Matt Booty says no next gen 1st party Xbox exclusives for the first couple of years

Wow now the argument is communities..lol

You on Dead Rising 3...

It was a great game by your word...Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.. So a great exclusive isn't a reason to get a new xbox machine?

Wait that was a thread claiming DR3 was the best in the series..lol

The fun part is that there is no freaking game with a 4000 people loby,this games are P2P mostly still,so even 400k people getting a game is enough to have plently of people to play,by the way Killzone SF for example sold 2.1 millions copies in little over 1 month.

https://www.cinemablend.com/games/Killzone-Shadow-Fall-Sells-2-1-Million-Copies-PS4-61961.html

Comminities were healty enough.

You again look like a clown.

@Zero_epyon: Halo 5: Guardians was released in 2015.. It stands to reason development on Halo Infinite was started 4~5 years ago..

That's at least 4 years of potential development time for a game that was revealed in 2018 and won't be released until 2020.. With Microsoft having released a brand new Xbox One X console a year earlier in 2017..

Looking at the simple math:

1) do you think Halo Infinite spent more time in development with Xbox One S/X in mind or the Xbox Series S/X in mind?..

2) assuming you answered the 1st question honestly, do you think Halo Infinite was originally intended for a Xbox One S/X release or a Xbox Series S/X launch?

3) again assuming some measure of intellectual honesty on your part, if Halo Infinite spent the last 4~ years in development for the Xbox One S/X but was potentially pushed back to promote the Xbox S/X instead, wouldnt a current-gen version of the game be readily feasible?..

4) If Halo Infinite was locked behind an arbitrary label of "next-gen" in order to push console sales of the Xbox Series S/X, does that somehow erase the fact that the game was clearly designed and envisioned to be a Xbox One S/X game originally?..

I'm sure you'll avoid directly answering any of that because it flies directly in face of your assertions that next-gen exclusive launch titles are designed from the ground up for that next-gen hardware just because they're exclusives..

And hey, I'm not saying all games available at launch don't take advantage of the new hardware.. Heck, I fully expect Halo Infinite to take advantage of the Xbox Series X hardware.. But if Halo Infinite was announced as a "Xbox Series X exclusive", does that mean it was developed "from the ground up for Xbox Series X"?.. Of course not..

This same logic will likely apply to most, if not all, of the upcoming PS5 1st party launch titles.. Games that have been in development for years, likely targeting the PS4/Pro originally, but pushed back to promote the PS5.. And there's nothing wrong with that, it's the nature of the business.. But when it comes to games like that, all this idealistic talk of "taking full advantage of the new hardware" (when only around 30% of the development years were spent utilizing the new hardware) basically boils down to marketing speak for "we want you to buy our new hardware to play this game"..

@Antwan3K:

The fact that you believed that the shitty cloud MS had could make a game not work on PS4 which was more powerful than the xbox one says it all.

According to you 4X CPU power is enough to make a game not work on another platform.

Once again your pass arguments have come back to hunt you.

I'll answer, but I'm wondering if you're even going to try to answer any of mine without shifting the arguments.

1) Yes. Considering they would have started development before MS finalized any hardware for next gen and dev kits weren't even a thing. Killer Instinct was created this way. A prototype was built on the 360, but eventually, it became an Xbox One exclusive launch title.

2) I can't know for sure, but I'd imagine the plan was to make sure Infinite was built in a way that it can be run on the Xbox One Family, which means it would make the best sense to build it with the Xbox One as a target.

3) You're assuming that Halo Infinite requires less development time. What do you base that on? The game won't be traditionally open world or sandbox like, but it will be much larger and required changes to the engine in order to implement those changes. It's totally reasonable for it to take 4+ years to build, especially since they have to work on a cross gen and cross platform compatible engine.

4) It would depend on the state of the game. Killer Instinct was going to be a 360 game and it was killed and made an Xbox One exclusive. If Halo Infinite was originally an Xbox One only title, but somehow became an Series X exclusive, I would expect a pretty substantial change to the game's engine and quality that would clearly bust the Xbox One S. Like having a large densely populated ring world, very high resolution textures and affects, and a way to seamlessly travel the world without loading screens or loading chokepoints.

Just take a look at this quote from Frank O' Connor a franchise director from 343:

That's changed the way we develop and the way we think about things, but we are always shooting for the best possible hardware target. This time it's going to be up to you to decide whether it's going to be Scarlett or PC; it kind of depends on your PC at that point. But the Xbox One is not going to be a second-class citizen. We're building it so Halo Infinite plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about.

So they're starting with Xbox One first and then adding to it as the platform increases in power. This is how multiplatform development works. And they're already working on optimizations and possible cutbacks in order to get the game to run and look acceptably on Xbox One. Optimizations and cutbacks that would probably be unnecessary if the only console platform they had to deal with was the Series X.

But if Halo Infinite was announced as a "Xbox Series X exclusive", does that mean it was developed "from the ground up for Xbox Series X"?.. Of course not..

What? So if a game is exclusive to a console, that literally means that the single platform was the target and it was built for it. Why would a dev build an engine for a game that can run on a Switch if the only platform it will get released on is a PS4?

I read some of his previous posts. He really thought Xbox One's TV/Kinect/Cloud power was going to take over and called PS4 a PS3.5 because it wasn't doing the same. Wild!

@Antwan3K: If the race vs Sony in unwinnable then why should Xbox continue to sell hardware at all? Why not drop the hardware and put the games on Playstation as well? That would increase the install base by over 100 million. Microsoft having a hardware platform at all seems to clash with what you're getting at. And we already know adding the PC userbase hasn't moved the needle in any meaningful way.

Go ahead, say Xbox games should be on Playstation

It would be interesting seeing MS going 3rd party since they are a software company at heart.

Hilariously enough, MS reportedly proposed this to Sony specifically with some game pass titles, but Sony (imo was too stupid to see the long term value in this and) rejected the offers based upon the principle of not promoting their competitors through their hardware. Whatever details I may not know about the proposed deal cannot overshadow the benefit to all gamers from this (imo).

Yes, it may have given MS a huge marketing edge, but damn it would have made so many gamers happy. Especially those gaming across many platforms from Xbox to Playstation.

@Zero_epyon:

1) so yes, Halo Infinite spent more time being developed with current-gen in mind then next-gen..

2) So yes, in the move to next-gen they logically kept current-gen support in mind..

3) maybe you misunderstood the question. Considering your answers to the two previous questions, is a current-gen version of Halo Infinite feasible despite its positioning as a Xbox Series launch title?.. I think the answer is clearly "yes"..

4) again, I'm not sure if you're tracking on the question.. Because judging from the previous responses, it clearly stands to reason that Halo Infinite spent the vast majority of its development time being made with current-gen in mind.. So IF Microsoft decided to arbitrarily make it a Xbox Series X exclusive, that doesn't mean the game couldn't still have been released for Xbox One..

The game started off as a current-gen title with a target of Xbox One S/X.. The target console shifted to Xbox Series S/X.. The target console has changed to Series S/X but the underlying concepts, designs, and techniques for it to run on Xbox One S/X didn't just magically dissappear.. This is why many "next-gen" launch games could likely have been made as cross-gen titles, particularly with the architecture being used this generation.. Halo Infinite is a perfect example of this..

I'm simply saying launch games being "exclusive" to the PS5 or XSX doesn't mean the game couldn't have been released for the current-gen consoles as well.. those games have literal years of development time for current-gen before being positioned as next-gen launch titles..

Honestly, the above information/discussion might as well be rhetorical for all I care.. I just wanted to respond to what you posted since you took the time to respond.. if you continue to choose to respond to anything, please atleast respond to this:

my entire point is that the games that are already in the pipe like Halo Infinite, surely Forza Motorsports 8, and maybe another will be cross-gen and scalable.. These games will surely still be a showcase for Series X hardware but, since they were already developed with the Xbox One in mind, they'll clearly run there too..

The upcoming games that are just starting development and beyond will be released as Xbox Series S/X exclusives as the holdovers from current-gen are phased out a year or so into the generation..

This is ultimately what Matt Booty was saying in my interpretation..

Beyond that, I think it logically stands to reason that PS5 launch games didn't magically start development less than a year ago, "from the ground up" on PS5 Dev kits.. If that's the case, that's a pitifully short dev cycle.. These games likely started out as potential PS4 releases.. And I doubt they realized 2, 3, or 4 years into development that these games simply are too ambitious to run on PS4 so they'll wait and put them on PS5.. More likely than not, the decision to limit these games to the PS5 at launch is a business decision to move consoles, not a technical reason.. I have no doubt they'll look and perform far better on PS5 than on PS4.. But I do doubt they couldn't have also been released for PS4..

As far as Xbox Series X games not using the hardware to its full potential, I think if you're honest you'd admit that the very nature of launch titles don't use the hardware to full potential.. We typically don't see any real impact until a couple years in the generation. which is right in line with when Xbox Series games will cut ties with the weaker hardware..

If you disagree cool.. I think we all know that we disagree.. But just be clear in your stance moving forward because I think this conversation has moved off the rails quite a bit..

@goldenelementxl: I think you're aware of the monetary cut that Microsoft earns from selling games via their console store and their own PC store.. Not to mention what they get from Xbox Live, Game Pass, and Game Pass Ultimate subscriptions.. And this is before we even talk about XCloud and the partnerships and services they'll provide there..

There's money to be made regardless of if they ever "win" against Sony in hardware sales.. And if they could put Game Pass on PS5 and get Playstation fans to subscribe directly from those consoles, I bet they would in a heartbeat.. I actually expect them to bring Game Pass to Switch at some point in the near or distant future..

@Antwan3K: Microsoft was more than happy to give Steam a cut to put Halo MCC on their store. And I’m sure Microsoft was happy to actually sell a couple hundred thousand games instead of giving them away to some subscription. Why not go all the way and put them up on the Playststion store? All they would have to do is get out of the console business. Microsoft and yourself don’t seem to think selling consoles is important anyway.

If all you’re concerned about is userbase and being “consumer friendly,” then cut the shit and go all the way.

@goldenelementxl: Yeah, buying an Xbox game on Steam still means you have to create an Xbox Live account, adding to the active user count of the online service.. Do you think Sony would allow Xbox Live directly from PlayStation consoles?..

Having people subscribe to YOUR gaming service is a good thing.. i'm sorry if this is so confusing for you.. Having a 1st party console as a starting point for YOUR gaming store to sell 3rd party content, for YOUR gaming subscription service to be a focal point, and for YOUR 1st party games is good business..

Again, if PS5 lets Microsoft add to their Xbox Live user base and add to their Game Pass subs, i'm sure Microsoft is up for it..

@Antwan3K: Honestly I doubt MS would be up for releasing all their games on PS4. It makes more sense to do it for selected titles not just to increase sales but mostly to strengthen the brand.

@goldenelementxl: btw, what smartphone do you use?.. Because I'm curious to see which one of your asinine and outdated arguments you tolerate in that area..

According to you, if you can't "win" worldwide marketshare you should close up shop.. But Android hold about 87% of the worldwide mobile market?.. So according to you, Apple should just give up on their mobile division.. But we all know Apple is quite a successful mobile brand..

Also, according to you, if you don't keep your 1st party content exclusive, there no point in having 1st party hardware.. "you might as well go 3rd party".. We'll there isn't a major Google service that isn't available on iPhone while Apple keeps many of their services exclusive to their own hardware.. Yet, as stated before, Android is murdering Apple worldwide in mobile..

Its not apples-to-apples but just take a step back and realize there are more ways to make money in the gaming business than just winning a fanboy fueled console war..

LOL! You can tell who's toeing the line out here on that Xbox propaganda playbook. It's like they all read from the same script.

3k, the logical fallacy king.

@phbz: I honestly don't think Microsoft cares where you buy and play their games.. As long as you're buying and playing them..

I do admit there are likely some caveats though..

Microsoft clearly doesn't see the PC as a competing platform.. "PC" is ultimately a Microsoft owned entity so the success of PC gaming is a success for Microsoft.. All of these cows who supposedly have gaming PCs and are willing to buy Xbox games on those rigs instead of buying a Xbox console aren't "sticking it to Microsoft".. They're supporting Microsoft..

As far as a competing storefront in Steam to the Microsoft Store and a competing console in the Switch, both are willing to allow for mandatory Xbox Live accounts for Xbox 1st party content.. Sure they lose a percentage of money on the purchases but they gain Xbox Live users, mindshare, and software penetration..

As far as Playstation, I'd Imagine that if Sony was to do the same as Steam and Nintendo, Microsoft would jump at the chance.. But Sony likely never would allow a direct competitor to put their online gaming service and online subscription service on their bread and butter..

@Antwan3K: Smart phones cost as much as 2-3 consoles AND have exclusive apps. Thats a bad comparison but what else is new? You also brought up Netflix and them who also have exclusive content. The exclusive content attracts customers to their platform over the competition. Oh wait, your gonna tell us that’s “anti consumer”

You really are working overtime with the mental gymnastics trying to sell this board on the Xbox strategy. It’s not working though... You should see if Microsoft’s marketing team is hiring because you’d fit right in.

@goldenelementxl: Xbox 1st party games aren't exclusive to Game Pass in the same sense that Netflix original content is exclusive to Netflix?..

So what major Google apps are exclusive to Android?.. And if those apps are also available on iPhone, why do people bother buying Android?.. What phone do You have?..

@Antwan3K: Android is an operating system...

How can you be wrong about everything?!?!

@goldenelementxl: 1) if Google puts all their mobile apps on iPhone, according to you, why buy an Android phone?...

2) you have been the king of distractions and tangents in this thread.. For seemingly the 18th time, what exactly is your argument at this point???..

@Antwan3K: I honestly don't know what your argument is anymore. All I'm saying is that cross gen/multiplatform games target the lowest spec machine and go up from there. You seem to agree. So I don't know why you're writing paragraphs.

I'll quote 343's director again:

We're building it so Halo Infinite plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about.

That means Series X will be playing the Xbox One version of Halo Infinite with a few extra bells and whistles, as opposed to a Series X version of Halo Infinite with those bells and whistles as a base. Do you understand now?

Sony's going to have console exclusives from the start along with cross gen titles. Whatever they're doing, they're doing it more aggressively and efficiently than MS. Or MS is choosing to delay the cutoff for financial reasons which is what I believe.

@Zero_epyon: How about taking a quote from the very OP of this thread:

Our approach is to pick one or two IP that we’re going to focus on and make sure that they’re there at the launch of the console, taking advantage of all the features. And for us that’s going to be Halo Infinite, which is a big opportunity

That doesn't seem to quite paint the same picture you're trying to present.. Especially when we all know they are developing a PC version that will support the absolute top end possible.. You know as well as I do that game development usually starts at the top end and scales down, not the other way around.. They're just simply saying that the game will still play great on the base Xbox One..

@Antwan3K:

If that was true all MS games would be on Playstation they do care,they don't want the games on direct competition with their box.

Who will buy an xbox if their games are also on PS?

But once again this is the first time a NEW GEN console will come without exclusives experiences that you can only play on that platform.

And lemmings such as your self are basically owning them self left and right trying to justify it after hyping xbox exclusives launch games for YEARS.

Actually, if you read the entire section, he says this:

It’s the first time in over 15 years that we’ll have a Halo title launching in sync with a new console. And that team is definitely going to be doing things to take advantage of [Series X]

This lines up with 343's Director saying:

We're building it so Halo Infinite plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about.

You're wrong. Game development doesn't start at the top and scales down, it's quite the opposite. There may be some exceptions, but those are rare and are usually ports. It's why PC gamers dislike consoles, because more often than not, consoles are the target and the PC is the scaled version of those games which don't fully take advantage of their machines.

It's pretty clear from the two comments that the Xbox One Family, most likely the S, is the development target for Halo Infinite and they're going to add to it as the platforms get more powerful.

@Zero_epyon: Of course development starts at the S and then scales up. If you start at the X or Series X and scale down you could run into trouble. Dude is in here talking about large install bases and stuff but then believes development starts at the smallest install base / unreleased product? What sense does that make?

No sense whatsoever. But are you surprised? lol

@Antwan3K: FYI

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/127543/Carmack_PC_Not_The_Leading_Platform_For_Games.php

Read what John Carmack said about multiplatform development between PC and consoles.

"A high end PC is nearly 10 times as powerful as a console, and we could unquestionably provide a better experience if we chose that as our design point and we were able to expend the same amount of resources on it.

Nowadays most of the quality of a game comes from the development effort put into it, not the technology it runs on. A game built with a tenth the resources on a platform 10 times as powerful would be an inferior product in almost all cases."

He went on to note, "You can choose to design a game around the specs of a high-end PC and make console versions that fail to hit the design point, or design around the specs of the consoles and have a high-end PC provide incremental quality improvements. We chose the latter."

This is exactly how it's been working for the longest time. MS is doing no different with Halo.

We're building it so Halo Infinite plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One, and then everything else is plus-plus-plus, but we've got a few tricks up our sleeves that we're thinking about.

Start with a working Xbox One S game. Raise the resolution and effects for the X version, but not so much that it bogs the engine down and performance starts to suffer. Raise the quality even further on the Series X with a much more stable framerate and throw in some ray tracing if possible. Make all graphics options available on PC. After all of that, you're still running an Xbox One S game on Series X or PC and not a Series X or PC game scaled down to the Xbox One family.

You're not going to get the full potential of any MS game on a series X or PC. Not until MS drops support for the Xbox One.

@Zero_epyon: "taking advantage of all the features" is the same as saying "using the hardware to the fullest"..

there is no interpretation there that results in "target the lowest spec machine and go up from there"..

You seem to be under this weird impression that "taking advantage of all the features [on Xbox Series X]" and "building it so Halo Infinite plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One" are mutually exclusive..

If Microsoft targets the Xbox Series X and the PC to take full advantage of that hardware (which they are CLEARLY saying they are going to do), AND are able to make sure the game looks and plays well on the base Xbox One, then both goals are satisfied..

And at the end of the day, if Halo Infinite is "taking advantage of all the features" of the Xbox Series X and ALSO "plays and looks fantastic on Xbox One", that's a win/win no matter how you want to slice and spin it..

So bottomline: Microsoft is saying they are going to take full advantage of the Xbox Series X with Halo Infinite and the game will also look and play great on the Xbox One..

period..

this disputes every single claim to the contrary you can possibly make until the game is on store shelves and the end results can be analyzed by all..

Anything else?..

"taking advantage of all the features" is the same as saying "using the hardware to the fullest" I disagree. See my second post to you.

@goldenelementxl: so you think the latest PC games start development for the minimum specs and then scale up to the highest end?..

Also, what exactly is your argument at this point?..

@Zero_epyon: disagree all you want, that's what these discussions are for..

But "taking advantage of all the features [of the highest spec machine]" certainly doesnt directly equate to "target the lowest spec machine and go up from there", yet you're certainly hanging your hat on that one for some reason..

Your reply was a waste of time because you're asserting something that I've already addressed in another post you chose to ignore.

So you still crying about it?

Dude you claimed the damn MS cloud could make a game like crackdown 3 not work on PS4,dude the xbox cloud is little what it can do for the xbox one from a processing side of things,so again you are damage controlling the xbox Series X having no games you were exposed..lol

I read your post quoting something from a 2011 article.. dude, 2011.. and it doesn't dispute the fact that Microsoft has said (in 2020) that upcoming launch titles like Halo Infinite will take full advantage of the Xbox Series X..

If you disagree, cool.. but until the game is released and analyzed, what does your opinion amount to in comparison to an official statement from the Head of Microsoft Studios?..

@Antwan3K: If they were to take a full advantage of the XSX, the scope of Halo Infinite would change and it would not be able to run on the X1. The XSX version may have better graphic fidelity, increased performance, resolution, etc.., but it will essentially be the same game from a design and scope point of view. Obviously, you would want to play it on PC or XSX for quality.

@BassMan: yep but, respectfully, you are basing this on a fantasy..

a fantasy that PS5 launch titles were conceptualized, designed, and developed from the ground up solely with finalized PS5 hardware in mind.. I mean how long do you think devs have had finalized PS5 specs and/or dev kits?..

the reality is that these games were originally conceptualized, designed, and developed with the PS4 in mind.. just like Halo Infinite was originally designed with the Xbox One in mind..

The only difference is that Microsoft is saying "yeah, we're going to go ahead and release the Xbox One version we were already clearly working on"..

While Sony is potentially spouting idealized marketing about games being "developed from the ground up for PS5" in order to push console sales.. when we all know launch games this gen rarely represented anything more than games with better graphic fidelity, increased performance, and resolution.. next-gen is likely going to be more of the same from launch content..

The reality is games that will truly take 100% advantage of the PS5 and Xbox Series X are in early development as we speak.. not games that will be launching later this year, practically in a matter of months..

That's literally how game development works. If you wish to dismiss it, then you're going to have to provide evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, you're arguing from ignorance. I'm not wasting any more time on this if that's the case.

@Zero_epyon: oh so game development practices hit their pinnacle in 2011 and never evolved since?..

please tell us more about "The Cell", sir..

@Antwan3K: It all depends on the game and the developer. Some games begin their development cycle for next-gen before official dev kits are even available. These games are being developed with PCs and developers are involved early on in shaping what the next-gen hardware will be. So, target specs can be established early on.

A new console generation is like raising minimum requirements for PC. As games advance, the minimum requirements go up. So, for games releasing as cross-gen, that means that those games have limited advancement. If you are not required to move to the next-generation hardware to play a game, then it is more of the same, but with better quality.

We want to see true next-gen games that are using XSX/PS5 as the minimum requirement. This will benefit the advancement of PC gaming as well as it is all tied together.

@Antwan3K: Bruh, of course Microsoft told you Halo Infinite is taking full advantage of the Series X. They want you to buy Halo and a Series X! The problem is when the developers are out there talking a little too specific about things like optimization on multiple consoles. If the Series X was the lead platform for Halo Infinite, it wouldn’t run on the S and it would be compromised on the X. The devs design the game around the weakest console (because it’s also the majority of the install base) and add and enhance from there for the stronger consoles.

And before you start talking about PC again, how many PC games launched today run on a CPU and GPU as bad as those on the 2013 consoles?

I still see no evidence to the contrary...

Seriously. Give it a try and learn something instead of arguing from ignorance to defend MS. You're making a fool of yourself.

Correct! That's why Killzone Shadowfall had a PC engine initially and they developed against a PC that would have similar specs to the dev kit. They ended up learning a lot about what they could do with their engine before they got hold of a dev kit. At no point did they use a PS3 to develop Shadow Fall.

Ideally, I agree with you..

Realistically and historically, both PS4 and Xbox One didn't have any constraints from previous gen hardware and we got Killzone, Knack, Forza, Ryse, and etc..

I don't' think anyone said, either then or in hindsight, that those games pushed any significant boundaries in gameplay and/or innovation.. they were just larger and prettier versions of games we've been already playing..

@goldenelementxl: bruh, of course Sony told you that PS5-exclusive launch titles were developed from the ground up for PS5 and simply can't be done on PS4.. obviously, in order to get you to leave your PS4 and buy a PS5..

It's amazing how someone who claims to always be able to see through the marketing speak is seemingly so willing to buy this marketing speak.. hook, line, and sinker..

You admitted in this very thread that the PS4 launch games were shit.. and PS4 launch games were all exclusive to the PS4.. but now that Microsoft is doing something different, the math on that magically changes for the PS5?..

Also, what exactly is your argument at this point?..

oh ok, a 2011 based opinion trumps what was quoted in the OP on this thread by the Head of Microsoft Studios in 2020 concerning a game that Microsoft is developing..

sure, buddy.. sure..

the only person making a fool of themselves is you with articles linked from 2011 to address the develop claims of 2020..

@Antwan3K: Part of the problem is current-gen consoles launched with outdated shit CPUs. So, right from the start of this gen, this limited the types of games possible. The focus was always going to be on visuals for the entire gen. This shouldn't be an issue in this upcoming gen. Now it is up to the developers to make the most of it.

Visuals are nice, but advancement in simulations, AI, interactions, etc. is what I am looking forward to next-gen. I want more emergent gameplay where there are a lot of possibilities for fun because the game worlds are so rich and interactive.

@BassMan: we'll see I suppose.. i'm looking forward to all this "ground breaking innovation" we'll be seeing from PS5 launch titles..

We are going to be mind blown not with graphics but with other "stuff". ;)

That's an interesting way of saying "I have no evidence to support my argument"