Modern Wafare 3 devs will LISTEN to their fans, unlike Battfield devs

[QUOTE="viper-kid"]Hardcore or Casual gamers who really cares? at the end of the day they pay the same amount as the 'hardcore' gamers. Their opinions are just as valid as 'hardcore' gamers. What makes 'hardcore' gamers think they can dictate gamers? ChubbyGuy40

So much wrong with your post I'm starting to wonder why you even tried to respond. Actually read the freakin' posts before responding.

Hardcore is a playstyle as well, someone who is good at CoD is hardcore just as much as a Quake or CS player.

Hardcore is a playstyle as well, someone who is good at CoD is hardcore just as much as a Quake or CS player.

StealthMonkey4

Hardcore in a casual game is 100% different than hardcore in a hardcore game. If you don't understand the differences, then you obviously don't play these games and don't know the difference.

Not that difficult when that entails re-releasing COD4 AGAIN.

good they seem to be learning from treyarch

GTSaiyanjin2

[QUOTE="GTSaiyanjin2"]

good they seem to be learning from treyarch

ModernSnivy

I'll take performance problems (depending on how severe and by the Black Ops on Steam weekend, never had a problem) over not listening to your fans and abandoning your game not even a year after launch any day.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="viper-kid"] Hardcore or Casual gamers who really cares? at the end of the day they pay the same amount as the 'hardcore' gamers. Their opinions are just as valid as 'hardcore' gamers. What makes 'hardcore' gamers think they can dictate gamers? StealthMonkey4

He wasnt talking about gamers, he was talking how call of duty is a noob tubing, smg sniping, grenade spamming, camp fest. Call of duty is made so anyone can beat someone at least once, whether its due to the horrible lag, or dumb map design with no skill involved. In call of duty, if you both see eachother at the same time, its dependent on who has the better ping. In quake, its who can dodge, manuever, and use their weapons better, it takes alot more skill, and by alot i mean at least 10x more skill.

Not true, the overall kill to death ratio overall is 1.00 (excluding suicides, team kills, etc. of course), the same as Quake, CS, CSS, RS3, etc. If this was true it would allow a low skill level player to just do these things and win. I've played against many people who attempt to noob-tube, camp, etc. and I've even tried it myself and it's not a free pass to being good at the game. I've seen videos of my friends and other gamers who are extremely skilled at CoD, they don't camp, noobtube, or do anything that is frequently called cheap (for the most part they don't, I'm sure some do though, same as with every game).

[QUOTE="ModernSnivy"][QUOTE="GTSaiyanjin2"]

good they seem to be learning from treyarch

ChubbyGuy40

I'll take performance problems (depending on how severe and by the Black Ops on Steam weekend, never had a problem) over not listening to your fans and abandoning your game not even a year after launch any day.

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

He wasnt talking about gamers, he was talking how call of duty is a noob tubing, smg sniping, grenade spamming, camp fest. Call of duty is made so anyone can beat someone at least once, whether its due to the horrible lag, or dumb map design with no skill involved. In call of duty, if you both see eachother at the same time, its dependent on who has the better ping. In quake, its who can dodge, manuever, and use their weapons better, it takes alot more skill, and by alot i mean at least 10x more skill.

edinsftw

Not true, the overall kill to death ratio overall is 1.00 (excluding suicides, team kills, etc. of course), the same as Quake, CS, CSS, RS3, etc. If this was true it would allow a low skill level player to just do these things and win. I've played against many people who attempt to noob-tube, camp, etc. and I've even tried it myself and it's not a free pass to being good at the game. I've seen videos of my friends and other gamers who are extremely skilled at CoD, they don't camp, noobtube, or do anything that is frequently called cheap (for the most part they don't, I'm sure some do though, same as with every game).

That was my point exactly, so every game is equally difficult. Just because Quake isn't your playstyle doesn't make the game itself harder. It may appear harder because the learning curve is high and many people have been playing it a while.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Yes, because Infinity Ward has such a good track record of "listening to the fans." :roll:

slarkyslark

IW hasnt listened to the fans once. There is a reason why COD4 and MW3 are the exact same games.

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

Hardcore is a playstyle as well, someone who is good at CoD is hardcore just as much as a Quake or CS player.

ChubbyGuy40

Hardcore in a casual game is 100% different than hardcore in a hardcore game. If you don't understand the differences, then you obviously don't play these games and don't know the difference.

There's no casual and hardcore on MP as all are equally difficult....

There's no casual and hardcore on MP as all are equally difficult....

StealthMonkey4

I'm done with you because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Go and play the games before making absurd assumptions and tossing around false info.

I doubt it.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

How do you come to that conclusion?

viper-kid

One cannot go in and have a decent score at those games. They takes months of practice. Quake 3/Quake Live you WILL NOT survive at all.

CoD you can learn everything about the game within 2 days, and you'll still be killed by some little **** with an RPG or n00b-tube.

If you really needed to ask that question, you obviously don't play more "hardcore" games.

Casual games are boring.. If its balanced, requires teamwork, and skill then its fun and CoD is not fun. Without a challenge I get really bored.

You've given no reason whatsoever as to why the MP portions of the games you've listed are harder than CoD's MP besides basically "well, I find them harder."

StealthMonkey4

Now you're putting words in my mouth? You can stop making yourself look like a fool now. I never said anything of the sort, but YOU did. You're the one who stated difficulties based on your experience, or rather the lack of.

I already gave my reasons. Quake actually requires skill where CoD requires none. Quake is a arena twitch shooter that was made to be hard. CoD and it's gameplay was made to be easy enough for a 7 year old to play. Different style gameplay negates difficulty now? Sorry, but that is one lame excuse, especially when these two games are built on the same engine and IW never botheres to remove the movement style. It doesn't matter if they're my style or not, because neither of them are. Watch a hardcore Quake fan and his actions and awareness are extremely fast and high, and he won't even be among the best. Not to mention you have to actually aim. This is a true twitch shooter, not something that aims for you, gives you extremely large hitboxes, laser bullets, and quick scopes. I'd go more in depth, but you wouldn't understand any of it.

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

The chart posted PROVES IW2 does not listen to it's fans, especially the ones that were with them from the beginning. You do know it was proven Activision bought off their reviewers right?

BF3? Mediocre? Why because they actually change and improved the gameplay, engine, and more?

Easy how to see people don't like CoD. It's a terrible SP and really imbalanced MP that caters to casuals with very bad gunplay.

Zero_epyon

That chart proves nothing, it's all nitpicking over things that 95% of players don't care and probably don't even know what it is. MW2 featured a much more fleshed out online MP and an amazing Spec Ops, and it shows by popularity daily, sales, and reviews.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="viper-kid"]Hardcore or Casual gamers who really cares? at the end of the day they pay the same amount as the 'hardcore' gamers. Their opinions are just as valid as 'hardcore' gamers. What makes 'hardcore' gamers think they can dictate gamers? StealthMonkey4

So much wrong with your post I'm starting to wonder why you even tried to respond. Actually read the freakin' posts before responding.

Hardcore is a playstyle as well, someone who is good at CoD is hardcore just as much as a Quake or CS player.

Hardcore mode in CoD is very easy because you need less bullets to kill somebody and all you need to do is to react faster.

Yet its one of the top played games on steam and has been since release....please please explain this to me? It ticks all the boxs that should make it NOT be popular on pc yet its played more than the vast majority of online pc games?dom2000

You're assuming it tracks every popular PC game. May come as a shock to you but not all games are on steam, or require steam. Also you can fix MW2 and still play on Steam. By fix I mean using a custom server that allows dedicated servers and balanced servers, and custom rules. It's not all bad when that stuff is used.

[QUOTE="Zero_epyon"][QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

That chart proves nothing, it's all nitpicking over things that 95% of players don't care and probably don't even know what it is. MW2 featured a much more fleshed out online MP and an amazing Spec Ops, and it shows by popularity daily, sales, and reviews.

dom2000

and yet more people play Cod4 then Mw2 and blops combined on a daily bases. Also not everybody and every game uses/or is restricted to Steam. Mw2 and Blops are ghost towns..

[QUOTE="viper-kid"][QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

One cannot go in and have a decent score at those games. They takes months of practice. Quake 3/Quake Live you WILL NOT survive at all.

CoD you can learn everything about the game within 2 days, and you'll still be killed by some little **** with an RPG or n00b-tube.

If you really needed to ask that question, you obviously don't play more "hardcore" games.

Jebus213

Casual games are boring.. If its balanced, requires teamwork, and skill then its fun and CoD is not fun. Without a challenge I get really bored.

i had to lol at this...i was really expecting a much higher score for you to be showing off....and yes cod requires little skill that much is obvious to anyone who plays CS or quake

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

[QUOTE="viper-kid"] Hardcore or Casual gamers who really cares? at the end of the day they pay the same amount as the 'hardcore' gamers. Their opinions are just as valid as 'hardcore' gamers. What makes 'hardcore' gamers think they can dictate gamers? dom2000

Casual games are boring.. If its balanced, requires teamwork, and skill then its fun and CoD is not fun. Without a challenge I get really bored.

i was really expecting a much higher score for you to be showing off.

Ok

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]

You've given no reason whatsoever as to why the MP portions of the games you've listed are harder than CoD's MP besides basically "well, I find them harder."

ChubbyGuy40

Now you're putting words in my mouth? You can stop making yourself look like a fool now. I never said anything of the sort, but YOU did. You're the one who stated difficulties based on your experience, or rather the lack of.

I already gave my reasons. Quake actually requires skill where CoD requires none. Quake is a arena twitch shooter that was made to be hard. CoD and it's gameplay was made to be easy enough for a 7 year old to play. Different style gameplay negates difficulty now? Sorry, but that is one lame excuse, especially when these two games are built on the same engine and IW never botheres to remove the movement style. It doesn't matter if they're my style or not, because neither of them are. Watch a hardcore Quake fan and his actions and awareness are extremely fast and high, and he won't even be among the best. Not to mention you have to actually aim. This is a true twitch shooter, not something that aims for you, gives you extremely large hitboxes, laser bullets, and quick scopes. I'd go more in depth, but you wouldn't understand any of it.

[QUOTE="dom2000"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

Casual games are boring.. If its balanced, requires teamwork, and skill then its fun and CoD is not fun. Without a challenge I get really bored.

Jebus213

i was really expecting a much higher score for you to be showing off.

Ok

Those are decent scores, but how competitive the game is really depends on the players. I think we can all agree the games are more fun when you actually play good players, and the games are competitive instead of winning by a landslide. Good decent players are hard to find though sadly.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was summing up all that you have said.StealthMonkey4

Which I never once said. I never said anything like that. You put words in my mouth.

I've seen pro people play both and they are both equally impressive. One may require more skill to aim, kill, move, etc., however that does not make it any more difficult, because all players experience these same higher skill requirements.StealthMonkey4

So taking more skill does not make it harder? I'm sorry but that's insanely illogical. And no, even at the beginner levels of Quake Live you will get owned. Sorry, but facts are facts. And yes it does make it more difficult. Being a harder game, and it's mechanics makes it a more difficult game. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that?

How players look while they play is irrelevant, and I've seen many CoD players have fast awareness and actions like in Quake... At the end of the day, for every death a player receives, another player achieved a kill making all MPs equally difficult, the only difference is learning curve and the amount of game mechanics.StealthMonkey4

Congrats and missing the entire point to better your own non-existant argument. No, you've seen CoD hyped up on caffeine and in rage mode because some little kid blasted him with a grenade launcher. And that last part...doesn't even tie to the topic. That's how MP works. One person gets a kill and one person dies. Not everyone gets a 1:1 ratio. Learning curve and amount of game mechanics applies to skill for your knowledge of them. You're avoiding the topic :|

You also have to aim in CoD too, there's only a slight auto-aim, which doesn't even matter as ALL players have the same auto-aim, in fact a person with great aim may find it more difficult than one without auto-aim (though it's just his style) because auto-aim gives other players an edge but he doesn't need it. And lol at me being a "fool" unable to understand the complexity of what you are saying.StealthMonkey4

No you don't. Auto-aim bring your reticle to your opponent's body. It even slows it down so you don't aim away (Black Ops is very bad at this, and that's how you spot people behind walls.) Any skill required is null and void. It's aiming for you, and you aren't doing the aiming. All players having it, is just proving the game is made for casuals and you're only hurting your own argument by further proving what I've been saying. It's a casual game that doesn't require skill. Not to mention it has very large hitboxes, it gives the advantage to the people with higher latency due to a crappy P2P connection, and bullets that have instant travel and no spread.

[QUOTE="StealthMonkey4"]I wasn't putting words in your mouth, I was summing up all that you have said.ChubbyGuy40

Which I never once said. I never said anything like that. You put words in my mouth.

I've seen pro people play both and they are both equally impressive. One may require more skill to aim, kill, move, etc., however that does not make it any more difficult, because all players experience these same higher skill requirements.StealthMonkey4

So taking more skill does not make it harder? I'm sorry but that's insanely illogical. And no, even at the beginner levels of Quake Live you will get owned. Sorry, but facts are facts. And yes it does make it more difficult. Being a harder game, and it's mechanics makes it a more difficult game. Why is it so hard for you to comprehend that?

How players look while they play is irrelevant, and I've seen many CoD players have fast awareness and actions like in Quake... At the end of the day, for every death a player receives, another player achieved a kill making all MPs equally difficult, the only difference is learning curve and the amount of game mechanics.StealthMonkey4

Congrats and missing the entire point to better your own non-existant argument. No, you've seen CoD hyped up on caffeine and in rage mode because some little kid blasted him with a grenade launcher. And that last part...doesn't even tie to the topic. That's how MP works. One person gets a kill and one person dies. Not everyone gets a 1:1 ratio. Learning curve and amount of game mechanics applies to skill for your knowledge of them. You're avoiding the topic :|

You also have to aim in CoD too, there's only a slight auto-aim, which doesn't even matter as ALL players have the same auto-aim, in fact a person with great aim may find it more difficult than one without auto-aim (though it's just his style) because auto-aim gives other players an edge but he doesn't need it. And lol at me being a "fool" unable to understand the complexity of what you are saying.StealthMonkey4

No you don't. Auto-aim bring your reticle to your opponent's body. It even slows it down so you don't aim away (Black Ops is very bad at this, and that's how you spot people behind walls.) Any skill required is null and void. It's aiming for you, and you aren't doing the aiming. All players having it, is just proving the game is made for casuals and you're only hurting your own argument by further proving what I've been saying. It's a casual game that doesn't require skill. Not to mention it has very large hitboxes, it gives the advantage to the people with higher latency due to a crappy P2P connection, and bullets that have instant travel and no spread.

Listening to your fans is good--but only to a point. Fan feedback is important, but it can also dilute the creative process. Hence, what World of Warcraft has become: an amalgam of fan-desired features that has completely ripped away much of what gave that game class and character. I don't consider "listening to fans" to necessarily be a positive thing. It's a lot better to use your creativity to give people something they didn't know they wanted so badly until they have it, rather than to base your decisions on what you think people want. Do you know what happens when developers make games that people say they want? You should: it's half the games on store shelves nowadays.

I'd rather let creative people do what they do best. I don't want games that try to be everything to all people. I want games that are so awesome, everyone wants to play them. And there is a big difference between the two.

Yes, because Infinity Ward has such a good track record of "listening to the fans." :roll:

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="EliteM0nk3y"]

[QUOTE="Jebus213"]

I know right!

lordreaven

I love how it says that there is LAN in MW2 but that its some how worse than having lan in MW. They must really hate MW2 :P

I'm just going by the chart. I don't own MW2 for the PC. Heck my 360 version is scratched to h***