NATAL = 100ms of lag

Natal needs to be lagfree..What's the point otherwise?

Lto_thaG

Why don't you guys wait for games before making judgement? I swear this is pathetic

Why do people keep whining like this is supposed to replace the controller... it does have other potential uses.

Why don't you guys wait for games before making judgement? I swear this is pathetic

spinecaton

I agree. Some people have been against this from the start for no real reason other than that it COULD fail.

Natal needs to be lagfree..What's the point otherwise?

[QUOTE="spinecaton"]

Why don't you guys wait for games before making judgement? I swear this is pathetic

Leejjohno

I agree. Some people have been against this from the start for no real reason other than that it COULD fail.

i dont get it either.

[QUOTE="rolo107"][QUOTE="Lto_thaG"]

Natal needs to be lagfree..What's the point otherwise?

Jamex1987

As a control scheme, Natal doesn't seem very suited to twitch games anyway.

[QUOTE="shoryuken_"]

100ms isn't bad, but they could do better. They should do their best to increase the speed of it, it will make the experience that much more seamless and immersive.

lazzordude

indeed, 100ms is still very much playbable. however if they could get it down to 60-75, that would be great.

natal may end up on the ps3 where the processor is 1000x faster :D. lag free baby iwasgood2u

[QUOTE="iwasgood2u"]natal may end up on the ps3 where the processor is 1000x faster :D. lag free baby dog_dirt

[QUOTE="dog_dirt"][QUOTE="iwasgood2u"]natal may end up on the ps3 where the processor is 1000x faster :D. lag free baby iwasgood2u

[QUOTE="iwasgood2u"][QUOTE="dog_dirt"] its not a 1000x faster. i think you will find its 100000x times faster. check you fact before you postdog_dirt

PS3 fanboy posting news that he/she perceives to be negative about 360? Whats new? :roll:navyguy21

Wow, I can't believe how bad these statements are getting for a 1/10th of a second lag :lol: . You guys realize that's close to what an average connection will have on an online game, right? moose_knuckler

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

ktrotter11

[QUOTE="navyguy21"][QUOTE="dream431ca"]

Natal is pretty much useless until MS fixes it.

The chip, which was responsible for processing information for the Natal's 'bone system,' has been removed in favour of a software solution.

However, development sources have indicated to GamesIndustry.biz that the change doesn't have an effect on the existing system lag of about 100ms, while a software solution should enable Microsoft to update the system more quickly and regularly than a hardware solution, meanwhile hitting a previously-speculated price point of sub-USD 50/GBP 50 - although this price rumour has already been scotched by Microsoft's Neil Thompson.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-drops-internal-natal-chip_1

dream431ca

That is not negative? 100ms is a lot for motion control.

Yeah, because Natal is a more difficult technology, by far.

Just look at it this way: controller free gaming. There, nothing to pick up on but actual movement, this isn't infrared by the Wii or light transmitions from a little pink globe.

Keep arguing though, motion sensing is a stupid concept on all fronts, but whatever makes you feel that your inanimate object is being threatened by another.

natal may end up on the ps3 where the processor is 1000x faster :D. lag free baby iwasgood2u

Oh, do you mean that discontinued processor that IBM left out to dry, you're right. Enjoy your 8-core next gen, that's what everyone else will have:)

It doesn't need to be any lower... 360 wireless controller is 66ms of lag so 34ms more is only noticeable if you move your arms in an accelerated rate, purposely trying to exploit its short comings. Natal is still a year away and what we've seen so far of it(Half-Life 2 using Natal), it looks pretty solid and a decent upgrade from Wii's motion. Natal is almost a year away, its inevitable that there will be improvements. Vadamee

If I'm not misinterpretting the article they indicate that the demo they played was likely Natal running on a PC, and one should note this is a fairly simple (and probably not particularly processor intensive) minigame, since Natal will now rely on the the 360's processing power.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

[QUOTE="AdmiralBison"]

yeah, Cows wish.

Motion control is here to stay.

it should be obvious by now.

AdmiralBison

Microsoft are not going to drop it based on such lag.

The technology can always be improved upon.

No, they are against Natal, naturally.

Microsoft's Project Natal is the bigger story good or bad. How many people actually even care about the "Wand" there is hardly many threads of discussion on it here compared to Project Natal.

Oh, I'm not saying they should drop it, I'm just saying the lag is bad.

Natal is pretty much useless until MS fixes it.

The chip, which was responsible for processing information for the Natal's 'bone system,' has been removed in favour of a software solution.

However, development sources have indicated to GamesIndustry.biz that the change doesn't have an effect on the existing system lag of about 100ms, while a software solution should enable Microsoft to update the system more quickly and regularly than a hardware solution, meanwhile hitting a previously-speculated price point of sub-USD 50/GBP 50 - although this price rumour has already been scotched by Microsoft's Neil Thompson.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-drops-internal-natal-chip_1

dream431ca

It doesn't need to be any lower... 360 wireless controller is 66ms of lag so 34ms more is only noticeable if you move your arms in an accelerated rate, purposely trying to exploit its short comings. Natal is still a year away and what we've seen so far of it(Half-Life 2 using Natal), it looks pretty solid and a decent upgrade from Wii's motion. Natal is almost a year away, its inevitable that there will be improvements. [QUOTE="ktrotter11"][QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

Vadamee

100ms is not bad. I play with 150-200ms constantly online and I compete fine, although when it goes over 150 I notice it.

Espada12

QUOTE="DJ_Headshot"]

100ms is not bad. I play with 150-200ms constantly online and I compete fine, although when it goes over 150 I notice it.

Espada12

Honestly if they managed to cut it by 25 - 50ms it would be really good. 100 ms isnt that bad considering it has almost a year of dev time left.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

ktrotter11

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

jonesy1911

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

Sully28

[QUOTE="Sully28"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

WilliamRLBaker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Motion_Controller

The PlayStationMotion Controller[1] (tentative name[2][fn 1]) is a motion-sensing game controller in development for the PlayStation 3 video game console by Sony Computer Entertainment. Consisting of a handheld wand, the controller uses the PlayStation Eye webcam to track the wand's position, and inertial sensors to detect its motion. It was revealed at Sony's E3 2009 press conference on June 2, 2009, with a live demonstration using an engineering prototype.[13] The PlayStation Motion Controller is slated for a Spring 2010 release.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Eye

The PlayStation Eye (trademarked PLAYSTATION Eye) is a webcam device by Sony Computer Entertainment for the PlayStation 3 video game console. It is the successor to the EyeToy for the PlayStation 2.

The peripheral was launched in a bundle with The Eye of Judgment in the United States on October 23, 2007,[2] in Japan and Australia on October 25, 2007[3][4] and in Europe on October 26, 2007.[5][6]

The PlayStation Eye was also released as a retro product in United States,[7] Europe,[5] and Australia.[8] EyeToy designer Richard Marks stated that the EyeToy was used as a model for the rough cost design.[9]

then we have the fact the psEYE *sorry its not an eyetoy its the psEYE* has no internal processor that i know of...so claiming it has no lag...is wrong.

[QUOTE="Lto_thaG"] It's not going to be lagfree, it needs to actually detect and process your movements while basically syncing them up with onscreen movements... at least, that's what I assume. I'm sure 100ms isn't something that the engineers at MS decided on, it's probably an unfortunate side-effect of the technology.Brownesque

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

thats about the lag we see with eye toy games...which will likely be what we see with the wands since they use the eye toy camera.

you dont have much here, as much as i dislike natal now with its removal of the processor you still have nothing on the sony side which is the side your fighting for.

Sony's so called "wand" is lag free. 1-1 ratio. Don't believe me, watch the demonstrations.

I really hope MS is able to fix it, otherwise no one will use Natal for anything other than casual games.

100ms is not noticable.... sSubZerOo

are you kidding me? i game on my PC from 40-100ms depending on servers and it does not impair my ability to frag whatsoever :). talk about a petty complaint.

3picuri3

No, it is a very big deal. You are comparing online gaming latency to input delay and they are hugely different. Most modern online games have lag compensation. When you pull the trigger in an FPS, you see and hear your gun fire in an instant--exactly where you were pointing it since the action is client side. In old games (think Quake2 and earlier), the client would be synced to the server so if you had a 150m/s ping, you had 150m/s of input lag. You had to lead your target to compensate for latency. If natal shipped with latency, you will have to learn not only to compensate for the terrible image post-processing display lag on most HDTVs, but also input lag from your controls. I really don't want to go back to the dialup days of leading my targets by 150m/s.

100ms is not noticable.... sSubZerOo

Yes it is. If a scene from a movie were being output on two screens, one display lagless, and another with 100m/s, you would clearly see one is running behind the other. If you were looking for it, you would even notice sound syncing issues.

[QUOTE="rolo107"] 1/10th of a second is noticeable?3picuri3

What? Reaction time and perception are not synonymous. We perceive in a constant state, not in periodic samples. So yes, one tenth of a second is noticeable. Whether it's noticeable to the point of detraction is another matter.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="rolo107"] 1/10th of a second is noticeable?asylumni

What? Reaction time and perception are not synonymous. We perceive in a constant state, not in periodic samples. So yes, one tenth of a second is noticeable. Whether it's noticeable to the point of detraction is another matter.

It certainly can be. I typically play my fighters on a LCD monitor with ~5m/s delay. If I switch over to my HDTV with ~60m/s of lag, I will drop tons of combos, can't block certain overheads, and will be late on anti-airs. On the LCD, I may have 200m/s to react to an overhead and block high. On the HDTV I have to do it 60m/s earlier which is barely possible with out anticiatpion. If my controls had 100m/s of lag, I would have to guess.

Cows blowing this way out of proportion,again. :roll:

The thing is that the "lag" is almost unoticable when playing.

Besides many top developers have confirmed they are "actively working" on new games for Natal.Thats in addition to MS hiring new deveopers in order to fufil their plan of "shifting development of Natal games into high-gear".

E3 will confirm this.

GabeNewellsPie

You're gonna sit here and tell me

Natal lag

sayonara89

That isn't bad lag?

Cows blowing this way out of proportion,again. :roll:

The thing is that the "lag" is almost unoticable when playing.

Besides many top developers have confirmed they are "actively working" on new games for Natal.Thats in addition to MS hiring new deveopers in order to fufil their plan of "shifting development of Natal games into high-gear".

You see all this whining by butt-hurt PS fanboys will evaporate when the awesomeness is unleashed later this year.

E3 will confirm this.

GabeNewellsPie

Yikes, add 100ms for a online FPS and your north of 200, where most of your shots will not register correctly.Ringx55