Lemmings come back down to earth for a second, let me school you.

why are Ebay sales up BEFORE Sony has even had their showing?ZIMdoom

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

The real facts...MS never had a 10 million unit lead, the ps3 was newly launched, the ps3 and 360 sold very close to the same last year dspite Sony's price drops, the 360 lost 3 out of 5 this year in NA I believe.

Maybe Rockband has more to do with the fact that 80% of music game downloads were done on LIVE, according to MS?

ZIMdoom

So MS didn't sell 10 million consoles their first year? The year they were the only "next-gen" console out?

And check your NPD data. The PS3 has won 4/5 months so far and will allegedly win June as well.

As for Rockband, I have no reason to doubt your numbers there. But why only 60 day exclusivity then? Just enough of a window for MS to have exclusivity over the holidays? I am assuming Rock Band is coming out at the end of this year for 360.

MS announced 10 million units after a year and 2 months. They included an extra holiday season, in which they sold a lot of units. A small point, but I thought it should be noted. The lead was only around 7 or 8 million when ps3 launched.

I will double check the data, but I could swear MS won twice this year. The bigger point is that no month this year had a big enough lead for either maker to brag about.

Lastly, my theory on Rockband is simply that EA knows they will finish 360's 1st since it is easier to program, and felt it didn't make sense to miss the holiday so they are going to get that out, then finish up the ps3's.

[QUOTE="NightMare63"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"] Do you honestly believe that the only game keeping people from buying a 360 was FF13? ZIMdoom

I don't believe everything that people say on the net...especially coming from fanboy gaming forums.

FF13 was the straw that broke my back as far as buying a ps3 while owning my own 360. I will not buy a 360 for MGS, Resistance 2, and an unreliable KZ2 while I am able to simply get FF13 on the 360.

But that only proves my point. YOU have already made up your mind on which console is for you. Therefore, essentially, your decision NOW not to get a PS3 is totally irrelevant. People like you (or me) only make up a very small portion of the market.

What Sony and MS care about are NEW users that continually come into this new gen. By making FF13 multiplat, MS hasn't really gained anything so much as taken something away from Sony. Ff13 has gone from a reason to buy one console over another, to just another multiplat.

If BurgerKing managed (somehow) to legally sell the "Big Mac", and primary sandwich was the reason or even PART of the reason that "X" number of customers chose McDonalds, and now that "X" was evenly split between them (a stretch analogy I know, but just bear with me for the sake of argument)... HOW is this not a victory for BK AT THE SAME TIME as a loss for McDonalds?

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

So while we can argue that losing FF exclusivity is one less reason to buy a PS3, it is difficult to say a multiplat title is a reason to chose the 360 over the PS3.

JPOBS

Surely you can see the fanboy thinking in assuming your opinion is a fact that everyone agrees with?

I honestly loved the hell out of UNcharted and Heavenly Sword. I enjoyed Motorstorm and have been a huge Disagaea fan. Millions of people love Gran Turismo. I look forward to sequals to these games as well as to exclusives like God of War 3, Socom, twisted metal, White Knight, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, anything from Team Ico, Infamous, etc.

So simply saying, "PS3 has no games" is a fanboy arguement that won't go anywhere. He has his opinion and I have mine.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="NightMare63"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"] Do you honestly believe that the only game keeping people from buying a 360 was FF13? dsmccracken

I don't believe everything that people say on the net...especially coming from fanboy gaming forums.

FF13 was the straw that broke my back as far as buying a ps3 while owning my own 360. I will not buy a 360 for MGS, Resistance 2, and an unreliable KZ2 while I am able to simply get FF13 on the 360.

But that only proves my point. YOU have already made up your mind on which console is for you. Therefore, essentially, your decision NOW not to get a PS3 is totally irrelevant. People like you (or me) only make up a very small portion of the market.

What Sony and MS care about are NEW users that continually come into this new gen. By making FF13 multiplat, MS hasn't really gained anything so much as taken something away from Sony. Ff13 has gone from a reason to buy one console over another, to just another multiplat.

If BurgerKing managed (somehow) to legally sell the "Big Mac", and primary sandwich was the reason or even PART of the reason that "X" number of customers chose McDonalds, and now that "X" was evenly split between them (a stretch analogy I know, but just bear with me for the sake of argument)... HOW is this not a victory for BK AT THE SAME TIME as a loss for McDonalds?

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If it had ALWAYS been multiplat, there would be minimal benefit. However, up until yesterday, FF was one of the main pillars of the PS3. So the benefit to the 360 is not from a game that is now multiplat PER SE, but from the subtraction of that game as an exclusive from the PS3. How can you think that is minimal? Would Halo, had it been multiplat, have been of "minimal" benefit to Sony?

I know you think you are being logical and reasonable, but you can't minimize or spin this.

dsmccracken

Man, lemmings are terrible at "getting it".

I have never once minimized the impact on Sony losing an exclusive. I have said numerous times, in this thread even, that this is a big announcement and a blow to Sony.

The lack of logic is lemmings acting like a game going multiplat means Sony is dead and everyone is now going to run out and buy a 360. That makes ZERO sense.

FF 13 was an advantage to Sony as an exclusive title. Losing it as an exclusive is losing ONE advantage Sony had. That is bad. But to act like this is AMAZING for MS is to actually believe that there are a ton of people out there who were ONLY considering buing a PS3 for that one game, and now that game is multiplat, they will buy a 360 instead. There is ZERO proof of this.

I am in no way minimizing or spinning the impact on Sony's line up. But it is completely illogical to assume that everything bad for Sony is to MS's benefit. Like I've said, I see very little benefit for any console to get a multiplat because people don't base their console buying decisions on multiplats.

So while we can argue that losing FF exclusivity is one less reason to buy a PS3, it is difficult to say a multiplat title is a reason to chose the 360 over the PS3.

You are the only one "not getting it." See, I DO get what you are saying, but I think you are wrong and I don't agree. You seem to think that if I don't agree with you, I therefore can't possibly comprehend what you are saying because if I did, I'd be in your corner! Uh... no.

I don't think this one game means that no one is going to go PS3 anymore (though it will mean that for some), but it along with other blows like DMC4 and GTA can't HELP but be having a cumulative effect on the console purchase decision. Especially a game as central to the PS identity as FF.

It's not like these are some distant unrelated companies. A loss for Samsung is not much of a gain for Coca Cola, but a loss for Sony in regards to exclusives, WHICH ARE THE SINGLE ACKNOWLEDGED BIGGEST FACTOR WHEN CHOOSING CONSOLES, is most certainly a win for MS.

Still waiting for rebuttal.

So simply saying, "PS3 has no games" is a fanboy arguement that won't go anywhere. He has his opinion and I have mine.

ZIMdoom

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If it had ALWAYS been multiplat, there would be minimal benefit. However, up until yesterday, FF was one of the main pillars of the PS3. So the benefit to the 360 is not from a game that is now multiplat PER SE, but from the subtraction of that game as an exclusive from the PS3. How can you think that is minimal? Would Halo, had it been multiplat, have been of "minimal" benefit to Sony?

I know you think you are being logical and reasonable, but you can't minimize or spin this.

ZIMdoom

Man, lemmings are terrible at "getting it".

I have never once minimized the impact on Sony losing an exclusive. I have said numerous times, in this thread even, that this is a big announcement and a blow to Sony.

The lack of logic is lemmings acting like a game going multiplat means Sony is dead and everyone is now going to run out and buy a 360. That makes ZERO sense.

FF 13 was an advantage to Sony as an exclusive title. Losing it as an exclusive is losing ONE advantage Sony had. That is bad. But to act like this is AMAZING for MS is to actually believe that there are a ton of people out there who were ONLY considering buing a PS3 for that one game, and now that game is multiplat, they will buy a 360 instead. There is ZERO proof of this.

I am in no way minimizing or spinning the impact on Sony's line up. But it is completely illogical to assume that everything bad for Sony is to MS's benefit. Like I've said, I see very little benefit for any console to get a multiplat because people don't base their console buying decisions on multiplats.

So while we can argue that losing FF exclusivity is one less reason to buy a PS3, it is difficult to say a multiplat title is a reason to chose the 360 over the PS3.

Sorry but it's *you* who's not getting it. In the past if i wanted to play Final Fantasy or Devil may cry I'd *have* to buy a playstation console. I'd not be able to get out of it i would absolutley HAVE TO OWN a playstation 3.

In the past if i wanted to play half Life 2, left 4 dead, Bioshock or any number of games that the 360 is sharing with the PC i'd have to buy a PC, I'd have to maintain it, upgrade it and keep it patched and up to date.

Now? Now i can choose to own a playstation 3 and a PC, sure. Or i can buy an xbox 360 and get the best of both + a handful of 360 exclusives.

I'm not being bold enough to claim the 360 shares all the PC games and thus theres no reason to own a PC but it certainly gets a fair share and it CERTAINLY gets more than the PS3. Sorry but if you're looking for a good all round experience you're going with the 360.

The PS3 has nothing much going for it anymore and it's getting less and less by the day. ;D

I honestly loved the hell out of UNcharted and Heavenly Sword. I enjoyed Motorstorm and have been a huge Disagaea fan. Millions of people love Gran Turismo. I look forward to sequals to these games as well as to exclusives like God of War 3, Socom, twisted metal, White Knight, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, anything from Team Ico, Infamous, etc.

So simply saying, "PS3 has no games" is a fanboy arguement that won't go anywhere. He has his opinion and I have mine.

ZIMdoom

For you, maybe. For the majority of gamers that at some point will buy a console from this point forward, how many do you think have even HEARD of WKS? Compared to FF? Right.

When M$ lost big key exclusives to the PC and PS3 (Bioschock, Gears of War, and Mass Effect), PS3 owners were posting "360 is dead" threads everywhere while 360 owners were rolling their eyes and saying "who cares". Fast fowarding, we are seeing the other side of the coin with these same styled crappy threads. Listen fanboys, and listen closely. It is simply good business moves to go multiplat and make up from all the high quality hollywood style production costs that these new games produce. It is a matter of making a profit in order to survive in the business world. Instead of trying to "own" someone on an internet gaming website, do some research before looking like a total a$$ clown to the gaming community.

PS3+Xbox360+Wii+PC = win

Lemmings+Cows+Sheep+Hermits+Fanboys= Fail

Class dismissed.

megaton3k

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Thepla"]

[QUOTE="Eclipse_V2"]Final Fantasy XIIIps3wizard45

Bioshock anyone on ps3?

Lol. That's hilarious.

Dude, Bioshock is old, We have already played that and moved on. Why would lemms care that you are getting a old game? If games go multiplait after a year of being exclusive to the 360, I dont care. By that time I have played it to death and will never play it again, there will be a new exclusive for me to play and a year later it can go to the ps3 as well.

If BurgerKing managed (somehow) to legally sell the "Big Mac", and primary sandwich was the reason or even PART of the reason that "X" number of customers chose McDonalds, and now that "X" was evenly split between them (a stretch analogy I know, but just bear with me for the sake of argument)... HOW is this not a victory for BK AT THE SAME TIME as a loss for McDonalds?

dsmccracken

Because, as I've already said, to prove that you have to prove that there are people out there who HATE McDonald's but only eat there BECAUSE of the Big Mac. Because unless they HATE McDonald's, then why would losing the Mac exclusivity cause all their customers to go to BK. That is essentially the arguement lemmings are making here.

Granted, it does give people one less exclusive reason to go there. Or maybe, if BK is closer you will go there instead for a Mac...but other than that, the average fast food customer has their habbits and their preferences, for one reason or another, and they are unlikely to change that based on one single item. I am arguing there could be an impact on McDonald's, but that the impact on BK would be very minimal. Both companies already have their brand, their image, their audience, etc.

I would argue that people who like Big Macs, like McDonalds as a whole already. Whether it be the prices, environment, or the menu as a whole.

Plus, I would also mention that BK has already released their clone of the Big Mac, which is identical in everything but name. I believe it is called the Big King or something?

[QUOTE="NightMare63"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"] Do you honestly believe that the only game keeping people from buying a 360 was FF13? ZIMdoom

I don't believe everything that people say on the net...especially coming from fanboy gaming forums.

FF13 was the straw that broke my back as far as buying a ps3 while owning my own 360. I will not buy a 360 for MGS, Resistance 2, and an unreliable KZ2 while I am able to simply get FF13 on the 360.

But that only proves my point. YOU have already made up your mind on which console is for you. Therefore, essentially, your decision NOW not to get a PS3 is totally irrelevant. People like you (or me) only make up a very small portion of the market.

What Sony and MS care about are NEW users that continually come into this new gen. By making FF13 multiplat, MS hasn't really gained anything so much as taken something away from Sony. Ff13 has gone from a reason to buy one console over another, to just another multiplat.

360 has the better library. unless you're interested in sequels to mediocre games (res 2, ms 2), god of war (not everyones cup 'o tea), and lbp (admittedly looks fun).

360 lineup is just so much more diverse and interesting, plus you have netflix now too and FF.

what's going to bring new users to the PS3 now? i can't see a single title in the next 2 years that will draw oodles of 'new users' in as you say.

simply put, the PS3 went from a logical choice last week - to an illogical one this week. the heaviest hitter (FF) is now multiplat, and it's arguably the title that had the most appeal for attracting 'new users'. now people have to think is it worth to buy a PS3 now? imo it's totally not, given that many of the titles people are looking forward to could go multiplat in the near future.

either way, continue *grabs popcorn*

all it means is that Lemmings and Hermits get to play Mass Effect, Geow etc and Cows dont

Both Cows and Lemmings can play FF13 and Devil May Cry 4

vicmackey39

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

I honestly loved the hell out of UNcharted and Heavenly Sword. I enjoyed Motorstorm and have been a huge Disagaea fan. Millions of people love Gran Turismo. I look forward to sequals to these games as well as to exclusives like God of War 3, Socom, twisted metal, White Knight, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, anything from Team Ico, Infamous, etc.

So simply saying, "PS3 has no games" is a fanboy arguement that won't go anywhere. He has his opinion and I have mine.

dsmccracken

For you, maybe. For the majority of gamers that at some point will buy a console from this point forward, how many do you think have even HEARD of WKS? Compared to FF? Right.

NOw who is spinning? You are just cherry picking one single example I gave in hopes of ignoring my main point.

Losing an exclusive to a PC isn't that big of deal.

Also FFXIII is the biggest RPG franchise, also one of the biggest PS Franchises, and the 360 OWNED PS3 hard w/ stealing it.

Bioshock was never exclusive.

ME and gears came out a while after to PC.

Console to console lost exclusives is bigger news, especially for big franchises, and if no one expected it.

FF13 will be on 360 now, which means I'm allowed to post CGI screenshots:

FFXIII being exclusive was Sony's ace card, that's gone and now they have no other game with the power to sell systems. The simple truth is Sony and Cows got served by MS and Square.

YOU GOT SERVED!

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

I honestly loved the hell out of UNcharted and Heavenly Sword. I enjoyed Motorstorm and have been a huge Disagaea fan. Millions of people love Gran Turismo. I look forward to sequals to these games as well as to exclusives like God of War 3, Socom, twisted metal, White Knight, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, anything from Team Ico, Infamous, etc.

So simply saying, "PS3 has no games" is a fanboy arguement that won't go anywhere. He has his opinion and I have mine.

ZIMdoom

For you, maybe. For the majority of gamers that at some point will buy a console from this point forward, how many do you think have even HEARD of WKS? Compared to FF? Right.

NOw who is spinning? You are just cherry picking one single example I gave in hopes of ignoring my main point.

the main one about denial and stuff? or am I missing some other argument?

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If BurgerKing managed (somehow) to legally sell the "Big Mac", and primary sandwich was the reason or even PART of the reason that "X" number of customers chose McDonalds, and now that "X" was evenly split between them (a stretch analogy I know, but just bear with me for the sake of argument)... HOW is this not a victory for BK AT THE SAME TIME as a loss for McDonalds?

ZIMdoom

Because, as I've already said, to prove that you have to prove that there are people out there who HATE McDonald's but only eat there BECAUSE of the Big Mac. Because unless they HATE McDonald's, then why would losing the Mac exclusivity cause all their customers to go to BK. That is essentially the arguement lemmings are making here.

Granted, it does give people one less exclusive reason to go there. Or maybe, if BK is closer you will go there instead for a Mac...but other than that, the average fast food customer has their habbits and their preferences, for one reason or another, and they are unlikely to change that based on one single item. I am arguing there could be an impact on McDonald's, but that the impact on BK would be very minimal. Both companies already have their brand, their image, their audience, etc.

I would argue that people who like Big Macs, like McDonalds as a whole already. Whether it be the prices, environment, or the menu as a whole.

Plus, I would also mention that BK has already released their clone of the Big Mac, which is identical in everything but name. I believe it is called the Big King or something?

Firstly, and most importantly... the Big King is a sham. Coincidentally, I had one yesterday, and it is NOT identical to the Big Mac. Whoever told you that has misled you. And the Big Mac is not just "one single item", it is the cornerstone of the McDonalds empire. Isn't there even a documentary? The Sandwich that Built an Empire, or something? Likewise, though less dramatically, FF is not just "a game." It is more important than that, even people who don't go in for RPGs would admit that, I'd imagine.

Secondly, I clearly state that not EVERY customer would go to BK... oh, forget the burger stuff. But not everyone, they'd split equally. No lemming is saying 100%, only you telling them that's what they're saying.

Let me ask you something, how can this be a huge loss, but a minimal gain? Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that you could quantify this. Let's say that the loss of exclusivity was a loss of... what? A million units? 500 000? The number doesn't matter, really, but that those losses go straight to the 360. Not to Bermuda, or a coffee maker, or the Queen of England, but directly to MS, because that's what we're talking about here, really. They can't go anywhere else. So isn't the loss EXACTLY equal to the gain?

When M$ lost big key exclusives to the PC and PS3 (Bioschock, Gears of War, and Mass Effect), PS3 owners were posting "360 is dead" threads everywhere while 360 owners were rolling their eyes and saying "who cares". Fast fowarding, we are seeing the other side of the coin with these same styled crappy threads. Listen fanboys, and listen closely. It is simply good business moves to go multiplat and make up from all the high quality hollywood style production costs that these new games produce. It is a matter of making a profit in order to survive in the business world. Instead of trying to "own" someone on an internet gaming website, do some research before looking like a total a$$ clown to the gaming community.

PS3+Xbox360+Wii+PC = win

Lemmings+Cows+Sheep+Hermits+Fanboys= Fail

Class dismissed.

megaton3k

bioshock was never exclusive to begin with

and everyone knew there would be a PC version of mass effect

i will give you gears

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If BurgerKing managed (somehow) to legally sell the "Big Mac", and primary sandwich was the reason or even PART of the reason that "X" number of customers chose McDonalds, and now that "X" was evenly split between them (a stretch analogy I know, but just bear with me for the sake of argument)... HOW is this not a victory for BK AT THE SAME TIME as a loss for McDonalds?

dsmccracken

Because, as I've already said, to prove that you have to prove that there are people out there who HATE McDonald's but only eat there BECAUSE of the Big Mac. Because unless they HATE McDonald's, then why would losing the Mac exclusivity cause all their customers to go to BK. That is essentially the arguement lemmings are making here.

Granted, it does give people one less exclusive reason to go there. Or maybe, if BK is closer you will go there instead for a Mac...but other than that, the average fast food customer has their habbits and their preferences, for one reason or another, and they are unlikely to change that based on one single item. I am arguing there could be an impact on McDonald's, but that the impact on BK would be very minimal. Both companies already have their brand, their image, their audience, etc.

I would argue that people who like Big Macs, like McDonalds as a whole already. Whether it be the prices, environment, or the menu as a whole.

Plus, I would also mention that BK has already released their clone of the Big Mac, which is identical in everything but name. I believe it is called the Big King or something?

Firstly, and most importantly... the Big King is a sham. Coincidentally, I had one yesterday, and it is NOT identical to the Big Mac. Whoever told you that has misled you. And the Big Mac is not just "one single item", it is the cornerstone of the McDonalds empire. Isn't there even a documentary? The Sandwich that Built an Empire, or something? Likewise, though less dramatically, FF is not just "a game." It is more important than that, even people who don't go in for RPGs would admit that, I'd imagine.

Secondly, I clearly state that not EVERY customer would go to BK... oh, forget the burger stuff. But not everyone, they'd split equally. No lemming is saying 100%, only you telling them that's what they're saying.

Let me ask you something, how can this be a huge loss, but a minimal gain? Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that you could quantify this. Let's say that the loss of exclusivity was a loss of... what? A million units? 500 000? The number doesn't matter, really, but that those losses go straight to the 360. Not to Bermuda, or a coffee maker, or the Queen of England, but directly to MS, because that's what we're talking about here, really. They can't go anywhere else. So isn't the loss EXACTLY equal to the gain?

1) McDonalds and BK are no longer the company they were 50 years ago when they had one or two burgers to rely on. They are now brands. Yes, the BigMac is part of that brand. However, once again, the only way to really say that BK would benefit from this more than "minimal" is to assume that a LOT of people who go to McDonalds, hate it, don't buy into the branding, and the only reason any of them go there is because BK doesn't have BigMacs. You have to assume that the customer vastly prefers BK, would easily go there instead of McDs if not for their love of the Mac. I submit to you, that while those people are out there, they are minimal. For the average customer, a Big Mac is a Big Mac and they will still go to McDs just because they prefer something else and its' not like they are losing out on the Mac anway.

2) Correct. No lemming is saying 100%. But by arguing about cows saying it won't have a huge impact, they may as well be. It certainly won't be 50/50 either I would argue.

3) Where is FFs biggest market? The asian market. Where is FF still exclusive to PS3? The asian market.

Second, you are assuming, once again, that there are a million or so people out there who are ONLY interested in a PS3 because of FF13. I'm talking new gamers...not 360 owners who have already made up their mind on which console to support. And if you believe that FF134 has so much weight, that IT ALONE, is holding off everything the 360 offers, then I guess that says less about FF13 than the 360 doesn't it? And I can't help that.

the main one about denial and stuff? or am I missing some other argument?

3picuri3

No...the one where you act like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, Uncharted, etc don't matter because we know little about WKC.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]why are Ebay sales up BEFORE Sony has even had their showing?Jandurin

Wow. Nice use of selective quoting to take something WAY out of context.

3) Where is FFs biggest market? The asian market. Where is FF still exclusive to PS3? The asian market.

ZIMdoom

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

the main one about denial and stuff? or am I missing some other argument?

ZIMdoom

No...the one where you act like God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, Uncharted, etc don't matter because we know little about WKC.

uncharted kinda flopped, sales weren't great either. Resistance 2 is a niche title imo, not a system seller. KZ2 seems destined to fall short of hype, and is the third shooter in your list. and finally we have God of War - might bring some new people in but based on sales for previous iterations that isn't a guarantee... and GoW appeals most to the sort of people that would already own a PS3.

either way, the 360 is a far better option now that FF is multiplat. far more variety in the upcoming titles that appeal to a wider range of players (and to gamers that like to play more than shooters and button mashers).

time will tell. but judging by the massive influx of people selling their PS3s on craigs / ebay in the last 24 hours ima gonna guess this hit Sony harder than you'd like to admit.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

3) Where is FFs biggest market? The asian market. Where is FF still exclusive to PS3? The asian market.

ReturnOfShinobi

this is truth, but it hurts his argument ;)

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

3) Where is FFs biggest market? The asian market. Where is FF still exclusive to PS3? The asian market.

3picuri3

this is truth, but it hurts his argument ;)

[QUOTE="dsmccracken"][QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="dsmccracken"]

If BurgerKing managed (somehow) to legally sell the "Big Mac", and primary sandwich was the reason or even PART of the reason that "X" number of customers chose McDonalds, and now that "X" was evenly split between them (a stretch analogy I know, but just bear with me for the sake of argument)... HOW is this not a victory for BK AT THE SAME TIME as a loss for McDonalds?

ZIMdoom

Because, as I've already said, to prove that you have to prove that there are people out there who HATE McDonald's but only eat there BECAUSE of the Big Mac. Because unless they HATE McDonald's, then why would losing the Mac exclusivity cause all their customers to go to BK. That is essentially the arguement lemmings are making here.

Granted, it does give people one less exclusive reason to go there. Or maybe, if BK is closer you will go there instead for a Mac...but other than that, the average fast food customer has their habbits and their preferences, for one reason or another, and they are unlikely to change that based on one single item. I am arguing there could be an impact on McDonald's, but that the impact on BK would be very minimal. Both companies already have their brand, their image, their audience, etc.

I would argue that people who like Big Macs, like McDonalds as a whole already. Whether it be the prices, environment, or the menu as a whole.

Plus, I would also mention that BK has already released their clone of the Big Mac, which is identical in everything but name. I believe it is called the Big King or something?

Firstly, and most importantly... the Big King is a sham. Coincidentally, I had one yesterday, and it is NOT identical to the Big Mac. Whoever told you that has misled you. And the Big Mac is not just "one single item", it is the cornerstone of the McDonalds empire. Isn't there even a documentary? The Sandwich that Built an Empire, or something? Likewise, though less dramatically, FF is not just "a game." It is more important than that, even people who don't go in for RPGs would admit that, I'd imagine.

Secondly, I clearly state that not EVERY customer would go to BK... oh, forget the burger stuff. But not everyone, they'd split equally. No lemming is saying 100%, only you telling them that's what they're saying.

Let me ask you something, how can this be a huge loss, but a minimal gain? Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that you could quantify this. Let's say that the loss of exclusivity was a loss of... what? A million units? 500 000? The number doesn't matter, really, but that those losses go straight to the 360. Not to Bermuda, or a coffee maker, or the Queen of England, but directly to MS, because that's what we're talking about here, really. They can't go anywhere else. So isn't the loss EXACTLY equal to the gain?

1) McDonalds and BK are no longer the company they were 50 years ago when they had one or two burgers to rely on. They are now brands. Yes, the BigMac is part of that brand. However, once again, the only way to really say that BK would benefit from this more than "minimal" is to assume that a LOT of people who go to McDonalds, hate it, don't buy into the branding, and the only reason any of them go there is because BK doesn't have BigMacs. You have to assume that the customer vastly prefers BK, would easily go there instead of McDs if not for their love of the Mac. I submit to you, that while those people are out there, they are minimal. For the average customer, a Big Mac is a Big Mac and they will still go to McDs just because they prefer something else and its' not like they are losing out on the Mac anway.

2) Correct. No lemming is saying 100%. But by arguing about cows saying it won't have a huge impact, they may as well be. It certainly won't be 50/50 either I would argue.

3) Where is FFs biggest market? The asian market. Where is FF still exclusive to PS3? The asian market.

Second, you are assuming, once again, that there are a million or so people out there who are ONLY interested in a PS3 because of FF13. I'm talking new gamers...not 360 owners who have already made up their mind on which console to support. And if you believe that FF134 has so much weight, that IT ALONE, is holding off everything the 360 offers, then I guess that says less about FF13 than the 360 doesn't it? And I can't help that.

1) I don't think it is about absolutes like you are framing the conversation. You actually think that the only time McDonalds would lose a customer is when that customer just absolutely HATES McDonalds? I think not. This is what I don't like about using analogies... even ones I brought up... now I'm forced to talk about freaking burgers!

2) "May as well" be is an opinion tainted by your personal filter. I can only go by what I read, and I'm not reading that.

3) FF is still exclusive to Asia, but might this be the last time you can say that, now? I think it's important to note that, since perception is so important here, and one of the biggest impacts is to perception... no longer will someone hear Final Fantasy and think simpley "Sony." That may not impact sales this gen, but it is important to point out.

Also, FF is pretty big outside Asia, too. I don't have the figures to hand, but you probably do. What are the total units sold outside vs. inside Asia?

Lastly, you know I don't think ONLY FF has this weight, I explicitly talked about the cumulative effect... well, pages ago, now.

[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"]

3) Where is FFs biggest market? The asian market. Where is FF still exclusive to PS3? The asian market.

ReturnOfShinobi

I'm pretty sure that Sony still has exclusivity in Japan.

When M$ lost big key exclusives to the PC and PS3 (Bioschock, Gears of War, and Mass Effect), PS3 owners were posting "360 is dead" threads everywhere while 360 owners were rolling their eyes and saying "who cares". Fast fowarding, we are seeing the other side of the coin with these same styled crappy threads. Listen fanboys, and listen closely. It is simply good business moves to go multiplat and make up from all the high quality hollywood style production costs that these new games produce. It is a matter of making a profit in order to survive in the business world. Instead of trying to "own" someone on an internet gaming website, do some research before looking like a total a$$ clown to the gaming community.

PS3+Xbox360+Wii+PC = win

Lemmings+Cows+Sheep+Hermits+Fanboys= Fail

Class dismissed.

megaton3k

FF13 was Sony's HOLY GRAIL. Sony's ACE BOOKU Sony's PRIDE AND JOY. Well you get the point. Sony has been OWNED PERIOD on this one buddy.

Besides those games you mentioned Well What system do PC gamers play those games on WINDOWS:roll:MS owns both.