Mass Effet 1 Vs Mass Effect 2 :Replay addition.

Look I've played a lot of RPG's in my life to spot one. ME2 is barely an RPG. It has some elements, but those elements don't even matter , you play the game like GeoW, stay behind cover to regenerate and shot everything up. That is not what a real RPG is like.Revan_911

[QUOTE="Revan_911"][QUOTE="SilentlyMad"]And yet you can not explain why ME2 is not a rpg with your vast rpg knowledge ok gotcha. Just wondering do you think anyone believes this stuff on here that you are saying?

dreman999

What you maxed out and what final powers did you developed. What gun training did you choose. And what was you extra power. I max out singularity and warp. I used heavy singularity and Heavy warp. Choose a sniper rifle. Maxed out my upgrades with heavy pistol. And for fun my extra ability is Biotic slam.dreman999

Like you singularity and warp too. Though I definitely got the chance of upgrading other powers to the maximum, but those were by far my favorites as well, you can't go wrong with that combo. Sniper rifle as well(love sniping). I don't remember the name of the ability I chose but I know it started with an R, but I definitely considered biotic slam too XD. But then again I played quite a few times with Mirranda so I felt I didn't need it as much.

edited: And hell let's face it, I didn't find Biotic Slam to have much of a tactical efficiency in the game. But it was still fun to use though XD. Btw the power was reave.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Revan_911"] I've said it three times on this thread alone. "It does not play like an RPG, it plays like GeoW with added dialogue options". It has a bare bones leveling system with four upgradable spells (one passive). You don't get experience by killing monsters, It doesn't have stats like Intelligence, Strength, and how you build your character has no effect on how you interact with your world.Revan_911

ME1 was a AMAZING game but in saying that ME2 is so much better. I honestly was shocked how much better ME2 was then ME1 considering how much I loved ME1.SilentlyMad

Agreed 100%.

[QUOTE="Revan_911"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] That is a very clear explanation.......OF NOTHING!!!!!! Just tell us what your definition of an rpg is. You came in the thread say that me2 is not an rpg but you refuse to explain what an rpg is and why ME2 is not an rpg. So really why both doing this.skinny_man_69

No, it's not subjective. When i play something like Vampire: The Masquarade i know i am playing an RPG. With ME2 it's very unclear what i am playing. It doesn't have stats to determine how smart my character is, how fast he is, how much health does he have,how much DMG does he do, what armor can i wear. It depends on you really and not your character. Which defeats the purpose of role playing. You are playing yourself and not your character with all his cons and pros.

[QUOTE="skinny_man_69"][QUOTE="Revan_911"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] That is a very clear explanation.......OF NOTHING!!!!!! Just tell us what your definition of an rpg is. You came in the thread say that me2 is not an rpg but you refuse to explain what an rpg is and why ME2 is not an rpg. So really why both doing this.Revan_911

No, it's not subjective. When i play something like Vampire: The Masquarade i know i am playing an RPG. With ME2 it's very unclear what i am playing. It doesn't have stats to determine how smart my character is, how fast he is, how much health does he have,how much DMG does he do, what armor can i wear. It depends on you really and not your character. Which defeats the purpose of role playing. You are playing yourself and not your character with all his cons and pros.

But isn't even playing myself still playing a role? I mean, if I played nothing, then it would not be a ROLE playing game. But I am playing a role. I am Commander Shepard. So is the name of the genre wrong, your definition, my definition (I have feeling you will pick this one), the construct of the genre....Which is it? Or maybe...JUST maybe....Mass Effect 2 is an RPG due to the fact that everyone seems to classify it as one. Well, except you of course

And the sheer fact that there are differing opinions on this subject make it subjective

[QUOTE="Revan_911"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] That is a very clear explanation.......OF NOTHING!!!!!! Just tell us what your definition of an rpg is. You came in the thread say that me2 is not an rpg but you refuse to explain what an rpg is and why ME2 is not an rpg. So really why both doing this.skinny_man_69

if i were anal about it, i could list quite a few games that are about the same level of rpg vs. non rpg as the ME trilogy:

• KOTOR 1 & 2
• Valkyria Chronicles
• Fable 1 & 2
• Fallout 3

KOTOR suffered heavily by having everything immediately gimped by the lightsabre, after you obtain that there's really no reason to invest in anything else, there's also the conundrum of having stimulants which can largely remove any deficiencies from your character build regardless of how you spent your points... there was also the issue of having companions which further simplified any problems brought on by character build (not to mention the loot system in KOTOR 1 makes Mass Effect 1 look like the god of loot-based rpg's)

Valkyria Chronicles is a strategy RPG with by-the-numbers weapons/armor but little else, individual character achievements are spread out to all characters of a single class, and equipment upgrades are equally as dumbed down as they are in ME2 (also of course, you don't obtain experience points when killing enemies, it's a per-mission exp based system and per-mission based loot system)

Fable is well... Fable

Fallout 3 is just as much a shooter as it is an rpg, there's roll of the dice accuracy and critical damage, as well as item hoarding and stat point spending, however there's still any number of ways to break that system and simply turn it into a spam fest (at least the customization was fun)

regardless, people call 'em rpg's because that's what they're aiming for, not necessarily because they're purist (Gran Turismo 1-4 wouldn't be racing sims if you had to be purist to be in a genre)

i mean if you really want to rag on rpg for not being an rpg rag on Jade Empire which is basically a brawler

Yes, you can niptick about other games too, but the fact remains ME2 does not play out like an RPG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SttQASLDxk

Look at this. If you show this to a person would he clasify it as an RPG?

That's why ME2 fails as an RPG, there is no roleplaying involved outside of dialogue and even the dialogue is as minimalistic as good/bad option i never said it's not an RPG, its just the RPG ellements took a big step back for the shooting elements.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]What you maxed out and what final powers did you developed. What gun training did you choose. And what was you extra power. I max out singularity and warp. I used heavy singularity and Heavy warp. Choose a sniper rifle. Maxed out my upgrades with heavy pistol. And for fun my extra ability is Biotic slam.StealthSting

Like you singularity and warp too. Though I definitely got the chance of upgrading other powers to the maximum, but those were by far my favorites as well, you can't go wrong with that combo. Sniper rifle as well(love sniping). I don't remember the name of the ability I chose but I know it started with an R, but I definitely considered biotic slam too XD. But then again I played quite a few times with Mirranda so I felt I didn't need it as much.

Yes, you can niptick about other games too, but the fact remains ME2 does not play out like an RPG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SttQASLDxk

Look at this. If you show this to a person would he clasify it as an RPG?

That's why ME2 fails as an RPG, there is no roleplaying involved outside of dialogue and even the dialogue is as minimalistic as good/bad option i never said it's not an RPG, its just the RPG ellements took a big step back for the shooting elements.

Revan_911

i think everybody in this thread has played the game plenty...

besides that, instead of arguing whether or not it's an rpg, since you just said it's an rpg, just say you think it's a bad or shallow rpg

i mean saying it's not an rpg and then say it's not worth discussing whether or not it's an rpg just makes people either curious or angry, don't you think?

One games weakness is the other games strengths... they are both amazing in my book. In my opinion, you're comparing the 2 best games this generation.

Yes, you can niptick about other games too, but the fact remains ME2 does not play out like an RPG.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SttQASLDxk

Look at this. If you show this to a person would he clasify it as an RPG?

That's why ME2 fails as an RPG, there is no roleplaying involved outside of dialogue and even the dialogue is as minimalistic as good/bad option i never said it's not an RPG, its just the RPG ellements took a big step back for the shooting elements.

Revan_911

Watch this, it's not an RPG, it's just a real time strategy with dialogue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_MN9op-Zdo&feature=PlayList&p=74FDD0C3BD146DC4&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

This too, it's not an RPG, it's just a hack and stash with stats.

You try and blatantly oversimplify a game because of how it plays, then really no game is an RPG. Mass Effect 2 is an RPG that plays like a shooter. That's all there is to it.

I much preferred the first - it was more an RPG than a shooter and the story was A LOT better.fenwickhotmail

[QUOTE="Revan_911"][QUOTE="skinny_man_69"]

So you are avoiding the question then? You didn't seem to have any problems turning this into a Mass Effect hate thread. Now I am asking you what makes an RPG

skinny_man_69

Not as much as you believe, the fact that is, you can beat the game without leveling skills, I've done 2 times, just for the sake of proving it to non believers.

Well, TC, we agree on some point and disagree on others. Especially on the combat, an Action RPG needs stats, no matter how much simplified they are. I won't discuss the same things I pointed out on this thread, but I will put as a reminder that even very lightly Action RPG's, like Oblivion and FO3 have stats that REALLY affect the character combat abilities; mechanics that are absent in ME2, and were included in ME1, bad implemented, but they were there.

As for me, I really like ME2 as a game, but its not a good sequel in terms of Immersion, Plot, RPG Mechanics, Freedom, Side Quest; as it is for Characterization, Combat and some new gimmicks.

Final verdict, I'll take ME1 over the two any day.

I much preferred the first - it was more an RPG than a shooter and the story was A LOT better.fenwickhotmail

[QUOTE="fenwickhotmail"]I much preferred the first - it was more an RPG than a shooter and the story was A LOT better.chopperdave447

Love them both. Like you said TC, there are things about both that are better than the other. This might go down as the greatest trilogy in gaming history.djsifer01

I like the combat of ME2 more but I don't quite understand why it had to come at the expense of multiple types of ever gun, multiple armor types, stats and increased customization.

Were there really people pissed off that ME1 had a variety of unique weapons and armor with varying traits that you could customize, or totally ignore, if you wanted to? It'd be nice if ME3 struck a middle ground and offered the Baby's 1st RPG mode of ME2 where all you can do is power up your attacks like it's Prototype or Infamous and then had another ME1 mode where you can do ME1 style customization if you want to.

[QUOTE="Revan_911"]ME2 fails as an RPG, ME just plain fails. Stop discussing the series like they are important to gaming or something.Lionheart08

How does it fail as an RPG? Do you mean Stat Customization? I think Adobe puts it better than I can ever hope to, Stat Customization and Inventory System=/= RPG. Mass Effect 2 actually has literal Role Playing.

I like the combat of ME2 more but I don't quite understand why it had to come at the expense of multiple types of ever gun, multiple armor types, stats and increased customization.

Were there really people pissed off that ME1 had a variety of unique weapons and armor with varying traits that you could customize, or totally ignore, if you wanted to? It'd be nice if ME3 struck a middle ground and offered the Baby's 1st RPG mode of ME2 where all you can do is power up your attacks like it's Prototype or Infamous and then had another ME1 mode where you can do ME1 style customization if you want to.

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

[QUOTE="Revan_911"]ME2 fails as an RPG, ME just plain fails. Stop discussing the series like they are important to gaming or something.Senor_Kami

How does it fail as an RPG? Do you mean Stat Customization? I think Adobe puts it better than I can ever hope to, Stat Customization and Inventory System=/= RPG. Mass Effect 2 actually has literal Role Playing.

.

2. Most of the stats ether have been combined it one stat tree or turn in to gear up grades. Like shields, it was something you leveled up before, now its something you upgrade. Ether way, you can choose to ignore it regardless.

[QUOTE="skinny_man_69"][QUOTE="Revan_911"] I told you i am not going to discuss it. Suffice to say that ME2 doesn't play like an RPG it plays like GeoW, the outcome of the battle doesn't depend on the stats and skills of your character it depends on your aiming skill.LookAnDrolL

Not as much as you believe, the fact that is, you can beat the game without leveling skills, I've done 2 times, just for the sake of proving it to non believers.

Well, TC, we agree on some point and disagree on others. Especially on the combat, an Action RPG needs stats, no matter how much simplified they are. I won't discuss the same things I pointed out on this thread, but I will put as a reminder that even very lightly Action RPG's, like Oblivion and FO3 have stats that REALLY affect the character combat abilities; mechanics that are absent in ME2, and were included in ME1, bad implemented, but they were there.

As for me, I really like ME2 as a game, but its not a good sequel in terms of Immersion, Plot, RPG Mechanics, Freedom, Side Quest; as it is for Characterization, Combat and some new gimmicks.

Final verdict, I'll take ME1 over the two any day.

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]

[QUOTE="skinny_man_69"] Uhm yes it does depend on the stats and skills of your character AS WELL as your aiming skill. If you don't put your skill points in the right slots and upgrade your abilities, you will not be able to defeat your tougher enemies. Are you not going to discuss it with me because you don't have an answer? dreman999

Not as much as you believe, the fact that is, you can beat the game without leveling skills, I've done 2 times, just for the sake of proving it to non believers.

Well, TC, we agree on some point and disagree on others. Especially on the combat, an Action RPG needs stats, no matter how much simplified they are. I won't discuss the same things I pointed out on this thread, but I will put as a reminder that even very lightly Action RPG's, like Oblivion and FO3 have stats that REALLY affect the character combat abilities; mechanics that are absent in ME2, and were included in ME1, bad implemented, but they were there.

As for me, I really like ME2 as a game, but its not a good sequel in terms of Immersion, Plot, RPG Mechanics, Freedom, Side Quest; as it is for Characterization, Combat and some new gimmicks.

Final verdict, I'll take ME1 over the two any day.

1. After replaying ME1. I would say that the gun/armor ratio is strange between ME1 and ME2. But the guns and armors in ME1 were just color swaps with each gun just being a little bit stronger and better then the next. ME1 is a case of too much but ME2 is a case of too little. They could of given you more gun but replace it with upgrades. Bioware needs to balance this. Both games fell on their face with this.

.

2. Most of the stats ether have been combined it one stat tree or turn in to gear up grades. Like shields, it was something you leveled up before, now its something you upgrade. Ether way, you can choose to ignore it regardless.

dreman999

Your character stats even follow that. If there was some stat that you didn't need at all, you could totally ignore it and allocate more points in other areas. ME2 get rid that and gives you one, "Make me better in every possible way" stat, which you'd kinda be an idiot to not level up in and everything else is pretty much just like a limited version of Infamous or Prototype's leveling and with a smaller moveset. You can't pick and choose and customize your character or squadmates anywhere near as much as ME1 or even games which just have RPG elements and don't consider themselves full fledged RPGs... which was a disappointment to me.

It doesn't make ME2 bad or anything like that, but I does feel like they looked at everything in the game and said, "would a shooter fan immediately like this?" and if the answer was no they scrapped it completely. It makes me worried as to what going to get the axe for Mass Effect 3?

Trying to compare both games is completely missing the point. The game is a trilogy and the first 2 parts work together better than any game I've seen.

I love both games equally. There are things the first game did better and there are things that the second game excels in. As a whole, the universe and and the stories with in it are awesome and have a great continuity.

Trying to compare both games is completely missing the point. The game is a trilogy and the first 2 parts work together better than any game I've seen.

I love both games equally. There are things the first game did better and there are things that the second game excels in. As a whole, the universe and and the stories with in it are awesome and have a great continuity.

[QUOTE="skinny_man_69"]

[QUOTE="Revan_911"]I am not it turning into one of those threads. TC wanted to discuss something else.Revan_911

So you are avoiding the question then? You didn't seem to have any problems turning this into a Mass Effect hate thread. Now I am asking you what makes an RPG

You mean it doesn't conform to archetypal gameplay mechanics typically associated with role playing games? Or to stipulate, OTHER role playing games.

Why would you care that Mass Effect deviates from traditional rpg archetypes when they clearly wouldn't make sense given the nature of the game? Commander Shepard is a guy who is on missions most of the time; why would it also be his job to manage his team mates equipment and armour? Why would he modify or change out his armour two or three times on a space station? The answer is he wouldn't, but to be fair he wouldn't be mineral mining either but that's obviously something they wont be putting in Mass Effect 3 if they listen to the community. What they have done however is made a game in which the player can fall into the role of Commander Shepard, form his personality through decisions and dialogue and sit back as the story unfolds.

The fact that you make decisions which moderately affect the game universe is enough for this game to be considered an RPG. You are role playing... and it doesn't conform to the typical "good vs evil" decision making either.

Trying to compare both games is completely missing the point. The game is a trilogy and the first 2 parts work together better than any game I've seen.

I love both games equally. There are things the first game did better and there are things that the second game excels in. As a whole, the universe and and the stories with in it are awesome and have a great continuity.

I much preferred the first - it was more an RPG than a shooter and the story was A LOT better.fenwickhotmail

It wasn't that much more of an RPG and the shooting mechanics were horrible compared to the 2nd. Story wise I agree but that is what you get being in the middle.