MSNBC talks piracy with stardock

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Jamex1987

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#1 Jamex1987
Member since 2008 • 2187 Posts

http://www.neowin.net/news/gamers/09/04/29/msnbc-looks-at-pc-gaming-piracy

On April 15th during a peak hour over 140,000 tried to play Demigod andof that only 12% bought the game. Looks like his take on piracy might be changing. Tools for server side authentication to play single player are currently in development and might be the future according to Stardock. This will have part of the game on a server so there is nothing to crack.This means you can only play if you are connected to the internet. Maybe the future might be mmos and flash games like Battlefield Heroes. Who knows...but piracy is getting out of control.

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True_Gamer_

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#2 True_Gamer_
Member since 2006 • 6750 Posts

http://www.neowin.net/news/gamers/09/04/29/msnbc-looks-at-pc-gaming-piracy

On April 15th during a peak hour over 140,000 tried to play Demigod andof that only 12% bought the game. Looks like his take on piracy might be changing. Tools for server side authentication to play single player are currently in development and might be the future according to Stardock. This will have part of the game on a server so there is nothing to crack.This means you can only play if you are connected to the internet. Maybe the future might be mmos and flash games like Battlefield Heroes. Who knows...but piracy is getting out of control.

Jamex1987
And still Empire Total War a single player game tops the charts in PC land (aka EU)....go figure.
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Jamex1987

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#3 Jamex1987
Member since 2008 • 2187 Posts
[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="Jamex1987"]

http://www.neowin.net/news/gamers/09/04/29/msnbc-looks-at-pc-gaming-piracy

On April 15th during a peak hour over 140,000 tried to play Demigod andof that only 12% bought the game. Looks like his take on piracy might be changing. Tools for server side authentication to play single player are currently in development and might be the future according to Stardock. This will have part of the game on a server so there is nothing to crack.This means you can only play if you are connected to the internet. Maybe the future might be mmos and flash games like Battlefield Heroes. Who knows...but piracy is getting out of control.

And still Empire Total War a single player game tops the charts in PC land (aka EU)....go figure.

Topping the charts could mean you are selling 50 copies but what on earth does that have to do with anything?
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Espada12

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#4 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

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Shafftehr

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#5 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts
Interesting, seeing as Stardock has been this forum's PC gamer argument for the viability of small developers on the PC.
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Shafftehr

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#6 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Espada12
Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:
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Espada12

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#7 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

Interesting, seeing as Stardock has been this forum's PC gamer argument for the viability of small developers on the PC.Shafftehr

Their stance hasn't changed on it, so I don't see why you made this comment. Did you watch the video?

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Espada12

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#8 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Shafftehr

Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

Gamestop made the game avaliable before you could buy it's their fault. I don't see your point once again when they are the ones who leaked it. Who else is to blame beside those who leaked it?

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Vandalvideo

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#9 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Shafftehr
Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

Demigod isn't really all that and a bag of chips. I can understand some peoples' reluctance to purchase it.
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Jamex1987

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#10 Jamex1987
Member since 2008 • 2187 Posts

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Shafftehr

Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

That's the thing I don't understand. There is always some excuse to why people pirate games but the real reason. I just want to try it to see if i can run it, DRM, and all sorts of excuses. The real reason is you can get something that cost money for free. Pirates can even play online using tunneling software. What I don't get is if you are willing to go through so much pain to play a game why not just buy it? If this problem keeps up publishers will begin to focus on other things like flash games, subscriptions, server side DRM etc. Not a good thing.

I feel bad for Stardock because they have a no DRM stance and the pirates caused the game to get somebad reviews.

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Shafftehr

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#11 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Espada12

Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

Gamestop made the game avaliable before you could buy it it's their fault. I don't see your point once again when they are the ones who leaked it. Who else is to blame beside those who leaked it?

Yes, they made it available, and 100,000 some people decided to illegally download it. This isn't unlike the Wolverine movie being leaked - yes, someone screwed up, but the people who went out and downloaded the game stole it. Saying that it was available to be stolen doesn't make the people who stole it any less guilty of theft, which leaves the thieves VERY blameworthy. I don't know what YOUR point is - that people who steal are just fine and dandy because it was possible for them to do so?...
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Myzz617

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#12 Myzz617
Member since 2008 • 2026 Posts
[QUOTE="Jamex1987"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

That's the thing I don't understand. There is always some excuse to why people pirate games but the real reason. I just want to try it to see if i can run it, DRM, and all sorts of excuses. The real reason is you can get something that cost money for free. Pirates can even play online using tunneling software. What I don't get is if you are willing to go through so much pain to play a game why not just buy it? If this problem keeps up publishers will begin to focus on other things like flash games, subscriptions, server side DRM etc. Not a good thing.

Perhaps you people should do some research on piracy. Bill gates is the richest PIRATE!!! Hackers and pirates all share the same skill sets.
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Vandalvideo

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#13 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Myzz617"] Perhaps you people should do some research on piracy. Bill gates is the richest PIRATE!!! Hackers and pirates all share the same skill sets.

I personally don't know how to tie the mast.
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Shafftehr

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#14 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"]Interesting, seeing as Stardock has been this forum's PC gamer argument for the viability of small developers on the PC.Espada12

Their stance hasn't changed on it, so I don't see why you made this comment. Did you watch the video?

On the contrary, he outright says that he can see all of this server-side protection DRM/etc etc coming because of things like this, and that this example is just more ammunition for those publishers who are making it happen. Kind of sad, really... PC gamers don't like DRM, but they've made the biggest champion against game DRM in PC gaming describe their latest game launch as "disheartening" because of piracy. Way to go guys!
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Shafftehr

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#15 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts
[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Vandalvideo
Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

Demigod isn't really all that and a bag of chips. I can understand some peoples' reluctance to purchase it.

Then don't purchase it. What's your point here, piracy is OK? As this video pretty clearly shows, it is just hurting even the most die-hard anti DRM PC developers.
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Vandalvideo

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#16 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Then don't purchase it. What's your point here, piracy is OK? As this video pretty clearly shows, it is just hurting even the most die-hard anti DRM PC developers.

I'm saying that you can't necessarily blame the pirates for the game selling poorly. There is more to this than just; Pirates booo, developers yaaay. PC Gamers won't purchase half efforts.
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Jamex1987

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#17 Jamex1987
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[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Then don't purchase it. What's your point here, piracy is OK? As this video pretty clearly shows, it is just hurting even the most die-hard anti DRM PC developers.Vandalvideo
I'm saying that you can't necessarily blame the pirates for the game selling poorly. There is more to this than just; Pirates booo, developers yaaay. PC Gamers won't purchase half efforts.

140,000 players and only 12% bought the game? I mean seriously that's really bad. I don't think the game is selling poorly. Sins of Solar empire tookalmost a year to sell 500,000 copies so their expectations for demigod couldn't be that high.

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Vandalvideo

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#18 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Jamex1987"] 140,000 players and only 12% bought the game? I mean seriously that's really bad.

And color me unsurprised. I mean Gas Powered Games first insults PC gamers saying we don't buy unique games. Then they hide under big brother Stardock. Now they put out a half-finished project and have big brother complain that people didn't buy it.
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Ek-Andy

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#19 Ek-Andy
Member since 2006 • 1930 Posts

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Blame gamestop. People couldn't buy the game but had a chance to try it, due to their stupidness.

Espada12

Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:

Gamestop made the game avaliable before you could buy it's their fault. I don't see your point once again when they are the ones who leaked it. Who else is to blame beside those who leaked it?

You've got to be kidding. So the game is being pirated by thousands of people, and it is the fault of a shop that released their copies a little earlier than planned, leading to the game being pirated a little bit faster? Yeah, right.

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Jamex1987

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#20 Jamex1987
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[QUOTE="Jamex1987"] 140,000 players and only 12% bought the game? I mean seriously that's really bad. Vandalvideo
And color me unsurprised. I mean Gas Powered Games first insults PC gamers saying we don't buy unique games. Then they hide under big brother Stardock. Now they put out a half-finished project and have big brother complain that people didn't buy it.

excuses excuses. I have no idea what you are talking about and I am sure the people that pirated the game don't know either. How would a pirate know a game is not finished before pirating it? The game was getting some good reviews until they near crashed the servers.
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Shafftehr

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#21 Shafftehr
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[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Then don't purchase it. What's your point here, piracy is OK? As this video pretty clearly shows, it is just hurting even the most die-hard anti DRM PC developers.

I'm saying that you can't necessarily blame the pirates for the game selling poorly. There is more to this than just; Pirates booo, developers yaaay. PC Gamers won't purchase half efforts.

He's not blaming pirates for bad sales, he's blaming pirates for essentially ruining the online experience for the paying customers - which is *entirely* true. Sorry, but this "pirates booo" because they're not doing any good - and you only say "developers yayyy" if you buy the game. Doing what was done here is just taking a big wet steaming dump on a developer that has a development model that many here (yourself included) claim to care about. Why the heck WOULDN'T you say "pirates boooo" in this case? Or let me guess, you were somewhere in that six figure number they've been quoting there Vandal. The sad fact which you're so deftly avoiding that stealing games, playing them online, and ruining it for paying customers is just a trashy thing to do. If they really didn't think the game was worth buying, why the heck are they online playing it? Sadly enough, this case just goes to show that extensive security measure make sense because PC gamers are so ready to justify piracy ta the drop of a hat - even when it is extremely hurtful to a developer who is trying very hard to keep some corner of PC gaming DRM free.
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#22 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Jamex1987"] excuses excuses. I have no idea what you are talking about and I am sure the people that pirated the game don't know either. How would a pirate know a game is not finished before pirating it? The game was getting some good reviews until they near crashed the servers.

From surveys that have been done of pirates from assorted companies it would seem to suggest that pirates do have an ear to the groudn when it comes to the industry. That was compounded by the way Gas Powered games treated their customers. The game is average at best with a lack of story and no direction.
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#23 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] He's not blaming pirates for bad sales, he's blaming pirates for essentially ruining the online experience for the paying customers - which is *entirely* true. Sorry, but this "pirates booo" because they're not doing any good - and you only say "developers yayyy" if you buy the game. Doing what was done here is just taking a big wet steaming dump on a developer that has a development model that many here (yourself included) claim to care about. Why the heck WOULDN'T you say "pirates boooo" in this case? Or let me guess, you were somewhere in that six figure number they've been quoting there Vandal. The sad fact which you're so deftly avoiding that stealing games, playing them online, and ruining it for paying customers is just a trashy thing to do. If they really didn't think the game was worth buying, why the heck are they online playing it? Sadly enough, this case just goes to show that extensive security measure make sense because PC gamers are so ready to justify piracy ta the drop of a hat - even when it is extremely hurtful to a developer who is trying very hard to keep some corner of PC gaming DRM free.

Because these developers didn't put out a worthwhile product. Excuse me for not caring for the average person's enjoyment of the game. I'm not going to be forced to play through a monotonous peice of crap without any back story just so some kid sitting in a room somewhere has mild enjoyment of the online segments of the game. People pirated the game because it was crap. It wasn'ta nything good at all.
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Espada12

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#24 Espada12
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[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Oh yeah, everyone's to blame but the hundred thousand who stole the game :lol:Ek-Andy

Gamestop made the game avaliable before you could buy it's their fault. I don't see your point once again when they are the ones who leaked it. Who else is to blame beside those who leaked it?

You've got to be kidding. So the game is being pirated by thousands of people, and it is the fault of a shop that released their copies a little earlier than planned, leading to the game being pirated a little bit faster? Yeah, right.

No release = no way to pirate the game. Gamestop is the major player to blame here. The people who released the wolverine movie before it was set to show ALLOWED it to be viewed by those who were willing to dl it. Who's fault is it that it's being pirated? Not the morons who leaked it?

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Espada12

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#25 Espada12
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[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] He's not blaming pirates for bad sales, he's blaming pirates for essentially ruining the online experience for the paying customers - which is *entirely* true. Sorry, but this "pirates booo" because they're not doing any good - and you only say "developers yayyy" if you buy the game. Doing what was done here is just taking a big wet steaming dump on a developer that has a development model that many here (yourself included) claim to care about. Why the heck WOULDN'T you say "pirates boooo" in this case? Or let me guess, you were somewhere in that six figure number they've been quoting there Vandal. The sad fact which you're so deftly avoiding that stealing games, playing them online, and ruining it for paying customers is just a trashy thing to do. If they really didn't think the game was worth buying, why the heck are they online playing it? Sadly enough, this case just goes to show that extensive security measure make sense because PC gamers are so ready to justify piracy ta the drop of a hat - even when it is extremely hurtful to a developer who is trying very hard to keep some corner of PC gaming DRM free.Vandalvideo
Because these developers didn't put out a worthwhile product. Excuse me for not caring for the average person's enjoyment of the game. I'm not going to be forced to play through a monotonous peice of crap without any back story just so some kid sitting in a room somewhere has mild enjoyment of the online segments of the game. People pirated the game because it was crap. It wasn'ta nything good at all.

I don't agree at all, people pirated the game because 1. They could not buy it(valve already did a study on this and has proven that it is a valid reason) and 2. They wanted to try it (aside from the regular pirates of course who gonna pirate anyway), the game is good IMO and it is sad to see it in this state but gamestop needs to take the majority of the blame here making it available to the public, the pirates themselves obviously can't be excused but if not for gamestop they would have nothing to pirate. It was irresponsible of gamestop to do what they did and I hope the employees there get thier act together (eh can't wish for people to get fired in these times)

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Shafftehr

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#26 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Jamex1987"] 140,000 players and only 12% bought the game? I mean seriously that's really bad.

And color me unsurprised. I mean Gas Powered Games first insults PC gamers saying we don't buy unique games. Then they hide under big brother Stardock. Now they put out a half-finished project and have big brother complain that people didn't buy it.

Oh come on... They insulted you? As in, some press release said something you didn't like so... What? That makes 100,000 thefts before the game is even released, ruining the bloody game for paying customers, just fine and dandy? You are working *so hard* to make it seem like that the pirates are doing here is just fine, in fact that THEY are the victims. Maybe I should get the PC gaming community a big bloody hanky and call your mommies because you were so callously insulted by Gas Power Games... TO ARMS! They must be destroyed, no means too drastic! The legal means any gaming consumer has of snubbing a developer like this is not buying the game. Let's just pretend for a second that all of these pirates really didn't think the game was good and wouldn't have bought it... So what are they doing playing it? This is inconsiderate to the developers, to the paying customers, and just disrespectful nonsense since you're claiming they just didn't think the game was that good anyways. Vandal, you're working overtime to say stealing is just fine and bloody dandy. Get a clue.
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Shafftehr

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#27 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts
I don't agree at all, people pirated the game because 1. They could not buy it(valve already did a study on this and has proven that is it a valid reason) and 2. They wanted to try it (aside from the regular pirates of course who gonna pirate anyway), the game is good IMO and it is sad to see it in this state but gamestop needs to take the majority of the blame here making it available to the public, the pirates themselves obviously can't be excused but if not for gamestop they would have nothing to pirate. It was irresponsible of gamestop to do what they did and I hope the employees there get thier act together (eh can't wish for people to get fired in these times)Espada12
I don't really get why you're so "GAMESTOP GAMESTOP GAMESTOP!" for the blame here. Yes, they screwed up... But if they HADN'T screwed up, the pirates would have just pirated the game anyways. It's not like that would have changed if Gamestop hadn't leaked it. Since Gamestop's role in this is incidental, while the pirates would have been jerks any which way, why is it you're so quick to shovel off blame for piracy on Gamestop?
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Vandalvideo

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#28 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Oh come on... They insulted you? As in, some press release said something you didn't like so... What? That makes 100,000 thefts before the game is even released, ruining the bloody game for paying customers, just fine and dandy? You are working *so hard* to make it seem like that the pirates are doing here is just fine, in fact that THEY are the victims. Maybe I should get the PC gaming community a big bloody hanky and call your mommies because you were so callously insulted by Gas Power Games... TO ARMS! They must be destroyed, no means too drastic! The legal means any gaming consumer has of snubbing a developer like this is not buying the game. Let's just pretend for a second that all of these pirates really didn't think the game was good and wouldn't have bought it... So what are they doing playing it? This is inconsiderate to the developers, to the paying customers, and just disrespectful nonsense since you're claiming they just didn't think the game was that good anyways. Vandal, you're working overtime to say stealing is just fine and bloody dandy. Get a clue.

Of course they insulted us. They said that PC gamers don't buy unique games and that we are all evil pirates...in no plain language. Gas Powered Games, in trying to find a scapegoat for going to consoles, said they didn't want to make any more PC games, then turn around and put out this abomination with Stardock to try and capitalize on the street cred that Stardock has. I'm not saying what pirates are doing is find and dandy, but I'm apathetic about another person's enjoyment of the game. You're not going to make me want to sit through a peice of crap game just so I can allow some other person to passively enjoy it. Sorry, but I'm not a masochist. You seem to think that I am justifying the use of piracy as a determent. Hardly, I personally bought the flipping game. I'm merely showing you that there are more people to blame here than just the pirates. You want to blame someone? Blame Gas Powered for failing to localize the game, having players connect with people in Russia through a one hour process, lack of any backstory, and gameplay which gets boring after a few play throughs. I'm not saying stealing is fine. I'm saying that you have to blame the developer too.
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Vandalvideo

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#29 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
I don't agree at all, people pirated the game because 1. They could not buy it(valve already did a study on this and has proven that it is a valid reason) and 2. They wanted to try it (aside from the regular pirates of course who gonna pirate anyway), the game is good IMO and it is sad to see it in this state but gamestop needs to take the majority of the blame here making it available to the public, the pirates themselves obviously can't be excused but if not for gamestop they would have nothing to pirate. It was irresponsible of gamestop to do what they did and I hope the employees there get thier act together (eh can't wish for people to get fired in these times)Espada12
I largely disagree. Peopel pirated the game because it was crap. It lacks story, the matchmaking takes hours, the lag is horrendous because of lack of regionalization, and there isn't any motivation for playing the game in the first place.
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#30 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts
Shafftehr, I agree...... Vandal, you are just giving horrible excuses. First of all, Demigod is a unique and fun game. So it isn't some shoddy half arsed game you are making it out to be. When only 12% of a game is bought, then that is pretty bad, and shows you how pc gamers really are. That is unacceptable, and cannot be defended in any way, unless you are a dirty crook. When one of the biggest anti drm people has had enough, then we know there is a problem. I am severely disappointed, and I hope piracy stops, but that probably won't happen until someone is punished.
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#31 agentfred
Member since 2003 • 5666 Posts

Demigod isn't really all that and a bag of chips. I can understand some peoples' reluctance to purchase it.Vandalvideo
I feel the same way, but I can't understand their decision to steal the game.

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#32 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts
[QUOTE="Espada12"]I don't agree at all, people pirated the game because 1. They could not buy it(valve already did a study on this and has proven that it is a valid reason) and 2. They wanted to try it (aside from the regular pirates of course who gonna pirate anyway), the game is good IMO and it is sad to see it in this state but gamestop needs to take the majority of the blame here making it available to the public, the pirates themselves obviously can't be excused but if not for gamestop they would have nothing to pirate. It was irresponsible of gamestop to do what they did and I hope the employees there get thier act together (eh can't wish for people to get fired in these times)Vandalvideo
I largely disagree. Peopel pirated the game because it was crap. It lacks story, the matchmaking takes hours, the lag is horrendous because of lack of regionalization, and there isn't any motivation for playing the game in the first place.

This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. First of all, why the hell would you pirate a game because it was crap. That is dumb in itself. Second of all, the game isn't crap, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is crap......
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Espada12

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#33 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

[QUOTE="Espada12"]I don't agree at all, people pirated the game because 1. They could not buy it(valve already did a study on this and has proven that is it a valid reason) and 2. They wanted to try it (aside from the regular pirates of course who gonna pirate anyway), the game is good IMO and it is sad to see it in this state but gamestop needs to take the majority of the blame here making it available to the public, the pirates themselves obviously can't be excused but if not for gamestop they would have nothing to pirate. It was irresponsible of gamestop to do what they did and I hope the employees there get thier act together (eh can't wish for people to get fired in these times)Shafftehr
I don't really get why you're so "GAMESTOP GAMESTOP GAMESTOP!" for the blame here. Yes, they screwed up... But if they HADN'T screwed up, the pirates would have just pirated the game anyways. It's not like that would have changed if Gamestop hadn't leaked it. Since Gamestop's role in this is incidental, while the pirates would have been jerks any which way, why is it you're so quick to shovel off blame for piracy on Gamestop?

Because had they not done that there would not have been near that amount of people ready to crash stardocks servers and the game wouldn't have been having as bad press as it did.

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Vandalvideo

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#34 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]Shafftehr, I agree...... Vandal, you are just giving horrible excuses. First of all, Demigod is a unique and fun game. So it isn't some shoddy half arsed game you are making it out to be. When only 12% of a game is bought, then that is pretty bad, and shows you how pc gamers really are. That is unacceptable, and cannot be defended in any way, unless you are a dirty crook. When one of the biggest anti drm people has had enough, then we know there is a problem. I am severely disappointed, and I hope piracy stops, but that probably won't happen until someone is punished.

Unique and fun? What part of sitting at "Game making in process" for an hour and intermittenly seeing "failed to establish a game" is fun? Oh, and let us not forget the fun part of trying to communicate with people from Russia and China. And the latency, oh boy is that great!
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Jamex1987

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#35 Jamex1987
Member since 2008 • 2187 Posts
[QUOTE="Shafftehr"] He's not blaming pirates for bad sales, he's blaming pirates for essentially ruining the online experience for the paying customers - which is *entirely* true. Sorry, but this "pirates booo" because they're not doing any good - and you only say "developers yayyy" if you buy the game. Doing what was done here is just taking a big wet steaming dump on a developer that has a development model that many here (yourself included) claim to care about. Why the heck WOULDN'T you say "pirates boooo" in this case? Or let me guess, you were somewhere in that six figure number they've been quoting there Vandal. The sad fact which you're so deftly avoiding that stealing games, playing them online, and ruining it for paying customers is just a trashy thing to do. If they really didn't think the game was worth buying, why the heck are they online playing it? Sadly enough, this case just goes to show that extensive security measure make sense because PC gamers are so ready to justify piracy ta the drop of a hat - even when it is extremely hurtful to a developer who is trying very hard to keep some corner of PC gaming DRM free.Vandalvideo
Because these developers didn't put out a worthwhile product. Excuse me for not caring for the average person's enjoyment of the game. I'm not going to be forced to play through a monotonous peice of crap without any back story just so some kid sitting in a room somewhere has mild enjoyment of the online segments of the game. People pirated the game because it was crap. It wasn'ta nything good at all.

Every single PC game gets pirated so by your logic all PC games are crap.
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Vandalvideo

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#36 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]]This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. First of all, why the hell would you pirate a game because it was crap. That is dumb in itself. Second of all, the game isn't crap, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is crap......

You can say I'm wrong all you want, but you cannot deny the HORRENDOUS match making, the TOTAL lack of regionalization, the void of story in the game, and the repetitive gameplay with a lack of maps!
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#37 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="Jamex1987"]] Every single PC game gets pirated so by your logic all PC games are crap.

It has to do with porportionality. The better a PC game is, the less likely people will be to pirate it. Give us a DRM free game with great gameplay and good matchmaking and they are all over it.
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lettuceman44

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#38 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="lettuceman44"]Shafftehr, I agree...... Vandal, you are just giving horrible excuses. First of all, Demigod is a unique and fun game. So it isn't some shoddy half arsed game you are making it out to be. When only 12% of a game is bought, then that is pretty bad, and shows you how pc gamers really are. That is unacceptable, and cannot be defended in any way, unless you are a dirty crook. When one of the biggest anti drm people has had enough, then we know there is a problem. I am severely disappointed, and I hope piracy stops, but that probably won't happen until someone is punished.

Unique and fun? What part of sitting at "Game making in process" for an hour and intermittenly seeing "failed to establish a game" is fun? Oh, and let us not forget the fun part of trying to communicate with people from Russia and China. And the latency, oh boy is that great!

Smart mouth much? Yea, cause that really is part of the gameplay..... hey, you know why there is matchmaking problems? Oh yea, maybe because it was pirated eh?
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Firelore29

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#39 Firelore29
Member since 2007 • 4158 Posts
Granted this is a bad deal for the company. I have to say though that his statement that the average review was 5 out of 10 had very little to do with the Online. The game had flaws and the gaming sites listed them. The other thing is that this company really should have done a better job to prevent hacked versions of the game. It's not that difficult simply give each game an access code and then only allow that access code online once. It's really not brain surgery they simply failed to setup the game properly.
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lettuceman44

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#40 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="lettuceman44"]]This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. First of all, why the hell would you pirate a game because it was crap. That is dumb in itself. Second of all, the game isn't crap, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is crap......

You can say I'm wrong all you want, but you cannot deny the HORRENDOUS match making, the TOTAL lack of regionalization, the void of story in the game, and the repetitive gameplay with a lack of maps!

Why would you pirate a crap game? Also, that is your opinion. The only problems with the game are internet connectivity imo.
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Vandalvideo

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#41 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="lettuceman44"] Smart mouth much? Yea, cause that really is part of the gameplay..... hey, you know why there is matchmaking problems? Oh yea, maybe because it was pirated eh?

I fail to see what pirating has to do with matchmaking problems. They put out this product in an incomplete state with a total lack of regionalization which has many fights with latency in the 900s, and people speaking ten different languages trying to communicate. I makes it mind numbing to try and play through a single match. Even if you somehow get a stable game, there isn't any story involved and the balance in the game could use a bit of work.
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#42 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
[QUOTE="lettuceman44"] Why would you pirate a crap game? Also, that is your opinion. The only problems with the game are internet connectivity imo.

My opinion? Hey, if you like communciation problems, high latency, an hour long matchmaking process, and unstable gameplay then have it Demigod all you want.
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lettuceman44

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#43 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="lettuceman44"] Smart mouth much? Yea, cause that really is part of the gameplay..... hey, you know why there is matchmaking problems? Oh yea, maybe because it was pirated eh?

I fail to see what pirating has to do with matchmaking problems. They put out this product in an incomplete state with a total lack of regionalization which has many fights with latency in the 900s, and people speaking ten different languages trying to communicate. I makes it mind numbing to try and play through a single match. Even if you somehow get a stable game, there isn't any story involved and the balance in the game could use a bit of work.

How about the fact they only prepared for such an amount whom they thought would buy the game, and then end up with having 100,000 pirated copies to contend with, and the fact that GS released it early so they had to release early as well.
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#44 Ek-Andy
Member since 2006 • 1930 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Then don't purchase it. What's your point here, piracy is OK? As this video pretty clearly shows, it is just hurting even the most die-hard anti DRM PC developers.Shafftehr
I'm saying that you can't necessarily blame the pirates for the game selling poorly. There is more to this than just; Pirates booo, developers yaaay. PC Gamers won't purchase half efforts.

He's not blaming pirates for bad sales, he's blaming pirates for essentially ruining the online experience for the paying customers - which is *entirely* true. Sorry, but this "pirates booo" because they're not doing any good - and you only say "developers yayyy" if you buy the game. Doing what was done here is just taking a big wet steaming dump on a developer that has a development model that many here (yourself included) claim to care about. Why the heck WOULDN'T you say "pirates boooo" in this case? Or let me guess, you were somewhere in that six figure number they've been quoting there Vandal. The sad fact which you're so deftly avoiding that stealing games, playing them online, and ruining it for paying customers is just a trashy thing to do. If they really didn't think the game was worth buying, why the heck are they online playing it? Sadly enough, this case just goes to show that extensive security measure make sense because PC gamers are so ready to justify piracy ta the drop of a hat - even when it is extremely hurtful to a developer who is trying very hard to keep some corner of PC gaming DRM free.

This is true, but I wouldn't use the term stealing because it's inaccurate. Piracy is illegal copying and distribution as opposed to actually stealing. You can even buy a product and then pirate it.

Though really there is no defense for illegally downloading games. People seem to have a hard time accepting that just because you can get away with something that dosn't make it acceptable. Essentially what pirates and people illegally downloading games, or even music or film, are doing is driving those industries towards their own destruction. They are denying profit to those who worked so hard to earn it. They think everything should be for free because it can be made to be so. It sickens me to think that people believe what they are doing is socially acceptable under particular circumstances. The worst are the ones that try and defend what they are doing, "But I can't afford it!", "I just want to try it!", yeah that's nice and all, but you know what? That's completely against the law regardless and it's not even a good defense. It's like going into a super market, opening a packet of crisps because you can't afford them or you just want to try them. If a game is bad then that's that. It's simple, you want a game, you buy it, you think a game will be crap, you don't. That way we can atleast keep our own hobby intact instead of the sorry state it could be in in a few years . If only there was some definitive way to stop piracy for good, and I don't care how extreme. As far as I'm concerned people deserve what would come to them.

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lettuceman44

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#45 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="lettuceman44"] Why would you pirate a crap game? Also, that is your opinion. The only problems with the game are internet connectivity imo.

My opinion? Hey, if you like communciation problems, high latency, an hour long matchmaking process, and unstable gameplay then have it Demigod all you want.

Fine by me. I'll keep it. Those problems won't last forever. Stardock has good support.
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#46 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
How about the fact they only prepared for such an amount whom they thought would buy the game, and then end up with having 100,000 pirated copies to contend with, and the fact that GS released it early so they had to release early as well.lettuceman44
Then they didn't give us enough servers. They shipped the game with a total lack of preparedness. I mean you make it sound as if it is justified to have a lack of foresight to how many people were playing the game. Would it be any more justified if all those people had purchased the game and we still had these latency issues? Besides, to play online you need to validate your CD Key.
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#47 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Shafftehr"] Oh come on... They insulted you? As in, some press release said something you didn't like so... What? That makes 100,000 thefts before the game is even released, ruining the bloody game for paying customers, just fine and dandy? You are working *so hard* to make it seem like that the pirates are doing here is just fine, in fact that THEY are the victims. Maybe I should get the PC gaming community a big bloody hanky and call your mommies because you were so callously insulted by Gas Power Games... TO ARMS! They must be destroyed, no means too drastic! The legal means any gaming consumer has of snubbing a developer like this is not buying the game. Let's just pretend for a second that all of these pirates really didn't think the game was good and wouldn't have bought it... So what are they doing playing it? This is inconsiderate to the developers, to the paying customers, and just disrespectful nonsense since you're claiming they just didn't think the game was that good anyways. Vandal, you're working overtime to say stealing is just fine and bloody dandy. Get a clue.

Of course they insulted us. They said that PC gamers don't buy unique games and that we are all evil pirates...in no plain language. Gas Powered Games, in trying to find a scapegoat for going to consoles, said they didn't want to make any more PC games, then turn around and put out this abomination with Stardock to try and capitalize on the street cred that Stardock has. I'm not saying what pirates are doing is find and dandy, but I'm apathetic about another person's enjoyment of the game. You're not going to make me want to sit through a peice of crap game just so I can allow some other person to passively enjoy it. Sorry, but I'm not a masochist. You seem to think that I am justifying the use of piracy as a determent. Hardly, I personally bought the flipping game. I'm merely showing you that there are more people to blame here than just the pirates. You want to blame someone? Blame Gas Powered for failing to localize the game, having players connect with people in Russia through a one hour process, lack of any backstory, and gameplay which gets boring after a few play throughs. I'm not saying stealing is fine. I'm saying that you have to blame the developer too.

Well, I think you have bad hygiene. Should I lock up my car-keys? Apparently theft is a perfectly fine response to an insult - because *I* would deserve it! Go figure, a guy who really doesn't give a rat's arse about other people being able to play and enjoy a game is supporting piracy. A PC gamer, no less, where a *huge* portion of the released games are improved by community involvement - clans, mod communities, or just simple guys who enjoy dropping for games making for opponents for good fun online play. Go figure, your apathy is hurtful to PC gaming - I'm just glad in some of the circles I hang around with, Civfanatics and such, there aren't many apathetic PC gamers around because that would be a silver bullet to thriving, productive communities that make games better for everyone by collectively caring about each others' experiences. THAT is what makes PC gaming great. I'm sorry, however you want to spin-doctor it, the people who steal are the ones guilty of theft. The fact that they're screwing other gamers and Stardock & friends in doing so just shows incredible selfishness that is hurtful to the PC gaming community, and the PC gaming developer who have the interest of the community in mind. The only thing that this developer should be blamed for is thinking that a reasonable number of gamers who didn't like the game wouldn't buy the game. As he said in that video, you can't talk to pirates though - they've already rationalized their theft and really don't give a rats' arse who or what it hurts. He's talking about you.
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#48 Ek-Andy
Member since 2006 • 1930 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="lettuceman44"] Smart mouth much? Yea, cause that really is part of the gameplay..... hey, you know why there is matchmaking problems? Oh yea, maybe because it was pirated eh?lettuceman44
I fail to see what pirating has to do with matchmaking problems. They put out this product in an incomplete state with a total lack of regionalization which has many fights with latency in the 900s, and people speaking ten different languages trying to communicate. I makes it mind numbing to try and play through a single match. Even if you somehow get a stable game, there isn't any story involved and the balance in the game could use a bit of work.

How about the fact they only prepared for such an amount whom they thought would buy the game, and then end up with having 100,000 pirated copies to contend with, and the fact that GS released it early so they had to release early as well.

I presume this is a mainly multiplayer game aswell? 120,000 in a short period of time is alot of strain on a server for a multiplayer game.

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lettuceman44

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#49 lettuceman44
Member since 2005 • 7971 Posts

[QUOTE="lettuceman44"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] I fail to see what pirating has to do with matchmaking problems. They put out this product in an incomplete state with a total lack of regionalization which has many fights with latency in the 900s, and people speaking ten different languages trying to communicate. I makes it mind numbing to try and play through a single match. Even if you somehow get a stable game, there isn't any story involved and the balance in the game could use a bit of work.Ek-Andy

How about the fact they only prepared for such an amount whom they thought would buy the game, and then end up with having 100,000 pirated copies to contend with, and the fact that GS released it early so they had to release early as well.

I presume this is a mainly multiplayer game aswell? 120,00 in a short period of time is alot of strain on a server for a multiplayer game.

Yes, pretty much multiplayer only.
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#50 Shafftehr
Member since 2008 • 2889 Posts
[QUOTE="lettuceman44"]How about the fact they only prepared for such an amount whom they thought would buy the game, and then end up with having 100,000 pirated copies to contend with, and the fact that GS released it early so they had to release early as well.Vandalvideo
Then they didn't give us enough servers. They shipped the game with a total lack of preparedness. I mean you make it sound as if it is justified to have a lack of foresight to how many people were playing the game. Would it be any more justified if all those people had purchased the game and we still had these latency issues? Besides, to play online you need to validate your CD Key.

This coming from the guy saying that people pirate the game because they don't want to buy it? People who don't want to buy the game really shouldn't be playing the game. That's the way, you know, ownership is supposed to relate to theft. Maybe, just maybe, they put money into servers that reflected the number of copies people bought... But sorry - they're to blame because they didn't make server capacity for 10 people for every 1 customer who actually invested in the game. Sorry, pirates are off the hook - it's the evil developer! You know, the ones who so viciously insulted you PC gamers, and thus deserve to be stolen from. Oddly enough, you're giving very strong arguments for PC gaming to be DRM'd up the wazoo, until you guys can't tweak a texture without Big Brother's OK.