern gaming is about, graphics and CoD.
WasntAvailable
Can your old 450 watt PSU handle a CPU upgrade, ram upgrade, and a DX 11 card? That is where old PSUs don't come into play. Also what if you don't already own a PSU?
I'm not talking about upgrades here, I'm talking about new PC gamers.
My PC is plugged into a HDTV. Am i doing it wrong? Everytime someone mentiones that they don't like gaming at a desk a hermit rolls in and claims you can use your HDTV. Now i'm being told it's bad?
I'd say that hermits and consolites have both got it twisted somewhere down the line ...
[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]
I can not believe some of the arguments in this thread. Power supplies don't last long? Really, no really? I'm yet to see power supplies from even the crappiest brands fail once on me over long periods of time. Of all things that are likely to break in a computer system power supplies are fairly low on the list. I've had motherboards fail though, which isn't good. On any account this belief that you can enforce your own idea of what PC gaming should be on others is absurd. Some people don't care about playing Crysis on max settings, for most it is not necessary. Most people can enjoy playing games at mid settings, that's why they are mid settings. This constant drive for the best possible parts at any one point in time has all ways seemed absurd to me, but if that's what some people want to do then fine. Just don't try and tell people that's the one and only way to enjoy PC gaming. It's this ridiculous belief that is beginning to tear PC gaming apart. I've heard so many people say they arn't willing to get in to PC gaming because of that, and I'm talking about in real life. Not all PC gamers should have to believe gaming is about the best possible graphics.
I'm starting to think that's all modern gaming is about, graphics and CoD.
Wasdie
Can your old 450 watt PSU handle a CPU upgrade, ram upgrade, and a DX 11 card? That is where old PSUs don't come into play. Also what if you don't already own a PSU?
I'm not talking about upgrades here, I'm talking about new PC gamers.
Wadie, I hope you look more into his statements. He is saying something that I have tried to stress to you for sometime now. The whole "Most people....." section is a point I hope you can grasp and understand.
I still can't see how people could only go with a 600 dollar gaming PC, I mean it can last you for years, but you will only be playing a bit above console settings and you won't be able to enjoy the newer games in all their glory (of course if this doesn't bother you that's fine). Infact I'd venture to say no 600 dollar gaming pc can handle anything dealing with DX11 and maintain a reasonable framerate unless everything else was turned down (which is silly). But what must also be realised is that alot of gamers do not play at 1080p, I myself play at 1600x1200 so that, so a rig that lasts a while doesn't need to be 1k+ it can be around 800 or less depending on your resolution and level of graphics you can tolerate.
Personally if you have ever played the MP in console shooters, they look like garbage most of the time, especially bad company 2 and MW2.. after playing those on PC the console versions look so inferior. Some people may budget just to be above the console settings and that's fine, but when new games are being more detailed know that you won't be able to reach that level of detail, but you will always be above console graphics. Personally I like to see all the bells and whistles so I pay for it.
Just me, and of course a few million other people who own a TV/monitor combo.[QUOTE="CentricStorm"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor?Wasdie
You really think that millions of gamers build PCs to play on their TVs?
I think if there was millions, I would know a few more seeing I have tendancies to get involved with every computer geek where I go considering my job and place at school.
You see, there's your problem. Computer Geeks are not average people. they want to build the best of the best, and play it on the best. Of course they're not going to re-use old stuff, of course they're not going to game on TV's.
You'll probably find the average joe kinda PC gamer doesn't mind that much. I for one couldn't care less about a lot of things PC enthusiasts would consider a big thing.
[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor? Hell even then, a lot of gamers would not want some old monitor, as their monitor for their PC. Also as I have said before, what if that monitor is attatched to a family PC that they cannot just take?
Every single argument that PC gaming is cheap in this entire thread has very little real world logic.
Everything I've based my arguments around has been from real life experiances. Nobody outside of these game boards would build a $600 PC just to play on their TV. People usually already own TVs and if they don't, I doubt they are going to say that I bought a TV just for gaming which we all know is not true. People who are building PCs usually need everything as they usually only have a laptop or some crappy hand-me-down PC from their family if they have their own at all.
Wasdie
1. Obviously not...
2. So nobody outside of these game boards would ever build an HTPC? :?
Also you seem to make a lot of generalizations which I would argue may apply to your life or experiences but it doesn't always apply to everyone else.
HTPC is not a gaming rig. You usually throw some really low budget GPU that can run movies at a HD resolution and throw a bunch of harddrives into it.
:shock: Again with your generalizations... Saying a "Home Theater PC" is not a gaming rig is like saying a "PC" is not a gaming rig... Obviously the majority of PC's in the world are not built for gaming, but for internet use, work use, school use, media, etc. The fact is people do build high end PC's that they stick to their home theater.Geez, and some of the $600 rigs you guys got are absolute crap.
This is good:
http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?switch=20
X58 Mobo $79.99
GTX275 159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225
i7 930 250
http://directeasybuy.com/proddetail.php?prod=IntelCorei7-920
Corsair XMS3 ram 94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151074
Seasonic PSU 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
Cooler master case 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
1.5TB HDD 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Optical 23.99
Total Cost: 800~
Top quality components. This is a i7 Rig with the capability of playing 99.99% of games maxed out.
[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]
I can not believe some of the arguments in this thread. Power supplies don't last long? Really, no really? I'm yet to see power supplies from even the crappiest brands fail once on me over long periods of time. Of all things that are likely to break in a computer system power supplies are fairly low on the list. I've had motherboards fail though, which isn't good. On any account this belief that you can enforce your own idea of what PC gaming should be on others is absurd. Some people don't care about playing Crysis on max settings, for most it is not necessary. Most people can enjoy playing games at mid settings, that's why they are mid settings. This constant drive for the best possible parts at any one point in time has all ways seemed absurd to me, but if that's what some people want to do then fine. Just don't try and tell people that's the one and only way to enjoy PC gaming. It's this ridiculous belief that is beginning to tear PC gaming apart. I've heard so many people say they arn't willing to get in to PC gaming because of that, and I'm talking about in real life. Not all PC gamers should have to believe gaming is about the best possible graphics.
I'm starting to think that's all modern gaming is about, graphics and CoD.
Wasdie
Can your old 450 watt PSU handle a CPU upgrade, ram upgrade, and a DX 11 card? That is where old PSUs don't come into play. Also what if you don't already own a PSU?
I'm not talking about upgrades here, I'm talking about new PC gamers.
Apparently, just not to the very best of the best. If you want a MID RANGE PC that will allow you to play the best the PC has to offer it will never be a problem. Frankly I don't even know what you are talking about. I think you are confusing your own concept of what PC gaming should have to offer with what it should offer to everybody else. Your arguments only work if you accept that everyone who games on a PC is like you. A lot of gamers see most of the best the PC has to offer using older rigs, and they are just as happy as everyone else, and with more money in their pocket. When it comes down to it it's about being able to play exclusive PC games and enjoy them, and to enjoy multiplats at a higher level than consoles, and you do NOT NEED a high range PC to do just that.
Incidentallyif someone donsn't already own a PSU then that's what they get for wasting money on a laptop when they wanted to get in to PC gaming.
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Can your old 450 watt PSU handle a CPU upgrade, ram upgrade, and a DX 11 card? That is where old PSUs don't come into play. Also what if you don't already own a PSU?
I'm not talking about upgrades here, I'm talking about new PC gamers.
jedikevin2
Wadie, I hope you look more into his statements. He is saying something that I have tried to stress to you for sometime now. The whole "Most people....." section is a point I hope you can grasp and understand.
If your assumption that "most people" are cool with medium to low settings, and that "most people" are comfortable with PCs that are barely mid-range, why don't we see more PC gamers? Why if you can play your PC on a TV do we not see more PC gamers doing that? Look at most PC gamers. Most are cool with PC's that aren't "high-end". That's fine. A new PC gamer doesn't have to spend $2000 on a new PC to enjoy gaming. That's cool, that's what I've been saying.
What I have been saying is that even to get a decent PC that can play all of the games now and some in the future without having to upgrade in a few months you need to spend more than $600. Most people do NOT already have all of the accessories laying around. Most people aren't cool with hooking their TV up to their PC so they don't have to buy a montior. If most people were cool with it, we would see way more gamers doing it! I look out and see a very tiny percentage of gamers actually doing exactly what all of these cheap PC advocates are saying.
When people get into PC gaming they usually realize its going to cost them a bit more. Those $600 dream machines aren't real world performers at all. There is a reason why people aren't buying them in mass.
This notion that PC gaming is really cheap is beyond me. Even spending $500 is expensive.
Geez, and some of the $600 rigs you guys got are absolute crap.
This is good:
http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?switch=20
X58 Mobo $79.99
GTX475 159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225
i7 930 250
http://directeasybuy.com/proddetail.php?prod=IntelCorei7-920
Corsair XMS3 ram 94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151074
Seasonic PSU 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
Cooler master case 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
1.5TB HDD 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Optical 23.99
Total Cost: 800~
Top quality components. This is a i7 Rig with the capability of playing 99.99% of games maxed out.
Dynafrom
Boom, 800 dollar investment. A bit pricy, but you won't be upgrading any time soon.
Also there is no such thing as a GTX 475...
You didn't even include Windows... Your total before windows is $818.93, but you priced a "GTX 475" which isn't even a card on the market, and the GTX 470 is $300+...Geez, and some of the $600 rigs you guys got are absolute crap.
This is good:
http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?switch=20
X58 Mobo $79.99
GTX475 159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225
i7 930 250
http://directeasybuy.com/proddetail.php?prod=IntelCorei7-920
Corsair XMS3 ram 94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151074
Seasonic PSU 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
Cooler master case 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
1.5TB HDD 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Optical 23.99
Total Cost: 800~
Top quality components. This is a i7 Rig with the capability of playing 99.99% of games maxed out.
Dynafrom
If you want a decent build in and around the $600 range than these would work
UPDATE NEW BUILDS: (differences in bold)
$630 with rebates:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8713/630pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· GTX 460
· FREE: Just Cause 2
$560 with rebates:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1973/560pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· ATI 5770
· USB TV Tuner
If your assumption that "most people" are cool with medium to low settings, and that "most people" are comfortable with PCs that are barely mid-range, why don't we see more PC gamers? Why if you can play your PC on a TV do we not see more PC gamers doing that?WasdieMerely because we don't see them doesn't mean that they aren't there. After all, it isn't like either of us are going out polling the general public about this stuff. Neither of us really know just how many people are willing to do this. Whether or not people are willing to do it is largely irrelevant. We're basing costs on potential. People may or may not take advantage of it, but the ability for reduced cost is there. Why do we use this focus? Because we simply don't know how the population at large will react.
:shock: Again with your generalizations... Saying a "Home Theater PC" is not a gaming rig is like saying a "PC" is not a gaming rig... Obviously the majority of PC's in the world are not built for gaming, but for internet use, work use, school use, media, etc. The fact is people do build high end PC's that they stick to their home theater.
NVIDIATI
Yeah great some people do, some people have the money for that! Great. Awesome. Not what I have been arguing against.
I've been saying this whole thread that the initial investment to a total NON PC gamer who has no parts laying is going to be more than these $600 dream machines.
I really think that people who push these builds on new gamers are just trying to find excuses to pick PC gaming over consoles. Saying that for only a few hundred more you can have all the PC games and not have to upgrade, when these $600 PCs are junky and and barely perform to todays games let alone the future ones.
[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Can your old 450 watt PSU handle a CPU upgrade, ram upgrade, and a DX 11 card? That is where old PSUs don't come into play. Also what if you don't already own a PSU?
I'm not talking about upgrades here, I'm talking about new PC gamers.
Wasdie
Wadie, I hope you look more into his statements. He is saying something that I have tried to stress to you for sometime now. The whole "Most people....." section is a point I hope you can grasp and understand.
If your assumption that "most people" are cool with medium to low settings, and that "most people" are comfortable with PCs that are barely mid-range, why don't we see more PC gamers? Why if you can play your PC on a TV do we not see more PC gamers doing that? Look at most PC gamers. Most are cool with PC's that aren't "high-end". That's fine. A new PC gamer doesn't have to spend $2000 on a new PC to enjoy gaming. That's cool, that's what I've been saying.
What I have been saying is that even to get a decent PC that can play all of the games now and some in the future without having to upgrade in a few months you need to spend more than $600. Most people do NOT already have all of the accessories laying around. Most people aren't cool with hooking their TV up to their PC so they don't have to buy a montior. If most people were cool with it, we would see way more gamers doing it! I look out and see a very tiny percentage of gamers actually doing exactly what all of these cheap PC advocates are saying.
When people get into PC gaming they usually realize its going to cost them a bit more. Those $600 dream machines aren't real world performers at all. There is a reason why people aren't buying them in mass.
This notion that PC gaming is really cheap is beyond me. Even spending $500 is expensive.
I'm not saying "most" at all. I am saying their exist a big mid range gamer market. Would ATI or nvidia not release cards in this market if they didn't exist? If anything, the low end end pc gamer has exploded lately with all those casual farmville like games. Thats neither here or there though.
No, you don't need a 2000 dollar rig just as you don't have to have a 1000 dollar rig. a 600 dollar rig is possible and people can just as well build those and be satisfied. You ask why people don't play on their hdtv's? I cannot answer that. You would have to ask them. All I can tell you is that I do since its personal experience.
No one is forcing a notion that PC gaming could have a intial good build cost. This "600 isn't real world performers" is the problem everyone has been addressing to you. Whats not "real world" to you can easily be "real wolrd" to them.
[QUOTE="Dynafrom"]
Geez, and some of the $600 rigs you guys got are absolute crap.
This is good:
http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?switch=20
X58 Mobo $79.99
GTX475 159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225
i7 930 250
http://directeasybuy.com/proddetail.php?prod=IntelCorei7-920
Corsair XMS3 ram 94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151074
Seasonic PSU 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
Cooler master case 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
1.5TB HDD 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Optical 23.99
Total Cost: 800~
Top quality components. This is a i7 Rig with the capability of playing 99.99% of games maxed out.
Wasdie
Boom, 800 dollar investment. A bit pricy, but you won't be upgrading any time soon.
Also there is no such thing as a GTX 475...
My bad I meant GTX 275Just me, and of course a few million other people who own a TV/monitor combo.[QUOTE="CentricStorm"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]Who buys a PC without a monitor if they don't already own a monitor?Wasdie
You really think that millions of gamers build PCs to play on their TVs?
Weird...thought I said TV/monitor combo, not TV... I initially got this for console gaming, then later bought a PC and therefore didn't need to buy a monitor for it...there are millions of people who game like this.[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]
:shock: Again with your generalizations... Saying a "Home Theater PC" is not a gaming rig is like saying a "PC" is not a gaming rig... Obviously the majority of PC's in the world are not built for gaming, but for internet use, work use, school use, media, etc. The fact is people do build high end PC's that they stick to their home theater.
Yeah great some people do, some people have the money for that! Great. Awesome. Not what I have been arguing against.
I've been saying this whole thread that the initial investment to a total NON PC gamer who has no parts laying is going to be more than these $600 dream machines.
I really think that people who push these builds on new gamers are just trying to find excuses to pick PC gaming over consoles. Saying that for only a few hundred more you can have all the PC games and not have to upgrade, when these $600 PCs are junky and and barely perform to todays games let alone the future ones.
So a PC with a 5770 or a GTX460 "barely perform" :? Also the build you called crap was a quick mix of parts but if you care to look above this post both of the $630 and $560 builds are using quality brands and parts such as EVGA, OCZ, G-SKILL, ASUS, AMD, etc.[QUOTE="jedikevin2"]
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Can your old 450 watt PSU handle a CPU upgrade, ram upgrade, and a DX 11 card? That is where old PSUs don't come into play. Also what if you don't already own a PSU?
I'm not talking about upgrades here, I'm talking about new PC gamers.
Wasdie
Wadie, I hope you look more into his statements. He is saying something that I have tried to stress to you for sometime now. The whole "Most people....." section is a point I hope you can grasp and understand.
If your assumption that "most people" are cool with medium to low settings, and that "most people" are comfortable with PCs that are barely mid-range, why don't we see more PC gamers? Why if you can play your PC on a TV do we not see more PC gamers doing that? Look at most PC gamers. Most are cool with PC's that aren't "high-end". That's fine. A new PC gamer doesn't have to spend $2000 on a new PC to enjoy gaming. That's cool, that's what I've been saying.
What I have been saying is that even to get a decent PC that can play all of the games now and some in the future without having to upgrade in a few months you need to spend more than $600. Most people do NOT already have all of the accessories laying around. Most people aren't cool with hooking their TV up to their PC so they don't have to buy a montior. If most people were cool with it, we would see way more gamers doing it! I look out and see a very tiny percentage of gamers actually doing exactly what all of these cheap PC advocates are saying.
When people get into PC gaming they usually realize its going to cost them a bit more. Those $600 dream machines aren't real world performers at all. There is a reason why people aren't buying them in mass.
This notion that PC gaming is really cheap is beyond me. Even spending $500 is expensive.
Most people think they have to spend more than they actually do on PC gaming because PC gamers keep telling them so. If I truly could believe what you are saying I wouldn't have a PC I can play the newest games on. I'm British so I don't know exactly how $600 translates, but I must have spent about £100 on upgrading the system I already had to be able to play almost all games on the PC. The system which has been previously bought for £150. The monitor, maybe £120 odds, I don't remember because I already had one, you know, like most people who own PC's. These were good deals even now, I have to admit, but it's not as if they were once in a lifetime deals. There is very little you can do on your PC that I can't do on my own except from play games at a higher level, and play ArmA 2, but I'll be damned if I'm going to upgrade my system for one game I probably wont even like. If games were about graphics I would be bothered. The reason why people don't buy PC's to game on is because they don't know how much they cost. It's not accessible, and it's not simple to someone who know's nothing about PC's to be able to build a gaming machine on the cheap. Though why you would ever hook up a PC up to a TV aside from for media PC I really don't know, you're better off just buying a monitor if, for whatever reason, you don't have one.
Now with PC gaming you do have to upgrade every two to three years or so, but really, $600 every 6 months? Even for a top of the line gamer that seems insane to me. For most if you spent $200 every 2 years you could quite easily keep up. PC games, as far as I have seen, don't move half as quickly as the technology.
Fact: No 500-600 dollar PC will last more than 6 months.
Wasdie
You wrote a whole lot of truth which I agree with but you are being confusing here. Won't last 6 mnths because of what? Reliability? Being state of the art? Breakdowns?
I'm assuming tat you meant a budget PC won't be able to max games for more than 5-6 months. Which is a pretty strange notion in the first place if thats what you are implying.
In any case, it all depends on the needs of the gamer himself. What genre is he playing? Is being able to max graphics his/her top priority? Which is weird coz he won't be spending to buy a budget PC in the first place if max gfx is the point of purchase. But 500-600 PCs can certainly play games from med-high (or even very high, depending on games and its engine optimization). It certainly will look and run better than consoles, in general. The 8800 GTs are still widely used and from the accounts of many users on these forums, seem to be able to play latest games with pretty decent settings.
Thats the real draw of PCs. You decide how much juice it has, you can tailor your rig according to your financial ability and the amount of content from both official devs and user-created mods far outweigh anything the consoles have to offer, from current gen games to a huge back-catalogue of older games. Its that freedom for the user and if you really happen to urgently need to upgrade your rig, you certainly can later on.
If MMOs are your thing, you certainly don't need a state of the art PC gaming rig. A lot of games are pretty scalable anyway. And if ur a huge Blizzard fanboi, you certainly don't need a $2000 gaming rig. Include casual games or if your into games like Hearts of Iron or Sins of a Solar Empire.
You argue that if you aren't playing games in at least very high, there's no point. Why should that be the case? Why should I have to pay for a PC for work(almost everyone needs a PC at home) and then spend extra cash to pay for a console(s) and then some more for more expensive games, overpriced peripherals and a HDTV? When I can have a budget gaming PC that can run games better than current gen consoles and still be able to do most of the non-gaming stuffs people do on their pcs?
Again, its that scalability that the PC offers, both in terms of performance and according to your needs and financial situation, that makes the PC Gaming Rig worth the best in terms of bang for your buck, compared to all gaming platforms.
You didn't even include Windows... Your total before windows is $818.93, but you priced a "GTX 475" which isn't even a card on the market, and the GTX 470 is $300+...[QUOTE="Dynafrom"]
Geez, and some of the $600 rigs you guys got are absolute crap.
This is good:
http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?switch=20
X58 Mobo $79.99
GTX475 159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225
i7 930 250
http://directeasybuy.com/proddetail.php?prod=IntelCorei7-920
Corsair XMS3 ram 94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151074
Seasonic PSU 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
Cooler master case 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
1.5TB HDD 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Optical 23.99
Total Cost: 800~
Top quality components. This is a i7 Rig with the capability of playing 99.99% of games maxed out.
NVIDIATI
If you want a decent build in and around the $600 range than these would work
UPDATE NEW BUILDS: (differences in bold)
$630 with rebates:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8713/630pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· GTX 460
· FREE: Just Cause 2
$560 with rebates:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1973/560pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· ATI 5770
· USB TV Tuner
Nothing about these two rigs are any good compared to the one I posted. Mine has 3GB of ram, a very good case, 1.5TB HDD, and an i7. I could easily substitute lower end parts and make the computer < 700, but that would mean you'd have to upgrade at some point eventually. 2GB of ram? Seriously?
[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]
:shock: Again with your generalizations... Saying a "Home Theater PC" is not a gaming rig is like saying a "PC" is not a gaming rig... Obviously the majority of PC's in the world are not built for gaming, but for internet use, work use, school use, media, etc. The fact is people do build high end PC's that they stick to their home theater.
Wasdie
Yeah great some people do, some people have the money for that! Great. Awesome. Not what I have been arguing against.
I've been saying this whole thread that the initial investment to a total NON PC gamer who has no parts laying is going to be more than these $600 dream machines.
I really think that people who push these builds on new gamers are just trying to find excuses to pick PC gaming over consoles. Saying that for only a few hundred more you can have all the PC games and not have to upgrade, when these $600 PCs are junky and and barely perform to todays games let alone the future ones.
Yeah but theres not many people who are NON PC gamers that have no parts lying around. even my grandma who is a total NON PC gamer, has a 22inch 1680 x 1050 monitor, kb + mouse and a dell that cost $350 back in 2007 with vista already installed. Starting from that i'd easily be able to use the monitor, kb+m, dvd drive, 2gigs of ram, and the 320gb HDD with vista installed and build a decent machine with a $600 budget.
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
clyde46
Please go read system wars monthly may edition page 9. (System wars monthly may edition). I explained how my computer has evolved and yet it still came under console prices. Just remember consoles at its launch with the peripherals needed then then you can easily see how it can be cheaper. Thus, the argument that pc gaming can be cheaper then console gaming is not stupid. It s not what we have been addressing here though.
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
clyde46
No one is saying that it's cheaper than console gaming, it can be if you look around and get the best deals, but that's not the point. What people are saying is that you don't need to spend that much to in order to experience most of what PC gaming has to offer.Incidentally what is your rig?
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
clyde46
PC gaming is cheaper than console gaming, the barrier to entry however is not.
I am still not convinced about Consoles hitting 60 fps online.
Now I am a grown up. I work from home. I use a range of layout, graphics and other software in my work even though I am not a designer. I need a work PC. So the basic cost of the PC & Monitor gets knocked off the cost of gaming. I need a $600 PC. I have one. Upgrading to a mid range GC every so often keeps me happy.
I also like Console gaming. I have an Atari 2600, SNES, Megadrive and a Dreamcast. I also have a Wii, which sees a lot of play time as my other half loves platform games. I wouldn't dare call her a casual gamer as she is far better at them than I am as a PC FPS gamer. But she also enjoys casual games. As do I. As do a lot of PC gamers. I recently helped out a hardcore L4D2 clan player from central Europe with a copy of Peggle Deluxe.
I also play a range indie and emulator titles. Both on PC, Wii and my HTC Desire Andorid Device. Other half has an iPhone.
Oh and I have a Netbook which I play indie titles, legacy titles and the occasional Roguelike.
We are gamers. We like a range of games from different era's and on different systems.
The world of the HD consoles seems bizzare to me. It's like trying to talk about music with extreme metal fans. Can't see out of a particular bubble.
[QUOTE="clyde46"]
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
WasntAvailable
No one is saying that it's cheaper than console gaming, it can be if you look around and get the best deals, but that's not the point. What people are saying is that you don't need to spend that much to in order to experience most of what PC gaming has to offer.Incidentally what is your rig?
Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 4Gb of Corsair XMS2 Gigabyte EP43-DS3 Sapphire 4870 WD 160Gb Black Samsung 200Gb Spinpoint Akasa Nero Antec 900 And a dead WD 640Gb black.
i simply enjoy console gaming more and that makes console gaming superior for me
[QUOTE="clyde46"]
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
jedikevin2
Please go read system wars monthly may edition page 9. (System wars monthly may edition). I explained how my computer has evolved and yet it still came under console prices. Just remember consoles at its launch with the peripherals needed then then you can easily see how it can be cheaper. Thus, the argument that pc gaming can be cheaper then console gaming is not stupid. It s not what we have been addressing here though.
Maybe I should of put that PC gaming is more expensive to get into. Now I've made an arse of myself.[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]You didn't even include Windows... Your total before windows is $818.93, but you priced a "GTX 475" which isn't even a card on the market, and the GTX 470 is $300+...[QUOTE="Dynafrom"]
Geez, and some of the $600 rigs you guys got are absolute crap.
This is good:
http://www.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp?switch=20
X58 Mobo $79.99
GTX475 159.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115225
i7 930 250
http://directeasybuy.com/proddetail.php?prod=IntelCorei7-920
Corsair XMS3 ram 94.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151074
Seasonic PSU 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137
Cooler master case 59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136513
1.5TB HDD 89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204
Optical 23.99
Total Cost: 800~
Top quality components. This is a i7 Rig with the capability of playing 99.99% of games maxed out.
Dynafrom
If you want a decent build in and around the $600 range than these would work
UPDATE NEW BUILDS: (differences in bold)
$630 with rebates:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8713/630pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· GTX 460
· FREE: Just Cause 2
$560 with rebates:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1973/560pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· ATI 5770
· USB TV Tuner
Nothing about these two rigs are any good compared to the one I posted. Mine has 3GB of ram, a very good case, 1.5TB HDD, and an i7. I could easily substitute lower end parts and make the computer < 700, but that would mean you'd have to upgrade at some point eventually. 2GB of ram? Seriously? But your rig is missing Windows. A lot of people only have OEM versions of Windows which can't be installed on other hardware. That's $100 right there.That said, I think you can still build a great gaming rig for a little over $800. Even a pre-built rig, which I know is a dirty word for a lot of people; but if a newbie was planning to get into PC gaming, I'm willing to bet they'd rather someone else do all the hard work for them and take responsibility for making the system work. So I present a cyberpower rig, using their Mega Special II configuration [link]...
- CyberPower CX-9959 Lan Party Case w/ See-Thur Window
- AMD Phenom X4 955 Black Edition with Certified CPU fan & heatsink
- Asus M4A78LT-M LE AM3 DDR3 mobo
- 4GB (2GBx2) DDR3/1333MHz Dual Channel Memory
- NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 768MB
- 600 Watts - XtremeGear Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
- 1TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD
- 24X Double Layer Dual Format DVD+-R/+-RW + CD-R/RW Drive
- 600Watts PMPO Subwoofer Stereo Speakers, USB Keyboard, Optical Gaming Mouse
- 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Total Cost ~ $839 with free shipping and no tax. With the extra $200, it can make all the difference between a great rig and a so-so one.
UPDATE NEW BUILDS: (differences in bold)
$630 with rebates:
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8713/630pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· GTX 460
· FREE: Just Cause 2
$560 with rebates:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1973/560pc.jpg
· Case
· DVD Drive
· 550W PSU
· KB/M + Speakers
· AMD Quad Core Black Edition 2.5ghz
· CPU Fan
· AM2+ MOBO
· Windows 7
· 2GB DDR2 800
· 320GB HDD 7200rpm
· ATI 5770
· USB TV Tuner
NVIDIATI
Not a bad build. Personally, I'd probably make a couple minor changes if I was to recommend it to someone. That mouse is probably functional, but I think the little extra money for a good mouse is more than worth it (not just for gaming, but even just browsing the web). I'm not talking the latest and greatest, but something like the g500 ($40 after rebate). A good mouse is just more useful and will usually last a long time. I would also recommend going to 4GB of ram for Windows 7.
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
clyde46
Its true that to say a PC gaming rig is cheaper than console is not entirely accurate. They certainly have a higher start up costs but then you get what you pay for.
But i think alot of folks are also instead arguing that PC gaming is cheaper in the long run, through cheaper games. That certainly is true, if the gamer exploits the crazy DD sales extensively and is willing to wait a few months to wait on new games.
In fact, if gamers are willing to look for second hand hardware parts, it can actually be much cheaper. There's certainly risks involved but I've dealt in such trade before and so far, I've been pretty lucky to get reliable parts.
Really, you guys are STILL arguing about a 600 dollar computer?
Well.
This thread is EPIC.
[QUOTE="clyde46"]
I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
mirgamer
Its true that to say a PC gaming rig is cheaper than console is not entirely accurate. They certainly have a higher start up costs but then you get what you pay for.
But i think alot of folks are also instead arguing that PC gaming is cheaper in the long run, through cheaper games. That certainly is true, if the gamer exploits the crazy DD sales extensively and is willing to wait a few months to wait on new games.
In fact, if gamers are willing to look for second hand hardware parts, it can actually be much cheaper. There's certainly risks involved but I've dealt in such trade before and so far, I've been pretty lucky to get reliable parts.
Cheaper games is true but the start up costs and massive compared to consoles.Of course - PC gaming and console gaming are basically the same price. But adding surround sound in to the equation completely changes the story. It is a lot cheaper to get surround sound set up for a gaming PC than it is for an Xbox 360 or PS3 because of the added necessity of having a system with a Dolby Digital decoder for the consoles because they only have digital outputs (optical S/PDIF), not analogue connectors (triple 3.5mm jacks). Surround sound costs at least $100 more on consoles, more likely closer to a $200 premium.I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
clyde46
[QUOTE="clyde46"]Of course - PC gaming and console gaming are basically the same price. But adding surround sound in to the equation completely changes the story. It is a lot cheaper to get surround sound set up for a gaming PC than it is for an Xbox 360 or PS3 because of the added necessity of having a system with a Dolby Digital decoder for the consoles because they only have digital outputs (optical S/PDIF), not analogue connectors (triple 3.5mm jacks). Surround sound costs at least $100 more on consoles, more likely closer to a $200 premium. yes granted a decent home cinema kit will cost a lot, but you can buy 5.1 surround sets for £40-50. And that argument can just as easily be applied to the PC. You can spend stupid amounts getting a good surround set for PC.I built my PC back in 2009, it cost me £550. Now, that did NOT include an OS, KB/M and monitor. I will defend pc gaming all the way to the hilt but to say that PC gaming is cheaper an console gaming is stupid.
CentricStorm
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