More Details Of Next Gen's Handcuff, "Lockhart" Leak

Source

"The leaked document also mentions a Lockhart profiling mode. Sources familiar with Microsoft’s Xbox plans tell The Verge that this special Lockhart mode is part of the Xbox Series X developer kit. The devkit, codenamed Dante, allows game developers to enable a special Lockhart mode that has a profile of the performance that Microsoft wants to hit with this second console. We understand that includes 7.5GB of usable RAM, a slightly underclocked CPU speed, and around 4 teraflops of GPU performance. The Xbox Series X includes 13.5GB of usable RAM, and targets 12 teraflops of GPU performance."

So not only will first party game development be handcuffed by the Xbox One for the foreseeable future, the Series X will be held back by a console that will be marginally better than the PS4 Pro for its lifetime. Sure the architecture improvements (but still AMD) and a real CPU and SSD will be nice improvements. But really? In 2020 Microsoft is gonna put out a 4TF machine with 7.5GB of usable RAM that will act as the baseline for the next several years... I might be done with Xbox hardware

Doesn't make sense to me at all. Why not just use X1 with 6 TF as the "Lockhart" console?

I mean it could sell late this year for $199.99. Unless they mean to hit the $99.99 price point. Yikes. lol :P

To be fair, that 4TFLOPS GPU will probably be more analogous to an X1X. Lends credibility to the rumors that the X1X will basically be replaced/retooled with the new hardware generation as the budget option.

The tablet level CPU would be my guess.

@SecretPolice: I guess we'll have to see - I don't work in this industry but I suspect it's cheaper to manufacture both next gen models from the same "mold" (literally, in terms of case and controller designs, etc; but also figuratively in terms of using the same current-generation chips and so-on) than to maintain two lines of production

Ooofff... if this is true now dev had to cater to even lower xbox specs.. man xbox, I know ur just a console but stop hindering progress. Terrible.

It will just be a 1080p/no RT unit. Its not going to hold anything back.

I really don’t see what the big deal is myself. They do this kind of stuff on PC all the time. 🤷‍♂️

The CPU is the problem. Lockhart CPU is significantly stronger than X1, the GPU is better despite being only 4TFLOPS and it has an SSD.

@Pedro: @xantufrog: @fedor:

Thanks all, makes it bit more sense to me and I suppose the whole TF thing can be a bit deceiving at times.

This is how the plan on undercutting Sony? Good luck I guess.

I wonder if this is a way to also offset the cost of the SOC (or to basically get more out of a wafer) too. the XSX has a big SOC and still has 4CUs disabled. i wonder if lockheart is just lower binned silicon with more disabled or have MS specifically designed 2 different SOCs. 7nm is pricey at the moment. so this way they are dumping less silicon.

If the price is right it could be very tempting for a lot of people who just want something to play easier to run games...and GTA5 online :P.

I wonder if MS will also stop X1 production very quickly after the XSX and XSS (just speculating there) release.

will they do an even cheaper XSS all digital also?

Weak pc's like what ghost has didn't handcuff devs from making CP2077.

@hardwenzen: Well to be fair, nothing runs Cyberpunk 2077 well above 1080p with raytracing right now as far as we know. And we sure haven’t seen the games performance and fidelity on consoles yet. So maybe that game shouldn’t be used as an example just yet

I would not be surprised if they already stop production.

Lockhart 1080-60 ultra aimed at the HD tv crowd.....I don’t see anything holding the x back....when devs use its potential properly you get RDR2-metro exodus,FH4 and co getting high praise from DF

@Pedro: maybe though we would usually get a news article on that. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they stop production very quickly though.

in that context lockheart does make a lot of sense on the surface (though we do need more info on pricing). keeps any barriers to entry for the xbox ecosystem at a minimum and keeps production easier for MS too (no need to source any more X1 parts).

I dont care, as long as dev's make their games for the Series X in mind, because that's what i'll be buying.

im sure the majority of people will buy the lockhart though because of its cheaper price.

Omg SXS games will look like cga graphics. Pre-order cancelled!

To be fair, nothing runs Quake 2 RTX well either.

That's my guess. I still don't believe these rumors, because it almost doesn't make sense.

But pricing something lower could give Microsoft some much needed advantage.

Also, another interpretation of Warren's comment could mean that this rumored sku won't be that cheap, maybe only undercutting Sony by a smaller factor than some expect.

Lol next gen handcuff. I lol'd.

Anyone expecting extra visual effects on the XSX over the PS5 can throw that out the window now. It's advantages will be strictly resolution or framerates.

Yeah if the rumors are true then I expect this to be between $299 and $399.

I don't see how it would "hold back" game development. Microsoft said for the first two years they'd make games that would work with multiple generation systems, but after that there will be games specifically for Series X.

With the power of these systems the sky is the limit for devs, especially later on in to next gen.

@briguyb13: Do you think they are going to release a new X1X-alike (Lockhart) and stop making games for it after two years? No way - because it (apparently) exists, I think MS will at least maintain FC for the og X1X and the Lockhart for most of the generation; I could see the base X1 getting dropped though - it's just such painfully date hardware. It's like DF was saying in their CP2077 video - you can scale assets back to run on these old systems thanks to the standardized architecture, but at some point you risk losing the identity and performance standards of the game. They'll have to move on eventually.

@Pedro: so... redesign the x1x with the lockheart CPU? Not sure if possible but if so, why the hell not!?

But just because XSS exists, does that mean devs can't target XSX instead? And don't they have different standards, like Xbox One vs Xbox One X? Didn't developers make dedicated games for the higher end machines this gen?

I mean, I'm not a programmer or developer, just a game enthusiast, so I don't understand the ins and out of all that mess.

It would be a mistake IMO to sell such a thing other than a streaming service box that can play XB1 games locally. Requiring devs to optimize for multiple Xbox types will be too burdensome. If rumors regarding a $400 Series X are true I think they should scrap the Lockhart. Or like others said, make it at least an XB1X.

And if streaming box is what they want, I think they should just update current XB1 consoles to use the feature.

What IS this model? Is it stronger or weaker than the X? Xbox first party is trying to juggle and support too many consoles at once. They're segmenting their market way too much.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see how XSS will hold back next gen. All the games will have assets for the more powerful XSX.

It just seems like MS is intent on shooting themselves in the foot. They build this big, powerful console, and can't even use it to its full potential because of intentionally holding themselves back. Ridiculous.

@briguyb13: I think I just misunderstood your initial comment. My point is I don't see them launching a new "entry level console" that will cease to get MS first party after a couple of years. If that's not what you were implying my bad - no doubt they will make sure every one of their first party games has at least several features that take advantage of the extra power of the XSX, even though the game has an XSS or whatever version too

ITT People who don't understand how development and scaling work.

I think your got your consoles confused. 😎\

Also its not going to hold anything back.

@Pedro: Lol, true. The PS5 is a skyscraper.

As for XSX, dude, come on. It's obvious the console will be held back because of MS's policies.

The GPU should be the only difference between the two. Low-end console targets 1080p and high end targets 4K. That way games can easily scale and the scope of the games are unaffected. As soon as you start having different CPU and RAM specs, you end up fucking the developers and ultimately the gamers.

No! Its not being held back. Is gaming being held back because the PS5 is weaker than the Series X and PC? Is the use of SSDs being held back because the Series X SSD is slower?

@Pedro: Um PC is potentially stronger than BOTH PS5 and series X. Nice try there. PS5 and Series X is in the same ballpark. Series S is only 4tf but you're whining about PS5 lmao. What clowntalk.

@Pedro: No to the PS5 questions.

Yes the XSX will be held back by MS's policies. You'll just have to live with it, dude.

A lot of WRONG here first of all it won't be handcuffed. 3rd party game developers can do as they please and only put games on the XSS and the XSX it's only MS first party that will still ship on both Xbox One systems and the XSS and XSX for the first year. Also the XSS aka Lockhart will have the same CPU that's in the XSX so this means all games can have the same performance and 60-120fps just the Lockhart will have lower resolutions like 1080p-1440p and you also fail to remember that this is RDNA 2 so tflops mean over twice as fast as current PS4 Pro and X1X.

I still remember ubisoft 30fps "parity" bullshit and that its actually console makers that pressuring them. Its a good read.

I just don't see the appeal of launching it alongside the Series X while also commiting to supporting the Xbox One.

If cost is your main issue, you'd be better off going with the Xbox One until there's absolutely no more support.

And trust me, we'll have cross gen games for much longer this time around. Large publishers will not accept dropping 10s of millions of customers anymore. Also, F2P, games will carry those last gen consoles for a while.

I think you should avoid talking about tech. Its not your thing. 😎

Well, perhaps you should avoid it, actually. The fact that the XSX will be held back by MS's policies is eating you alive, lol.

Is it confirmed it's a console? Maybe it's a handheld? Like a switch.

Don't confuse your ignorance as mine and also it is not a fact. Seems you Sony fannies are struggling with facts as of late. 😎

@Pedro: Aaaaaand he's getting pissed. Like clockwork.

Don't worry, dude. You'll find a way to deal with the XSX being held back by MS's policies. Maybe then you'll stop feeling the urge to reply when you're obviously being trolled.

(hint, hint)

Isn't that cute. She thinks I am pissed. I didn't expect you to fall victim being threatened by the Series X. 😎

Technically, if MS has to spend any extra resources (time, money, employees, etc.) on creating different assets for the Lockhart over XsX, it is a handcuff. However! Most don’t know how the software and hardware work here, minus a few people, and saying that handicap is even noticeable requires proof. Which no Sony fanboy has shown here.

Not to mention the fact that if the profits go up due to Lockhart you could argue it pays for the asset creations. This in turn could bleed back into all development. And what does that mean? It means that Lockhart actually pushes the XsX, instead of holding it back.

And let’s take note that if according to Sony fanboys Lockhart will hold XsX back, what do you think the PS5 will do?

But I wouldn’t know anything about software development or business, so ignore me.