Miyamoto: Games should feel like games.

[QUOTE="wemhim"]Exactly, I know what you mean. And it's getting annoying. I like games, but it's just like, "You don't have the reflexes of a superhuman, you fail", kind of like in Snatcher the first playthrough, I hated the final shooting scenes. However, requiring the player to plan an attack, by making a distraction, quickly running through the room, take cover, wait until they run by, jump up here, watch out for this guy, two guys, make them seperate, get one, then the other, then go to the objective. While making it difficult via strategy, as in, you have to be smart. But too many games are just reflex challengers, the hardest part about MGS2 on Extreme was the button mashing part at the end.
Panzer_Zwei

There's only one shooting scene in the whole game that's remotely challenging, and come on, it's not hard to beat.

You must've played the game via emulation or something for you to have had any sort of difficulties.

Doing the last scene emulated was almost impossible with the keyboard.

[QUOTE="CJL13"][QUOTE="goblaa"]

All games, be it video games, board games or whatever should ALL strive to be simple to learn. Not easy to beat. I think that's what shiggy was trying to say.

DaAznSaN

Pick up and play games? I don't really agree with him. Learning how to play a hard game makes it so much fun. Beating Ninja Gaiden is much more satisifying than Starfox 64.

The challenge of a game shouldn't be trying to memorize the game controls or attack combos or whatever; it should be in the content of the game. You shouldn't have to think about controls; you are one with the game and you just worry about what's happening on screen, not what's happening with your fingers. If StarFox 64 was harder in content, yet still simple in controls, wouldn't that be more satisfying to beat?

Doing the last scene emulated was almost impossible with the keyboard.

Gunraidan

Sega should listen to him, numerous of their games on both the GC and Wii are far too hard (F-Zero, Super Monkey Ball and so on).Nintendo_Man

But seriously, that's what makes them great.

It should be challenging, but not frustrating. You should think "I should have moved faster" not "GOD DAMNIT THIS STUPID CHEAP SHOT!"kittykatz5k

Exactly. And that's a very tough balance to achieve. I definately appreciate games that are difficult enough that require you to use all the tools at your disposal and think carefully. Though I usually play the tougher versions after romping through on "normal" :)

this is the main disagreement i have with miyamoto... games should be challenging.

he made zelda tp too easy... casuals wont play zelda, nongamers wont play zelda, etc. even if they do/.. by the time they reach the 2nd dungeon they know what they are doing.

give us a freaking challenge!!!

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Man"]Sega should listen to him, numerous of their games on both the GC and Wii are far too hard (F-Zero, Super Monkey Ball and so on).Panzer_Zwei

But seriously, that's what makes them great.

Yeah when I beat those games I felt so happy.

well...

i love king of fighter games, tekken, street fighter, r-type, ghouls & goblins (ghosts), and every game i play i already start on the hardest difficulty... so yes, i prefer games that takes skill. it always feels better when you're doing good something that is hard.

Personally, I think games should have a scalable learning curve depending on how much you want to get into the game.

Take Super Smash Bros. Melee for an example. The game is very easy to pick up and play for those that just started playing because the learning curve is small and the controls are simple. However, for veterans, hardcores, newbies that aren't much of a newbie anymore, etc., there's a lot of things to learn, study, and master. If there weren't, I'd be a bit worried about all of those tournaments.

this is the main disagreement i have with miyamoto... games should be challenging.

he made zelda tp too easy... casuals wont play zelda, nongamers wont play zelda, etc. even if they do/.. by the time they reach the 2nd dungeon they know what they are doing.

give us a freaking challenge!!!

amtentori

Not true at all.

[QUOTE="Gunraidan"]

Doing the last scene emulated was almost impossible with the keyboard.

Panzer_Zwei

Who said that I was refering that it was?

**** Miyamoto.

Seriously. He's wrong.

I'm going to come out and say it: I have a very short attention span when it comes to single player games nowadays. In order to keep me interested, you'll need to hook me at level one, minute one, whatever and never let go. If the game takes too long to build up or is frustrating to the point where it feels restrictive, I move along to the next game. The days where I pride myself in beating difficult games are over since:

1) Truly difficult games (Excluding games with stupidly small room for error like SHMUPs or games with cluttered and difficult controllers) barely exist anymore.

2) It's hard to feel pride in beating something difficult alone nowadays.

When it comes down to it, most of the pride I feel in gaming comes from multiplayer. Single player games are just something where I go into it to experience an immersive and entertaining universe, not so much expecting any "real challenges."

I'm not saying that games shouldn't be difficult but I am saying that you can't expect every game to be presenting brick walls every minute of your progress. Making a game enjoyable is more important than making a game hard.

[QUOTE="amtentori"]

this is the main disagreement i have with miyamoto... games should be challenging.

he made zelda tp too easy... casuals wont play zelda, nongamers wont play zelda, etc. even if they do/.. by the time they reach the 2nd dungeon they know what they are doing.

give us a freaking challenge!!!

GamerForca

Not true at all.

Yeah, I have a friend who buys every Nintendo console (no others) and plays only the Zelda games that are released on it. If it weren't for Zelda, he wouldn't game at all.

I want more games to be difficult like Prime 2. TP only disappointed me because it was so freaking easy.

dieworm

TP was easy?O_o God I suck at Zelda.:(

[QUOTE="Nintendo_Man"]Sega should listen to him, numerous of their games on both the GC and Wii are far too hard (F-Zero, Super Monkey Ball and so on).Panzer_Zwei

But seriously, that's what makes them great.

Sega, as far as I know, makes fast-paced arcade-sty-le games while Nintendo is focused on creating more, for a lack of better words,recreational games that more people can pick up and play, though I should add that they can still be quite difficult.

I like challenges and everything as well, but sometimes a light easy game is needed, earlier this morning I was looking through my PS2 collection and they were all RPG's or just some sort of game that would take a while to get into again. That was something I didn't want, all the game I had were intended for long puzzling stuff so I decided to pull out my PS1 and I pooped in Frogger 2 and after that, Rayman 2. The games were nothing special, but the fact that they were so easy to pick up and play made them fun.

Sometimes you do want a full length epic adventure but there are those times when I just want to play games not because I want to be sucked into a magical world where everything depends on me gunning down/slashing away at tough enemies, but instead, I want to play a game that's just fun and nothing else.

After playing Bioshock, I'mconvinced that Nintendo is wrong about everything.SuperVegeta518

:lol: I feel the same way.

i like a game thats so hard it makes me bash my head on the desk repeatedly, but then, im persistant enough to eventually make it through.

then again, there are many many more games ive played that arent particularly hard at all, but i have thouroughly enjoyed from start to finish.

When I play a game, I wanna feel like I just got kicked in the face, my family just got murdered, and my village just got burned down, know what I mean? It just gives a better sense of satisfaction in the end, or maybe that's just me. Of course, this is assuming it has all that other good stuff; story, graphics, gameplay, sound etc. What's the fun in blazing through a game because it's so easy?Slashkice

That's called story line... it's a comepltely different thing than what they're talking about.

Has siggy gone soft in the head I loved his old games not this new easy crapware he's talking about. It's over I am glad I sold my wii my gut was right the nintendoI loved is dead. Thank god for games like ngs and dmc3,G&G pspwhereI can relive the feeling of the great 16bit classics.ChiChiMonKilla

The last game he produced/directed/designed was......ocarina of time. SO you think that game was crapware?

The next game he is creating fully from scratch (producing, directing, designing is....mario galaxy.

What is the difference between "hard" and "challenging" anyways? Sounds like people are splitting hairs.

If people really want to suffer, play something like Punch Out, Double Dragon 3, or Blaster Master. Although these games are easy to learn and play, and are fun, they are stupidly hard in the later stages. They are hard in a way that you have to be a maschoist to play them over and over again to the point of near perfection to complete these games.

Saying something is "challenging" by saying "Well you need to use this stratagy to beat this boss" isn't really a challenge. It's trial and error. It's trial and error because you will die or lose over and over and over again untill you win. It's like taking a multiple choice test with 4 multiple choices but you have *infinite* tries to get the question right. Just because one multiple choice question has 100 choices, while the other one has only 4 doesn't make the one with 100 choices more challenging. What it makes you do is buy a freaking stratagy guide or look it up on the internet to get past the boss easily. So much for the challenge then!

I want to bring back the choice:

EASY

-->MEDIUM

HARD

INSANE

What Miyamoto basically saying: "What cores gamers want are more Nintendogs sequals and games with little to no challenge".

Dear god Nintendo..what have you done? :cry: *shakes fist at the heavens*

I don't think I'm jumping the gun when I say that Nintendo is ruining gaming.

This isn't nearly as contraversial as his statmetn saying gamers don't know what they want... and that turned out to be comeplteyl true :P

[QUOTE="ChiChiMonKilla"]Has siggy gone soft in the head I loved his old games not this new easy crapware he's talking about. It's over I am glad I sold my wii my gut was right the nintendoI loved is dead. Thank god for games like ngs and dmc3,G&G pspwhereI can relive the feeling of the great 16bit classics.Gangans

The last game he produced/directed/designed was......ocarina of time. SO you think that game was crapware?

The next game he is creating fully from scratch (producing, directing, designing is....mario galaxy.

the best part of this whole point is that ocarina of time wasnt hard at all, either, and its a timeless classic that is arguably one of the greatest of all time. many many nintendo classics, even in the 8 and 16 bit era, are not particularly hard, but they are still some of the greatest games ever made.