Microsoft needs to recall EVERY Xbox360 to regain the market's trust.

[QUOTE="Heil68"]So yea, only Sony can recover and a mutli billion dollar company cant..right?..go awayZeke129

Again your argument makes no sense. Sony DID recover. But Microsoft is the one with the problems now and that's what we're talking about.

And until Microsoft rights their wrongs, I intend to keep talking about it.

Except MS is facing agreater problem than what the ps2 did. Gaining back credibility to the consumers is one of the hardest things to do for any business industry.

If you bought a faulty ford, are you going to buy one again?

GM didn't recall their chevy ventures with the electric doors until 26 bones were broken. dodge didn't recall their durangos/dakotas for bad ball joints until they were forced to due to over 400 accidents. chevy still hasn't recalled the airbag sensor in their 00-04 impalas that causes the airbag not to function due to bad grounds. they haven't recalled it because an airbag failing to discharge doesn't kill anybody.

SIP_YEK_NOD

Those are because American auto manufacturers have a hard enough time making money when their vehicles work, but that's beside the point. I was simply using the Dodge Caravan as an example.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Zeke129"][QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

most would. but 5 buisness days to exchange 10 million consoles? if every 360 is bound to fail within 3 years. it would be much easier to replace them on an as-failed basis, with newer technologies going into the longer living consoles. MS would be taking a completely unnessecary financial hit. there is nothing wrong with what they are doing now. a Recall wouldn't help anybody, and would seriously damage the systems image in the mainstream media.

outlawz247

I don't think the system's image can be hurt any more than it already is, sorry.

360 defects are even worse than the ps2. I have to admit thoughI've been lucky hatmyps2 is still running without any problems for 4 years. But the 360? The defect is apunch in the face.

Link? Or, hell, ANY facts to back that statement up?

[QUOTE="Zeke129"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]So yea, only Sony can recover and a mutli billion dollar company cant..right?..go awayHeil68

Again your argument makes no sense. Sony DID recover. But Microsoft is the one with the problems now and that's what we're talking about.

And until Microsoft rights their wrongs, I intend to keep talking about it.

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Link? Or, hell, ANY facts to back that statement up?

Verge_6

Please, get with the program.

[QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

GM didn't recall their chevy ventures with the electric doors until 26 bones were broken. dodge didn't recall their durangos/dakotas for bad ball joints until they were forced to due to over 400 accidents. chevy still hasn't recalled the airbag sensor in their 00-04 impalas that causes the airbag not to function due to bad grounds. they haven't recalled it because an airbag failing to discharge doesn't kill anybody.

Zeke129

Those are because American auto manufacturers have a hard enough time making money when their vehicles work, but that's beside the point. I was simply using the Dodge Caravan as an example.

and i was simply point out what a flawed example it was.

Your argument fails. (As does the poster above you, but quoting the smaller post makes more sense)

If the DVD player in the Dodge Caravan started failing, they'd issue a recall on the vehicles. It wouldn't be able to cause crashes, but it's still a problem that requires taking the whole vehicle in for service.

Zeke129

You're right, they would issue a recall on the vehicles. I have seen it happen for such things. But a Dodge Caravan costs far more than an Xbox 360 does. Dodge Carvans can cost upwards of $20,000. If something small is defective on it, GM can afford a replacement on the small component because their revenue from the overall sale of the automobile tremendously outweighs the price of that component (such as a DVD player). And for a defective component like this, customers do NOT get brand new Dodge Caravans.

This is in stark contrast to issuing a product recall on the Xbox 360 and getting brand new Xbox 360s. This would probably kill Microsoft's games division.

I don't see why you have such a big problem with Microsoft's 3 year warranty. If the console fails, customers get it replaced free of charge with Microsoft's alternations to the system architecture.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

Link? Or, hell, ANY facts to back that statement up?

Zeke129

Please, get with the program.

Ohhh, tut tut tut. Did you read, or simply glaze over it? See the words like 'could' and 'possibly' in the article? Nor does this prove that the 360 is more faulty than the PS2 ever was.

I don't see why you have such a big problem with Microsoft's 3 year warranty. If the console fails, customers get it replaced free of charge with Microsoft's alternations to the system architecture.

thinicer

No, they get a refurbished unit that will probably break, too.

And the warranty, yes, is a good thing. But if they just worked in the first place, this would never have happened. It's annoying when you have to send a console back and wait two weeks.

Ohhh, tut tut tut. Did you read, or simply glaze over it? See the words like 'could' and 'possibly' in the article?

Verge_6

Get with the program, again. We're discussing the defect rate, not the fault rate. If you have read the thread, you'd know the difference.

At least Microsoft did admit and told the public about their systems, but come on, a recall? Plus at least Microsoft did not keep this under the rug or something, all systems have problems not just 360. I do not think all console are defective, some work fine, alot more work great! Mine does, ( If it were to die...) Also People are not going to stop buying 360s, defective or not, It still great games on it, (Besides Halo, and the obvious ones)

And stop making a big deal out of it, all console have defects, I'm guessing the PS3 and Wii has some of their own.....

[QUOTE="thinicer"]

I don't see why you have such a big problem with Microsoft's 3 year warranty. If the console fails, customers get it replaced free of charge with Microsoft's alternations to the system architecture.

Zeke129

No, they get a refurbished unit that will probably break, too.

And the warranty, yes, is a good thing. But if they just worked in the first place, this would never have happened. It's annoying when you have to send a console back and wait two weeks.

are you thick? the replacement recall units would come from the same place as one-by-one warranty replacement units. if everything just worked in the first place, this would be a much happier world.

Ohhh, tut tut tut. Did you read, or simply glaze over it? See the words like 'could' and 'possibly' in the article?

Verge_6

Get with the program, again. We're discussing the defect rate, not the fault rate. If you have read the thread, you'd know the difference.

the whole basis of your argument is that the defect rate = the fault rate. you are the one who doesn't know the difference.

How much do you think it will cost them?

XenogearsMaster

Less than a class action lawsuit.

Get with the program, again. We're discussing the defect rate, not the fault rate. If you have read the thread, you'd know the difference.

Zeke129

I wasn't even talking to you. I was talking to the person who said that the 360 had a higher defect rate than the PS2, and I asked for proof. Then, you waltz in in all your pompous glory, telling me to 'get with the program'. :|

No, they get a refurbished unit that will probably break, too.

And the warranty, yes, is a good thing. But if they just worked in the first place, this would never have happened. It's annoying when you have to send a console back and wait two weeks. Zeke129

So you want Microsoft's games division to go completely under just because you don't want to be inconvenienced for two weeks while they repair your broken console? Wow, that's pretty selfish.

And by the way, the refurbished units will get Microsoft's new architecture when it becomes available, ie. the smaller die chips that are 65nm. They are cheaper to produce, and Microsoft would rather put them in the repaired Xbox 360s than the more expensive, and defective, boards you keep mentioning. Refurbished Xbox 360s are already seeing changes, getting a 2nd heatsink, etc. The pictures are out there, but you may have missed this.

are you thick? the replacement recall units would come from the same place as one-by-one warranty replacement units. if everything just worked in the first place, this would be a much happier world.

SIP_YEK_NOD

No, read my first post again. I want the recalled units to come from a new line of consoles that are fixed. Currently, the "one-by-one warranty units" are refurbished.

the whole basis of your argument is that the defect rate = the fault rate. you are the one who doesn't know the difference.

SIP_YEK_NOD

Okay, let's switch over to the 33% we KNOW are broken. That's still extremely bad and worse than any mainstream console in history.

Oh, and don't forget that the defect rate will eventually equal the fault rate.

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="Zeke129"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"]So yea, only Sony can recover and a mutli billion dollar company cant..right?..go awaySIP_YEK_NOD

Again your argument makes no sense. Sony DID recover. But Microsoft is the one with the problems now and that's what we're talking about.

And until Microsoft rights their wrongs, I intend to keep talking about it.

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Okay, let's switch over to the 33% we KNOW are broken. That's still extremely bad and worse than any mainstream console in history.

Oh, and don't forget that the defect rate will eventually equal the fault rate.

Zeke129

How do we know? Because some anonymous retailer said so? REAL valid intel right there. :|

[QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Heil68

Hey, a total logic breakdown. Well, I can play the "post pictures" game, too!

[QUOTE="Zeke129"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]

Link? Or, hell, ANY facts to back that statement up?

Verge_6

Please, get with the program.

Ohhh, tut tut tut. Did you read, or simply glaze over it? See the words like 'could' and 'possibly' in the article? Nor does this prove that the 360 is more faulty than the PS2 ever was.

Not to mention you can't really effectivly compare PS2 to a xbox360.. A Xbox360 is a great deal more complicated...

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Zeke129

Hey, a total logic breakdown. Well, I can play the "post pictures" game, too!

Tell me, are you this assinine in real life? I've seen some pretty devoted debators, but you are just plain pompous and rude.

[QUOTE="Zeke129"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Verge_6

Hey, a total logic breakdown. Well, I can play the "post pictures" game, too!

Tell me, are this assinine in real life?

And now we're turning to personal attacks.

I'll claim my victory now.

[QUOTE="Zeke129"]

Okay, let's switch over to the 33% we KNOW are broken. That's still extremely bad and worse than any mainstream console in history.

Oh, and don't forget that the defect rate will eventually equal the fault rate.

Verge_6

How do we know? Because some anonymous retailer said so? REAL valid intel right there. :|

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Zeke129"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Zeke129

Hey, a total logic breakdown. Well, I can play the "post pictures" game, too!

Tell me, are this assinine in real life?

And now we're resulting to personal attacks.

I'll claim my victory now.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Zeke129"][QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

there vas no price fiasco, you saw nossing, NOSSING!

Zeke129

Hey, a total logic breakdown. Well, I can play the "post pictures" game, too!

Tell me, are this assinine in real life?

And now we're resulting to personal attacks.

I'll claim my victory now.

:lol: That statement just confirmed my theory. It's another Dualshockin.. The whole' I am serious and humorless, and are therefore superior to you in every way' bit.

:lol: That statement just confirmed my theory. It's another Dualshockin.. The whole' I am serious and humorless, and are therefore superior to you in every way' bit.

Verge_6

Last I checked this was a debate forum. Debates are meant to be productive, are they not?

[QUOTE="SIP_YEK_NOD"]

are you thick? the replacement recall units would come from the same place as one-by-one warranty replacement units. if everything just worked in the first place, this would be a much happier world.

Zeke129

No, read my first post again. I want the recalled units to come from a new line of consoles that are fixed. Currently, the "one-by-one warranty units" are refurbished.

and your evidence being? you think microsoft is going to want to pay for shipping back and forth and back and forth, and anger customers? if a new, fault free version of the 360 is out there, that is what the one-byone warranty units will be replaced with.

the whole basis of your argument is that the defect rate = the fault rate. you are the one who doesn't know the difference.

SIP_YEK_NOD

Okay, let's switch over to the 33% we KNOW are broken. That's still extremely bad and worse than any mainstream console in history.

Oh, and don't forget that the defect rate will eventually equal the fault rate.

it can be argued that the launch ps2s had a 100% defect rate. bad disk drives, yet not all of them failed. it can be argued that every thompson drive xbox 1 was faulty, yet mine is still running fine. a 100% defect rate does not gaurantee a 100% failure rate

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

:lol: That statement just confirmed my theory. It's another Dualshockin.. The whole' I am serious and humorless, and are therefore superior to you in every way' bit.

Zeke129

Last I checked this was a debate forum. Debates are meant to be productive, are they not?

You ACTUALLY think everything should be serious in this board? The SYSTEM WARS board? And you've been here for HOW long? Debates ARE meant to be productive, but they are NOT meant to be a platform to inflate your ego to the size of the Hindenburg.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

:lol: That statement just confirmed my theory. It's another Dualshockin.. The whole' I am serious and humorless, and are therefore superior to you in every way' bit.

Zeke129

Last I checked this was a debate forum. Debates are meant to be productive, are they not?

[QUOTE="Zeke129"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]

:lol: That statement just confirmed my theory. It's another Dualshockin.. The whole' I am serious and humorless, and are therefore superior to you in every way' bit.

Verge_6

Last I checked this was a debate forum. Debates are meant to be productive, are they not?

You ACTUALLY think everything should be serious in this board? The SYSTEM WARS board? And you've been here for HOW long? Debates ARE meant to be productive, but they are NOT meant to be a platform to inflate your ego to the size of the Hindenburg.

So, you're going to sit that and tell us you are REALLY concerned for 360 owners, right? You don't have one, but are looking out for our interest's right? You're on 'our' side, right? You want us to be satisfied, right? You don't care about the forum is SW and we may think you're a fanboy of Sony, hating on MS right?Heil68

Well, I don't think he has any grounds to complain about Microsoft and the Xbox 360 because he doesn't have one. Don't know why he's so upset about this. I don't think he's genuinely upset at all - I think he's just trying to create anti-MS sentiment on these boards among Xbox 360 owners in the hopes that they will convert to a PS3. I think that's what he's trying to achieve. He shouldn't waste his time though. There are more important things in the world to fight for.

Well, I don't think he has any grounds to complain about Microsoft and the Xbox 360 because he doesn't have one. Don't know why he's so upset about this. I don't think he's genuinely upset at all - I think he's just trying to create anti-MS sentiment on these boards among Xbox 360 owners in the hopes that they will convert to a PS3. I think that's what he's trying to achieve. He shouldn't waste his time though. There are more important things in the world to fight for.

thinicer

Yeah, but making a thread to stop AIDS in Africa would get me moderated in System Wars, and result in "lolz aids lol" replies. I could care less if people get a PS3.

And I DO have a right to complain about the 360, just as you have the right to complain about the PS3. (Or whatever console(s) you don't own, I don't know) It's not like I'm lieing here.

It's how System Wars works.

I don't think the system's image can be hurt any more than it already is, sorry.

Yea, sony really messed up this gen...

and what are the symptoms of a faulty 360?LinKuei_warrior

A 360 logo?

I kid, I kid. Red ring o' death, restarts, scratched disks.... the list goes and goes.

[QUOTE="LinKuei_warrior"]and what are the symptoms of a faulty 360?Zeke129

A 360 logo?

I kid, I kid. Red ring o' death, restarts, scratched disks.... the list goes and goes.

That is why you dont win jack...Complain all you want...I will too Heil68

Wow, definitely haven't seen that before.

[QUOTE="Heil68"]That is why you dont win jack...Complain all you want...I will too Zeke129

Wow, definitely haven't seen that before.

I'm sure others will come up with better..We'll keep you informed, like you do us on your 'concerns' for the 360.Heil68

Everyone already knows the PS3 is expensive. Most people don't know the 360 is really defective.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6173660.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newsmakerfeatured&tag=featurednewsmaker;title;5

Now you have 2 options

Option #1: Show me in that article where MS 'admits' having a 100% defective rate

or

Option #2 : Quit citing that pathetic Australian site because that article is a blatent lie that cows have been using to try to claim ownage.

IF MS admitted that 360's were 100% faulty, the US mainstream press would be all over them, not some Australian dingaling...

[QUOTE="Heil68"]I'm sure others will come up with better..We'll keep you informed, like you do us on your 'concerns' for the 360.Zeke129

Everyone already knows the PS3 is expensive. Most people don't know the 360 is really defective.

so are you looking to spread a rumour that if you buy a 360 it WILL fail, or are you looking out for prospective 360 owners, because i can tell you which of those it looks like you are doing.(and its not the one that doesn't make you look like a total douchebag)

Option #1: Show me in that article where MS 'admits' having a 100% defective rate

DXGreat1_HGL

Surely you trust Yahoo.

Microsoft said it had discovered console flaws that cause hardware failures signaled by three flashing red lights.

The problem is one of Xbox 360 design, not something caused during assembly, according to Bach.

MS

There you go, a direct quote. It's a design flaw, and because the design is the same on all consoles.....

you can put two and two together.

[QUOTE="DXGreat1_HGL"]

Option #1: Show me in that article where MS 'admits' having a 100% defective rate

Zeke129

Surely you trust Yahoo.

Microsoft said it had discovered console flaws that cause hardware failures signaled by three flashing red lights.

The problem is one of Xbox 360 design, not something caused during assembly, according to Bach.

MS

There you go, a direct quote. It's a design flaw, and because the design is the same on all consoles.....

you can put two and two together.

So you're a certified Electronic Technician now? Because unless MS tested all 11.6 million sold 360's, you can't say its 100% defective. They might all have the same electronic componants , but no 2 systems would be exactly alike. You might have 2 100 ohm resistors but the measured resistance would not be the same due to tolerence.

So you're a certified Electronic Technician now? Because unless MS tested all 11.6 million sold 360's, you can't say its 100% defective. They might all have the same electronic componants , but no 2 systems would be exactly alike. You might have 2 100 ohm resistors but the measured resistance would not be the same due to tolerence.

DXGreat1_HGL

It's a heat dissipation issue. I can realize that if a design issue causes heat problems in one console, it will cause heat problems in them ALL until the design is changed.

The design hasn't been changed yet. Therefore, they ALL have heat problems.

I doubt that microsoft is just going to ship faulty 360's to the world and be that ignorant. If they aren't fixing the problem or don't know how to, they wouldn't have admitted that the 360's design is faulty. I bet they now know how to fix the problem and if a 360 breaks in the next 3 years, they'll fix it. And besides, they're going to upgrade the 360 with the 65 nm chip. The 360 that they gave the code name falcon.