New Forza 4 Trailer Looks Better Than Gran Turismo 5

looks like the same plastic cars from the last forza

sillaris

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

The Forza laptimes was even faster than that.:lol: Were you really trying to counter my theory?

And looking at the average laptimes GT was 0.18 slower than real Life

Forza was 2.62 seconds faster.

Why were you ignoring / forgetting that? Your counter point failed

marklarmer

not only are you cherry-picking one article to support your theory, but then you're cherry-picking only the discrepancies that Forza 3 has with just the average lap times. Oh yeah and then from that you're declaring that Forza 3 has a 'gaping weakness' completely ignoring the fact the fastest times set around Lacuna Seca show GT5 has an equally 'gaping weakness' if anything, then you seem to be implying GT5 is a better sim in some meaningful way because of it.

You said earlier "so its important to me that cars should behave like they do in real life." Seeing asthough GT5 is 3 seconds faster than the real life record (almost exactly the same time as Forza 3) with the guy playing the game just doing a 'safe and average lap' i don't see how you can be defending GT5 when you're being so critical of Forza 3, especially seeing asthough both have far more in common with each other than they do with real life driving. The more you try to emphasize the importance of realism the worse BOTH games will seem in comparison, hence why most reviews focus on the way games look and play, rather than how they feel and compare to real life, because its pointless, especially when you're playing with a controller with little sticks on it.

One Article. I chose that article because It referenced my own Findings. Is there ANYONE on this forum that watches best Motoring? They have professional drivers (The drivers are the premier racers of the various Japanese racing series, including JGTC (now Super GT), the D1 Grand Prix, and Formula Nippon). They usually have a monthly Videos with they race cars on Tsukuba. The Laguna Seca track time was run by road&track. To my knowledge I don't know of them running that track as near the frequency of Best Motoring on that Tsukuba . Not this (Tsukuba Lap times (268) Vs Laguna SecaLap times (47))
Looking at the top times at Tsukuba 90% of those times from from Best motoring Tests. I didn't want to say 100% because in some those put the drivers name and I'm abit lazy to google to see if they really are from Best Motoring. Now looking at the Laguna Seca Track 4 of the 47 laptimes are from R&T.

I think we can easily see from facts here. The Best Motoring times are times that should be just about the best the car car do, I wouldn't dismiss the R&T results, All I am saying is that the Best Motoring numbers are something I'd vouch for. I've been watch Best Motoring for YEARS. I trust them.

It's the reason I LOVE Tsukuba. Its almost like I'm in their show. Now on to the LazyGamer numbers

They Could have been 10 seconds off. But isn't the closer to the real life time the winner? If we had a Drag race Head to head, And with the same reaction time and my E.T is 0.001 quicker than yours, Am I not the Winner? ANswer? YES I AM

Just like the old saying close but no cigar, THERE is a winner here. GT5 was closer on the Fastest laps and Average laps in BOTH tests.

Also, You seem to not even look at the Tsukuba Lap. Am not Surprized seeing that I've run 1:01 in a GTR 34 in Forza.

Point? THE GT5 laptimes were close every TEST

Just like when I've tested this

THERE is a winner here. GT5 was closer on the Fastest laps and Average laps in BOTH tests.

Blinblingthing

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

That's nice. :)

I still prefer Forza. GT5's physics may be slightly better but Forza has a better game built around those excellent physics. Considering that Turn 10 never rests on its laurels, I imagine Forza 4's physics will be just as good, if not better, than GT5's so I can't wait for that either. :D

The_Game21x

WOW. It took you so long to just be HONEST enough to say that.
I was wondering if you really wanted me to do those races, see, I still will, But if you've played the two, You can be honest enough to admit GT5 does better physics. I agree with you there and That's why I chose it.

I've always said that. :| Hell, go read the review I wrote on GT5 a couple months ago where I say pretty much the same thing. Considering Polyphony Digital had a year of extra development time over Forza 3, I'd expect nothing less.

My main point of contention was with that picture you keep posting and the comparison, which is not, in any way, objective proof of GT5's superiority in terms of physics.

Forget lazygamer.As long as we both agree GT5 has better physics, Hence more accurate laptimes

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

THERE is a winner here. GT5 was closer on the Fastest laps and Average laps in BOTH tests.

marklarmer

Don't Worry, Over the course of time. I WILL DO my OWN TEST. and POST the result here. WILL use ABS on Setting 1 and 10. So we'll have Three laptimes. Two from GT5 and One from Forza 3. Again, you'll see that the Forza times aren't as close as the GT5 times

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

THERE is a winner here. GT5 was closer on the Fastest laps and Average laps in BOTH tests.

Blinblingthing

Don't Worry, Over the course of time. I WILL DO my OWN TEST. and POST the result here. WILL use ABS on Setting 1 and 10. So we'll have Three laptimes. Two from GT5 and One from Forza 3. Again, you'll see that the Forza times aren't as close as the GT5 times

GT had its time to shine last gen but now it really needs to move over. The latest title proved the devs are not changing with the times but stuck on their past success. The crown for the best racing sim belongs to Turn 10 and Forza and I wouldn't at all be surprised if 4orza gets a 10.

Forza has been king for a long time already. The only holdouts left are the diehards who refuse to believe it.

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]what you mean testing 2 cars (conveniently premium ones in GT5 i might add) out of over 1000? :|........................:roll:

marklarmer

Don't Worry, Over the course of time. I WILL DO my OWN TEST. and POST the result here. WILL use ABS on Setting 1 and 10. So we'll have Three laptimes. Two from GT5 and One from Forza 3. Again, you'll see that the Forza times aren't as close as the GT5 times

Let's think physics for a second. Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive and 800 Hp.
Ummm, Why wouldn't it be easy to spin out a nascar :s

Just tap the rear of the car in a side ways direction. Should he be on full throttle he should SPin. But more than likely the AI won't be on fully throttle if he's not on the Straight. So, I'd imagine it would be hard

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Don't Worry, Over the course of time. I WILL DO my OWN TEST. and POST the result here. WILL use ABS on Setting 1 and 10. So we'll have Three laptimes. Two from GT5 and One from Forza 3. Again, you'll see that the Forza times aren't as close as the GT5 times

Blinblingthing

Let's think physics for a second. Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive and 800 Hp.
Ummm, Why wouldn't it be easy to spin out a nascar :s

Just tap the rear of the car in a side ways direction. Should he be on full throttle he should SPin. But more than likely the AI won't be on fully throttle if he's not on the Straight. So, I'd imagine it would be hard

Forza has been king for a long time already. The only holdouts left are the diehards who refuse to believe it.

jimmypsn

im sorry but no

[QUOTE="jimmypsn"]

Forza has been king for a long time already. The only holdouts left are the diehards who refuse to believe it.

im sorry but no

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]excellent, that way i'll have slightly more worthless information to ignore. well, as riveting as this is, i can't help but feel there's more to physics in a racing game than lap times...i thought i saw some other cars buzzing around when i was doing Nascar, funny thing was they seemed to be able to spin me with ease, yet it was almost impossible to do the same to them, but i guess thats not really important......

marklarmer

Let's think physics for a second. Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive and 800 Hp.
Ummm, Why wouldn't it be easy to spin out a nascar :s

Just tap the rear of the car in a side ways direction. Should he be on full throttle he should SPin. But more than likely the AI won't be on fully throttle if he's not on the Straight. So, I'd imagine it would be hard

They Don't budge ? Pretty strong statement
Are you going to correct it?

Have I played GT5? I'll upload various videos in time with the laptime stuff I told you about, So we'll see

[QUOTE="resevl4rlz"]

[QUOTE="jimmypsn"]

Forza has been king for a long time already. The only holdouts left are the diehards who refuse to believe it.

ocidax

im sorry but no

It's funny that in the GT5 review. Its scored lower than the averageCritic Score and User Score

In Forza 3 Their score is higher than theCritic Score and user score.

But anyways, I trust myself to make my own Opinions. You must be one of those guys that care what a Movie gets reviewed like

[QUOTE="ocidax"][QUOTE="resevl4rlz"]

im sorry but no

Blinblingthing

It's funny that in the GT5 review. Its scored lower than the averageCritic Score and User Score

In Forza 3 Their score is higher than theCritic Score and user score.

But anyways, I trust myself to make my own Opinions. You must be one of those guys that care what a Movie gets reviewed like

[QUOTE="ocidax"][QUOTE="resevl4rlz"]

im sorry but no

Blinblingthing

It's funny that in the GT5 review. Its scored lower than the averageCritic Score and User Score

In Forza 3 Their score is higher than theCritic Score and user score.

But anyways, I trust myself to make my own Opinions. You must be one of those guys that care what a Movie gets reviewed like

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

The Forza laptimes was even faster than that.:lol: Were you really trying to counter my theory?

And looking at the average laptimes GT was 0.18 slower than real Life

Forza was 2.62 seconds faster.

Why were you ignoring / forgetting that? Your counter point failed

Blinblingthing

not only are you cherry-picking one article to support your theory, but then you're cherry-picking only the discrepancies that Forza 3 has with just the average lap times. Oh yeah and then from that you're declaring that Forza 3 has a 'gaping weakness' completely ignoring the fact the fastest times set around Lacuna Seca show GT5 has an equally 'gaping weakness' if anything, then you seem to be implying GT5 is a better sim in some meaningful way because of it.

You said earlier "so its important to me that cars should behave like they do in real life." Seeing asthough GT5 is 3 seconds faster than the real life record (almost exactly the same time as Forza 3) with the guy playing the game just doing a 'safe and average lap' i don't see how you can be defending GT5 when you're being so critical of Forza 3, especially seeing asthough both have far more in common with each other than they do with real life driving. The more you try to emphasize the importance of realism the worse BOTH games will seem in comparison, hence why most reviews focus on the way games look and play, rather than how they feel and compare to real life, because its pointless, especially when you're playing with a controller with little sticks on it.

One Article. I chose that article because It referenced my own Findings. Is there ANYONE on this forum that watches best Motoring? They have professional drivers (The drivers are the premier racers of the various Japanese racing series, including JGTC (now Super GT), the D1 Grand Prix, and Formula Nippon). They usually have a monthly Videos with they race cars on Tsukuba. The Laguna Seca track time was run by road&track. To my knowledge I don't know of them running that track as near the frequency of Best Motoring on that Tsukuba . Not this (Tsukuba Lap times (268) Vs Laguna SecaLap times (47))
Looking at the top times at Tsukuba 90% of those times from from Best motoring Tests. I didn't want to say 100% because in some those put the drivers name and I'm abit lazy to google to see if they really are from Best Motoring. Now looking at the Laguna Seca Track 4 of the 47 laptimes are from R&T.

I think we can easily see from facts here. The Best Motoring times are times that should be just about the best the car car do, I wouldn't dismiss the R&T results, All I am saying is that the Best Motoring numbers are something I'd vouch for. I've been watch Best Motoring for YEARS. I trust them.

It's the reason I LOVE Tsukuba. Its almost like I'm in their show. Now on to the LazyGamer numbers

They Could have been 10 seconds off. But isn't the closer to the real life time the winner? If we had a Drag race Head to head, And with the same reaction time and my E.T is 0.001 quicker than yours, Am I not the Winner? ANswer? YES I AM

Just like the old saying close but no cigar, THERE is a winner here. GT5 was closer on the Fastest laps and Average laps in BOTH tests.

Also, You seem to not even look at the Tsukuba Lap. Am not Surprized seeing that I've run 1:01 in a GTR 34 in Forza.

Point? THE GT5 laptimes were close every TEST

Just like when I've tested this

I say again...and it's funny my comment has been looked over

How cana LT give any indicator the engine is off :|...That's absurd..Fanboys have to hold on so tight they are losing focus...there no way to quantify it so now it's a focus...:lol:

Why does it have to be the engine? Why cant it be the rendering of the track?OR now one car is the case example of the entire game..

It's funny....It's funny to hear about people talk about physics in simcades...I bet they havent touched the car in set up or have any idea what does what...

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

[QUOTE="ocidax"] im sorry but yes is a fact 9.5>>>>8.0ocidax

It's funny that in the GT5 review. Its scored lower than the averageCritic Score and User Score

In Forza 3 Their score is higher than theCritic Score and user score.

But anyways, I trust myself to make my own Opinions. You must be one of those guys that care what a Movie gets reviewed like

Umm, Who said it wasn't important.

I trust MYSELF to make mt own decisions. I wasn't speak for SW.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Jimmy.

I say again...and it's funny my comment has been looked over

How cana LT give any indicator the engine is off :|...That's absurd..Fanboys have to hold on so tight they are losing focus...there no way to quantify it so now it's a focus...:lol:

Why does it have to be the engine? Why cant it be the rendering of the track?OR now one car is the case example of the entire game..

It's funny....It's funny to hear about people talk about physics in simcades...I bet they havent touched the car in set up or have any idea what does what...

masiisam

Are you going to decode that?

playing gt5 has made me want to play gt4. Too bad my ps3 isnt BC :/

Forza overall is still rubbish tho... :D

[QUOTE="marklarmer"]

[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

Let's think physics for a second. Front Engine, Rear Wheel Drive and 800 Hp.
Ummm, Why wouldn't it be easy to spin out a nascar :s

Just tap the rear of the car in a side ways direction. Should he be on full throttle he should SPin. But more than likely the AI won't be on fully throttle if he's not on the Straight. So, I'd imagine it would be hard

Blinblingthing

They Don't budge ? Pretty strong statement
Are you going to correct it?

Have I played GT5? I'll upload various videos in time with the laptime stuff I told you about, So we'll see

Easilly btter

Developers only lately take advantage of 360 hardware, that is very complicated to optimize for, that is why Alan Wake, Halo Reach look so amazing and Crysis 2 best looking on consoles

With the coming Codename Kingdoms, Fable 4 with new Rage like engine, Alan Wake 2, Gears 3 and Forza 4 will top anything in the market visually

[QUOTE="masiisam"]

I say again...and it's funny my comment has been looked over

How cana LT give any indicator the engine is off :|...That's absurd..Fanboys have to hold on so tight they are losing focus...there no way to quantify it so now it's a focus...:lol:

Why does it have to be the engine? Why cant it be the rendering of the track?OR now one car is the case example of the entire game..

It's funny....It's funny to hear about people talk about physics in simcades...I bet they havent touched the car in set up or have any idea what does what...

Blinblingthing

Are you going to decode that?

Im shocked you got that.

Using your own words "Are you going to decode that?" is whatI see when you talk about anything relvant to set-up, car handling, and physics.

Let me give you a tip. If you want to talk about set-up's and physics. You should try to use the proper terminology in doing so. When you use the terms that you do. It makes it look like you have no idea what you are talking about and any point you have, simply gets lost.

Great Vid... am officially hyped for Forza4, cant wait to get my fav cars and tune/custom design them :)

Looks good, almost makes me want to purchase the 360 for it.

[QUOTE="TheKing012"]

are you joking?

this entire thread is a testament to the sad status that is Lemming mentality. it is amazing what lengths Xbox 360 fanboys will go to in order to not argue against a valid point, or admit that their system has major shortcomings.

but what else am i to expect from a group that has an apparent obsession with PS3 fanboys?

To own said PS3 fanboys in this thread?

Freakin phenom baby... AAAAE all the way. 8)

Though after this one, me think T10 shouldn't have another FM for about 3 -4 years - launch title for the new MS console :D and perhaps finish that PGR5 and launch it some time next year would be just peachy. :P

The only problem i had with Forza3 was the fact it was limited to 8 cars on track. 16 cars, head tracking and everything else i love in the series = massive win :D

[QUOTE="ocidax"][QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]

It's funny that in the GT5 review. Its scored lower than the averageCritic Score and User Score

In Forza 3 Their score is higher than theCritic Score and user score.

But anyways, I trust myself to make my own Opinions. You must be one of those guys that care what a Movie gets reviewed like

Blinblingthing

Umm, Who said it wasn't important.

I trust MYSELF to make mt own decisions. I wasn't speak for SW.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Jimmy.

Looks freaking stunning. Forza 3 beat GT5. Forza 4 will f***ing destroy it. And what's with people saying GT is better? It loses in pretty much every department.

Whatever, Forza gets the Top Gear test track! W00t! :D

[QUOTE="jimmypsn"]

Forza has been king for a long time already. The only holdouts left are the diehards who refuse to believe it.

resevl4rlz

im sorry but no

I'm sorry but yes. jimmypsn hit the nail on the head, IMHO. Hail to the new king, baby.

Now, back to Shift 2 Unleashed. Forget Gamespot, this is awesome. :D

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Also 250k poly models are overkill. Sure they look absolutely amazing, but the amount of time it takes to make just one can't be justified when making a full game.

There is a good difference between can and should. Can the engine and hardware handle it? Sure. Should it? Not in all cases.

I think anybody here would rather see 600-700 cars with 100k polys and nice looking environments than 200 cars with 250k polys and 800 low res cars with major inconsistencies with the environmental visuals.

It's obvious that PD had to tone down something to get 16 250k models on the track at once.

Rikusaki

Better to start building 250k poly models now then to re-build all the cars again for GT7 when the PS4 is released. Just look at how many GT4 models were used in GT5. Kazunori said himself that GT6 will be running on the same game engine.

And as for GT7, the base model of the car can be eaily ported over (just like how tons of GT4 models were ported over to GT5).

That's just lazy. I'm with Wasdie, I'd rather have fewer cars if that means making them prettier as a result. Stronger focus on the cars I care about.

And there's something functionally wrong with Kazunori if he lets the Bugatti Veyron be a standard model and the Toyota Prius a premium model. :|

psh. remember the Forza 3 demo and the 'this demo is representative of the final product in terms of graphics' fiasco? yea, fanboys flooded the Forza 3 forums. seriously, they did it with Forza 2 and 3 by showing off photomode replays as trailers. when will you guys learn? weren't you here when the 'Forza 3 looks better than GT5' threads were all wiped out when the Forza 3 demo was released to the public?

rawr89