Microsoft owns the PC platform as well. Why else would Halo and Halo 2 come out

[QUOTE="crusadernm"]

[QUOTE="Parasomniac"]Microsoft doesn't own the PC. Their Games for Windows Live flopped when they tried making people pay. Valve owns PC more than Microsoft does.shadow_hosi

Which would change the PC landscape more if they got out of the business. Microsoft or valve. I rest my case.

if microsoft goes out of business, nobody will care, everyone will start using linux an the world will keep spinning

if valve goes out of business steam goes down, the majority of the pc community will lose their connection to each other and pc gaming will be set back at least a decade

Furthermore

undeliable proof to defeat the TC that macs are infact pcs

[QUOTE="MPHhunter"]I believe the TC used the wrong term for what he's trying to get across. All computers are Personal Computers. It's the operating system that counts. And Microsoft makes Windows. It doesn't matter if they get paid for games made on it or not. It's still a Microsoft operating system that the games are made for.blizzvalve

But those PC games can be played on either Mac (but not many ) or Linux. PC gaming is not exclusive with Windows nor does Microsoft profit from PC gaming. The only way Microsoft profits from PC gaming is when they release their own games for the PC (Halo, Age of Empires, Microsoft Flight Simulator, etc.)

[QUOTE="mgs_freak91"][QUOTE="crusadernm"]

But when you say PC to the average person, they think of Microsoft. I'm sorry but its ingrained in all the world.

darthkirmy

Microsoft owns DIrectX.ronvalencia

I see this one is being fed well.

Espada12

for the PC if they didn't believe this. Discuss.

crusadernm

for the PC if they didn't believe this. Discuss.

crusadernm

Yeah, seriously the TC is right.

Microsoft made two games for the PC, so they own the whole thing.

How did no one notice that? :roll:

[QUOTE="crusadernm"] What's Microsoft? My PC is an HP. hurr hurr.KukicAdo

[QUOTE="crusadernm"]

for the PC if they didn't believe this. Discuss.

adamosmaki

A simple question. Is MS getting any money from games that are released on windows? Answer this and you will see that MS dont "own" Pc nobody can "own" an open platform

Most OEM/ODM PC vendors targets Windows.

A person can install homebrew software on Nintendo Wii or Xbox 360.

A Linux distro has follow Windows's ACPI tables or it gets broken ACPI tables.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]Microsoft owns DIrectX.AdrianWerner

Microsoft has control over the Window's API standard. Games release for Windows benefits Microsoft's Windows OS business unit i.e. reduce the desirability for alternative OS e.g. MacOS X, AmigaOS, Solaris, BeOSand 'etc'. This is the VHS vs Beta question.

PC is an open platform, Windows is a open platform (Open platform =/= Open system) everyone can make software what ever on Linux and even Windows for free and Microsoft wond not get penny from it... or else you decided as game developer to get "Games for Windows" certificet, but this is not even 5% of PC gameing industry.

MS only get money from PC from OS and there software and OEM sales.

Fun fact, Games for Windows Live use same server infrastructure as Xbox Live, yet muliplayer on those games are free, why? Because paid service for PC would not work fine with Steam as a platform companion

While it is indeed true that the PC is a free platform, with no single owners, it is however true that for SW use, the PC platform does equal Microsoft.

Most games will only run on a Windows OS (effectively meaning that they were made specificly to work on windows only). it is a complaint PC users have had for ages.

There is a few that develop for Mac, or Linux, but usually it counts around a handful of the ocean of games, the reason too is very simple, MS owns every right to Directx and its toolkit, which nearly all games these days are made of. And thus need to run at all.

As for SW standards it does requite a different view on the platform, since while you do not need a MS OS to use a computer, you almost certainly require a MS OS to play any games (making them MS exclusives indeed), unless the devs have a kind heart and makes the game from opensource things like openGL, and such.

Or if you use an emulater such as Wine, but even then it is a gamble if the game works or not.

That ironicly means that all games that were relaeased to work only for Windows, are still an exclusive, since it was made to only run on thier platform.

This has always made me wonder why it was never brought up, it is true that the limiting factor is software, and not hardware, but it effectively makes most games out there MS exclusives (also helps that MS are the OS on nearly all pcs around the world (what is it, 15% that runs on either Mac, or linux?)

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

you can't buy a pc from microsoft.

akbar13

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]Microsoft owns DIrectX.ronvalencia

Microsoft has control over the Window's API standard. Games release for Windows benefits Microsoft's Windows OS business unit i.e. reduce the desirability for alternative OS e.g. MacOS X, AmigaOS, Solaris, BeOSand 'etc'. This is the VHS vs Beta question.

Windows API it's only comunicating with KErnel and UI control, same as Linux got few APIs for that. Real block here is DirectX, not Windows API.

C/C++ on what ever plaform you code for still got the same standard functions (stdio for example) and this is what most coders use and in some situations you don't even need to port anything with simple software.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]Microsoft owns DIrectX.ronvalencia

Microsoft has control over the Window's API standard. Games release for Windows benefits Microsoft's Windows OS business unit i.e. reduce the desirability for alternative OS e.g. MacOS X, AmigaOS, Solaris, BeOSand 'etc'. This is the VHS vs Beta question.

heck...if MS could have it's way it would actually kill PCgaming altogether, as they see it as direct competition to their console. But they can't, they can't kill it, they also are incapable of enforcing any standards on it (Live and Dx10 are best examples of that)

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]They don't own games made for it though. To "own" something you need to have total control over it, MS has no real control over PCgaming

AdrianWerner

Microsoft has control over the Window's API standard. Games release for Windows benefits Microsoft's Windows OS business unit i.e. reduce the desirability for alternative OS e.g. MacOS X, AmigaOS, Solaris, BeOSand 'etc'. This is the VHS vs Beta question.

heck...if MS could have it's way it would actually kill PCgaming altogether, as they see it as direct competition to their console. But they can't, they can't kill it, they also are incapable of enforcing any standards on it (Live and Dx10 are best examples of that)

MS dont OWN the PC platform...Its the most open of all the platforms.Also the fact companies like Nvidia,Intel,AMD,Etc thrive off the PC marker an its a much more custom tailored thing.I mean i didnt know Windows was the only OS that can run games...

then games will come for for Mac. Windows is owned by MS (but it is open source)badtaker

And yes...Windows is owned by MS, but this doesn't mean the ownership extends to software that uses Windows

No single company owns the PC platform. This is an extremely simple concept, that nobody seems to understand.Skittles_McGee

Why this thread went past this post is any ones guess.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Microsoft has control over the Window's API standard. Games release for Windows benefits Microsoft's Windows OS business unit i.e. reduce the desirability for alternative OS e.g. MacOS X, AmigaOS, Solaris, BeOSand 'etc'. This is the VHS vs Beta question.

badtaker

heck...if MS could have it's way it would actually kill PCgaming altogether, as they see it as direct competition to their console. But they can't, they can't kill it, they also are incapable of enforcing any standards on it (Live and Dx10 are best examples of that)

No :lol: open platform =/= open source, do can you find windos kernel source? No, so it's not open source.

Windows it's open platform, everyone can make software for free theres ton of dev tool for free development, you can freely open source of your software and MS can only kiss your back part whatever software you makeing and what you plan to do with it

Consoles on other hand it's closed platform and you need to keep your software under rules of there maintainers.

Ewwww, this thread is bad and you should feel bad.

No, Windows does not own the PC platform, otherwise why would we see Sony release games onto the system?

MS earns no royalties from a company creating and releasing a game for PC.

The PC is nothing without Windows. PC gaming wouldn't even exist since it started with DOS which is a MS OS.

Poostation

Looks like somebody doesn't know about the Commodore 64, Apple II, Amiga, and the ZX Spectrum

The PC is nothing without Windows. PC gaming wouldn't even exist since it started with DOS which is a MS OS.

Poostation

Then other system would rule it, Unix for example. Also note maybe they rule PC Desktop, but in PC Server department they need to deal with Linux that have best server software support, why do you think even Valve makeing gameing server software for Linux, since it's most popular PC server OS and they need that do deliver

Microsoft has turn its back on pc. Not only halo but gears of war 2 and fable 2 or more importantly :WHY THE HELL DID YOU CANCEL THE PC VERSION OF ALAN WAKE?dakan45

It's nothing personal.

It's simple that Microsoft makes money off each and every software/hardware sale on 360; were as they don't with PC. Windows and Windows peripherals sell fine with or without PC gaming, they have little stake in PC gaming.

If everyone started mass transitioning to Mac and Linux, because they do essentially the same thing if you don't care much about PC gaming, then maybe Microsoft would care.

no one owns PC forget it

[QUOTE="dakan45"]Microsoft has turn its back on pc. Not only halo but gears of war 2 and fable 2 or more importantly :WHY THE HELL DID YOU CANCEL THE PC VERSION OF ALAN WAKE?AnnoyedDragon

It's nothing personal.

It's simple that Microsoft makes money off each and every software/hardware sale on 360; were as they don't with PC. Windows and Windows peripherals sell fine with or without PC gaming, they have little stake in PC gaming.

If everyone started mass transitioning to Mac and Linux, because they do essentially the same thing if you don't care much about PC gaming, then maybe Microsoft would care.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="dakan45"]Microsoft has turn its back on pc. Not only halo but gears of war 2 and fable 2 or more importantly :WHY THE HELL DID YOU CANCEL THE PC VERSION OF ALAN WAKE?dakan45

It's nothing personal.

It's simple that Microsoft makes money off each and every software/hardware sale on 360; were as they don't with PC. Windows and Windows peripherals sell fine with or without PC gaming, they have little stake in PC gaming.

If everyone started mass transitioning to Mac and Linux, because they do essentially the same thing if you don't care much about PC gaming, then maybe Microsoft would care.

Yeah but it sounds like they are not gonna make any money at all from alan wake on pc. I mean, they are still the publishers right?dakan45

Sometimes it is not about money, money is in 3rd party development; because you are basically being paid just to allow a developer to access your platform.

1st party titles like Alan Wake are platform adoption justifications, reasons to pick platform X over platform Y. If it gets people to buy 360s, people who may later go on to buy other games on 360, then making less money on Alan Wake by keeping it 360 exclusive is worth it.

Had Microsoft never been formed people would be using Linux for PC. See what I'm saying here?

[QUOTE="dakan45"]Microsoft has turn its back on pc. Not only halo but gears of war 2 and fable 2 or more importantly :WHY THE HELL DID YOU CANCEL THE PC VERSION OF ALAN WAKE?AnnoyedDragon

It's nothing personal.

It's simple that Microsoft makes money off each and every software/hardware sale on 360; were as they don't with PC. Windows and Windows peripherals sell fine with or without PC gaming, they have little stake in PC gaming.

If everyone started mass transitioning to Mac and Linux, because they do essentially the same thing if you don't care much about PC gaming, then maybe Microsoft would care.

Heck....I could live with it,...sure MS has completely moved out of pcgaming, to the point where in comparision it makes Sony look like a PCgaming stronghold, but one thing really annoys me...while business decisions are fine, treating PCgamers like complete morons and expecting them to swallow MS' lies isn't covered by any business decisions justifications in my book.

Yeah, seriously the TC is right.

Microsoft made two games for the PC, so they own the whole thing.

How did no one notice that? :roll:

awssk8er716

MS owns GFW; that's why Halo 1 and 2 are both exclusive to the Xbox and GFW.

[QUOTE="awssk8er716"]

Yeah, seriously the TC is right.

Microsoft made two games for the PC, so they own the whole thing.

How did no one notice that? :roll:

darthkirmy

Western Digital
Hewlett-Packard
Seagate
Hitachi
Lenovo
FUJITSU
IBM
Maxtor
SAMSUNG

All have indirect control of Microsoft, therefore own PC gaming. I could go even further and say you need the rest of the hardware for the harddrive to even run so any hardware manufacturer indirectly control Microsoft.

[QUOTE="darthkirmy"]

[QUOTE="awssk8er716"]

Yeah, seriously the TC is right.

Microsoft made two games for the PC, so they own the whole thing.

How did no one notice that? :roll:

Mystic-G

Western Digital
Hewlett-Packard
Seagate
Hitachi
Lenovo
FUJITSU
IBM
Maxtor
SAMSUNG

All have indirect control of Microsoft, therefore own PC gaming. I could go even further and say you need the rest of the hardware for the harddrive to even run so any hardware manufacturer indirectly control Microsoft.

One of those pics of Windows running on a Sony Vaio and some smack quote would seem appropriate for this nonsense.

Doesn't matter how hard you try to explain, aome people will keep saying Microsoft owns PC gaming. :roll:

Except if you dont have any one of those companies it can easily be replaced by another company. However, if you were to completely take Microsoft out of the industry and render all of their software useless you would easily lose 95% of the computer market. Hardware is much more easily replaceable than software.

darthkirmy

Without hardware you have no software... period. If Microsoft stopped all support for PC gaming, then PC gaming would become Linux oriented simple as that. If Microsoft stopped all gaming on 360 you're SOL unless you buy a PS3. MS indirectly controls PC gaming, just like all hardware manufacturers do... and by that it just further proves PCs are a open platform at heart.

If anything Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and ATI control gaming in general because their products are what make running these games possible and no they cannot be 'easily' replaced.

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]No single company owns the PC platform. This is an extremely simple concept, that nobody seems to understand.crusadernm

See those PC vs Mac commercials. Who do you think PC is refering to? Hint: It's Microsoft

Macs are PC's, so the commercials (as well as you) fail.

[QUOTE="crusadernm"]

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]No single company owns the PC platform. This is an extremely simple concept, that nobody seems to understand.Hanass

See those PC vs Mac commercials. Who do you think PC is refering to? Hint: It's Microsoft

Macs are PC's, so the commercials (as well as you) fail.

I have a Sony Vaio so that means that Sony owns the PC :PRedruM_I

[QUOTE="darthkirmy"] Except if you dont have any one of those companies it can easily be replaced by another company. However, if you were to completely take Microsoft out of the industry and render all of their software useless you would easily lose 95% of the computer market. Hardware is much more easily replaceable than software.

Without hardware you have no software... period. If Microsoft stopped all support for PC gaming, then PC gaming would become Linux oriented simple as that. If Microsoft stopped all gaming on 360 you're SOL unless you buy a PS3. MS indirectly controls PC gaming, just like all hardware manufacturers do... and by that it just further proves PCs are a open platform at heart.

If anything Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and ATI control gaming in general because their products are what make running these games possible and no they cannot be 'easily' replaced.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]They don't own games made for it though. To "own" something you need to have total control over it, MS has no real control over PCgaming

ShadowriverUB

Microsoft has control over the Window's API standard. Games release for Windows benefits Microsoft's Windows OS business unit i.e. reduce the desirability for alternative OS e.g. MacOS X, AmigaOS, Solaris, BeOSand 'etc'. This is the VHS vs Beta question.

Windows API it's only comunicating with KErnel and UI control, same as Linux got few APIs for that. Real block here is DirectX, not Windows API.

C/C++ on what ever plaform you code for still got the same standard functions (stdio for example) and this is what most coders use and in some situations you don't even need to port anything with simple software.

ReactOS > Linux/WINE.

DirectX is part of modern Windows. Refer to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa663364.aspx#introducingwpf_topic13

Direct3D, part of Microsoft's DirectX family of APIs, is a mainstay for Windows developers who create three-dimensional graphics. The advent of WPF in no way obsoletes Direct3D. In fact, as described earlier, WPF relies entirely on Direct3D for rendering

Both WPF and Direct3D have distinct roles, and both have a good future as part of the Windows platform.