More Details Of Next Gen's Handcuff, "Lockhart" Leak

@tormentos: Oh boy. Uh lemme try and explain this ....again. One dude suggested that the xsx would get held back because of the xss. Hint: It won't. It has the same cpu, so no matter how complex the game gets, it'll run on xss at a lower resolution.

As an addendum to his argument, I hypothesized that if HE thought an xss with the same cpu would hold back an xsx, wouldnt a ps5 hold back a game even more if it has a weaker cpu?

I'll show you PS5's cpu upgrade when you show me an Xbox One cpu upgrade...

@ellos: agreed, but it stands to reason whatever money Sony could effectively subsidize a discless PS5 with due to increased digital sales, Microsoft could also do the same for a discless Series S.. Particularly with their investment in Game Pass.. So, for me, the point is moot..

That said, if anybody believe a $399 10~TF PS5 is possible simply because it's discless, then they better also believe a $249 4TF Series S is also possible for the same reason.. And honestly, if the PS5 is $399, I'd say Microsoft needs go for a price of $199 for the Series S.. Unlikely, but I personally believe that the Series S needs to have about a $200 price gap between it and the lowest priced PS5.. $150 may be enough but Microsoft needs to be really aggressive on price in my opinion..

They arguably lost the most important gen as many people are locked into these respective ecosystems at this point with digital content and subscriptions.. Bold moves are needed this generation for Xbox and I think this Series X and S strategy along with Game Pass and XCloud are perfect starts.. They just have to execute.. And this stare-off on pricing is the first major step..

@Antwan3K: For sure they both have that option. It will depend on how aggressive they want to take the risk. I just wanted to point out its possible. The thinking is that its not the disc that cuts the price. It makes sense for them gamepass is doing its thing and psn has been an absolutely monster for sony.

hypocrite lemming for pointing out your flip flop on the same comment. quoting the minimum as the actual and is bad enough but to then quote lower in the same quote just makes you look stupid.

I'm not the one who has claimed one console will be £$100's more, if anything I said rumors keep quoting the series X as being lower but we will have to wait and see.

Flip flop flip flop

The only flip flopping is on your part you can't even counter my price argument.

When people here say 40% you say shit i say 13% and you ran and dived into my post,trying to make some kind of point,you walked right in.

YOU you self have argue more than 18% gap your self.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/dashboard-wars-ps5-vs-xbox-series-x-dashboards-spe-33497158/

You believe the xbox series X will have 30 to 40% advantage in some games.

I say 13% on purpose and you freak out but you have claim 40% which is totally moronic given the fact that the PS5 even dropping frequency will never go as low as to have that gap.

I try to bring logic you and your lemming frined have a problem with it since 2013 when you think a shitty api or cloud would do anything for the xbox one.

So please tell me how just having faster SSD will over come.

Bigger SSD

Much bigger GPU

Faster ram chips

and wider bus.

Dude stop i know what you were saying and i know what the other guy was saying to.

But implying the PS5 would handcuff the series X because the xbox is 18% stronger is not the same.

Dude processing power is not all that it is importan,just because you have the same CPU doesn't mean just quality is what will suffer,the series X is 300% stronger than lockheart.

Both can be that the problem is losses,the PS5 supposedly cost $400+ to make,and the only report we have on it cited Nand and DRAM prices as the culprit,the xbox series X and series S both will use Nand flash and dram as well.

They have the same CPU,with same SSD probably i don't see how they can put a 512GB one,just smaller GPU and less ram will be the difference,so while there will be a drop in price for those components the machine still carry a full blown Ryzen 2 the exact same the series X has and the SSD will probably be the same,i don't see how to make the series S can cost $300 less to make than the series X.

Is also hard for sony to reach $400 on the digital version without losing something,i will say impossible,at $250 i think MS will loss more on lockheart.

Selective context and flip flopping, your list of characteristics grows.

I copied someone else's claim and then corrected myself. How many times have you falsely claimed 18% and now 13%.

At least I didn't say it would be £$200 - £$400 more or there was no chance of them having SSD.

@tormentos: "But implying the PS5 would handcuff the series X because the xbox is 18% stronger is not the same."

Hey Einstein....you still dont get it. I never implied that the ps5 would handcuff the xsx. I took someone's logic and applied it to ps5....

Next time, try and read slowly before you have a meltdown.

NO there is not selctive context here you claimed 30% to 40% in some games.

Falsely? The GPU gap between the xbox series X and PS5 is 18.3% if the GPU drops 3% DF claim on its video,that gap grows to 21% again is not close to 30% or 40%.

Which is when other lemmings bring this numbers you say shit.

Quote me saying it will cost $200 or $400 more..🤣🤣🤣

You have evaded my argument like 10 times now.

How can just a faster SSD have greater cost than.

Much bigger GPU.

Faster Ram chips.

wider bus and bigger SSD which mean more nand flash which is one of the reasons for the PS5 supposedly higher manufacturing cost.

If there is a machine that can hit $400 with less losses is sony their GPU is considerably smaller while keep clocks higher,it has a smaller ssd slower ram and less wider bus.

I also said I'd quoted someone else and was wrong and corrected myself.

You said more CU equals £$200-£$400 more cost.

I'm not the one that said one console will cost more. You did

How many times you quoted 18% wrongly.

this is fun

no its just it is rumored to be a 4 teraflop machine with a ssd and cpu that is more powerful than the 6 teraflop one x. so for them to tell you a 2 less teraflop machine is stronger than the 6 teraflop machine.

there goes the teraflop hype.

No i say more CU = $200 more on PC market which is true a 5500 doesn't cost the same as a 5700,just like the 2070rtx doesn't cost the same as the 2080ti either.

So if the argument is the PS5 ssd is expensive based on PC cost,well the xbox GPU is expensive as well based on PC.

Again prove to me that 18.3% isn't the gap and prove that it is wrong.

18.3% thats a more specific number, you got proof of that cos according to Mr Sony that number could increase, yet you continue to claim 18%.

As I said I'm not the one saying the PS5 will cost more, you are. As you have just repeated a part of, more CU equals $£200 - $£400 more according to you.

You clearly still don't understand what you're talking about. 4tflop of RDNA2 will outperform 6 tflop of Polaris... They are different architectures, and RDNA2 is much better. PS5 and XSX both use the same architecture, therefore the tflop comparisons are apt. XSX is stronger, deal with it and stop talking about things you don't have a clue about, Mr. Meltdown.

Yah it could to 21% probably the xbox series X will win 1 frame more from that.😂

So according to you GPU with more CU on PC don't cost more.😂

After all that babble the PS5 is still overclocked and weaker than Series X even on it's best days. Just imagine what it would be like on its worst days. 😂

Same. That seems to be a more reasonable proce. $499 just seems too low.

Why/when would/have I say/said that when its clearly not the case?

I see now your trying to put words into peoples mouths in a desperate attempt to deflect the daft things you said.

Wonder whats next.

21% might be closer to the truth so why have you said 18% loads of times.

Why should I now take you seriously?

Did i say the xbox would cost $200 $400 more? No didn't stop you for making that claim.

Because based on DF article the GPU will almost ways run at 2.23ghz if that is the case the gap will almost always be 18.3% there is no way around that.

It can grow? sure to probably 21% again going by DF.

Now from what part did you pull 30% and 40% because yeah that is a pretty big gap from the actual gap,in fact from close to double to more than double the actual gap by numbers.

My points are based on specs your on wishful thinking.

So why should anyone take YOU seriously.

Yes and who claim other wise?

That is as undeniable as lockhart having the worse version and the xbox been redundant.

We already know the lockhart would be weaker because well it supposed to be weaker. No one has tried to bend reality to claim it has hidden powers like the PS5 SSD as some of the folks from your faction has done and continuously do.

aa so you admit you have been wrong all this time quoting 18%. About blinking time, but didn't stop you doing it.

I dont have any wishful thinking it doesn't matter to me what the price is, I'm fortunate to be able to buy one whatever the price is.

But according to you $£500 is the same as £$2k so everyone will be buying a PC. So maybe I should buy a couple of PC's instead.

Increase in CU equals $£100's of extra costs according you, thats what you said. Unless you are now saying that was meaningless cos it wasn't actual quotes of manufacturing costs.

Deal! Waiting!

Lol you think MS is going to release an Xbox One with Zen CPUs?

What in the world are you talking about? Are you sure you are in the right topic?

How am i wrong?

18.3% is the gap as long as the GPU is 2.23ghz,and that has been know for a while.

Now from where did you pull th 40% gap.

🤣

And there you go again trying to spin what i say.

Please prove to me that even 1/4 of the xbox one userbase payed $500 for the xbox one,prove to me that even 1/4 of the PS3 sold at $600 dollars.

So at $500 a console is as out of reach as a $2k PC is,soccer momns will not go running to spend $500 on a xbox for their sons like they would get a $300 platform or less,but again this show you again trying to misslead my argument which is pathetic.

Meanwhile you refuse to answer from where did you pull that the xbox will have a 40% gap,not even if the PS5 dropped to 9.2Tf that would make sense.

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Sapphire-11295-01-20G-Radeon-Backplate-Graphics/dp/B082G2YY99/ref=sr_1_11?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&crid=3OVAL70G9JC9I&dchild=1&keywords=amd+5500&qid=1593641028&s=electronics&sprefix=amd+5500%2Celectronics%2C351&sr=1-11

$209 5500XT 8GB

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/MSI-Gaming-Radeon-Boost-Clock/dp/B07WX19HDT/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=amd+5700&qid=1593641071&s=electronics&sr=1-1

5700 $382

CU difference 14CU

CU difference between the PS5 and xbox series X 16CU.

Is not me hell the 5700XT is even more expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Sapphire-11293-01-20G-Radeon-Backplate-Graphics/dp/B07WC7683C/ref=sr_1_6?__mk_es_US=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=amd+5700&qid=1593641166&s=electronics&sr=1-6

Is not ME this is a fact a bigger GPU will cost more and MS will pay more for its SOC.

Now the gap for sony and MS is not $200 per unit,but probably $30 or $40 more per GPU is not out of the question.

Now please stop spinning and tell me how can the xbox and PS5 cost the same or the xbox cost less.

@xhedon You asked for a link for a PS5 cpu upgrade. I asked you for an Xbox One CPU upgrade.

Looks like you either didn't read my post or you didn't comprehend it. If you think the slightly slower clock speed of the PS5 is a handcuff, what do you make of the Xbox One with its terrible jaguar cpu? Because MS is making games that will be playable on Xbox One for the first two years of next gen.

in July, Xbox is going to have a gig showing some 60+ games

Meanwhile, the ps5 will actually be holding gaming back as that’ll be the weakest of the bunch - assuming a Switch port isn’t in the works.

How can the PS5 be the weakest with Lockhart?

And yet MS is designing from the TOP down, starting NATIVELY with the Xbox Series X, kinda like how PC does it since the beginning of time.

Waiting for your link showing the PS5 CPU was upgraded. We will wait here.

Like I said, you're a terrible troll. PC games are designed with low end hardware in mind. AKA, slow hard drives. You literally picked the worst example.

What you're saying is devs will be handcuffed by 100 Mhz difference but not by a hard drive that's 100 times slower.

Fanboys...

Now the gap for sony and MS is not $200 per unit,but probably $30 or $40 more per GPU is not out of the question.

You got proof thats what it will be? and why didn't you write that in the first place.

To answer both your questions (again)

I quoted someone else and then corrected myself.

Xbox and PS5 can cost whatever they choose them to be and manufacturing costs is only one variable to this equation. I've never said they WILL be the same cost, rumors have and they can be wrong.

To answer the other question

I dont take myself seriously on this forum, so I dont expect anyone else too.

the difference is I freely admit it, can you?

Only when your dumb.

@Grey_Eyed_Elf: *you’re

GFY.

Huh, who saw that comin? lol :P

@Zero_epyon: your trolling efforts haven’t gone unnoticed. Please show us where Sony upgraded the CPU. K 🙏

@xhedon: PS5 CPU upgrade does not exist. Overclocking the CPU maybe? I be surprise if that was possible lol.

@xhedon: only fanboys see facts as trolling.

TL;DR

Most games will most likely run 1080p/60 with the occasional 1440p/60. Maybe 1080p/30 with ray tracing.

@Zero_epyon: This is something we already knew. The CPU is the main hold back for current gen and since the CPU difference between the X and S are negligible its a no issue. Also the hold back claim really equates to "I don't want to make my game design work under --fill in-- constraints " and less about actually being held back.

Why is this even a thread? Lowest common denominator = xbox one, therefore games on xbox will be held back because of it /thread.

lowest common denominator on PC = Integrated GPU or any other old slow GPU, that hasn't help PC back all this time.

Here's more stuff about the Xbox Series S.

https://wccftech.com/xbox-series-s-lockharts-20-cus-will-not-hold-back-next-gen-games-consoles-small-form-factor-hinted-at/

Interesting.

Xbox Series S is gonna be a little beast.

It’s literally designed to be a 1080p machine that can upscale if there is GPU room. Obviously Xbox Series S and PS5 wont compete with Xbox Series X in terms of visuals. But the same CPU with the same RAM is gonna be more than enough to give a next generation experience.

Yeah, tell that to others though that are in denial and trolling.

Man you still didn't get the point. I'll say it again. If you think a 100mhz difference is a handcuff, then what's the Xbox One S with those Jaguar cores? A prison?