Kojima is saying some pretty bold statements that could bite him in the ass later on but he said the E3 trailer was tuned to more current gen specs and that it will run much better on next gen platforms than what we saw.
I don't know about you but that sounds like some bullshit cos the footage was flat out gorgeous and not what current consoles can do
In an interview with Polygon, Kojima says that the team is currently focusing around the Fox engine on a PC development platform, but with the 360 and PS3 in mind. "While we were developing on current-gen," says Kojima, "next-gen came along. We're really trying to reach the peak of the current generation right now--360, PS3--and then see how much we can take it up for the next generation."
A certain degree of BS no doubt, but I believe he'll make good on it to some extent.
MGS1, 2 and 3 all looked good in initial footage and still saw major improvement by release. Â MGS4 was the only one to be dumbed down simply because he was mis-lead on PS3s specs.
A certain degree of BS no doubt, but I believe he'll make good on it to some extent.
MGS1, 2 and 3 all looked good in initial footage and still saw major improvement by release. Â MGS4 was the only one to be dumbed down simply because he was mis-lead on PS3s specs.
Wiimotefan
Meh, MGS4 on release still looks pretty close to the first footage of MGS4.
A certain degree of BS no doubt, but I believe he'll make good on it to some extent.
MGS1, 2 and 3 all looked good in initial footage and still saw major improvement by release. Â MGS4 was the only one to be dumbed down simply because he was mis-lead on PS3s specs.
princeofshapeir
Meh, MGS4 on release still looks pretty close to the first footage of MGS4.
Watch the TGS 05 footage, its not even close. Â Many games today still dont look that good.
A certain degree of BS no doubt, but I believe he'll make good on it to some extent.
MGS1, 2 and 3 all looked good in initial footage and still saw major improvement by release. Â MGS4 was the only one to be dumbed down simply because he was mis-lead on PS3s specs.
Wiimotefan
Meh, MGS4 on release still looks pretty close to the first footage of MGS4.
Watch the TGS 05 footage, its not even close. Â Many games today still dont look that good.
This?Â
I guess the final game doesn't match the visual fidelity displayed here, but it does come somewhat close. You should remember that MGS4 was billed as the big graphics king for PS3 back then, and actual system specs for the console weren't as concrete, not to mention Kojima got roped into making the game exclusively for PS3. Now that MGSV is multiplatform and we know a lot more about the capabilities of next-gen consoles than we did of the PS3 back in 2005, I think it's safe to say Kojima can be trusted.Â
How do you know what they can and cant do though?Heil68
Because other devs who make wonderful looking games like Naughty Dog are clearly struggling to get any more out of the systems even when they're dedicated to one single platform. There's just no way you would get that lighting, those animations and textures all onto the PS3 like that. not at that framerate anyway.Â
[QUOTE="princeofshapeir"] Meh, MGS4 on release still looks pretty close to the first footage of MGS4. princeofshapeir
Watch the TGS 05 footage, its not even close. Â Many games today still dont look that good.
This?Â
I guess the final game doesn't match the visual fidelity displayed here, but it does come somewhat close. You should remember that MGS4 was billed as the big graphics king for PS3 back then, and actual system specs for the console weren't as concrete, not to mention Kojima got roped into making the game exclusively for PS3. Now that MGSV is multiplatform and we know a lot more about the capabilities of next-gen consoles than we did of the PS3 back in 2005, I think it's safe to say Kojima can be trusted.Â
Absolutely, thats exactly what I'm saying. Â MGS4 was just the one fluke in his history of graphics improvement from unveil to release. Â He thought he had double the ram and a much better gpu to work with when this trailer was made.
And yes MGS4 was a real looker at the time of release, not denying that at all.
But I agree, I can trust his word on MGS5 improving as the circumstances are far different now.
Some people at gaf suggested that even before Kojima's statement, they said it's probably running on current-gen specs on PC but @1080p and 60FPS, thats why it looks like that. And Im pretty sure Kojima didn't under deliver in any of his games in terms of graphics ever, anyone remembers the MGS2 demo craze? everybody called BS on that and then the actual game looked the same.Â
Only game that down-scaled was MGS4 since he was misled on PS3 specs.
A certain degree of BS no doubt, but I believe he'll make good on it to some extent.
MGS1, 2 and 3 all looked good in initial footage and still saw major improvement by release. MGS4 was the only one to be dumbed down simply because he was mis-lead on PS3s specs.
Wiimotefan
Meh, MGS4 on release still looks pretty close to the first footage of MGS4.
Watch the TGS 05 footage, its not even close. Many games today still dont look that good.
Um it looked identical when it came out . MGS always does. The only diffrence is in MGS you see alot of dramatic camera angles wich make some scenes look more impressive then others. For its time MGS4 was an outstanding looking game.
Watch the TGS 05 footage, its not even close. Many games today still dont look that good.
Wiimotefan
This?
I guess the final game doesn't match the visual fidelity displayed here, but it does come somewhat close. You should remember that MGS4 was billed as the big graphics king for PS3 back then, and actual system specs for the console weren't as concrete, not to mention Kojima got roped into making the game exclusively for PS3. Now that MGSV is multiplatform and we know a lot more about the capabilities of next-gen consoles than we did of the PS3 back in 2005, I think it's safe to say Kojima can be trusted.
Absolutely, thats exactly what I'm saying. MGS4 was just the one fluke in his history of graphics improvement from unveil to release. He thought he had double the ram and a much better gpu to work with when this trailer was made.
And yes MGS4 was a real looker at the time of release, not denying that at all.
But I agree, I can trust his word on MGS5 improving as the circumstances are far different now.
The scene in the game looks identical to that, you guys confuse his cutscenes with gameplay. Its amazing what the right camera angles can do.
Cant believe the footage shown was scaled down... ps4 version is going to melt my eyeballs. Hopefully kojima can get that 60fps... will play that game forever
Tuned more inline doesn't mean tuned for. He probably just means he has a few more bells and whistles for the next-gen consoles over what was shown at E3.
I guess the final game doesn't match the visual fidelity displayed here, but it does come somewhat close. You should remember that MGS4 was billed as the big graphics king for PS3 back then, and actual system specs for the console weren't as concrete, not to mention Kojima got roped into making the game exclusively for PS3. Now that MGSV is multiplatform and we know a lot more about the capabilities of next-gen consoles than we did of the PS3 back in 2005, I think it's safe to say Kojima can be trusted.
AM-Gamer
Absolutely, thats exactly what I'm saying. MGS4 was just the one fluke in his history of graphics improvement from unveil to release. He thought he had double the ram and a much better gpu to work with when this trailer was made.
And yes MGS4 was a real looker at the time of release, not denying that at all.
But I agree, I can trust his word on MGS5 improving as the circumstances are far different now.
The scene in the game looks identical to that, you guys confuse his cutscenes with gameplay. Its amazing what the right camera angles can do.
No. Â No it does not. Â This isnt some mystery either, this was discussed to death long ago. Â It was an obvious downgrade and from Kojimas own mouth, the PC that this real time trailer ran on was higher spec than the finalized PS3 by at least double the ram and a better gpu. Â Sony downgraded the console so naturally Koji Pro had to adjust. Â Nothing wrong with that.
MGS4 also had well framed shots in its cutscenes and that didn't make it look as good as that trailer.
The TGS05 trailer features many aspects that are obviously superior. Â More use of dynamic lighting and shadows, a better light model and far superior shadow quality to the shadows in MGS4, consistently higher resolution textures, far more punch on the post effects (both in quality and quantity), and the particle systems aren't even comparable.
Beyond that, the amount of moving objects on screen + frame rate are noticeably superior to the final product. Â The only aspect that actually stayed the same was the geometry in most instances, but even small things like those 3 dimensional lattices are replaced by planar geo with opacity maps.
This is not an insult, the game looked great and I still find the look appealing today. Â Anyways.
Here is the first footage.
Here is one of the final trailers were everyone started freaking out about the downgrade.
And for comparisons sake, skip to 4:20 in this video. Â Its the cutscene from half way through Liquid Sun that mirrors part of the initial footage. Â Similar camera work since you think that makes the difference. Â
Absolutely, thats exactly what I'm saying. MGS4 was just the one fluke in his history of graphics improvement from unveil to release. He thought he had double the ram and a much better gpu to work with when this trailer was made.
And yes MGS4 was a real looker at the time of release, not denying that at all.
But I agree, I can trust his word on MGS5 improving as the circumstances are far different now.
Wiimotefan
The scene in the game looks identical to that, you guys confuse his cutscenes with gameplay. Its amazing what the right camera angles can do.
No. No it does not. This isnt some mystery either, this was discussed to death long ago. It was an obvious downgrade and from Kojimas own mouth, the PC that this real time trailer ran on was higher spec than the finalized PS3 by at least double the ram and a better gpu. Sony downgraded the console so naturally Koji Pro had to adjust. Nothing wrong with that.
MGS4 also had well framed shots in its cutscenes and that didn't make it look as good as that trailer.
The TGS05 trailer features many aspects that are obviously superior. More use of dynamic lighting and shadows, a better light model and far superior shadow quality to the shadows in MGS4, consistently higher resolution textures, far more punch on the post effects (both in quality and quantity), and the particle systems aren't even comparable.
Beyond that, the amount of moving objects on screen + frame rate are noticeably superior to the final product. The only aspect that actually stayed the same was the geometry in most instances, but even small things like those 3 dimensional lattices are replaced by planar geo with opacity maps.
This is not an insult, the game looked great and I still find the look appealing today. Anyways.
Here is the first footage.
Here is one of the final trailers were everyone started freaking out about the downgrade.
And for comparisons sake, skip to 4:20 in this video. Its the cutscene from half way through Liquid Sun that mirrors part of the initial footage. Similar camera work since you think that makes the difference.
Yes it was discussed to death and debunked time and time again. The PS3 was never said to have 1 gig of ram ever, and the GPU was never downgraded . It was alwa a 7800gt class GPU. Look at the third person footage it looks identical . The only thing that looks good about the TGS footage is the FPS footage which the game is rarely played in. The textures are of no higher quality, look at the ones of the wall in the TGS trailer . Not to mention you know as well as I do you couldnt see fine texture details by looking at badly compressed youtube videos. Fanboys posted side by side pics time an time agian back in 2008 and the ultimate result was they looked the same.
Kojima would always improve his lighting during cutscenes and the TGS trailer has 0 gameplay in it. Its esentially what that scene would look like if it was pure cutscene. The scene when he meets big boss in the cemetary looked far superior then anything that was shown at TGS.
Yes it was discussed to death and debunked time and time again. The PS3 was never said to have 1 gig of ram ever, and the GPU was never downgraded . It was alwa a 7800gt class GPU. Look at the third person footage it looks identical . The only thing that looks good about the TGS footage is the FPS footage which the game is rarely played in. The textures are of no higher quality, look at the ones of the wall in the TGS trailer . Not to mention you know as well as I do you couldnt see fine texture details by looking at badly compressed youtube videos. Fanboys posted side by side pics time an time agian back in 2008 and the ultimate result was they looked the same.
AM-Gamer
You can tell the difference in the videos, but high res official images were also provided and they look much better than MGS4.
This was long before final specs. Â It was running on a PC. Â The architecture wasn't even similar and at the time Kojimas team had no experience with the PS3. Â That footage was built on a vague estimation and nothing more. Â They had no idea what hurdles they would come into.
I don't mean this as a joke or an insult. Â If you truly don't see the clear difference you need to make an appointment with an eye doctor.
However, I suspect your vision, or lack thereof, is not the issue here. Â You seem to be taking strong evidence of a downgrade as an insult and you're being overly defensive. Â This happens in gaming all the time, especially so at a generation transition. Â
I've worked on 8 launched titles to date and only one was seen through to the end without a visual downgrade. Â It happens.
Kojima would always improve his lighting during cutscenes and the TGS trailer has 0 gameplay in it. Its esentially what that scene would look like if it was pure cutscene. The scene when he meets big boss in the cemetary looked far superior then anything that was shown at TGS.
AM-Gamer
:lol:
Give it up bud. Â You're arguing against well known facts and grasping hard. Â Might as well keep hoping for Wardevil to become a real game at that rate.
MGSIV looks excellent but even in its best moments it doesn't look like that first trailer.
too bad it will be just like previous. 80% cutscenes and 20% gameplaySNIPER4321
I wont deny MGS having far too much exhibition, but the point is moot.
MGS games are designed around replay value. Â So much so that you cant even enjoy every facet in just one play through. Â If you pull a one and done with MGS you're doing it completely wrong.
MGS5 and Infamous : Second Son. are by far and away the most anticpated games i want on that's only available on consoles. and i'll get them both on the PS4.Â
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MGS5 was the one game this entire E3, where i literal had a thrill just watching the red band extended cut trailer. simply cannot wait.Â
I saw some low res textures and lack of polygons (horses' tails). I think it's pretty possible that a GPU less powerful than the PS4's might be running the game.
"I'm sure you're worried about if the cutscenes are as long as Metal Gear Solid 4," Kojima said during an E3 roundtable. "Since this time around we're using an open world environment," Metal Gear Solid V will have "less cutscenes [than before]." Because you'll be exploring, you'll have fewer opportunities to run into a cutscene that takes control away.Kojima
Not that I mind those amazing cutscenes he makes but it makes sense if you are not so lazy to think about it, the game is a huge open world playground, how could it possibly be less gameplay?
If this is true that's pretty incredible, because for me MGS5 was by far the most impressive game graphically at E3. Those environments look real, if you were to just glance at portions of the video you could mistake it for real life.
I doubt it will look better than what we saw, but who knows.
"I'm sure you're worried about if the cutscenes are as long as Metal Gear Solid 4," Kojima said during an E3 roundtable. "Since this time around we're using an open world environment," Metal Gear Solid V will have "less cutscenes [than before]." Because you'll be exploring, you'll have fewer opportunities to run into a cutscene that takes control away.Kojima
Not that I mind those amazing cutscenes he makes but it makes sense if you are not so lazy to think about it, the game is a huge open world playground, how could it possibly be less gameplay?
That does sound about right, I believe the ratio wil be much better.
But the funny part is, Kojima also said that MGS4 would be less heavy handed with the cutscenes than the previous titles. Â I remember people raging about that news. Â But then we saw how MGS4 turned out lol.
If this is true that's pretty incredible, because for me MGS5 was by far the most impressive game graphically at E3. Those environments look real, if you were to just glance at portions of the video you could mistake it for real life.
I doubt it will look better than what we saw, but who knows.
He doesn't say flat-out that it was running on current-generation hardware. What he seems to be suggesting is that when they made it they were working with current generation technology in mind (albeit with scope to scale to what they hoped the next generation could do). Now they know precisely what the next generation is they can take greater advantage of that hardware. At least that is what I got from it.
[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]I saw some low res textures and lack of polygons (horses' tails). I think it's pretty possible that a GPU less powerful than the PS4's might be running the game. Precisely. When Kojima is talking about the next-generation he means leaps in visual fidelity/optimisation like horse-ass tessellation.
Watch the TGS 05 footage, its not even close. Â Many games today still dont look that good.
Wiimotefan
This?Â
I guess the final game doesn't match the visual fidelity displayed here, but it does come somewhat close. You should remember that MGS4 was billed as the big graphics king for PS3 back then, and actual system specs for the console weren't as concrete, not to mention Kojima got roped into making the game exclusively for PS3. Now that MGSV is multiplatform and we know a lot more about the capabilities of next-gen consoles than we did of the PS3 back in 2005, I think it's safe to say Kojima can be trusted.Â
Absolutely, thats exactly what I'm saying. Â MGS4 was just the one fluke in his history of graphics improvement from unveil to release. Â He thought he had double the ram and a much better gpu to work with when this trailer was made.
And yes MGS4 was a real looker at the time of release, not denying that at all.
But I agree, I can trust his word on MGS5 improving as the circumstances are far different now.
It still is a real looker. The attention to detail in MGS games trumps almost every other game out there. Just look at the air behind the exhaust vents on a Gekko, or all of the little things you see the mansion in South America.
No way in hell that trailer was running on current gen consoles spec. I think that "more tuned to current gen specs" is a vague and bullshit statement. Close to current gen, by how much? The final game can be better, because this is still in development, but I refuse to believe that PS3/360 version will look anywhere near that E3 trailer.
No way in hell that trailer was running on current gen consoles spec. I think that "more tuned to current gen specs" is a vague and bullshit statement. Close to current gen, by how much? The final game can be better, because this is still in development, but I refuse to believe that PS3/360 version will look anywhere near that E3 trailer.rjdofu
I do agree with this. Â If that can run on current gen tech then congrats Kojima, you win graphics king this gen :P. Â I would be impressed as hell if it runs like it does at a smoothe framerate.
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