yeah, one problem.....
The Dreamcast had built in online first.
cobrax25
Fixed it for ya.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="Painballz"][QUOTE="jimm895"]All M$ has done is follow someone else and they really haven't brought anything new to gaming. As much as I don't care for PC gaming I know they invented on-line gaming.dragonpuppy
PS3 is in last place because no one cares about it so yea
lawl
Way to be random. This topic had nothing to do with Sony yet Lemmings will always find a way to include it in somewhere...
:lol:@you calling Painballz a lemming. He makes a hermit thread once every hour he's on GS.
Lets begin by looking at gaming before the launch of the Original Xbox.
The PS2....a weak system with no On-line gaming.
The launch of the Xbox offered something never thought of before. PC gaming on your living room tv. The very idea seemed ridiculous, but Microsoft was confident and they had the craziest idea of On-line multiplayer on a console.
The Xbox started off slow, but grew huge interest with the launch of the new ip Halo - Combat Evolved which was a major success. At this time the Xbox's On-line was there but hardly used. Mostly for sports games and what not. Not a lot of people saw any interest in Xbox Live. Later with the launch of Halo 2 it became clear that Xbox Live was the platform for On-line gaming of the future. Halo 2's huge success brought forth new ideas for On-line gaming and established Xbox Live's name.
Sony of course launched their LAN add-on for the PS2. It's popular title Socom did okay, but the horrible On-line experience of the PS2 only helped Microsoft's Xbox LIVE sell more subscriptions as well as consoles.
If it was not for Microsoft's intervention I don't imagine Sony ever creating anything innovative or impressive. Today PSN is still a mess with less features and a lot less creativity.
Consumers made their choice and they choose Microsoft's Xbox 360.
I hope Microsoft will always remain a key role in the gaming industry. Their dedication to bringing entertainment to the living room with the Xbox is one of their greatest achievements.
ParadiseAwaits
No, they release a cookie cutter system with obvious improvements. Online is not revolutionary, as others have mentioned the dreamcast did it first.
You do realize that online gaming is just multiplayer gaming, right... RIGHT!? It's nothing spectacular, unless that type of solitude is your thing. I prefer real people to be in my company. oh, and the PS2 had online before the Xbox was released. You do also realize that just because Microsoft makes operating systems for PC, doesn't mean that their console was the "first" to bring PC gaming to a TV. Thats the (take this in deep, okay) DUMBEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD!
For online gaming on consoles it did, Xbox Live + Halo 2 = mainstream online gaming on consoles.
Nintendo still hasn't caught up to what was offered on the original Xbox.
the Dreamcast brought online gaming to the mainstream. SEGA freaking sacrificed everything for your precious "online gaming" and you pay no respect!Sushimaster
Um nope not really.
[QUOTE="Sushimaster"]the Dreamcast brought online gaming to the mainstream. SEGA freaking sacrificed everything for your precious "online gaming" and you pay no respect!demoralizer
Um nope not really.
Are you kidding? Is that all? "Nope, not really."? Gee, you must really know what you are talking about. I'm sorry I wasted your time.the Dreamcast brought online gaming to the mainstream. SEGA freaking sacrificed everything for your precious "online gaming" and you pay no respect!SushimasterNo one is debating that the Dreamcast had online gaming, but it didn't make it mainstream in the console world.
[QUOTE="demoralizer"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"]the Dreamcast brought online gaming to the mainstream. SEGA freaking sacrificed everything for your precious "online gaming" and you pay no respect!Sushimaster
Um nope not really.
Are you kidding? Is that all? "Nope, not really."? Gee, you must really know what you are talking about. I'm sorry I wasted your time.Dont waste my time again!
[QUOTE="Sushimaster"]the Dreamcast brought online gaming to the mainstream. SEGA freaking sacrificed everything for your precious "online gaming" and you pay no respect!BreakingPoint8No one is debating that the Dreamcast had online gaming, but it didn't make it mainstream in the console world.
Thank you for backing up my posts, even if you didnt mean to.
[QUOTE="demoralizer"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"]the Dreamcast brought online gaming to the mainstream. SEGA freaking sacrificed everything for your precious "online gaming" and you pay no respect!Sushimaster
Um nope not really.
Are you kidding? Is that all? "Nope, not really."? Gee, you must really know what you are talking about. I'm sorry I wasted your time.I'm a huge Sega fan, and Sega genesis had online gaming too but it didn't bring online to the mainstream either, Nor did it bring Sega's demise to the failure of the Dreamcast (referring to your sacrificed remark).
SEGAs failure was a lesson! It was a leap of faith into unknown waters. If SEGA hadn't got the ball rolling, who can say Microsoft would have been so sucessfull? You can't assume that just because SEGA failed as a whole, that it didn't bring Online to the mainstream. It is a logical conclusion that SEGA brought it. They may have died of a heart attack a few feet from the destination, but they freaking brought it!
I am the mainstream, and SEGA brought me online gaming on a console.
Nor did it bring Sega's demise to the failure of the Dreamcast (referring to your sacrificed remark).demoralizerThat isn't what I meant. The sacrifice came when they brought online console gaming to the mainstream. Just the very act of doing so, meant sacrifices. Decisions are made when you choose one over the other, "the other" is known as a sacrificial offering. In optimal circumstances, you would cut it's heart out. Consoles don't have hearts though, bother.
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Microsoft just copied PC gaming. And, in doing so, helped to sink gaming standards across the board by encouraging the dilution of separate game design philosophies.xsubtownerx
Oh give me a break.. :lol:
Consoles were originally designed to replace arcade machines, which delivered short, shallow bursts of entertainment. As a result, modern console games still follow that exact same ideal. Stories may have advanced, but gameplay mechanics have grown no more complex. If anything, over the last five to ten years they've become even simpler. There's really nothing wrong with this, and some of the best games in the world were designed precisely with this in mind: Ninja Gaiden (not simple, but it is very straightforward), Mario 64 and SMG, Grand Theft Auto, etc.
PC games, however, were designed to captivate and hold onto players' attentions. Hence why, even among the earliest PC games, you'll find games intended to provoke complex problem solving (e.g. graphical adventure games, puzzle-adventures, text-based adventures, etc.), and why, as graphics became more advanced, games that promoted independent thought dominated PC gaming (e.g. open-ended RPGs like Fallout, strategy games, RPG-shooter hybrids like System Shock and Deus Ex, etc.).
Since the Xbox came around, however, Microsoft has actively tried to MERGE the two different philosophies in Xbox-based games. The result: half-breed games like Mass Effect, which console fans praise to heaven and back as a new pinnacle of RPG design, but which PC gamers recognize as a horridly shallow and disjointed mess. Or truncated afternoon shooters like COD4 and Halo 3 which have no ambition beyond throwing enemy after enemy into the player's targeting reticle instead of letting the player decide how to aim his reticle like in countless PC FPSes. Or RTSes like C&C3, or the upcoming EndWar and Halo Wars, which compromise speed (in the case of C&C3) or complexity (in the case of EndWar) or both (in the case of Halo Wars) for the sake of minimal playability.
Both long-term depth and short-term enjoyability are sacrificed for the sake of pleasing an extremely small but extremely vocal minority (i.e. self-proclaimed "hardcore console gamers"). Either way, there is no evolution in Microsoft's console. The 360 and the Xbox brandname in general is like a mule: a sterile mating of two parents that at first appear to be similar and compatible, but which in the long run will lack sustainable progress and will result in eventual stagnation. It's rather sad that the PlayStation brandname, with the PS3, is actively following down that same route.
I hate to say it but the Wii started a much greater revolution, MS wasnt the first to do online, they just did it well. The Wii wasn't the first to do motion sensing
I used to see those gimmicky motion sensing games at stands ALL the time in the middle of the mall, the wii did it right, and look at the reception :o :? :cry:
If PC games are so much more complex than console games. Then, how come console games have always been graphicaly inferior parallels to PC games? It makes no sense that Microsoft brought "PC" gaming to the living room. It doesn't make any sense. I played Star Craft on the N-sixty-freaking-four! I played MIST on the P-S-fudging-one! I played METAL GEAR on the Nintendo bleeping entertainment system! The only difference is buttons! PCs have more buttons! WOO I'm a monkey, and I press buttons! ohh ohh ee ee ahha
I've been a gamer for a long time. All the XBOX did was take giant steaming turds all over what I knew as "depth". They made games SHORTER! They over-hyped lackluster titles. They released a bunch of roid rage filth! Gears of war freaking makes me want to beat up old ladies! this is most defiantly "smarter" gaming...
If PC games are so much more complex than console games. Then, how come console games have always been graphicaly inferior parallels to PC games? It makes no sense that Microsoft brought "PC" gaming to the living room. It doesn't make any sense. I played Star Craft on the N-sixty-freaking-four! I played MIST on the P-S-fudging-one! I played METAL GEAR on the Nintendo bleeping entertainment system! The only difference is buttons! PCs have more buttons! WOO I'm a monkey, and I press buttons! ohh ohh ee ee ahha Sushimaster
Was StarCraft any good on the N64? Thought not.
Myst was simple enough to port without losing much in translation; it just didn't have the audience on the PS1 as it did on the PC. Myst was the most popular PC game franchise of all time until the Sims. Can the PS1 version claim the same?
And PCs are more than capable of playing console games. That's why Metal Gear was playable (and enjoyable) on the PC first, and why it made the transition to consoles very well. It was, in essence, a game unintentionally designed for a console audience, but released on the PC.
[QUOTE="demoralizer"]Nor did it bring Sega's demise to the failure of the Dreamcast (referring to your sacrificed remark).SushimasterThat isn't what I meant. The sacrifice came when they brought online console gaming to the mainstream. Just the very act of doing so, meant sacrifices. Decisions are made when you choose one over the other, "the other" is known as a sacrificial offering. In optimal circumstances, you would cut it's heart out. Consoles don't have hearts though, bother.
Most Sega fans Love 360 and Xbox respect Sega. You can't even give props to success that Live is.
I'm sure Sega didn't have Sacrifice in mind when they tried to bring online console gaming to the mainstream, but profits. Just because you fail at something doesn't make it a sacrifice. A sacrifice would be for Sega to not discontinue the Dreamcast so early.
Sega might of got the ball rolling then sony tried to pick up and failed, but then came MS they picked up the ball and ran succsesfully with. I still don't see how Sega brought online console gaming to the mainstream? If anything who should all pay mad props to the PC for online gaming.
[QUOTE="Sushimaster"]If PC games are so much more complex than console games. Then, how come console games have always been graphicaly inferior parallels to PC games? It makes no sense that Microsoft brought "PC" gaming to the living room. It doesn't make any sense. I played Star Craft on the N-sixty-freaking-four! I played MIST on the P-S-fudging-one! I played METAL GEAR on the Nintendo bleeping entertainment system! The only difference is buttons! PCs have more buttons! WOO I'm a monkey, and I press buttons! ohh ohh ee ee ahha mjarantilla
Was StarCraft any good on the N64? Thought not.
Myst was simple enough to port without losing much in translation; it just didn't have the audience on the PS1 as it did on the PC. Myst was the most popular PC game franchise of all time until the Sims. Can the PS1 version claim the same?
And PCs are more than capable of playing console games. That's why Metal Gear was playable (and enjoyable) on the PC first, and why it made the transition to consoles very well. It was, in essence, a game unintentionally designed for a console audience, but released on the PC.
Yeah, cool, I agree with you. But, what did the Xbox do to make it a PC? Nothing, it's still just another console. The games were nothing special. Halo was just Golden Eye.That isn't what I meant. The sacrifice came when they brought online console gaming to the mainstream. Just the very act of doing so, meant sacrifices. Decisions are made when you choose one over the other, "the other" is known as a sacrificial offering. In optimal circumstances, you would cut it's heart out. Consoles don't have hearts though, bother.[QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]Nor did it bring Sega's demise to the failure of the Dreamcast (referring to your sacrificed remark).demoralizer
Most Sega fans Love 360 and Xbox respect Sega. You can't even give props to success that Live is.
I'm sure Sega didn't have Sacrifice in mind when they tried to bring online console gaming to the mainstream, but profits. Just because you fail at something doesn't make it a sacrifice. A sacrifice would be for Sega to not discontinue the Dreamcast so early.
Sega might of got the ball rolling then sony tried to pick up and failed, but then came MS they picked up the ball and ran succsesfully with. I still don't see how Sega brought online console gaming to the mainstream? If anything who should all pay mad props to the PC for online gaming.
Cool, agreed. The XBOX had a small user base of PC nuts. PC nuts crave online. Microsoft and online were like peas and carrots! It was a success because the user base was so selective, not because Microsoft is the leetpwn.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
*sigh*
main·stream
noun Definition: main current of thought or behavior: actions, and values that are most widely accepted by a group or society, e.g. in politics, fashion, or musicviews well outside those of the mainstream
adjective Definition: reflecting norm: reflecting the most widely accepted views or tastes of a nation or culture and therefore not exceptional, extreme, or avant-garde
Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games?PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
demoralizer
[QUOTE="demoralizer"]Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games? Because the Xbox uses the PC-centric Direct X API. That's where the name X-Box came from.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
Sushimaster
[QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games? Because the Xbox uses the PC-centric Direct X API. That's where the name X-Box came from. Yeah, the Xbox uses an application programming interface... Yes it does... And so does the Atari 2600.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
br0kenrabbit
What did it amount to, game wise, besides teh pretty?
[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games? Because the Xbox uses the PC-centric Direct X API. That's where the name X-Box came from. Yeah, the Xbox uses an application programming interface... Yes it does... And so does the Atari 2600.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
Sushimaster
The Atari doesn't use DirectX. The PC and Xbox do.
[QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games? Because the Xbox uses the PC-centric Direct X API. That's where the name X-Box came from. Yeah, the Xbox uses an application programming interface... Yes it does... And so does the Atari 2600.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
mjarantilla
The Atari doesn't use DirectX. The PC and Xbox do.
yes, you are correct. but that's not what I said. DirectX is an API, which is a development tool. You cant say the XBOX was better because you could program games for it. That's just silly. I know I played a PS2 game, and that must mean someone programmed it.Lets begin by looking at gaming before the launch of the Original Xbox.
The PS2....a weak system with no On-line gaming.
The launch of the Xbox offered something never thought of before. PC gaming on your living room tv. The very idea seemed ridiculous, but Microsoft was confident and they had the craziest idea of On-line multiplayer on a console.
The Xbox started off slow, but grew huge interest with the launch of the new ip Halo - Combat Evolved which was a major success. At this time the Xbox's On-line was there but hardly used. Mostly for sports games and what not. Not a lot of people saw any interest in Xbox Live. Later with the launch of Halo 2 it became clear that Xbox Live was the platform for On-line gaming of the future. Halo 2's huge success brought forth new ideas for On-line gaming and established Xbox Live's name.
Sony of course launched their LAN add-on for the PS2. It's popular title Socom did okay, but the horrible On-line experience of the PS2 only helped Microsoft's Xbox LIVE sell more subscriptions as well as consoles.
If it was not for Microsoft's intervention I don't imagine Sony ever creating anything innovative or impressive. Today PSN is still a mess with less features and a lot less creativity.
Consumers made their choice and they choose Microsoft's Xbox 360.
I hope Microsoft will always remain a key role in the gaming industry. Their dedication to bringing entertainment to the living room with the Xbox is one of their greatest achievements.
ParadiseAwaits
That is why the PS3 has now sold more than the 360 in every region besides America in more than a year less time? Live is fantastic and was a great improvement and could be seen as an EVOLUTION for console gaming however it was no REVOLUTION.
AR
yeah, one problem.....
The Dreamcast had multiplayer first.
cobrax25
The Saturn had online gaming before Dreamcast.
[QUOTE="cobrax25"]yeah, one problem.....
The Dreamcast had multiplayer first.
MortalDecay
If you want to get technical, the SNES and Genesis had multiplayer first.
Yeah, They did actually.
[QUOTE="MortalDecay"][QUOTE="cobrax25"]yeah, one problem.....
The Dreamcast had multiplayer first.
Hellsing2o2
If you want to get technical, the SNES and Genesis had multiplayer first.
Yeah, They did actually.
& the Famicom had online first.[QUOTE="Hellsing2o2"][QUOTE="MortalDecay"][QUOTE="cobrax25"]yeah, one problem.....
The Dreamcast had multiplayer first.
Sushimaster
If you want to get technical, the SNES and Genesis had multiplayer first.
Yeah, They did actually.
& the Famicom had online first.Online multiplayer?
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games? Because the Xbox uses the PC-centric Direct X API. That's where the name X-Box came from. Yeah, the Xbox uses an application programming interface... Yes it does... And so does the Atari 2600.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
Sushimaster
The Atari doesn't use DirectX. The PC and Xbox do.
yes, you are correct. but that's not what I said. DirectX is an API, which is a development tool. You cant say the XBOX was better because you could program games for it. That's just silly. I know I played a PS2 game, and that must mean someone programmed it.What? He was answering your question: "How come the XBOX was more like a PC than a PS1?" Answer: It used DirectX, which made porting between the consoles and PCs much easier than it used to be (or, IMO, should be).
no, just online, only in Japan.Sushimaster
Oh. And yeah I knew the famicom had online, just not online gaming. And it was only in japan.
[QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="Sushimaster"][QUOTE="demoralizer"]Yes, this is true... So, whats your point? How come the XBOX was more like a PC than the PS1? They have the same ammount of buttons. So, what is the difference? What makes it so much more substantial? How are Xbox games similar to PC games, in a way that PS1 games are NOT similar to PC games? Because the Xbox uses the PC-centric Direct X API. That's where the name X-Box came from. Yeah, the Xbox uses an application programming interface... Yes it does... And so does the Atari 2600.PC nuts? Most Xbox games were also on PC.
mjarantilla
The Atari doesn't use DirectX. The PC and Xbox do.
yes, you are correct. but that's not what I said. DirectX is an API, which is a development tool. You cant say the XBOX was better because you could program games for it. That's just silly. I know I played a PS2 game, and that must mean someone programmed it.What? He was answering your question: "How come the XBOX was more like a PC than a PS1?" Answer: It used DirectX, which made porting between the consoles and PCs much easier than it used to be (or, IMO, should be).
The fact that the Xbox uses DirectX, rather than a different API, does not make it more like a PC than the PS1. It merely means that the Xbox uses the API that Microsoft created. Well, the PS1 also uses an API that Sony created. So, the manufacture of both consoles use their own API. So, they are both equally similar in this sense. Whatever it is that makes PC games "revolutionary" isn't the API. If anything, it would be development. In this case, the only thing that makes PCs "revolutionary" is the fact that just about anyone can program, play and distribute games on a PC. This isn't true for the XBOX.Please Log In to post.
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