Next gen gonna suk

@tryit: This is some of the stupidest shit I've read in a long time lol.

A 72 gremlin is only $500 and a F40 is millions so obviously you HAVE to buy the F40, because there's only two options ever when buying cars. You win the derp award for today congrats.

the MSRP of a Ford Feista is $14,115

the MSRP of a Alfa Romeo 4C is $55,900

the 4C is more than 3x the MSRP of the Ford but the 4C is considered to be a better deal.

why? because its a friggin super car that can regularly compete with cars around $200,000 while the Ford Feista is a small little 3 cylinder car

If 'cheap' is the only indicator then web games are king

which is 'better'?

PC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySvb44ucuIE

Console:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZAZ98C9JzY

which is 'better'?

12TF should be the bare minimum

they also need an actual cpu and not this mobile APU crap

an underclocked 8 core ryzen paired with something along the lines of a 1080ti would be a dramatic leap in performance over the base models

I’ve spent over 10k on Home Audio and Video, all at or below MSRP. Never above MSRP

im not broke, and I’m not stupid

above WHOSE MSRP?

when you talk about MSRP you are assuming that a console and PC is the same thing, they arent. If we were talking about two things that were similar in hardware, services and games then yes...we can talk about MSRP but they are not.

How do you explain that there are MORE PC players then console players? if the price is so unbearably unreasonable then how is this possible?

they are like a Ford Festia or an Alpha Romero so obviously the Alpha Remero isnt going to have an MSRP of a Ford Feista.

so again, price is a non-starter in the conversation.

Its now very apparent you don’t know what MSRP means

of course I do. I do however fail to see what MSRP has to do with evaluating two different items.

I understand it when comparing two very similar items but not two very DIFFERENT items. I think maybe you just learned what MSRP and are so fascinated by it you cant focus on what I am saying

I am friggin 50 years old bro, I have known what MSRP is for longer then you likely have been alive

Nobody knows what you're attempting to say. I'm not sure you do, either.

so now its just random attempts at random insults in an attempt to trigger.

lol

I know you guys dont see it but I am trying to help you out by letting you know if all you do is explain how you are the cheapest option on the market you are NOT doing yourself any favors, you are making yourself look like a friggin discount store and a gamer with no money

The MANUFACTURERS

and what difference does that make with the question of quality?

if I make a POS and sell it to you at a very very low MSRP its still a POS.

If i make a great hot rod of awesomeness and charge you 10000x times the MSRP its STILL a better product.

even if two products are made with the exact same componets.

it has NOTHING to do with the question of quality

and by the way...I really want to correct how your using MSRP becuase its wrong but I dont want to get side tracked becuase it doesnt matter to my point anyway

@GioVela2010

I changed my mind I will address your misunderstanding of MSRP in hopes you will start to see my point.

A PC does not have an MSRP. people build their own PCs, some of the parts they get on sale some of them not on sale, some of them at 'Manufactured Suggested Retail Price' but PC itself does not have an MSRP. Even prebuilts basiclaly do not have an MSRP. The closest thing to an MSRP on a full PC would be a company website in which they state the price, if you find the PC for less then you could say you are paying less than MSRP

But NONE of that has anything to do with quality comparison between two products.

If MS says 'Xbox is $1000' and you find it on sale for $500 it does not make it a better console then if that didnt happen, it just makes it cheaeper, NOT better

^^a.) That's literally been your entire strategy in this completely unnecessary exchange. You've ignored literally everything anybody's said and went on rant after rant after rant with the same two points.

Anybody paying $1200 for a high-end video card in February 2018 either has a lot of disposable income or is a moron because video cards are absolutely not going to be that expensive in a few months when this cryptocurrency data-mining conspiracy that has them so expensive is sure to collapse and send prices back to where they should be.

Nobody's going to argue that a $500 video card isn't worth the investment in lieu of a cheaper option that's going to struggle to run games by the end of the year. But a $500 video card is absolutely not worth the $1200 price tag that's being asked of people right now. This market is not sustainable and it would be foolish to participate in it when it's only a temporary price. I'm not sure how many different ways people have to say that before you stop with this nonsense.

but again $1200 or $1200 BILLION it doesnt matter in the debate over quality.

if LITERALLY the only thing you can argue about is cost then you are literally taking the position of a discount deal poor mans gaming machine.

never mind the whole fact that I never in my 37 years of PC gaming ever spent more than $400 on a video card. that point doesnt even matter, when talking about quality you have to talk about quality, yes cost does come into it BUT if you ONLY focus on cost then you loose.

PCs have better games, the have more variety, they have more players, they have better access to mods, they have better access to internet, they have better gaming experience.

just like a super car is a better ride then a cheap car. YES it costs more, but why did you spend all that money on your entertainment center? because its BETTER..not because its cheaper

Just shutup

@GioVela2010 said:

@tryit said:

@GioVela2010

I changed my mind I will address your misunderstanding of MSRP in hopes you will start to see my point.

A PC does not have an MSRP.

Just shutup

1. a video card is not a PC !

2. in my 37 years of gaming I have never spent more than $400 on a video card and I never known anyone to spend more than $600

3. again MSRP REGARDLESS OF THE COST...doesnt address the question of quality.

so if you insit to keep advertising how the only thing wonderful about a console is that its a poor mans gaming machine then ok have at it, go for it all the way. be my guest but dont get offended when someone says it

@tryit said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@tryit said:

@GioVela2010

I changed my mind I will address your misunderstanding of MSRP in hopes you will start to see my point.

A PC does not have an MSRP.

Just shutup

1. a video card is not a PC !

2. in my 37 years of gaming I have never spent more than $400 on a video card and I never known anyone to spend more than $600

3. again MSRP REGARDLESS OF THE COST...doesnt address the question of quality.

so if you insit to keep advertising how the only thing wonderful about a console is that its a poor mans gaming machine then ok have at it, go for it all the way. be my guest but dont get offended when someone says it

1. This whole conversation has been about GPU‘s being price gouged because of miners

2. You can’t build a Gaming PC without a video card

@GioVela2010 said:

@tryit said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@tryit said:

@GioVela2010

I changed my mind I will address your misunderstanding of MSRP in hopes you will start to see my point.

A PC does not have an MSRP.

Just shutup

1. a video card is not a PC !

2. in my 37 years of gaming I have never spent more than $400 on a video card and I never known anyone to spend more than $600

3. again MSRP REGARDLESS OF THE COST...doesnt address the question of quality.

so if you insit to keep advertising how the only thing wonderful about a console is that its a poor mans gaming machine then ok have at it, go for it all the way. be my guest but dont get offended when someone says it

1. This whole conversation has been about GPU‘s being price gouged because of miners

2. You can’t build a Gaming PC without a video card

no this all started with me saying 'meanwhile the PC' to the OP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also...if a company rep gets on stage and says 'this is going to cost you 1 million dollars' and it actually does cost you 1 million dollars..

guess what? that is NOT above 'MSRP' that is exactly MSRP

but what I was addressing from the start is that PCs blow everything related to console generation completely out of the water (other than how wonderfully cheap the POS consoles are) because its a better gaming machine and people are buying more pc games then console games

the debate over who is the cheapest POS needs to friggin stop, its a silly arguement

Can't flop, won't stop.

Dude. I'm done with this. You're literally ignoring everything people are saying. Nobody's saying don't pay a premium for quality, and nobody's saying anybody should build a PC in February 2018 with a budget video card. We're all saying it would be silly to spend the kind of money companies are asking for video cards *at this particular moment.* Because, right now, you're not just paying for quality, you're paying companies for exploiting an economic system that's allowing them to charge 2-3 times what they should be selling components for.

This wasn't even an argument, or even a discussion to begin with. It was a blanket, one-off statement claiming video cards right now are absurdly overpriced and it would be silly to buy one until the crypto-mining debacle goes away.

I don't even know why I'm still responding to this. You've ignored everything anybody's said so you can continue making car analogies. In reading all of your posts with me and GioVela, I'm not sure you're actually aware of what's happened with the cost of PC components over the last twelve months, so I'd advise reading this article:

Bitcoin has Ruined Video Card Prices

I'm done after this, honestly. This conversation is going in circles, and you're not responding directly to anything anybody has posted. So, if you continue to argue this point, you win. I'm out. Enjoy your hollow victory and the fact that you're a middle-aged man arguing with teenagers on the Internet.

dude! if you look at what I said that started this it was my reply to the OP.

you are the one at fault here for confusing what I am talking about with what you want to talk about.

that said,

1. you are using MSRP WRONG!!!!!!!! anyway.

2. conversations over who is the cheapest POS needs to stop.

ITT senile old man discovers mining, the effects of mining on GPU prices, the meaning of MSRP, the fact that Computer parts have MSRP’s and after all this the senile old man still thinks he won

SAD

computer parts have an MSRP but when do you buy a computer part for over an MSRP?

when does the manufacturer get on stage and say 'this costs $400' and then you get to the store and the prices is $800?

that is number 1.

number 2 is that the cost regardless of MSRP does address the question of quality.

you console fan INSIST on talking about how cheap consoles are (and yes, who interjected me into this conversation DID try to make that observation regarding PC cost). I keep trying to tell you guys it makes you look silly but ok whatever just keep on going.

so again I say.

you guys fight but meanwhile PC is kicking it which was the entire point of my orginal reply

Ah look at this:!

Nvidia suggests retailers put gamers over cryptocurrency miners in graphics card craze. For instance, the Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070's suggested retail price is $380, but it was selling for upward of $450 last year and is now going for more than$700.Jan 26, 2018

however what I was replying to is the OP. read the OP word for word, then read my orginal reply

Lmao

I hope next gen consoles aren't out for another 2 or 3 years, still plenty of gas for this gen yet.

This gen sucks.

@gfxpipeline: How am I making crap up? X1X will be at least $400 in 2019 if not more. You think Sony will release a console much more powerful for around that price range in 1 or 2 years?

Get common sense, it helps.

What is this?

I want 20 flops and a Jaguar CPU...

naw man it's gonna be great. We will develop flippity-flops as a new unit of measurement, so you guys can go "Dude I Xbox 1440 Two has 30 flippity-flops" and then the other guy is like "Pffffft, PS 5 and a Half has 29 flippity-flops, but it has more giganarwhals which are actually better" and then the banter will go back and forth and, jusssssssssssst when everyone moves to 4K, 8K will come out! and you will all be losers again in the arms race of consoles.

And then talk about the PS 6 and Xbox 2160 version will start, and we will measure stuff in floops.

Agreed. All I see is suckers and whiners arguing over bullshit. No one asking about the games.

haha right?

I don’t think it’s gonna suck. Game developers are going to have to work harder to make good games so that people will want to buy the latest consoles, instead of making a console that is all flash with poor gameplay (which was sort of what happened with sega cd when hoisting technology was placed as a higher priority than gameplay.) Better games = better console. Seems to be the stance nintendo is taking too.

'common sense', LOL, right...

Let me guess, you were honestly shocked that Sony's PS4 humiliated Microsoft's Xbox One in graphical performance despite coming out at the same time while being 100 dollars cheaper...

I hope next gen looks like this.

Dude. I want to know more about this home audio setup. I see some very nice studio monitors there. I too work in audio. What are those lovely things? Please enlighten me; I'm in need of an upgrade from my 12" Yamahas.

My whole setup is:

65” OLED B7

Yamaha RXA3070

Dynaudio Excite X14 (2)

Dynaudio Excite X24 Center (1)

Aperion 4BP Surrounds (2)

Polk VT60 Cieling Speakers (4)

Ultimax UM18-22 + 2400W Plate Amp

God damn. Dynaudio makes some inspiring speakers. Another music buddy of mine has some and you'll hear stuff you've never heard in music before. Do you work in audio or you more of audiophile?

Based on the relative performance of a PC with a similarly capable CPU, it is more than reasonable to assume there would certainly be a bottleneck. I wouldn't call it "major". This is probably mitigated by locking applications at 30 FPS that could otherwise perform at 60 fps.

As far as an 8 Teraflop GPU passing as "next gen"? Not a chance. I would even have doubts that a GTX 1080ti tier GPU would be an acceptable solution. Console manufacturers are going to have to get creative if they want a proper "next gen" console before 2020 at a sub $600 price point.

Edit: And by 8 Teraflops I'm using what is typical output from an AMD chip, not Nvidia. 14+ flops AMD is similar to about 11-12 Nvidia.

The goals should be $549-599 and 15TF+ in 2021.

PS3 was $500 in 2005, with inflation alone that would be $650 today, and likely $700+ by 2021

AMD didn’t release a 6TFLOP until mid June 2015, 2.5 years later X1X Came Out. (R9 390X for $429)

Were 3.5 years away from a 2021 launch, which means AMD likely hasn’t release a GPU as powerful as next gen consoles will be. 2019 will likely be the year AMd will release a GPU with equivalent TFLOpS to next gen consoles. That GPU will likely be above $400 Like the R9 390X in 2015

And for the record the Vega 64 is 13 TFLOPS, so higher than that..

Don't believe his lies.

Got busted once wit the receiver

NOPE

In terms of FLOPS, the visual returns are not of similar proportion.

For example, the X360 GPU is about .240 TFLOPS. The XBONE is about 1.3 TFLOPS.

Thats about a 500% increase in peak performance and you can see the difference in terms of visuals.

The XBONE vs. XBONEX is 1.3 vs. about 6.

Thats about a 400% increase in peak performance and you can see that the overall visuals are not of the first proportion.

Say XBONEX vs. XBTWO is about 6 vs. 16

That's less than 300% peak performance. Will these visuals impress given that "per flop" image quality is not of proportion?

ill post proof just to annoy that GTX 670 Low Settings Warrior @zaryia

PC is going to win next gen, just like it won this gen and the gen before this.

Best gfx, best performance, best library.

#Winning

"The PC is going to win so much it's going to be so sick and tired of winning."

I can't even reasonably operate in the PC vs. Console paradigm that fanboys try to create in SW. Console fanboys try to compare consoles to PCs in regards to performance and price point like they're talking about two consoles. I'm actually surprised how many PC enthusiasts get pulled into those types of arguments.-

Of course they’ll impress, Sony exclusives on PS4 Pro wipe the floor with comparable TFlop PC’s.

I'm probably gonna be making the jump from 1080p to 4k or whatever at that point, so i'm all in. I've yet to feel the need to upgrade, as i'd rather take performance (even on PC) ove the resolution.

I just enjoy home theater entertainment , be it video games or movies

You mean "impressive" with a wink, right? Like the wink a corporate shill would give to a gullible audience. I own a PS4. I don't see what you see.

Is this where we pretend a GTX 970 with its 4TFLOPS Can produce anything as pretty as Horizon Zero Dawn on a 4K Display?