Man, FFXII has the worst characters in FF universe

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.Pietrooper

Final Fantasy had pretty much stayed the same since the one where they introduced ATB

Anyway, IX was best for me.

[QUOTE="Pietrooper"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.Vandalvideo

Final Fantasy had pretty much stayed the same since the one where they introduced ATB

Anyway, IX was best for me.

I also enjoyed ff9. Its definitely in my top 5 favourite final fantasy games. My faves are ff7, ff12, ff9, ff4 and ff8.

And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.JLF1

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.Vandalvideo

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.JLF1

However, in my opinion, they made the story more epic and focused on the world rather than the characters :|

Whats with all the love for Zack? he was in the game for about 30 seconds? :S ... I prefered Cloud for the very reason that he wasnt so hollow' introduced.

Or are we talking about crappy spin-offs if so, fine, I want nothing to do with this Crysis Core and so forth nonsense TYVM.

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="JLF1"]Yeah by turning the gameplay into an broken mmorpg, no character development (like it or not this is important in the FF universe, it would be like taking out the zergs from Starcraft 2 or no Freeman in Half life 3), and bad main story. IMO.Pietrooper

However, in my opinion, they made the story more epic and focused on the world rather than the characters :|

FF10 had a much better story than FF12. FF12 didn't even have a story. It was so straight forward and nothing really surprising happens. But of course FF9 trumps all in my opinion.exiledsnake

Yay! FF9 :D

Yes

[QUOTE="Ramadear"]

[QUOTE="catlin_czirr"]I love the characters from FF12, Balthier is so cool!!! And for the record Vaan >>> Titus by far.catlin_czirr

Rofl, I don't know about that man. Vaan is probably the worst protagonist in FF history. He doesn't do anything, he doesn't say anything, he is just in the game just to be there, period. The same with Penelo. In fact it would make more sense if those two weren't in the game. The TC is right, FFXII sucks. Its not worse that FFVIII but its damn near close.

No man, you mean that's the beauty of FF6. Which has no main character but each one has back stories and character development. Vaan and Penelo have no character development and their stories are minimum. There is a big difference. While its true that FF12 story isn't about the characters the point is the characters themselves might as well not been there. It would of been better to play the villians and other NPCs than the characters you got to play.

There's no point bashing on the male character design, it's whats popular in Japan. Considering SE is a Japanese company, they're going to try and appeal to their homeland more, obviously.

I don't think having a GeOW esque character for a lead would go down too well with Japan... Or anywhere else for that matter.

I agree the only 2 characters that had any real meaning or purpose in the storyline where Basch and Ashe, the rest where just followers. They where pointless characters. It would of made a bit more sense if they made Ashe the main character and not Vaan.

But yeah everything in that game was the worst out of every FF, right down to the soundtrack, it's terrible dull mazey enviroments, the combat and the star wars rip off storyline. It all just seemed so generic. Like there was no heart or soul put into the game.

Oh and Vaan looks like Posh Spice.tader-salad

:lol: He does..

[QUOTE="catlin_czirr"][QUOTE="Ramadear"]

[QUOTE="catlin_czirr"]I love the characters from FF12, Balthier is so cool!!! And for the record Vaan >>> Titus by far.Ramadear

Rofl, I don't know about that man. Vaan is probably the worst protagonist in FF history. He doesn't do anything, he doesn't say anything, he is just in the game just to be there, period. The same with Penelo. In fact it would make more sense if those two weren't in the game. The TC is right, FFXII sucks. Its not worse that FFVIII but its damn near close.

No man, you mean that's the beauty of FF6. Which has no main character but each one has back stories and character development. Vaan and Penelo have no character development and their stories are minimum. There is a big difference. While its true that FF12 story isn't about the characters the point is the characters themselves might as well not been there. It would of been better to play the villians and other NPCs than the characters you got to play.

Actually, Terra was the main character but most of the FFVI characters were as important as Terra was in the story.

i agree with the most people here saying that ffxii characters suck,it was the battle system that made me hate that game and no random encounters (damn you wrpg lovers, random battles ftw).but i would still finish the game if it had decent story and characters,but it doesnt,i kinda liked balthier and ashe but the rest were bad,bad to the bone

also why talk about the past here ,squarenix has learn from their mistakes and ffxiii has some of the best looking characters(lightning,mr33 {looks like irvine},the pig tales girl),and dont forget about the versus which has the best ff character ever (aside from sephiroth),not only he looks like sasuke (about his personality the creator said he will make most games mad at him)i know i will love him hehe

Actually, Terra was the main character but most of the FFVI characters were as important as Terra was in the story.Guyper

No she isn't, there is no main character in FF6. In fact you don't even have to play Terra, though her personal story is part of the main one. But so is mostly everyones.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]And yet Final Fantasy 12 was easy the best FF due to its willingness to try new things intsead of go with the same cookie cutter crap we've been seeing for decades.JLF1

IMHO FFXII was the greatest FF game by far, not that that others were bad, but this one had every thing

1. great gameplay- FFX turn based system seemed too old

2. 3D camera - FFX and the other PS1 games would have been soo much better

without fixed cameras

3. a gambit system

4. great story and characters

5. great graphics

Whats with all the love for Zack? he was in the game for about 30 seconds? :S ... I prefered Cloud for the very reason that he wasnt so hollow' introduced.

Or are we talking about crappy spin-offs if so, fine, I want nothing to do with this Crysis Core and so forth nonsense TYVM.

Meu2k7

Whats with the hate for Crisis Core? The game is pretty damn good. I'd go as far as too say its better then X and XII. Definitely has more character development than XII, more interesting gameplay than XII considering its in the same vein as Kingdom Hearts not FF11. I actually cared about the characters and their situation more than X. Zack's inevitable fate, maturation as a character, and Sephiroth's overall ability to actually develop as a character thats likeable is a more compelling plot then X's teen angst drivel/Elton John fashion show.

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"]

Whats with all the love for Zack? he was in the game for about 30 seconds? :S ... I prefered Cloud for the very reason that he wasnt so hollow' introduced.

Or are we talking about crappy spin-offs if so, fine, I want nothing to do with this Crysis Core and so forth nonsense TYVM.

Ket87

Whats with the hate for Crisis Core? The game is pretty damn good. I'd go as far as too say its better then X and XII. Definitely has more character development than XII, more interesting gameplay than XII considering its in the same vein as Kingdom Hearts not FF11. I actually cared about the characters and their situation more than X. Zack's inevitable fate, maturation as a character, and Sephiroth's overall ability to actually develop as a character thats likeable is a more compelling plot then X's teen angst drivel/Elton John fashion show.

Basch Was the only cool charcther in that game. The best Charcters fir an FF game are

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

yoshi_64

IMHO FFXII was the greatest FF game by far, not that that others were bad, but this one had every thing

1. great gameplay- FFX turn based system seemed too old

2. 3D camera - FFX and the other PS1 games would have been soo much better

without fixed cameras

3. a gambit system

4. great story and characters

5. great graphics

Mad_Rhetoric

dude the story in FF XII wasn't even that good. FF XII story was way to linear. There wasn't enough emotion it. It wasn't a really a chartherdriven story. Although the graphics in FF XII were amazing. The music and Story didn't really fit too well together. I dont belivive there was any memorable tunes. Whereas a game like FF VI had emotion an more Charcter driven story, plus more memorable music. The charchters each had there own sotry. There was a ton of charcthers to play as. It also had the most insteresting villian in Kefka

[QUOTE="Mad_Rhetoric"]

IMHO FFXII was the greatest FF game by far, not that that others were bad, but this one had every thing

1. great gameplay- FFX turn based system seemed too old

2. 3D camera - FFX and the other PS1 games would have been soo much better

without fixed cameras

3. a gambit system

4. great story and characters

5. great graphics

nick31189

dude the story in FF XII wasn't even that good. FF XII story was way to linear. There wasn't enough emotion it. It wasn't a really a chartherdriven story. Although the graphics in FF XII were amazing. The music and Story didn't really fit too well together. I dont belivive there was any memorable tunes. Whereas a game like FF VI had emotion an more Charcter driven story, plus more memorable music. The charchters each had there own sotry. There was a ton of charcthers to play as. It also had the most insteresting villian in Kefka

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

TheMysticHorse

No actually he didn't go to avenge his brother, he already excepted that Basch killed him and that was it. He simply went along to become sky pirate. Whoopie.. Nobody cares about Vaan becoming a sky pirate cause that wasn't the main story. Balthier and Rabbit ears where also pretty useless. They where basically there cause they wanted some treasure? :| So yeah we've got 4 pointless characters in this Star wars rip off storyline.

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

TheMysticHorse

Fran and Balthier you get are just after treasure, but their motives for still clinging on become totally foggy after 2/3rds the way in the game. It's like "do you want treasure?" and "dude, you love Fran tell us already!!!" :P Ok not the best explainations, I just had to get that out.

But I never understood what his and Cid's relationship were really, why the hell they still went along with this whole ordeal... I think Ashe said she was going to pay them for all their troubles? I never remembered, but they almost had no real reason to hang around if you ask me.

Ash was pretty weak in some ways too. Like Penelo, her character just wasn't given much time to shine, and more moments came in trying to give the spotlight to Balthier or Vaan. Whom I would suppose could be considered the "leaders" but no one really was a leader here either. I'd care more for the women, if she wasn't so lost to me... It wasn't motives or stuff like that, just her actual character. I get she's the strong determined queen wanting her throne back, but that was it... and that was typical to me as well.

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

Dahaka-UK

No actually he didn't go to avenge his brother, he already excepted that Basch killed him and that was it. He simply went along to become sky pirate. Whoopie.. Nobody cares about Vaan becoming a sky pirate cause that was the main story. Balthier and Rabbit ears where also pretty useless. They where basically there cause they wanted some treasure? :| So yeah we've got 4 pointless characters in this Star wars rip off storyline.

Don't talk about a story YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT kiddo.

Now thats a man!

What makes FFXIIs characters disappointing is that they're fantastic in design; with the exception of fran, there are no "over the top"-characters we were used to in FFs and other JRPGs; they all seemed genuinly real, and I expected them to have equally "real", fleshed-out motives, backstories, reasons and ends. That XIIs characters were no Yuffies or Quinas, who have no impact on the grand schemes whatsoever but were there for a reason. After all, why include not-so-different-from-another humans when you're not going to use them in the story?

But that's exactly what Square-Enix did. I always expected to get to know more about character xy, but nope. They all just tag along, they do take part in the story, yes, all of them, but they're all meh, interchangable, uninteresting. It fits in the whole "Single-Player-MMORPG"-thing that FFXII has going, but I expected so much more when I saw the designs; that's why yes, FFXII has the worst characters in the recent FFs.

[QUOTE="Dahaka-UK"][QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

TheMysticHorse

No actually he didn't go to avenge his brother, he already excepted that Basch killed him and that was it. He simply went along to become sky pirate. Whoopie.. Nobody cares about Vaan becoming a sky pirate cause that was the main story. Balthier and Rabbit ears where also pretty useless. They where basically there cause they wanted some treasure? :| So yeah we've got 4 pointless characters in this Star wars rip off storyline.

Don't talk about a story YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT kiddo.

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"][QUOTE="yoshi_64"]

The problem with XII's charactes is they never were fleshed out well enough. From their motives (Vaan and Penelo went along why? It was never really cleared) to some whom were interesting but never fully developed (Fran and Balthier) to some who just were great albeit easily understood. (Basch is the typical loyal soldier tot he queen, but then again... he's still interesting on his own.)

Seriously, it's liek SE sacrificed character development to make a great and interesting political story plot.

The side characters and villians had more depth and development than some of the heroes.

yoshi_64

Fran and Balthier you get are just after treasure, but their motives for still clinging on become totally foggy after 2/3rds the way in the game. It's like "do you want treasure?" and "dude, you love Fran tell us already!!!" :P Ok not the best explainations, I just had to get that out.

But I never understood what his and Cid's relationship were really, why the hell they still went along with this whole ordeal... I think Ashe said she was going to pay them for all their troubles? I never remembered, but they almost had no real reason to hang around if you ask me.

Ash was pretty weak in some ways too. Like Penelo, her character just wasn't given much time to shine, and more moments came in trying to give the spotlight to Balthier or Vaan. Whom I would suppose could be considered the "leaders" but no one really was a leader here either. I'd care more for the women, if she wasn't so lost to me... It wasn't motives or stuff like that, just her actual character. I get she's the strong determined queen wanting her throne back, but that was it... and that was typical to me as well.

Still, Vaan's brother died because of the Empire, and the fact they tried muscling into Dalmasca. He's certainly going to feel biiter towards them, because had they not been so lustful for power, his brother wouldn't have been killed in the process, no matter who killed him. It's blatantly obvious from the start of the game that he dislikes the empire, so he naturally was going to fight for his brother against the empire. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't know if Basch/Gabranth did it from the start, what he knows is that it would not have happened had the empire not been trying to invade. Penelo did lack development, which is probably why they dedicated the ending to her.

I feel sorry for those who said FFX has bad and uninteresting characters.PullTheTricker

Again, interesting design =/= interesting characters. Lulu for example was great in theory, and had her moments, but in the end, you could make a detailed summary of FFXs story without including Lulu. Or Wakka. Rikku served her purpose getting you to the Al-Bhed-city, but became equally useless after that. FFX, like IX and XII, consists mostly of characters that are given 1 hour in the entire storyline to tell their little substory and then just tag along.

I'm just not fond to any of them, they all seem flat. They made FFX characters seem X10 cooler nowGuyper

Never touched 12 yet. One day I'll beat it. But I really hated 10. Loved 7, 8, and 9.

Still, Vaan's brother died because of the Empire, and the fact they tried muscling into Dalmasca. He's certainly going to feel biiter towards them, because had they not been so lustful for power, his brother wouldn't have been killed in the process, no matter who killed him. It's blatantly obvious from the start of the game that he dislikes the empire, so he naturally was going to fight for his brother against the empire. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't know if Basch/Gabranth did it from the start, what he knows is that it would not have happened had the empire not been trying to invade. Penelo did lack development, which is probably why they dedicated the ending to her.

TheMysticHorse

As for Vaan, I pretty much know he's fighting for his brother and in the beginning he wanted to accomplish his dreams of becoming a sky pirate (which fits for the RW game on DS) however I guess my disappointment was, they had me try and care for this character who pretty much ended being one of a few. By that I mean, I kind of was thinking he'd be the hero of the game, the leader of sorts, and the man who'd rise up, grow through these trials, and become more than a street rat out for vengenances of sorts.

I'm not saying he was bad or terrible, but I guess the problem XII had for me was that it didn't feel like anyone was ever taking control of the story... yet that was how VI was so why do I feel this way? I don't really know... but VI's characters were very well told, likeable, and had great backstory and development to make them feel unique and special.

but VI's characters were very well told, likeable, and had great backstory and development to make them feel unique and special. yoshi_64

Edgar, Gau, Shadow, Celes, Strago, Relm and Setzer had no development or impact whatsoever. They, too, are cases of "1 hour of backstory, then tag along"

[QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

Still, Vaan's brother died because of the Empire, and the fact they tried muscling into Dalmasca. He's certainly going to feel biiter towards them, because had they not been so lustful for power, his brother wouldn't have been killed in the process, no matter who killed him. It's blatantly obvious from the start of the game that he dislikes the empire, so he naturally was going to fight for his brother against the empire. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't know if Basch/Gabranth did it from the start, what he knows is that it would not have happened had the empire not been trying to invade. Penelo did lack development, which is probably why they dedicated the ending to her.

yoshi_64

As for Vaan, I pretty much know he's fighting for his brother and in the beginning he wanted to accomplish his dreams of becoming a sky pirate (which fits for the RW game on DS) however I guess my disappointment was, they had me try and care for this character who pretty much ended being one of a few. By that I mean, I kind of was thinking he'd be the hero of the game, the leader of sorts, and the man who'd rise up, grow through these trials, and become more than a street rat out for vengenances of sorts.

I'm not saying he was bad or terrible, but I guess the problem XII had for me was that it didn't feel like anyone was ever taking control of the story... yet that was how VI was so why do I feel this way? I don't really know... but VI's characters were very well told, likeable, and had great backstory and development to make them feel unique and special.

[QUOTE="yoshi_64"][QUOTE="TheMysticHorse"]

Still, Vaan's brother died because of the Empire, and the fact they tried muscling into Dalmasca. He's certainly going to feel biiter towards them, because had they not been so lustful for power, his brother wouldn't have been killed in the process, no matter who killed him. It's blatantly obvious from the start of the game that he dislikes the empire, so he naturally was going to fight for his brother against the empire. It doesn't really matter that he doesn't know if Basch/Gabranth did it from the start, what he knows is that it would not have happened had the empire not been trying to invade. Penelo did lack development, which is probably why they dedicated the ending to her.

TheMysticHorse

As for Vaan, I pretty much know he's fighting for his brother and in the beginning he wanted to accomplish his dreams of becoming a sky pirate (which fits for the RW game on DS) however I guess my disappointment was, they had me try and care for this character who pretty much ended being one of a few. By that I mean, I kind of was thinking he'd be the hero of the game, the leader of sorts, and the man who'd rise up, grow through these trials, and become more than a street rat out for vengenances of sorts.

I'm not saying he was bad or terrible, but I guess the problem XII had for me was that it didn't feel like anyone was ever taking control of the story... yet that was how VI was so why do I feel this way? I don't really know... but VI's characters were very well told, likeable, and had great backstory and development to make them feel unique and special.

XII showed even some important NPCs and the lifestyle of many affected cities because of this war.

Gameplay wise, I'd say I honestly still prefer VI's. Part of the reason is, while I love the quasi real-time battle system (sure you could move around, but attacks still happened in a turned-based system a la KOTOR) and no more random encounters either. However, the problem I had with XII's gameplay mechanic overall was the weapon system and character definition.

Anyone could wield any weapon, wear the same armor, and the like if you so choosed. The liscene board was setup so anyone could go any path, and for the first few 20 some hours in the beginning of the game... it was no problem. I chose different paths and made some different people, but once you complete the License board, everyone feels the same... and it was pretty easy to complete the thing too.

Sure VI had a system where everyone could learn all the same magic and use the same summons, but each character had a unique fighting style and it was fun to really explore them and use them for different enemies or ust swap around. Mainly, for XII, the benefit I only saw for different weapons from Swords, Staves, Hammers, etc was ... well it was really marginal if you ask me. I had Bash wield an Axe for the whole way through, Fran, Balthier and Vaan for the longest time held staves, guns I found useless as it was hard to obtain good enough ammo and even guns for that matter. Swords were standard fare too, Penelo, Ashe, and Vaan began being my sword wielers.

Magic mostly was something I rarely had to worry about... sure I set the appropiate gambits to heal my ailments, or use on the enemies, but summoning I found so broken and useless. You lose 2 people for one Esper, whom would either die easily on a boss, or the summoner would die on the boss, making the esper have to leave... I rarely saw any of the Esper's strongest attacks and they really didn't provide much benefits, because you'd lose a ton of MP on summons or all MP on the highest ones, that it left you defenseless and wasting ethers.