MS Says You Can DL A Video From XBL While PS3 Version Installs GTA?

Those "crappy" nintendo characters have outsold and outscored anything on your precious 360, "son", and it's pretty typical for a die hard lemming to diss MGS4 these days so I wont go there.

SMR-Venom

out sold? Britney spears out sold my favourite artists album, do you want me to start worshiping her? And its not that hard to diss on a 20 hour long poorly acted cut scene montage with 2 mins of gameplay inbetween.

YOU CAN DL a video from XBL while Ps3 verson installs GTA.

OR

YOU CAN send your xbox360 in for repairs wile you play GTA on your ps3.

Ill take ps3.

4seal

BWHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!!! welcome to the party

[QUOTE="SMR-Venom"]

Those "crappy" nintendo characters have outsold and outscored anything on your precious 360, "son", and it's pretty typical for a die hard lemming to diss MGS4 these days so I wont go there.

Sgt_Grig

out sold? Britney spears out sold my favourite artists albums, do you want me to start worshiping to her? And its not that hard to diss on a 20 hour long poorly acted cut scene montage with 2 mins of gameplay inbetween.

Wow, it's official. You are the biggest lemming on this board.

Let me guess, you never experinced the RROD, so it doesnt exist.
Halo 3 is the best FPS ever, easily.
$50 is spare change to play online a year
$100 for WiFi/20 GB is a steal!!!
And the PS3 has no games.

Is that about right?

[QUOTE="SMR-Venom"]

Those "crappy" nintendo characters have outsold and outscored anything on your precious 360, "son", and it's pretty typical for a die hard lemming to diss MGS4 these days so I wont go there.

Sgt_Grig

out sold? Britney spears out sold my favourite artists albums, do you want me to start worshiping to her? And its not that hard to diss on a 20 hour long poorly acted cut scene montage with 2 mins of gameplay inbetween.

I see you did not comprehend where I said outscored, and you really need to play a game before judging it, newb ;)

Whoa this thread has gone out of control :?

[QUOTE="Sgt_Grig"][QUOTE="SMR-Venom"]

Those "crappy" nintendo characters have outsold and outscored anything on your precious 360, "son", and it's pretty typical for a die hard lemming to diss MGS4 these days so I wont go there.

carljohnson3456

out sold? Britney spears out sold my favourite artists albums, do you want me to start worshiping to her? And its not that hard to diss on a 20 hour long poorly acted cut scene montage with 2 mins of gameplay inbetween.

Wow, it's official. You are the biggest lemming on this board.

Let me guess, you never experinced the RROD, so it doesnt exist.
Halo 3 is the best FPS ever, easily.
$50 is spare change to play online a year
$100 for WiFi/20 GB is a steal!!!
And the PS3 has no games.

Is that about right?

Seriously, and I thought 'PS3_FTW' was bad :| and he was a PS3 fanboy, looks like we got ourselves a 360 equivelant.

Nice cheap shot Sony!

Making your customers install games... lol

TheOwnerOner

Who cares? Its a one time install. I don't care if i have to wait for it to download - I've waited years for this game to come out. Why cant i just wait a few hours for it to download it? :|

Wow, it's official. You are the biggest lemming on this board.

Let me guess, you never experinced the RROD, so it doesnt exist.
Halo 3 is the best FPS ever, easily.
$50 is spare change to play online a year
$100 for WiFi/20 GB is a steal!!!
And the PS3 has no games.

Is that about right?

carljohnson3456

im on a launch 360, ur right. Halo3 is a fun game, the best? no, thats halflife and Team fortress, if i can afford a 400 dollar machine, i can afford 4 bucks a month. Wifi is horrible for online games, so ethernet cable FTW! the ps3 has no games thats worth spending the money on.

you almost had it.

try harder next time

btw, how does it feel when you get a taste of your own medicine, this is how idiotic you cows look

[QUOTE="Sgt_Grig"][QUOTE="SMR-Venom"]

Those "crappy" nintendo characters have outsold and outscored anything on your precious 360, "son", and it's pretty typical for a die hard lemming to diss MGS4 these days so I wont go there.

SMR-Venom

out sold? Britney spears out sold my favourite artists albums, do you want me to start worshiping to her? And its not that hard to diss on a 20 hour long poorly acted cut scene montage with 2 mins of gameplay inbetween.

I see you did not comprehend where I said outscored, and you really need to play a game before judging it, newb ;)

i already have, i grew out of random italian stereo types jumping on other cartoon characters a while ago. sorry, someday you will too

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]Wow, it's official. You are the biggest lemming on this board.

Let me guess, you never experinced the RROD, so it doesnt exist.
Halo 3 is the best FPS ever, easily.
$50 is spare change to play online a year
$100 for WiFi/20 GB is a steal!!!
And the PS3 has no games.

Is that about right?

Sgt_Grig

im on launch 360, ur right. Halo3 is a fun game, the best? no, thats halflife and Team fortress, if i can afford a 400 dollar machine, i can afford 4 bucks a month. Wifi is horrible for online games, so ethernet cable FTW! the ps3 has no games thats worth spending the money on.

you almost had it.

btw, how does it feel when you get a taste of your own medicine, this is how idiotic you cows look

First of all if you say PS3 has no game worth spending money on, let me remind you, you probably have one of those multiplatform games already. Its great you are on launch 360, maybe you should go play it and not sit here justifying your purchase before it evenyuallu gets the RRoD. Im wasting sleep on this, peace out SW.

[QUOTE="SMR-Venom"][QUOTE="Sgt_Grig"][QUOTE="SMR-Venom"]

Those "crappy" nintendo characters have outsold and outscored anything on your precious 360, "son", and it's pretty typical for a die hard lemming to diss MGS4 these days so I wont go there.

Sgt_Grig

out sold? Britney spears out sold my favourite artists albums, do you want me to start worshiping to her? And its not that hard to diss on a 20 hour long poorly acted cut scene montage with 2 mins of gameplay inbetween.

I see you did not comprehend where I said outscored, and you really need to play a game before judging it, newb ;)

i already have, i grew out of random italian stereo types jumping on other cartoon characters a while ago. sorry, someday you will too

Are you kidding me? :lol:

[QUOTE="SMR-Venom]Are you kidding me? :lol:

You cant leave now man, it's just getting good!!! lol.

First of all if you say PS3 has no game worth spending money on, let me remind you, you probably have one of those multiplatform games already. Its great you are on launch 360, maybe you should go play it and not sit here justifying your purchase before it evenyuallu gets the RRoD. Im wasting sleep on this, peace out SW.

SMR-Venom

my brothers playing it right now, while listening to a podcast, thanks anyway, ill play it later. and if already have a multiplatform game how does that incline me to get the ps3? and when it "eventaullu" gets the rrod, i have my 3 year warranty, but thanks for your concern.

You cant leave now man, it's just getting good!!! lol.

carljohnson3456

Meh, this will probably still be up tomorrow, seeya.

Trust me, I've never seen a sheep, cow, hermit, or any other lemming act that idiotic.

carljohnson3456

*leaves a miror on the table*

go to page 2

Lawls. This is what happens Microsoft. The Xbox had a built in standard HDD and so should the 360. I have no clue why they wouldn't make the standard HDD which was their second biggest advantage last gen next to XBL. They have nobody to blame but themselves for this and now all they are doing.

Even with that I'd still go with the 360 version. Can't be left out on the game content.

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]Trust me, I've never seen a sheep, cow, hermit, or any other lemming act that idiotic.

Sgt_Grig

*leaves a miror on the table*

go to page 2

lol How cheesy. Anyway, what? The fact I said this,

Yeah, I said that. Ya know why? I actually own a 360. It has died on me twice in the first year I had it. Yeah, waiting to get my 360 back from the repair shop was much more annoying than it will be waiting for a 5 minute installation of GTA4. I love the 360, but it's faulty. The marketplace prices are a joke. It's not as good as the PS3 in my opinion.

Bottom line, I can at least make comments about the 360 because I actually own one. You dont own a PS3 but are claiming it has no games and that MGS4 (a game you've never played) has 2 minutes of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes. How am I acting idiotic again?

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10092&Itemid=53

Steal your first dozen or so cars and test out the improved vehicle handling?

·Check out the cool features on your mobile phone?

Rack up a 5 Star Wanted Rating?

Have a blast of your first MP game on Xbox LIVE?

Ditch the tracksuit chic and buy some new clothes?

Unlock your first GTA IV Achievement and boost your Gamerscore?

Big Deal or no?

PSP107

Thanks for this.

Priceless! Reminds me of the good ole days when Sega and Nintendo used to go at it with each other (except they were still respectful of each other. I'm not sure that there is any love between MS and Sony.)

lol How cheesy. Anyway, what? The fact I said this,

"I could install GTA 100x over and again and it still wouldnt take as long as it did to get my RROD 360 back... twice.

So, I'm waiting for the list of things gamers can do waiting for their 360s to return from the repair center. I dont see that memo coming from Microsoft."

Yeah, I said that. Ya know why? I actually own a 360. It has died on me twice in the first year I had it. Yeah, waiting to get my 360 back from the repair shop was much more annoying than it will be waiting for a 5 minute installation of GTA4. I love the 360, but it's faulty. The marketplace prices are a joke. It's not as good as the PS3 in my opinion.

Bottom line, I can at least make comments about the 360 because I actually own one. You dont own a PS3 but are claiming it has no games and that MGS4 (a game you've never played) has 2 minutes of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes. How am I acting idiotic again?

carljohnson3456

i own a ps3, and now its at my friends house for 2 weeks, and im probably selling it because i dont use it. PSN is a pathetic excuse of an online service, The PSN store is a joke, downloading updates and then installing them? lol. on 360 i have trials for arcade game i bought, so i can see if i like the game before i buy it, PSN store lags behind in content, lol @ ppl who waited for the cod4 map packs while 360 got it first. I really had fun playing the COD4 BETA AND Battlefield beta on PSN...oh wait. i love waiting on lobbies waiting for some one to join my game, when someone joins they have no mic....woooo. i also loved it when i first got warhawk, and every time i went into a room they would reset my rank. i loved my 60$ heavenly sword that i finished in 2 afternoons. the controller is a joke, and im not paying another 50 bucks for a duel shock 3 since i already have 2 six axis ones.

......you want me to keep going, dont even try kid

[QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"]Or there 360can RRoD on you hile waiting for the installs :lol:lawlessx

if sony reponds with that i would laugh so hard! :lol:

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

lol How cheesy. Anyway, what? The fact I said this,

"I could install GTA 100x over and again and it still wouldnt take as long as it did to get my RROD 360 back... twice.

So, I'm waiting for the list of things gamers can do waiting for their 360s to return from the repair center. I dont see that memo coming from Microsoft."

Yeah, I said that. Ya know why? I actually own a 360. It has died on me twice in the first year I had it. Yeah, waiting to get my 360 back from the repair shop was much more annoying than it will be waiting for a 5 minute installation of GTA4. I love the 360, but it's faulty. The marketplace prices are a joke. It's not as good as the PS3 in my opinion.

Bottom line, I can at least make comments about the 360 because I actually own one. You dont own a PS3 but are claiming it has no games and that MGS4 (a game you've never played) has 2 minutes of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes. How am I acting idiotic again?

Sgt_Grig

i own a ps3, and now its at my friends house for 2 weeks, and im probably selling it because i dont use it. PSN is a pathetic excuse of an online service, The PSN store is a joke, downloading updates and then installing them? lol. on 360 i have trials for arcade game i bought, so i can see if i like the game before i buy it, PSN store lags behind in content, lol @ ppl who waited for the cod4 map packs while 360 got it first. I really had fun playing the COD4 BETA AND Battlefield beta on PSN...oh wait. the controller is a joke, and im not paying another 50 bucks for a duel shock 3 since i already have 2 six axis ones.

......you want me to keep going, dont even try kid

lol Oh ok, "kid". You're hardly worth arguing with. I dont care, your opinion is your opinion, that's fine. I've got mine, and you've got yours. But when you say MGS4 is a game with 20 hour cut scenes and 2 minutes of gameplay, I realise you're hardly the most rational person on this board. I dont care if you own a PS3 or not, you're opinion is so insanely biased it's crazy.

It's funny you say PSN is a pathetic excuse of online service, when the games are more stable on there than Xbox Live. You pay $50 a year to have the entire service go down on you at Christmas. If I was as irrational as you, I'd say "lol @ppl who got a 360 at Christmas and couldnt play COD4 online", but I'm not.

The PSN Store isnt a joke, it's actually pretty good if you get past the whole "it's not on the Xbox 360" thing. There are trials for alot of downloadable PSN games, like Pixel Junk Monsters. Besides, if downloading a Frogger demo before I buy it is really a reason the 360 is better... well... nevermind. How is the controller a joke? Oh, because it's not the 360s... I hear ya loud and clear.

I dont care man, you keep your opinion and I'll keep mine. I really could not care any less than I do right now. But I just think it's funny you want to talk about "insecure cows" when you're the one posting on this forum like you really are trying to protect the 360. That's pretty insecure if you ask me.

I'm getting off here. Later, kid.

[QUOTE="Sgt_Grig"][QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

lol How cheesy. Anyway, what? The fact I said this,

"I could install GTA 100x over and again and it still wouldnt take as long as it did to get my RROD 360 back... twice.

So, I'm waiting for the list of things gamers can do waiting for their 360s to return from the repair center. I dont see that memo coming from Microsoft."

Yeah, I said that. Ya know why? I actually own a 360. It has died on me twice in the first year I had it. Yeah, waiting to get my 360 back from the repair shop was much more annoying than it will be waiting for a 5 minute installation of GTA4. I love the 360, but it's faulty. The marketplace prices are a joke. It's not as good as the PS3 in my opinion.

Bottom line, I can at least make comments about the 360 because I actually own one. You dont own a PS3 but are claiming it has no games and that MGS4 (a game you've never played) has 2 minutes of gameplay and 20 hours of cutscenes. How am I acting idiotic again?

carljohnson3456

i own a ps3, and now its at my friends house for 2 weeks, and im probably selling it because i dont use it. PSN is a pathetic excuse of an online service, The PSN store is a joke, downloading updates and then installing them? lol. on 360 i have trials for arcade game i bought, so i can see if i like the game before i buy it, PSN store lags behind in content, lol @ ppl who waited for the cod4 map packs while 360 got it first. I really had fun playing the COD4 BETA AND Battlefield beta on PSN...oh wait. the controller is a joke, and im not paying another 50 bucks for a duel shock 3 since i already have 2 six axis ones.

......you want me to keep going, dont even try kid

lol Oh ok, "kid". You're hardly worth arguing with. I dont care, your opinion is your opinion, that's fine. I've got mine, and you've got yours. But when you say MGS4 is a game with 20 hour cut scenes and 2 minutes of gameplay, I realise you're hardly the most rational person on this board. I dont care if you own a PS3 or not, you're opinion is so insanely biased it's crazy.

It's funny you say PSN is a pathetic excuse of online service, when the games are more stable on there than Xbox Live. You pay $50 a year to have the entire service go down on you at Christmas. If I was as irrational as you, I'd say "lol @ppl who got a 360 at Christmas and couldnt play COD4 online", but I'm not.

The PSN Store isnt a joke, it's actually pretty good if you get past the whole "it's not on the Xbox 360" thing. There are trials for alot of downloadable PSN games, like Pixel Junk Monsters. Besides, if downloading a Frogger demo before I buy it is really a reason the 360 is better... well... nevermind. How is the controller a joke? Oh, because it's not the 360s... I hear ya loud and clear.

I dont care man, you keep your opinion and I'll keep mine. I really could not care any less than I do right now. But I just think it's funny you want to talk about "insecure cows" when you're the one posting on this forum like you really are trying to protect the 360. That's pretty insecure if you ask me.

I'm getting off here. Later, kid.

I swear its like two dogs of the same type seeing each other through a sliding glass door and keep running at and slamming into the glass.
your both wrong, but carljohnson all i've seen from you is im not biased, im not biased blah blah, yet your opinions seem to be just as insanely biased as his.

....Or just start downloading a film from Xbox LIVE Video Store to watch later - check out the latest batch of arrivals this weekend!"

this made me laugh

[QUOTE="lawlessx"]

[QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"]Or there 360can RRoD on you hile waiting for the installs :lol:AgentA-Mi6

if sony reponds with that i would laugh so hard! :lol:

OMG OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 minutes thats 300 seconds OMFG 300 seconds what am I going to do after waiting years for gta 4 I will have to wait 5 minutes more DAMN!!!!!!! the horror die sony die making me wait 5 minutes when i could kill 100 pedestrians in that time * feels angry *

THE HORROR GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

lol Oh ok, "kid". You're hardly worth arguing with. I dont care, your opinion is your opinion, that's fine. I've got mine, and you've got yours. But when you say MGS4 is a game with 20 hour cut scenes and 2 minutes of gameplay, I realise you're hardly the most rational person on this board. I dont care if you own a PS3 or not, you're opinion is so insanely biased it's crazy.

It's funny you say PSN is a pathetic excuse of online service, when the games are more stable on there than Xbox Live. You pay $50 a year to have the entire service go down on you at Christmas. If I was as irrational as you, I'd say "lol @ppl who got a 360 at Christmas and couldnt play COD4 online", but I'm not.

The PSN Store isnt a joke, it's actually pretty good if you get past the whole "it's not on the Xbox 360" thing. There are trials for alot of downloadable PSN games, like Pixel Junk Monsters. Besides, if downloading a Frogger demo before I buy it is really a reason the 360 is better... well... nevermind. How is the controller a joke? Oh, because it's not the 360s... I hear ya loud and clear.

I dont care man, you keep your opinion and I'll keep mine. I really could not care any less than I do right now. But I just think it's funny you want to talk about "insecure cows" when you're the one posting on this forum like you really are trying to protect the 360. That's pretty insecure if you ask me.

I'm getting off here. Later, kid.

Sgt_Grig

you dont care about my opinion, yet you come here and spew some more propaganda......LMAO!!!!! typical hypricital cows. im biased? because live is better than psn whether you like it or not. crying and whining wont change that. your comeback for all BS on PSN is that live was having problems for a single week due to heavy traffic???? LMAO!!!!!! nice. PSN has "lots of trials" and you managed to name one? kid, EVERY SINGLE ARCADE HAS A TRIAL ON THE 360, its not my fault you bought frogger ignoring the quality titles, question your judgement skills rather than blaming xboxlive.

"its a xbox thing" so the insanely light six axis with no rumble and horrible triggers are suppose to be good? before you point the "xbox thing", get rid off your Play station biased and then comeback, kid.

im trying to protect the 360? while every single criticism on the ps3 has one response, rrod. and when that fails you hide behind the pc..... are you cows that blind and ignorant to your own behavior?? pathetic kid.

LOL not this lemming again......dont even try talking to this guy his on autotmatic sony hate........its like talking to a wall

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"][QUOTE="lawlessx"]

[QUOTE="Gh0st_Of_0nyx"]Or there 360can RRoD on you hile waiting for the installs :lol:taker42

if sony reponds with that i would laugh so hard! :lol:

Just like mandatory installs am-I-right?

They are just saying it would be funny. Think about it and it would be. Did you see the vid of the 360 Red ringin at...tgs I believe. A guy made a vid of it but it was just too funny.

Sony just got taught an important life lesson. Don't **** with Microsoft. :DBioShockOwnz

Please man. MS are the "Johnny come Latelys" to the console party. MS needs to stay another gen then ill respect them like i do Sony. For me, they (MS) need to shut up and bring on games like GEARS 2.

MS better shut up and release some good exclusives this year besides GEARS 2!! I'm not keeping my 360 cause im a dumb fanboy like some on here. MS better get their head out of their azz with dumb comments toards the competition cause im actually buying my GTA4 for my PS3!! MS must learn not all 360 owners will follow them like a blind retard Have a nice day!! Gamersince81

Gears of War 2, Ninja Gaiden 2, Too Human, Banjo Threeie, on and on. That sounded like a big fanboy comment. If you don't like the exclusives, then sell it, but to say its only good exclusive is Gears of War 2 is flat out incorrect.

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Sony just got taught an important life lesson. Don't **** with Microsoft. :DGamersince81

Please man. MS are the "Johnny come Latelys" to the console party. MS needs to stay another gen then ill respect them like i do Sony. For me, they (MS) need to shut up and bring on games like GEARS 2.

You do know MS have been in the gaming bizz longer than Sony, right?

MS better shut up and release some good exclusives this year besides GEARS 2!! I'm not keeping my 360 cause im a dumb fanboy like some on here. MS better get their head out of their azz with dumb comments toards the competition cause im actually buying my GTA4 for my PS3!! MS must learn not all 360 owners will follow them like a blind retard Have a nice day!! Gamersince81

so..NG2,fable2,too human,TOV arent exclusives now?

[QUOTE="Gamersince81"]

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Sony just got taught an important life lesson. Don't **** with Microsoft. :Dxsubtownerx

Please man. MS are the "Johnny come Latelys" to the console party. MS needs to stay another gen then ill respect them like i do Sony. For me, they (MS) need to shut up and bring on games like GEARS 2.

You do know MS have been in the gaming bizz longer than Sony, right?

what! really! no way! :o :P

everytime i tell somebody this they try to "own" me by asking when microsoft released the xbox.

MS better shut up and release some good exclusives this year besides GEARS 2!! I'm not keeping my 360 cause im a dumb fanboy like some on here. MS better get their head out of their azz with dumb comments toards the competition cause im actually buying my GTA4 for my PS3!! MS must learn not all 360 owners will follow them like a blind retard Have a nice day!! Gamersince81

5 minutes isn't long, but how much space does this install take up? I mean this 40gig PS3 is gonna fill up pretty fast if devs keep forcing installs on Ps3 owners.xsubtownerx

And the DL content for GTA4 takes no room or time whatsoever. :roll:

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]5 minutes isn't long, but how much space does this install take up? I mean this 40gig PS3 is gonna fill up pretty fast if devs keep forcing installs on Ps3 owners.tmntPunchout

And the DL content for GTA4 takes no room or time whatsoever. :roll:

Oh I'm sorry I never knew you are forced to Download the exclusive content to play GTA IV on the 360.

Because the Game installations on the PS3 are optional, right?

[QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]5 minutes isn't long, but how much space does this install take up? I mean this 40gig PS3 is gonna fill up pretty fast if devs keep forcing installs on Ps3 owners.dragon_master11

And the DL content for GTA4 takes no room or time whatsoever. :roll:

Oh I'm sorry I never knew you are forced to Download the exclusive content to play GTA IV on the 360.

Because the Game installations on the PS3 are optional, right?

The way Lems on SW talk about the DLC it does pretty much seem mandatory that if you own the game you're going to get the DLC. Oh, and thanks for spending 1/5 of the time it would take to install GTA4 on a PS3 to reply to my message. 4 more and y ou're good to go.

I just want to know why the system with the "next-gen" disc format is the one that requires installs.swamprat_basic

Obviously, installs are up to devs and are not a mandatory requirement to run on the PS3 or all games would require an install. Good grief, I love hasty generalizations.

[QUOTE="dragon_master11"][QUOTE="tmntPunchout"]

[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]5 minutes isn't long, but how much space does this install take up? I mean this 40gig PS3 is gonna fill up pretty fast if devs keep forcing installs on Ps3 owners.tmntPunchout

And the DL content for GTA4 takes no room or time whatsoever. :roll:

Oh I'm sorry I never knew you are forced to Download the exclusive content to play GTA IV on the 360.

Because the Game installations on the PS3 are optional, right?

The way Lems on SW talk about the DLC it does pretty much seem mandatory that if you own the game you're going to get the DLC. Oh, and thanks for spending 1/5 of the time it would take to install GTA4 on a PS3 to reply to my message. 4 more and y ou're good to go.

Evey person who gets GTA IV on 360 is going to get the DLC 100%?

[QUOTE="swamprat_basic"]I just want to know why the system with the "next-gen" disc format is the one that requires installs.tmntPunchout

Obviously, installs are up to devs and are not a mandatory requirement to run on the PS3 or all games would require an install. Good grief, I love hasty generalizations.

So why do they choose Installations?