My fellow gamers, we've lost sight of what matters(or we're blinded)

I think I can speak for the vast majority of us. We're being miseld with all the 4K mumbo jumbo! 4K looks extremely nice. As an owner of a pretty good 4K TV and a 1080 Ti powered gaming rig, I can vouch for that.

However, that does not mean anything below is unacceptable. I gamed in 3200x1800 or 1800p and it still looks very good. Even 1440p looks good on a high quality TV. Don't be suckered into throwing money and thinking consoles are worthless because they're incapable of achieving true 4K. They aren't worthless and the X1X will be worth every penny. Your 4K TV will be put to good use with that console. Even the PS4 Pro delivers more than adequate visuals at 4K(when it supports it).

We should have demanded 60fps from the get go. Instead we got caught into a bickering war last gen about resolutions and graphics when they have no direct impact on the gameplay. We're reaping what we sowed a decade ago. Yes, nicer graphics, Ultra/4K/60fps look nice but unless you're an enthusiast willing to burn thousands of dollars on a rig, you shouldn't chase that.

For us enthusiasts this is a hobby, this is not just about the games but I suspect for most of you it is just about the games. Please for the sake of the future of our children, demand 60fps, stable frame rates, low frame times and steady gameplay. Let's stop hunting the elusive 4K and Mega Extreme Hyper Quality settings.

Who is with me? For 60fps. For our children. Chaaaaaaaarge!!!!!!

That is all. Thank you for listening.

1080p/30fps with great image quality is also good enough for me. I'll do 4K when the next xbox, and ps5 release

Totally agreed!

60fps is the shit <3

stable frame rates, low frame times and steady gameplay.

30fps is acceptable if it is locked at 30fps and the frame times are low and perfectly even. The problem is developers often will allow the games to drop at 25 and have terrible hiccups to prioritize the visuals. I do believe 60fps is a lot better than 30fps but if you're used to 30fps and aren't interested in 60fps, I won't act like it is unplayable. It is very undesirable for me but if I have to cope with it, I want it to be perfect. Devs don't care about that these days. It seems the frame rate is one of the first thing they sacrifice when it should be at the top of the list of priorities.

The main problem is, Phil Spencer was right all along, console gamers just don't give a damn on 60fps! Never did and never will, they were all over this high resolution and now, were paying the price because of 4K demanding then 60fps. This is the results from console gamers alone.

Hmm the way I see it this resolution stuff is just what MS is advertising so we are talking about it.

And Sony was advertising that before. They do what they think t he public wants and since the start of the gen, fanboys have been at war over 900p/1080p. It actually started last gen. As a result, we got garbage-tier CPU's in these consoles.

@Juub1990:

60 FPS fanatics are destroying the gaming industry with their zealotry.

Or just play on PC where 60 FPS is easily attainable and supported by almost all devs? :P

You're right actually in that we were talking a lot about consoles not even achieving 1080p the last couple years. And I think you are right that resolution is not a big deal. If MS and Sony interpreted our bickering as such, then I think they misunderstood. It was more about the increasing gap between the capabilities of consoles and PC gaming. Consoles used to look impressive at points compared to PC gaming. And that table has turned, significantly enough for consoles to feel pretty dated at release. And that gap is not closed by the PS4 Pro and XB1X entirely.

For core gamers that's an event, right? Like MS putting XB1 games on PC now, that's a newsworthy change. But it's not that important in the grand scheme of things. I think because people starting talking about it a lot on forums like this, it became this trophy in the system wars. I hope people are not actually thinking that these higher resolutions are setting the world on fire. It's just a nice improvement, like going from 60 to 120hz. Or better voice actors. Or better art style.

Case in point, I ordered a Mini Classic SNES and I don't even know what resolution those games are running at and quite frankly that didn't even cross my mind. At the same time I'm looking for a higher res monitor, cause it would be nice to have.

Console gaming is an exercise in making compromises.

Hopefully all this frame rate talk will at least lead to users getting a choice.

As someone who gamed on CRTs for like 18 years, 1080p still amazes me.

Well strictly talking about the X1X it can do both 4K/60fps. And if it doesn't that's entirely up to the dev, which is a good idea, you don't want to turn devs away from your console by mandating 60fps or 4K. Hell look at most of the 1st party games on OG X1, most are 1080p 60fps.

Ive been enjoying my 5K monitor. I dont think i can go back to 4K. And i heard GoT will be in 6K. Cant wait to see that marvel. 6K TVs are right around the corner. Im hoping can buy one next year for good price.

Im just now at the point in my life where I am considering upgrading to 4k. I have a wiiu and ps4 right now. My next console is def the switch, but if I get a 4k tv then I will keep the standard ps4 and get an Xbobx X

This. No point in pushing 4K if the gameplay is crap. PC gamers get the best of both worlds but I'll take gameplay>graphics any day.

2560x1080 for the past years and for the forseeable future.

4K TVs,the PC hardware required and 4K 21:9 monitors are too expensive at the moment. I don't mind waiting a few years.

I wish the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro game developers would give the option of 30@ high resolutions and 60@1080 or higher resolutions. I know some have done this on the Pro, but I wished ALL games had these options.

there is no point in going for resolution over frame-rate in games because the only time you'll see the complete pixel count on screen is when the camera isn't moving. That's why 24fps works in a passive and controlled environment like movies but it doesn't work as well in an interactive medium like video games where the camera is in constant motion.

And to make matters worse, as 3D games become more and more detailed trying to focus on your surroundings and exploring and stuff at low frame-rate becomes so much more difficult. I had this realization when I started playing Witcher 3 on PS4. I dropped that shit after like 3 hours of play because the blur and judder was killing my eyes. Another game that gave me huge issues was Gravity Rush 2. I loved the first game but my enjoyment of the sequel was greatly hampered due to the lower frame-rate making everything much harder to see in a game with fast paced combat and missions that required looking for stuff in a heavily detailed world.

But then you go back to a game like Mario 64 or Zelda Oot on N64, both 3D and run at like 20 fps, but due to the bright colors and basic geometry the low frame-rate doesn't bothers me as much since I don't have to focus my sight as much to differentiate the little details. Then there's the Crash Bandicoot Trilogy, 60fps would have been better for the platforming and more responsive controls, but 30fps was alright because the camera is almost always in a 2D plane and you don't have to explore or quick-scope anybody.

Falling for the 4k meme is a mistake. People really should be asking for the PS5 to be able to play open-world-like games at least 60fps too. I'd ask for higher but most TV's, even the ones that claim to be 120hz, are also 60fps. The 120hz is 99% of time just some kind of interpolation process to fake the higher frame-rate experience at the cost of lag.

I would be more willing to tolerate lower framerates if the game pushed its interactivity n new and unique ways ala some of the stuff done by Breath of the Wild. Because I can accept that with the nature of these consoles that some more advanced stuff to be pushed, a studio might need to give up framerate. I accept that, but when it's the same shit I get every other time, I'm less lenient about it.

It be nice if both the Pro and X1X had the option for their upgraded version to either improve the visuals or improve performance. Just a quick option would be nice, otherwise I stick to PC gaming at this point.

I'm all for framerate - I really am - but if a game wants to be ambitious in the kind of gameplay that it pushes, and take a hit to its framerate, I will gladly accept that. Like, if BotW had been a smaller, less interactive world, but at 60fps, it would be a lesser game than it is now.

EDIT: Basically this

Native display resolution + 60FPS should be the standard.

You'll be somewhat disappointed by its current implementation

It would be nice if devs allowed a choice between 4k/30fps or maybe 1440p/60fps (or similar res). Give people the option.

In most cases, when it comes to console development, developers just don't have time to fiddle with settings of choices when there on a timeline due date. Yes I agree with you, give console gamers more options but at the same time, I assume developers knows by now if you really want 1440p/60fps or 144hz options graphics, they know you can get all of this if you go PC gaming route to suit your needs.

60fps is very important to me, if it's just console exclusive that has 30fps locked, I'm totally fine with it but for now, 60fps is the only way to get it is by going PC route.

With all the hype over 4K, the other graphical assets are often overlooked. It should be about resolution AND settings. 1080p looks amazing when paired with high textures, details, water effects, foliage, particles, and so forth. That's not to say resolution doesn't matter at all, too low and all the fidelity in the assets gets lost. I'm pretty sure most would agree 1080 is the min threshold for good picture clarity. Of course if you can run a game well in 1440 or 4K, more power to you.

I'd rather game in optimal 1080 with better performance than 4K with sub-optimal settings of Med or lower and questionable performance.

And on that note I very much agree that frame rate is the far more valuable quantifier over graphics, so long as you don't have to sacrifice too much visual fidelity to get the performance.

@Juub1990:

1080p and 30 fps at least.

you didn't have very good crt screens then, my 22 inch electron blue lacie supported 2048 x 1536 already back in the early 2000's.

60fps is nice, and looks great, but I'm fine if a game looks good and is fun to play.

We should be asking for over 100fps.

144Hz master race

This is what I have been preaching since forever. 60fps needs to become the minimum standard. Shit frame rates do not help games at all. 30fps ruins immersion, adds input lag, judder, blur, and just doesn't feel good. A game can have scaled back graphics to maintain a constant 60fps while still having great design and art direction.

The push for impressive graphics isn't even the biggest problem. These newer consoles are capable of some pretty impressive graphics, but the shit CPUs in them bottleneck the system and prevent 60fps in many situations. They really need to start designing balanced hardware for these consoles.

4k is sweet but way over emphasized at this point. 1440p doin60fps is fn stellar dont think its not. For 4k youre probably sacrificing something to achieve it

For lesser GPU hardware, I rather see some super sample AA (DSR) + checkerboard over pure 1920x1080p render. There's pros and cons with pure 1920x1080p resolution.

X1X supports FreeSync and HDMI 2.1's adaptive sync, but it needs new HDMI 2.1 HDTVs with adaptive sync support.

1080p/60Hz/Ultra is better than 4k/30Hz/Low to Mid. So tired of games sacrificing FPS and fidelity for raw resolution.

Meh, jut give me a fun game to play and i'll be fine. Leave the p's and frames for people to talk about on forums :)

it just needs to look nice. Numbers don;t matter. is the image clear? Cool!!

@i_p_daily: Frame rate impacts the gameplay. Fun and frame rates/graphics are not mutually exclusive.

C'mon, 6k is soooo yesterday. It's all about 8k now bro.

I honestly do not understand how you console gamers can play any shooter below 60fps. Even 60fps is slow for a shooter which needs to be played at the very least 80fps on a high refresh rate monitor. Although 4K is very incredible, I would personally take frame rate and panel type ie. IPS or OLED over resolution.

I know I own Just Cause 3 with over 300hrs on it, but I can still have fun even when the game drops frames, did it bother me to begin with, sure but it's not the end of the world.

I also have a shit ton of hours of Forza Horizon 3, the game is soooooo much fun and only 30fps.

PC guys make way too much of a deal over this sort of stuff, I just enjoy my games. I can't even tell you what resolution or how many fps 99% of the games I play are running at, the only time I see that stuff is when muppets put DF videos on SW.

Depends on the game but there isn't a time when 60fps is worse than 30fps.

Right, but that's like a zero sum game. Where apparently those of us who want 60 faps, apparently don't have fun. I value 60 frames in my games, but my favorite game of this year is probably going to be Breath of the Wild, and I played that game at framerates well below 30. I love me some Demon's Souls n Dark Souls, and yeah I would argue Shadow of the Colossus is a classic. I still go back and play stuff like Mario 64, the not PC emulated at 60 frames version.

But, games flat out play way better at better performance. It significantly impacts response times, and it would be nice if these upgraded consoles for instance were willing to also have a performance option. Go for the spicy ass 4k visuals, or maybe stick to 1080p or *gasp* a resolution lower than that for better performance.

Otherwise having played a lot of my games these days at 60 frames, I can easily notice when I'm playing or watching something that's running at a lower framerate.

I agree completely. 4K is amazing, but not absolutely necessary. You don't need 4K to enjoy a game, but its nice to have.

This gen should have been 720p 60fps across the board unless the dev's could actually get 1080p 60fps to work and be steady through the whole game.