it's obvious this guys has nothing more to say than lol @ long cutscenes, go read some reviews of the game and see what they have to say about the length of cutscens and story telling
[QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="meconate"] Now you're losing the plot. This isn't about books, this is about a game. We all know there are probably tens and thousands of novels better than video game storytelling. C'mon, many games are inspired by novels, so that's a little obvious. We're talking GAME standard, MGS has a pretty damn good story, IN MY OPINION, doesn't have to be yours and your "long cutscene" hatred. I don't hate long cutscenes. They're just a poor storytelling method in games. Games are interactive, and long cutscenes are the antithesis of that. Shenmue 1 and 2 have more storytelling than gameplay, and as far as I can remember, pretty lengthy cutscenes and that's a brilliant game. Haven't finished either, so I won't debate that point with you.
it's obvious this guys has nothing more to say than lol @ long cutscenes, go read some reviews of the game and see what they have to say about the length of cutscens and story tellingKevinButlerVP
You picked out one point in my argument and set it up as a straw man. No one is falling for this.
[QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"]it's obvious this guys has nothing more to say than lol @ long cutscenes, go read some reviews of the game and see what they have to say about the length of cutscens and story tellingDarkLink77
You picked out one point in my argument and set it up as a straw man. No one is falling for this. when u put it all together, ur hate on this game revolves around it having long cutscenes
[QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="meconate"] Shenmue 1 and 2 have more storytelling than gameplay, and as far as I can remember, pretty lengthy cutscenes and that's a brilliant game. Haven't finished either, so I won't debate that point with you. Honesty, amazing games... maybe not to everyone's taste, but if you appreciate the time and effort put into this game despite the console it's released on, it's simply a beauty. Brings back so many memories. Good to see someone still owns a Dreamcast! :D I love the bloody thing, and I actually own Shenmue 1. Just never got around to finishing it. :)
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"]it's obvious this guys has nothing more to say than lol @ long cutscenes, go read some reviews of the game and see what they have to say about the length of cutscens and story tellingKevinButlerVP
You picked out one point in my argument and set it up as a straw man. No one is falling for this. when u put it all together, ur hate on this game revolves around it having long cutscenes Nope, it also has bad dialogue, overuses plot points, and is incredibly convoluted. Long cutscenes are actually the least of it's problems, and stem from the others.
[QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="meconate"] Honesty, amazing games... maybe not to everyone's taste, but if you appreciate the time and effort put into this game despite the console it's released on, it's simply a beauty. Brings back so many memories. Good to see someone still owns a Dreamcast! :D I love the bloody thing, and I actually own Shenmue 1. Just never got around to finishing it. :) I own both, plus Sonic Adventure, Dynamite Cop, Blue Stinger and a few others. Does your DC make the same ringing noise because the batteries on the memory card have ran out? Such a familiar sound. I have lots of Dreamcast games. I wish I had Sonic Adventure, though. That's probably my greatest failing as a DC owner. :( Nope, my memory cards still work fine. I'm trying to keep them alive as long as possible. :P
[QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] You picked out one point in my argument and set it up as a straw man. No one is falling for this.DarkLink77
when u put it all together, ur hate on this game revolves around it having long cutscenes Nope, it also has bad dialogue, overuses plot points, and is incredibly convoluted. Long cutscenes are actually the least of it's problems, and stem from the others.
Well then post how it has bad dialogue, overused plot points, and is convoluted
[QUOTE="Jared2720"]MGS4 was about fan service. If Kojima had revamped the gameplay mechanics that many of us have grown up with, more people would have been upset than happy. The game is just fine. Its score is a testament to this. Superb game. Why would hardcore MGS fans like myself (yes i love MGS) hate the change? Considering the improvement would be much more satisfying gameplay-wise. What does the age old forumala have to do with fan service, it has more to do with story/characters. The forumla worked for past games, but now it needs improving IMO. Snake always seemed less badarse due to his abilities, i could only imagine how sweet MGS4 would have been with mechanic's of splinter cell...forceful, quicker, stronger.
[QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="meconate"] I own both, plus Sonic Adventure, Dynamite Cop, Blue Stinger and a few others. Does your DC make the same ringing noise because the batteries on the memory card have ran out? Such a familiar sound. I have lots of Dreamcast games. I wish I had Sonic Adventure, though. That's probably my greatest failing as a DC owner. :( Nope, my memory cards still work fine. I'm trying to keep them alive as long as possible. :P I used to own more DC games... I probably still do just can't find them. By the way, despite me mocking Half Life's story, it's still a great fun game, I just don't reckon much storywise, but everything else is great without a doubt. Looking back I just can't believe we went off topic from the GAMEPLAY needs to be changed to the STORY needs to be changed... :P Me neither. It's totally my fault, though. 8)
[QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] You picked out one point in my argument and set it up as a straw man. No one is falling for this.DarkLink77
when u put it all together, ur hate on this game revolves around it having long cutscenes Nope, it also has bad dialogue, overuses plot points, and is incredibly convoluted. Long cutscenes are actually the least of it's problems, and stem from the others. Tha'ts MGS, in order for Hideo to tell a complete story with character development those CUTSCENES and dialog are needed, otherwise people would be scratching their heads. It isn't evenones game, sure. Just the gameplay bothers me.
[QUOTE="soapandbubbles"][QUOTE="Jared2720"]MGS4 was about fan service. If Kojima had revamped the gameplay mechanics that many of us have grown up with, more people would have been upset than happy. The game is just fine. Its score is a testament to this. Superb game. Why would hardcore MGS fans like myself (yes i love MGS) hate the change? Considering the improvement would be much more satisfying gameplay-wise. What does the age old forumala have to do with fan service, it has more to do with story/characters. The forumla worked for past games, but now it needs improving IMO. Snake always seemed less badarse due to his abilities, i could only imagine how sweet MGS4 would have been with mechanic's of splinter cell...forceful, quicker, stronger. Snake was an old man.
[QUOTE="Jared2720"]MGS4 was about fan service. If Kojima had revamped the gameplay mechanics that many of us have grown up with, more people would have been upset than happy. The game is just fine. Its score is a testament to this. Superb game.soapandbubbles
Why would hardcore MGS fans like myself (yes i love MGS) hate the change? Considering the improvement would be much more satisfying gameplay-wise. What does the age old forumala have to do with fan service, it has more to do with story/characters. The forumla worked for past games, but now it needs improving IMO. Snake always seemed less badarse due to his abilities, i could only imagine how sweet MGS4 would have been with mechanic's of splinter cell...forceful, quicker, stronger.
Maybe added into the metal gear franchise. Not completely replacing it.
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="KevinButlerVP"] ok then, how is the story bad?meconate
Where shall I start? The verbal diarrhea that all the characters repeatedly spew, most of which is reminding the player of what they already know, again, and again, and again? 30 minute cutscenes? That is not good storytelling in video games. That is showing someone the story. That works fine in books and movies. In games, you should be allowing the player to interact as much as possible. It rips you out of the immersion completely. The story is overly convoluted. That does not make it complex. It means you as the writer, have failed to tell it well. Use of the same plot devices to explain away everything over and over again (clones, nanomachines, etc). Overuse of plot devices causes them to lose relevance, and it feels contrived. Look, I don't have time to type a 10 page essay on what's wrong with the storytelling in the MGS universe. But anyone who has ever studied writing/storytelling is going to have a major problem with it. No, MGS does have a good story, does have a good plot and if you can't put up with the cutscenes, why did you play the game in the first place. Any hardcore fan of the MGS series would hate to see any of this being ripped out of the game. Let's be honest, it's got a much better story than most of the games going today. Could I have a good example of a brilliant story in a game? PlaneScape Torment. As much I enjoyed the MGS games MGS4 story wasn't that great especially compared to MGS1-3 (especially 3)
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