Let's break down the PS3 Q2 sales figures, shall we?

You're still making assumptions given this thread has no such statements as you mentioned. You may assume whatever you like, but like I said, you'll never get anywhere like that. themyth01

And that I fail to see how TC is simply trying to educate the fair denizens of SW that sell-through and sold to retailers are not the same thing when he fails to make the distinction himself. Before trying to educate, he should probably learn.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

No you didn't. You simply quoted me and pulled out a figure which you still haven't posted where it came from, comparing VGchartz to Shipped units. If you feel that VGchartz should be discussed then simply say so. However it's clear that the OP is using tracking firms and not vgchartz.

We're discussing Q3 (non-fiscal) of sales vs shipped and how NPD and Media Create show that 360 has outsold PS3 for the last 3 months. If you check the chart that someone else posted above, which includes EU numbers, it further corroborates these numbers.

This one shows 360 outselling PS3 for the last three months:

Thanks to Blaze-Agent for the graph.

themyth01

Thank Neogaf for the graph not me. However we the trackers are still incomplete because they dont even track countries where ps3 launched and 360 don't exist or has not launched. Thats why we need WW shpping numbers because the shipping numbers clearly account for those other countries that are not tracked.

The difference is that outside of NA, EU and Japan there are much fewer sales and these items are considered luxury items, I know that for a fact in Latin America, since I've lived there. Prices are ridiculous and sales are rare even though there is a bigger population.

Also NPD don't track every retailers in NA, nor does Media Create Share, they are all just really good estimates. PS3 outsold 360 last quarter, and that's that. Are you saying Sony is lying about their numbers?

I know that for a fact in Latin America, since I've lived there. themyth01

[QUOTE="themyth01"] I know that for a fact in Latin America, since I've lived there. Jynxzor

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="Rage010101"]

Thank Neogaf for the graph not me. However we the trackers are still incomplete because they dont even track countries where ps3 launched and 360 don't exist or has not launched. Thats why we need WW shpping numbers because the shipping numbers clearly account for those other countries that are not tracked.

mystervj

The difference is that outside of NA, EU and Japan there are much fewer sales and these items are considered luxury items, I know that for a fact in Latin America, since I've lived there. Prices are ridiculous and sales are rare even though there is a bigger population.

Also NPD don't track every retailers in NA, nor does Media Create Share, they are all just really good estimates. PS3 outsold 360 last quarter, and that's that. Are you saying Sony is lying about their numbers?

Not nearly as many as the big three. You can check Sony's segment reports where they highlight which regions buy their products, here's the link:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/10q2_sony.pdf

Either way MS also sells in other regions and the 360 is cheaper. So what makes you think PS3 would sell more?

BTW I think you mean outshipped.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

It was your first defensive/offensive outburst, go back and read it if you want, totally uncalled for. I'm not the one getting defensive over the fiscal reports, I actually like reading the things. But if you still think it's about the FR, it just shows how clueless you still are.

themyth01

sorry but the burden of proof falls under you. please quote where i acted in such way. good luck trying to spin that one

again with the insults. do you realize how immature you sound when you call another person (im probably older than you) "kid"? anyway back to topic, just accept the numbers and maybe you'll stop being so defensive about this whole thing.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"] Proof? lol kid, I don't really care either way. themyth01

again with the insults. do you realize how immature you sound when you call another person (im probably older than you) "kid"? anyway back to topic, just accept the numbers and maybe you'll stop being so defensive about this whole thing.

its not whether i personally feel insulted by being called "kid" or not, its the fact that saying such a thing is an insult period. You sure dont act like an adult thats for sure. Please try to act mature if you're going to try and debate at an adult and coherent level. You actually do indirectly have a problem with the shipped numbers or else you wouldnt be in here constantly crying wolf.

Silly lems, stop damage controlling. All the energy you're putting into damage controlling should be put into telling Microsoft to stop ******* around. Get petitions up and running and demand new exclusive IPs that aren't called Gears, Halo or Fable.

Next year is looking grim and we all know that Kinect will do **** to turn things around.

Microsoft seem to have forgotten that exclusives are key. Timed exclusives, exclusive DLC content and "console" exclusives are only helping Sony's cause. Microsoft need to quit degrading their first party studios and start releasing inhouse developed 360 exclusive games, just like Sony are. Relying on 3rd party studios that seek to maximize profit is the wrong way to go.

At least MS are making tons of money, but as far as console sales go they'll end up in last place with their current choice of strategy.

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="Rage010101"]

again with the insults. do you realize how immature you sound when you call another person (im probably older than you) "kid"? anyway back to topic, just accept the numbers and maybe you'll stop being so defensive about this whole thing.

Rage010101

its not whether i personally feel insulted by being called "kid" or not, its the fact that saying such a thing is an insult period. You sure dont act like an adult thats for sure. Please try to act mature if you're going to try and debate at an adult and coherent level. You actually do indirectly have a problem with the shipped numbers or else you wouldnt be in here constantly crying wolf.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"] You feel insulted when being called a kid? wow ok. You still seem to think I have a problem with the shipped numbers which I've never had to begin with. lolthemyth01

its not whether i personally feel insulted by being called "kid" or not, its the fact that saying such a thing is an insult period. You sure dont act like an adult thats for sure. Please try to act mature if you're going to try and debate at an adult and coherent level. You actually do indirectly have a problem with the shipped numbers or else you wouldnt be in here constantly crying wolf.

if you say so guy. now calm down, take a deep breath, and dont take these numbers so seriously k

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

its not whether i personally feel insulted by being called "kid" or not, its the fact that saying such a thing is an insult period. You sure dont act like an adult thats for sure. Please try to act mature if you're going to try and debate at an adult and coherent level. You actually do indirectly have a problem with the shipped numbers or else you wouldnt be in here constantly crying wolf.

Rage010101

if you say so guy. now calm down, take a deep breath, and dont take these numbers so seriously k

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="Chutebox"] Sony can't just ship systems whenever they want. They have to be ordered.OneLazyAsian

I sent mine to Jack and he gave me $12,000,000. Quick cash baby.

Classic :lol:

Now I feel poor...

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"] You don't act like an adult either. It's funny how you don't follow your own advice, after 12 pages you've yet to realize that I've never had a problem with Sony's shipped figures, this alone shows how you had no idea what you were talking about. And shame on making more assumptions, they won't you anywhere. You can assume someone said something without that someone saying it, all day long, it won't change what's been said.

themyth01

if you say so guy. now calm down, take a deep breath, and dont take these numbers so seriously k

ya i know, you're the one disputing their accuracy...

Either way MS also sells in other regions and the 360 is cheaper. So what makes you think PS3 would sell more?themyth01

Because retailers ordered more PS3s WW by a healthy margin... for a 5th straight quarter.

Making the point that the financial data doesn't give the immediate sold to consumer number -for any console- is one thing. Common knowledge, and has been here for years, but whatever. Arguing that the retailers ordered 700,000 fewer 360s, but that the 360 still actually outsold the PS3 is silly, and to this point, unsubstantiated damage control. Common sense tells the average spectator that the retailers know their own market well enough to order the consoles appropriately overall. No "evidence" to the contrary provided here is comprehensive enough to overrule common sense. Especially 700,000 units of common sense.

[QUOTE="Jynxzor"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"] I know that for a fact in Latin America, since I've lived there. themyth01

This is getting really sad, lemmings :?

I mean, trying to disprove facts now? Seriously? I didn't realize you guys were so gutted about this.

This is getting really sad, lemmings :?

I mean, trying to disprove facts now? Seriously? I didn't realize you guys were so gutted about this.

EliteKitteh

You don't act like an adult either. It's funny how you don't follow your own advice, after 12 pages you've yet to realize that I've never had a problem with Sony's shipped figures, this alone shows how you had no idea what you were talking about. And shame on making more assumptions, they won't you anywhere. You can assume someone said something without that someone saying it, all day long, it won't change what's been said.

themyth01

Let if go dude that is how numbers have been accounted for since ever,when they gave the advantage to MS it was ok now that they gave it to sony some how is not and sony is lying,like MS would not do any wrong doing ever and sony is the big evil liar company,dude MS is one of the most sue company in this world for bad practises.

Leave it at that Sony sold more MS sold less the gap is 3 millions the end.

Firrst of All. NPD's are estimates. Secondly they dont (NPD)track every retailer in the nation, neither does media create, dengeki, or famitsu (i mention these 3 because they always track differently from each other and report different numbers, so there goes your accuracy)3, European tracking is hard to do (because even New Zealand counts as part of the Pal/EU/EMEA region). Plus Japan is not the only country where ps3 is sold in Asia. THey launched in Korea, Taiwan, Dubai, Africa, Thailand and a whole bunch of other countries that receive shipments but zero tracking, Your picture is incomplete. So is that of every other tracker. All we know is that the company ships what retailers wish to buy from them and thats that. Hence retailers by way more ps3's because the demand is obviously higher.

So please i beg of you. Stop the damage control and let it go. Its getting embarassing.

Why don't you do the same with 360 or Wii numbers? Is it because they sold less than the ps3? I believe thats the reason. The most expensive console outselling the cheaper ones. (Just imagine the numbers when ps3 drops to 199? They are selling at the prices of the xbox 360 at launch and pushing way more units

Blaze-Agent

[QUOTE="catfishmoon23"]

[QUOTE="OneLazyAsian"]

I sent mine to Jack and he gave me $12,000,000. Quick cash baby.

OneLazyAsian

You sold PS3s for $1,200 a piece? That's a 300% markup assuming the PS3s are 160GB. You ripped off Jack! Good job!

You wonder why Sony was in the red for so long? :P

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

Nobody is disputing the facts except the people saying it's sales data rather than shipped figures. You're right, Sony did ship more units for the last three months.

themyth01

You may want to check those quarterly reports again. As it stands MS has shipped 2.9 million more units. If Sony had shipped more units since release, that wouldn't be the case.

[QUOTE="OneLazyAsian"]

[QUOTE="catfishmoon23"]

You sold PS3s for $1,200 a piece? That's a 300% markup assuming the PS3s are 160GB. You ripped off Jack! Good job!

ianuilliam

You wonder why Sony was in the red for so long? :P

Sony has been losing money since the launch of the PSP.

[QUOTE="Rage010101"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"] You feel insulted when being called a kid? wow ok. You still seem to think I have a problem with the shipped numbers which I've never had to begin with. lolthemyth01

its not whether i personally feel insulted by being called "kid" or not, its the fact that saying such a thing is an insult period. You sure dont act like an adult thats for sure. Please try to act mature if you're going to try and debate at an adult and coherent level. You actually do indirectly have a problem with the shipped numbers or else you wouldnt be in here constantly crying wolf.

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="OneLazyAsian"]

You wonder why Sony was in the red for so long? :P

waltefmoney

Sony has been losing money since the launch of the PSP.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Sony has been losing money since the launch of the PSP.

ianuilliam

It will. But still, Sony lost A LOT more money this generation than Microsoft. According to this, they lost more money on the PS3 than they made from the PS2.

Im not gonna comment on who iss econd or third in this race etc.. Stock Market listed Companies cannot release false information or they face stiff penalties when they get found out ala the Enron scandal from 2001. Now this does not mean that the figures Sony & Microsoft & Nintendo release are not "massaged" The reason they use shipped figures is its the only real method of tracking they can have on how many consoles they have shipped to retailers. Obviously as many people have pointed out, this does not mean they have actually sold these Consoles to the end users, merely shipped to retailers.

A lot of companies sell products on what is known as "Sale or Return" and this process involves over shipping prodcuts to retailers on the understanding that if they are not sold by the retailer within a certain periodthey can be returned for credit. Now I would bet all three of the main console manufacturers do this and its also a good way to boost or "massage" numbers when a quarterly or EOY report is due. When the Consoles breach the sale or return date they get returned or usually the manufacturer will tell the retailer to keep them and send a new promotional sleeve to be put over the outer packaging such as a free game etc..

There is also many other practices used by retailers to get better deals from the manufacturer such as hedge buying which is the same principal as hedge funding. This is usefull if the product/service/commodity you want to buy is available at a good price or a lower than the usual price, you hedge your bet that we will buy XYZ console for the lower price even though we know we cant sell them straight away, because we believe the sell to retailer price will increase in the near future. Again this is a practice that all three console manufacturers probably partake in. The reverse is when there is console shortages due to high maufacturing costs or high exchange rates and less consoles are shipped.

Now its a lot more complicated than the way I have posted above but I have posted this in a way that I hope the younger members may be able to understand. Obviously a lot more practices go on than what I have listed above with many different methods but I will finish with the following statement, all three companies figures are accurate in that they have shipped that many consoles to retailers but they obviously have sold less consoles to the end users. The shipped amount is the maximum ammount of consoles they could have sold as you cant sell more than you have shipped!

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Sony has been losing money since the launch of the PSP.

waltefmoney

It will. But still, Sony lost A LOT more money this generation than Microsoft. According to this, they lost more money on the PS3 than they made from the PS2.

Anyway, this is way off topic for this thread, so let's get back on topic. Clearly the PS1 and PS2's 100 million plus sales were the result of Sony stuffing the pipelines. The Xbox probably actually sold more to consumers than the PS2 because 120 million of those 145 million ps2s are actually sitting in the same warehouse with all those ps3s that get shipped every quarter but not sold.

Im not gonna comment on who iss econd or third in this race etc.. Stock Market listed Companies cannot release false information or they face stiff penalties when they get found out ala the Enron scandal from 2001. Now this does not mean that the figures Sony & Microsoft & Nintendo release are not "massaged" The reason they use shipped figures is its the only real method of tracking they can have on how many consoles they have shipped to retailers. Obviously as many people have pointed out, this does not mean they have actually sold these Consoles to the end users, merely shipped to retailers.

A lot of companies sell products on what is known as "Sale or Return" and this process involves over shipping prodcuts to retailers on the understanding that if they are not sold by the retailer within a certain periodthey can be returned for credit. Now I would bet all three of the main console manufacturers do this and its also a good way to boost or "massage" numbers when a quarterly or EOY report is due. When the Consoles breach the sale or return date they get returned or usually the manufacturer will tell the retailer to keep them and send a new promotional sleeve to be put over the outer packaging such as a free game etc..

There is also many other practices used by retailers to get better deals from the manufacturer such as hedge buying which is the same principal as hedge funding. This is usefull if the product/service/commodity you want to buy is available at a good price or a lower than the usual price, you hedge your bet that we will buy XYZ console for the lower price even though we know we cant sell them straight away, because we believe the sell to retailer price will increase in the near future. Again this is a practice that all three console manufacturers probably partake in. The reverse is when there is console shortages due to high maufacturing costs or high exchange rates and less consoles are shipped.

Now its a lot more complicated than the way I have posted above but I have posted this in a way that I hope the younger members may be able to understand. Obviously a lot more practices go on than what I have listed above with many different methods but I will finish with the following statement, all three companies figures are accurate in that they have shipped that many consoles to retailers but they obviously have sold less consoles to the end users. The shipped amount is the maximum ammount of consoles they could have sold as you cant sell more than you have shipped!

ccagracing

Im not gonna comment on who iss econd or third in this race etc.. Stock Market listed Companies cannot release false information or they face stiff penalties when they get found out ala the Enron scandal from 2001. Now this does not mean that the figures Sony & Microsoft & Nintendo release are not "massaged" The reason they use shipped figures is its the only real method of tracking they can have on how many consoles they have shipped to retailers. Obviously as many people have pointed out, this does not mean they have actually sold these Consoles to the end users, merely shipped to retailers.

A lot of companies sell products on what is known as "Sale or Return" and this process involves over shipping prodcuts to retailers on the understanding that if they are not sold by the retailer within a certain periodthey can be returned for credit. Now I would bet all three of the main console manufacturers do this and its also a good way to boost or "massage" numbers when a quarterly or EOY report is due. When the Consoles breach the sale or return date they get returned or usually the manufacturer will tell the retailer to keep them and send a new promotional sleeve to be put over the outer packaging such as a free game etc..

There is also many other practices used by retailers to get better deals from the manufacturer such as hedge buying which is the same principal as hedge funding. This is usefull if the product/service/commodity you want to buy is available at a good price or a lower than the usual price, you hedge your bet that we will buy XYZ console for the lower price even though we know we cant sell them straight away, because we believe the sell to retailer price will increase in the near future. Again this is a practice that all three console manufacturers probably partake in. The reverse is when there is console shortages due to high maufacturing costs or high exchange rates and less consoles are shipped.

Now its a lot more complicated than the way I have posted above but I have posted this in a way that I hope the younger members may be able to understand. Obviously a lot more practices go on than what I have listed above with many different methods but I will finish with the following statement, all three companies figures are accurate in that they have shipped that many consoles to retailers but they obviously have sold less consoles to the end users. The shipped amount is the maximum ammount of consoles they could have sold as you cant sell more than you have shipped!

ccagracing

EDIT:incentment ->incentive

The thing about this though is that it is not a practice that can be kept up indifinitely. Sure, if you want your holiday quarter to look up, you could ship some extras. Then when they don't sell, they get shipped back the next quarter, or at the very least you have to ship less., rsulting in a good quarter follwed by a poor one. Instead we have PS3 shipping more than 360 in back to back consecutive quarters time after time. You can't keep shipping more than are selling consecutively without retailers having warehouses full of unsold ps3s.

ianuilliam

[QUOTE="ccagracing"]

Im not gonna comment on who iss econd or third in this race etc.. Stock Market listed Companies cannot release false information or they face stiff penalties when they get found out ala the Enron scandal from 2001. Now this does not mean that the figures Sony & Microsoft & Nintendo release are not "massaged" The reason they use shipped figures is its the only real method of tracking they can have on how many consoles they have shipped to retailers. Obviously as many people have pointed out, this does not mean they have actually sold these Consoles to the end users, merely shipped to retailers.

A lot of companies sell products on what is known as "Sale or Return" and this process involves over shipping prodcuts to retailers on the understanding that if they are not sold by the retailer within a certain periodthey can be returned for credit. Now I would bet all three of the main console manufacturers do this and its also a good way to boost or "massage" numbers when a quarterly or EOY report is due. When the Consoles breach the sale or return date they get returned or usually the manufacturer will tell the retailer to keep them and send a new promotional sleeve to be put over the outer packaging such as a free game etc..

There is also many other practices used by retailers to get better deals from the manufacturer such as hedge buying which is the same principal as hedge funding. This is usefull if the product/service/commodity you want to buy is available at a good price or a lower than the usual price, you hedge your bet that we will buy XYZ console for the lower price even though we know we cant sell them straight away, because we believe the sell to retailer price will increase in the near future. Again this is a practice that all three console manufacturers probably partake in. The reverse is when there is console shortages due to high maufacturing costs or high exchange rates and less consoles are shipped.

Now its a lot more complicated than the way I have posted above but I have posted this in a way that I hope the younger members may be able to understand. Obviously a lot more practices go on than what I have listed above with many different methods but I will finish with the following statement, all three companies figures are accurate in that they have shipped that many consoles to retailers but they obviously have sold less consoles to the end users. The shipped amount is the maximum ammount of consoles they could have sold as you cant sell more than you have shipped!

ianuilliam

You can keep it going fora certain period of time thoughand I think Microsoft has done this quite well until the recent console redesign as they needed to discount the older systems hence the need to ship less newer stylesystems, as you say only so many can be sold without having a full inventory sat in stores. I think the Xmas period will tell the tale of who has bigger demand. Both have Move & Kinect out and ample available stocks of consoles and when you also factor in the Call of Duty sales push both systems will get.

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="ccagracing"]

Im not gonna comment on who iss econd or third in this race etc.. Stock Market listed Companies cannot release false information or they face stiff penalties when they get found out ala the Enron scandal from 2001. Now this does not mean that the figures Sony & Microsoft & Nintendo release are not "massaged" The reason they use shipped figures is its the only real method of tracking they can have on how many consoles they have shipped to retailers. Obviously as many people have pointed out, this does not mean they have actually sold these Consoles to the end users, merely shipped to retailers.

A lot of companies sell products on what is known as "Sale or Return" and this process involves over shipping prodcuts to retailers on the understanding that if they are not sold by the retailer within a certain periodthey can be returned for credit. Now I would bet all three of the main console manufacturers do this and its also a good way to boost or "massage" numbers when a quarterly or EOY report is due. When the Consoles breach the sale or return date they get returned or usually the manufacturer will tell the retailer to keep them and send a new promotional sleeve to be put over the outer packaging such as a free game etc..

There is also many other practices used by retailers to get better deals from the manufacturer such as hedge buying which is the same principal as hedge funding. This is usefull if the product/service/commodity you want to buy is available at a good price or a lower than the usual price, you hedge your bet that we will buy XYZ console for the lower price even though we know we cant sell them straight away, because we believe the sell to retailer price will increase in the near future. Again this is a practice that all three console manufacturers probably partake in. The reverse is when there is console shortages due to high maufacturing costs or high exchange rates and less consoles are shipped.

Now its a lot more complicated than the way I have posted above but I have posted this in a way that I hope the younger members may be able to understand. Obviously a lot more practices go on than what I have listed above with many different methods but I will finish with the following statement, all three companies figures are accurate in that they have shipped that many consoles to retailers but they obviously have sold less consoles to the end users. The shipped amount is the maximum ammount of consoles they could have sold as you cant sell more than you have shipped!

ccagracing

You can keep it going fora certain period of time thoughand I think Microsoft has done this quite well until the recent console redesign as they needed to discount the older systemshence the need to ship less newer slim systems, as you say only so many can be sold without having a full inventory sat in stores. I think the Xmas period will tell the tale of who has bigger demand. Both have Move & Kinect out and ample available stocks of consoles and when you also factor in the Call of Duty sales push both systems will get.

i wholeheatedly disagree. The 360 slim launched on June 15. The quarter before this one. You would think that for months they have stopped making the older 360's whole making new ones. Hence the reason to ship more slims.You can bet that in Q4 (april to june for Microsoft) close to half of the consoles shippedduring this quarter (Q4 April-June for microsoft)would be Slims. Hence the reason why the previous quarter (July-Sept) has been the best for them thus far interms of shipping outside of their (Oct-Dec quarters). Going by what i stated here i bellieve that you can easily see that the ps3 has the ;larger momentum WW if they can still outship and most definately outsell the 360 in the quarter of right after the launch of the slim.

PS3 outsold 360 so all the lemmings are flipping out? Just wait till Kinect.

PS3 outsold 360 so all the lemmings are flipping out? Just wait till Kinect.

Gxgear

TL;DR

Of course, why should I? "Facts" from a fanboy on System Wars are less than useless. I'll trust the official numbers, thanks.

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

You may want to check those quarterly reports again. As it stands MS has shipped 2.9 million more units. If Sony had shipped more units since release, that wouldn't be the case.

ianuilliam

Once upon a time, it was actually a lot more of a hard-fought battle and there was a time when the 360 even managed to win worldwide.

By the end of September 30, 2006, Microsoft had shipped 6 million units. The PS3 had a really rocky debut and was hurt especially by not launching in Europe until March.

Until the $299 price cut, the 360 had actually technically been winning the worldwide battle.

Oct-Dec 2006 - PS3: 1.7, 360: 4.4

Jan-Mar 2007 - PS3: 1.8, 360: 0.5

Apr-Jun 2007 - PS3: 0.7, 360: 0.7

Jul-Sep 2007 - PS3:1.3, 360: 1.8

Oct-Dec 2007 - PS3: 4.9, 360: 4.3

Jan-Mar 2008 - PS3: 2.2, 360: 1.3

Apr-Jun 2008 - PS3: 1.6, 360: 1.3

July-Sep 2008 - PS3: 2.4, 360: 2.2

Oct-Dec 2008 - PS3: 4.5, 360: 6.0

Jan-Mar 2009 - PS3: 1.6, 360: 1.7

Apr-June 2009 - PS3: 1.1, 360: 1.2

PS3 shipments between October 2006 and June 2009: 23.8 million [link].

360 shipments between October 2006 and June 2009: 25.4 million [link] (31.4 million total).

----

But then when the PS3 dropped to $299, and the PS3 Slim launched, everything changed. Completely. And Microsoft could no longer touch PS3 shipment numbers, or even come close.

It provides a very convincing argument, I think, that the PS3's biggest problem was price.

July-September 2009 - PS3: 3.2, 360: 2.1 (outshipped by 1.1 million units)

October-December 2009 - PS3: 6.5, 360: 5.2 (outshipped by 1.3 million units)

January-March 2010 - PS3: 2.2, 360: 1.5 (outshipped by 700K units)

April-June 2010 - PS3: 2.4, 360: 1.5 (outshipped by 900K units)

July-September 2010 - PS3: 3.5, 360: 2.8 (outshipped by 700K units)

[QUOTE="ccagracing"]

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]The thing about this though is that it is not a practice that can be kept up indifinitely. Sure, if you want your holiday quarter to look up, you could ship some extras. Then when they don't sell, they get shipped back the next quarter, or at the very least you have to ship less., rsulting in a good quarter follwed by a poor one. Instead we have PS3 shipping more than 360 in back to back consecutive quarters time after time. You can't keep shipping more than are selling consecutively without retailers having warehouses full of unsold ps3s.

Blaze-Agent

You can keep it going fora certain period of time thoughand I think Microsoft has done this quite well until the recent console redesign as they needed to discount the older systemshence the need to ship less newer slim systems, as you say only so many can be sold without having a full inventory sat in stores. I think the Xmas period will tell the tale of who has bigger demand. Both have Move & Kinect out and ample available stocks of consoles and when you also factor in the Call of Duty sales push both systems will get.

i wholeheatedly disagree. The 360 slim launched on June 15. The quarter before this one. You would think that for months they have stopped making the older 360's whole making new ones. Hence the reason to ship more slims.You can bet that in Q4 (april to june for Microsoft) close to half of the consoles shippedduring this quarter (Q4 April-June for microsoft)would be Slims. Hence the reason why the previous quarter (July-Sept) has been the best for them thus far interms of shipping outside of their (Oct-Dec quarters). Going by what i stated here i bellieve that you can easily see that the ps3 has the ;larger momentum WW if they can still outship and most definately outsell the 360 in the quarter of right after the launch of the slim.

I think you have picked me up wrong a little bit. I meant that they already had a lot of older ****Elite and Arcade at suppliers which needed to be sold /discounted so as you rightly pointed out they wouldnt ship any more old ****systems and would start to produce new ****models. The older systems would get a good discount and the peeps that wantedthe new ****ystems would buy those so without doubt Micorsofts figures got a good boost. I honestly believe 100% that the PS3 is out shipping the Xbox 360 upto this point and a lot of 360 fans seem hurt by this! Japan is a big market for Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft needs to make inroads into it as based on media create figures there is approx 4 million gap which is a massivefigure to loose.I think itsreally good for the consumer that the fight is so close this gen and I honestly think with moveout and kinect coming both consoles can make inroads into Nintendo's lead.

There is so much Damage Control in thsi thread.

[QUOTE="Blaze-Agent"]

[QUOTE="ccagracing"]

You can keep it going fora certain period of time thoughand I think Microsoft has done this quite well until the recent console redesign as they needed to discount the older systemshence the need to ship less newer slim systems, as you say only so many can be sold without having a full inventory sat in stores. I think the Xmas period will tell the tale of who has bigger demand. Both have Move & Kinect out and ample available stocks of consoles and when you also factor in the Call of Duty sales push both systems will get.

ccagracing

i wholeheatedly disagree. The 360 slim launched on June 15. The quarter before this one. You would think that for months they have stopped making the older 360's whole making new ones. Hence the reason to ship more slims.You can bet that in Q4 (april to june for Microsoft) close to half of the consoles shippedduring this quarter (Q4 April-June for microsoft)would be Slims. Hence the reason why the previous quarter (July-Sept) has been the best for them thus far interms of shipping outside of their (Oct-Dec quarters). Going by what i stated here i bellieve that you can easily see that the ps3 has the ;larger momentum WW if they can still outship and most definately outsell the 360 in the quarter of right after the launch of the slim.

I think you have picked me up wrong a little bit. I meant that they already had a lot of older ****Elite and Arcade at suppliers which needed to be sold /discounted so as you rightly pointed out they wouldnt ship any more old ****systems and would start to produce new ****models. The older systems would get a good discount and the peeps that wantedthe new ****ystems would buy those so without doubt Micorsofts figures got a good boost. I honestly believe 100% that the PS3 is out shipping the Xbox 360 upto this point and a lot of 360 fans seem hurt by this! Japan is a big market for Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft needs to make inroads into it as based on media create figures there is approx 4 million gap which is a massivefigure to loose.I think itsreally good for the consumer that the fight is so close this gen and I honestly think with moveout and kinect coming both consoles can make inroads into Nintendo's lead.

ok i get what you saying. Nice assessment:)

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

You may want to check those quarterly reports again. As it stands MS has shipped 2.9 million more units. If Sony had shipped more units since release, that wouldn't be the case.

SakusEnvoy

Once upon a time, it was actually a lot more of a hard-fought battle and there was a time when the 360 even managed to win worldwide.

By the end of September 30, 2006, Microsoft had shipped 6 million units. The PS3 had a really rocky debut and was hurt especially by not launching in Europe until March.

Until the $299 price cut, the 360 had actually technically been winning the worldwide battle.

Oct-Dec 2006 - PS3: 1.7, 360: 4.4

Jan-Mar 2007 - PS3: 1.8, 360: 0.5

Apr-Jun 2007 - PS3: 0.7, 360: 0.7

Jul-Sep 2007 - PS3:1.3, 360: 1.8

Oct-Dec 2007 - PS3: 4.9, 360: 4.3

Jan-Mar 2008 - PS3: 2.2, 360: 1.3

Apr-Jun 2008 - PS3: 1.6, 360: 1.3

July-Sep 2008 - PS3: 2.4, 360: 2.2

Oct-Dec 2008 - PS3: 4.5, 360: 6.0

Jan-Mar 2009 - PS3: 1.6, 360: 1.7

Apr-June 2009 - PS3: 1.1, 360: 1.2

PS3 shipments between October 2006 and June 2009: 23.8 million [link].

360 shipments between October 2006 and June 2009: 25.4 million [link] (31.4 million total).

----

But then when the PS3 dropped to $299, and the PS3 Slim launched, everything changed. Completely. And Microsoft could no longer touch PS3 shipment numbers, or even come close.

It provides a very convincing argument, I think, that the PS3's biggest problem was price.

July-September 2009 - PS3: 3.2, 360: 2.1 (outshipped by 1.1 million units)

October-December 2009 - PS3: 6.5, 360: 5.2 (outshipped by 1.3 million units)

January-March 2010 - PS3: 2.2, 360: 1.5 (outshipped by 700K units)

April-June 2010 - PS3: 2.4, 360: 1.5 (outshipped by 900K units)

July-September 2010 - PS3: 3.5, 360: 2.8 (outshipped by 700K units)

Wow I was gone all day yesterday and this thread is still going?