I'm sure :roll: And what exactly do you mean? This is there way of combating piracy. Many have tried different ways that all piss PC gamers off. DRM and what not. Nothing has worked. It has come to this for IW. Heaven forbid they try something of their own. Heaven forbid they charge $60 for a PC game that won't bring in as much revenue as the console version regardless. They didn't kill mods. You can still make mods. They just won't provide any. Why should they?Um, last I read, mods won't be allowed since userland servers won't be allowed. They probably aren't allowing mods because that'll cut into the revenue stream when they start releasing official for-sale DLC packs.[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]
Ok You just made Yourself unpopular with like, everyone on here. If they want to combat piracy so badly then they should do it with their own reserves. I doubt anyone here wants to pay for it, let alone 10 per game, along with the opportunity to shut down Your game when a sequel arrives. And killing the mods for... battling piracy too?
Yeah good luck with that.
That instances or people have the right to do something doesn't mean they should.Couth_
No dedicated servers for PC version MW2!
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I totally agree I'm so annoyed by the console gamers here. Instead of shouting down PC gamers like a bunch of fanboys, how about you try and elevate yourself and your platform's condition by demanding that third-parties allow you guys to host your own dedicated servers? Believe me, your experience would be dramatically improved.People saying that PC should be brought down to the level of consoles is fair? That's ridiculous! Consoles should be brought up to the level of PCs, why would anyone support sub-standard over standard? The PC standard isn't above average, it is the average and has been for a good 10 years.
Then console companies suddenly give people who don't play PCs a very sub-par online experience and suddenly people who've never played online think that anything better is too much to ask for. Yet people still happily bend over and take it like the obedient consumers they are, paying more for less and why would the companies bother to change if they can just keep on ripping you off?
Flanker15
So then honestly aren't you glad about that? Tons of other PC games to play and Modern Warfare and the CoD series in general has became consolized to the point the PC basically gets a console port. People will vote with their wallets. These petitions will do null. Stop trying to control people's behavior. The online petition WILL get noticed seeing as it's grown by 25,000 signatures in the last 11 hours and it spreads the word to likeminded individuals who WILL boycott this game.[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]It will put a dent into PC sales, which I expect will be a lot lower than CoD1,2 and 4 were. Of course most lost sales will be result of not petitions or complaining, but of MP being dead on arrival. It might not hurt IW that much, but the less MW2 sells on PC the better for it's competitors on PC, competitors more deserving of our money
Couth_
Go to the IW forums and read this thread: http://www.infinityward.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=125310
It's a list of clans that have resolved not to purchase MW2 on the basis of it having no dedicated servers (according to them this makes recruitment and clan maintainence unsustainable and thus MW2 will be inferior to COD4).
In the first 2 pages there are like a dozen clans with 30+(some closer to 100) members apiece pledging not to purchase or support this game on the basis of no dedicated servers and the thread is now up to 18 pages. In case you didn't realize, clan support is the thing that drives PC gaming communities. Without them, there is no bandwidth, there is no competitive gaming scene, there is no sustainability in the online community. PC gamers will just move on to Battlefield or stick with COD4, there is no reason to buy a gimped experience.
Point being: spreading the word will force their hand. The internet is how people communicate. Deal with it.
But isn't the $60 xbox 360 price tag for profit as well? Given that the 360 version will probably out sell the pc version by 10x, couldn't you argue that they need to charge $60 to increase profits from their pc version? I guess I don't understand the belief that all games should be a fixed price forever, especially when pc games have been $50 for over a decade while inflation has gone up. It's their game, they can try to charge $60 if they want. If it isn't worth $60 to you then don't buy it. Wait a month and get it for $45 on ebay.[QUOTE="dc337"]
[QUOTE="JangoWuzHere"]Their is no reason why PC gamers have to pay 60$ for modern warfare. The 10 extra $ for console gamers are to pay for licensing fees. The 10$ increase for the PC version is just for pure profit. You will never understand really unless you were a PC gamer yourself...zipozal
10x is an absurd number (purely unsubstantiated false information from someone who hates PC Gaming) , by mid January 2008 the PC version had sold 383 Thousand retail copies, the data says in 2007 14% percent of non-casual PC Game sales game through digital distribution. ( And that was a growing trend so it is likely retail accounts for more like 10% today )
The pc had sold 383,000 while the 360 version had sold 3.04 million. MW2 on 360 could sell 10x the pc version with all the hype and marketing it is getting. I also think a lot of pc gamers will skip this time because of all the changes. But the main point is that it will undoubtedly outsell the pc version by a large amount which could justify making the pc version the same price.
A lot of people here seem to be upset with them using iwnet but let's not forget what happened last time:
http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=011508_10
By not providing the game server software they are going to make it a lot more difficult to play on a cracked server. They are probably going to run file integrity checks when you connect to the server which is why mods are no longer allowed. It's their game, they can lock it up if they want. If anyone is to blame it is the pirates that encourage developers to take these types of precautions.
I know a lot of pc gamers are upset by what they are doing but remember that COD has become a console game due to the vast majority of sales being on 360/PS3. So be glad they are making a pc version and one that you can still buy at retail. I wouldn't be surprised if they went steam only at some point.
[QUOTE="zipozal"]
[QUOTE="dc337"] But isn't the $60 xbox 360 price tag for profit as well? Given that the 360 version will probably out sell the pc version by 10x, couldn't you argue that they need to charge $60 to increase profits from their pc version? I guess I don't understand the belief that all games should be a fixed price forever, especially when pc games have been $50 for over a decade while inflation has gone up. It's their game, they can try to charge $60 if they want. If it isn't worth $60 to you then don't buy it. Wait a month and get it for $45 on ebay.
dc337
10x is an absurd number (purely unsubstantiated false information from someone who hates PC Gaming) , by mid January 2008 the PC version had sold 383 Thousand retail copies, the data says in 2007 14% percent of non-casual PC Game sales game through digital distribution. ( And that was a growing trend so it is likely retail accounts for more like 10% today )
The pc had sold 383,000 while the 360 version had sold 3.04 million. MW2 on 360 could sell 10x the pc version with all the hype and marketing it is getting. I also think a lot of pc gamers will skip this time because of all the changes. But the main point is that it will undoubtedly outsell the pc version by a large amount which could justify making the pc version the same price.
A lot of people here seem to be upset with them using iwnet but let's not forget what happened last time:
http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=011508_10
By not providing the game server software they are going to make it a lot more difficult to play on a cracked server. They are probably going to run file integrity checks when you connect to the server which is why mods are no longer allowed. It's their game, they can lock it up if they want. If anyone is to blame it is the pirates that encourage developers to take these types of precautions.
I know a lot of pc gamers are upset by what they are doing but remember that COD has become a console game due to the vast majority of sales being on 360/PS3. So be glad they are making a pc version and one that you can still buy at retail. I wouldn't be surprised if they went steam only at some point.
Not surprised, DC just ignores the facts and continues to propagate false information
How about addressing my argument, oh wait you can't, you refuse to acknowledge the digital distribution sales because you got nothing :lol: :lol:
383 Thousand are the RETAIL NUMBERS, RETAIL = 14% of PC Game Sales
This is starting to look alot like that abysmal Nvidia thread you started where you just tried to ignore the facts behind the situation and then ultimately just ran away.
10x is an absurd number (purely unsubstantiated false information from someone who hates PC Gaming) , by mid January 2008 the PC version had sold 383 Thousand retail BOX copies, the data says in 2007 retail sales account for 14% of PC Game sales leaving 86% for digital distribution and monthly fees( And that was a growing trend so it is likely retail accounts for more like 10% today
So if 383 thousand was roughly 14% of the PC Versions sales in the first 2 months of release then you can conclude in the first 2 months the PC Version sold
2.726 Million copies.
You can find more evidence to support the PC Version sold roughly that many copies in the fact that we know the ORANGE BOX on PC
( which heavily outsold the console versions )
SOURCE
Doug Lombari We were very happy with both the Xbox 360 and PS3 sales. I think the Xbox 360 version did just over a million, while the PS3 version did a few hundred thousand copies. So I think when all is said and done, The Orange Box will have sold about 1.5 million copies on the console, which is great. But the game's PC sales were much stronger.
This interview was done four and a half months after the release of Orange Box.
So lets be conservative and say when Doug said "But the game's PC sales were much stronger. " means the PC Version of Orange Box at that time had sold 2+ million. ( Though I would imagine "MUCH STRONGER" meant more like 3 million )
So now if you looked at the player/server count online of COD4 you would know the game is much, much more popular than the multiplayer aspect ( Team Fortress 2 ) of Orange box.
So with all this evidence considered my 2.7 million estimate sounds very accurate.
Now lets factor in the fact that Gabe Newell said on Half life 2 his company got 7 dollars for every box copy sold, while for every digital copy they got 4x as much, 28 dollars.
Now Valve owns steam so they obviously get a higher share of profits per digital copy than others do, but lets be conservative yet again and assume that Infinity Ward gets at least double the amount of money from each digitally sold copy of the game than it does from each 360/PS3/PC Retail boxed copy.
That means for 86% of the 2.7 million sold on PC in the first two months of the game being out it go double the amount of money out of each copy than it did on the retail boxes.
That means profit wise the PC 2.7 Million sales is equal to 5.05 Million console copies of the game sold and thats in the first two months. Not as much as the 360 version, but far more than you give PC Gaming credit for.
So 10x :lol: the facts say the 360 Version sold more like twice as much and the PC version is much more profitable than the PS3 version. So in reality dc the numbers you make up are just as bad as someone saying you need to buy a PC for 5 Grand to play PC Games
You really need to calm down. They're just video games.So if 383 thousand was roughly 14% of the PC Versions sales in the first 2 months of release then you can conclude in the first 2 months the PC Version sold
2.726 Million copies.
zipozal
The pc version sold 383,000 units at retail in two months.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50951
You linked to a thread that had some links related to global game sales. Try providing some actual sales data.
You haven't shown how you can conclude that the pc version sold 2.726 million copies in two months. Why don't you try posting evidence and not irrelevant data like how much the Orange box sold. Your post has way too much speculation. You have no proof that the pc version even sold over half a million in two months.
If you didn't notice the 10x was a *prediction* and a rough one at that which makes me wonder why you are so upset.
You really need to calm down. They're just video games.[QUOTE="zipozal"]
So if 383 thousand was roughly 14% of the PC Versions sales in the first 2 months of release then you can conclude in the first 2 months the PC Version sold
2.726 Million copies.
dc337
The pc version sold 383,000 units at retail in two months.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/50951
You linked to a thread that had some links related to global game sales. Try providing some actual sales data.
You haven't shown how you can conclude that the pc version sold 2.726 million copies in two months. Why don't you try posting evidence and not irrelevant data like how much the Orange box sold. Your post has way too much speculation. You have no proof that the pc version even sold over half a million in two months.
If you didn't notice the 10x was a *prediction* and a rough one at that which makes me wonder why you are so upset.
I don't know how you take me laughing at the ridiculous arguments you make as a sign that I'm agitated....... I'm far from it, over you really?
They don't have any actual sales data for digital distribution you know why? If IW did release the Digital Distribution sales data their constant crying about piracy would look far less compelling. In reality they have an incentive not to release digital distribution numbers because it hurts their piracy plea, thats why you will never ever see digital distribution numbers from the likes of IW
I know you have a deep seated hatred for PC Gaming so you admitting that the overwhelming majority of sales for COD MW on PC came from people who bought digital copies isn't going to happen, but it's true nonetheless.
I know you hate the facts, I know you hate PC Gaming, but at the end of the day COD MW has unarguably sold far more digitally.
It is also unarguable that games make substantially more money off each digital copy.
You can argue the accuracy of my final number to a degree, but at the end of the day my speculation that the PC version made roughly 5 million copies worth of sales (PROFIT WISE) is far, far more accurate than the pathetic 383 thousand number you keep citing.
A number that completely ignores the overwhelming majority of PC Game Sales.
A number thats used for PR piracy propaganda.
[QUOTE="Flanker15"]I totally agree I'm so annoyed by the console gamers here. Instead of shouting down PC gamers like a bunch of fanboys, how about you try and elevate yourself and your platform's condition by demanding that third-parties allow you guys to host your own dedicated servers? Believe me, your experience would be dramatically improved.The console makers won't play ball. Security reasons--userland servers would shoot their walled gardens full of holes.People saying that PC should be brought down to the level of consoles is fair? That's ridiculous! Consoles should be brought up to the level of PCs, why would anyone support sub-standard over standard? The PC standard isn't above average, it is the average and has been for a good 10 years.
Then console companies suddenly give people who don't play PCs a very sub-par online experience and suddenly people who've never played online think that anything better is too much to ask for. Yet people still happily bend over and take it like the obedient consumers they are, paying more for less and why would the companies bother to change if they can just keep on ripping you off?
Brownesque
So then honestly aren't you glad about that? Tons of other PC games to play and Modern Warfare and the CoD series in general has became consolized to the point the PC basically gets a console port. People will vote with their wallets. These petitions will do null. Stop trying to control people's behavior. The online petition WILL get noticed seeing as it's grown by 25,000 signatures in the last 11 hours and it spreads the word to likeminded individuals who WILL boycott this game.[QUOTE="Couth_"]
[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]It will put a dent into PC sales, which I expect will be a lot lower than CoD1,2 and 4 were. Of course most lost sales will be result of not petitions or complaining, but of MP being dead on arrival. It might not hurt IW that much, but the less MW2 sells on PC the better for it's competitors on PC, competitors more deserving of our money
Brownesque
Go to the IW forums and read this thread: http://www.infinityward.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=125310
It's a list of clans that have resolved not to purchase MW2 on the basis of it having no dedicated servers (according to them this makes recruitment and clan maintainence unsustainable and thus MW2 will be inferior to COD4).
In the first 2 pages there are like a dozen clans with 30+(some closer to 100) members apiece pledging not to purchase or support this game on the basis of no dedicated servers and the thread is now up to 18 pages. In case you didn't realize, clan support is the thing that drives PC gaming communities. Without them, there is no bandwidth, there is no competitive gaming scene, there is no sustainability in the online community. PC gamers will just move on to Battlefield or stick with COD4, there is no reason to buy a gimped experience.
Point being: spreading the word will force their hand. The internet is how people communicate. Deal with it.
If the L4D2 boycott was any indication, then online protests will mean so much diddly to Activision and IW. If these clans really want to express their disapproval, they need to put ink or toner to paper and mail in their complaints.
[QUOTE="deleterguy"]402 said it in a podcast on http://www.bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=76darklord888And no mods. Basically, the PC version is dead. PC gamers are getting a 100% console port. If Activision could find a way to copyright the word "evil" I guarantee you they'd have a monopoly in it. So uh... as I always ask, why are people buying Modern Warfare 2? No, "I liked the first Modern Warfare" doesn't cut it - if you liked the first one *keep playing it* - paying for a degraded version of more of the same is making less and less sense.
The console makers won't play ball. Security reasons--userland servers would shoot their walled gardens full of holes.HuusAskinghttp://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?t=15196
Granted, it's only Section 8, but still - a user-hosted dedicated server (running on PC) for an Xbox 360 game.
I must confess I am thoroughly amazed people are accusing PC gamers as being 'whiners'. Key features that have been an industry standard for the platform are being removed for blatant profiteering goals. How would you like it if you had to endure twenty minute installations and driver updates on a console?
[QUOTE="zipozal"]
I don't know how you take me laughing at the ridiculous arguments you make as a sign that I'm agitated....... I'm far from it, over you really?
They don't have any actual sales data for digital distribution you know why? If IW did release the Digital Distribution sales data their constant crying about piracy would look far less compelling. In reality they have an incentive not to release digital distribution numbers because it hurts their piracy plea, thats why you will never ever see digital distribution numbers from the likes of IW
I know you have a deep seated hatred for PC Gaming so you admitting that the overwhelming majority of sales for COD MW on PC came from people who bought digital copies isn't going to happen, but it's true nonetheless.
I know you hate the facts, I know you hate PC Gaming, but at the end of the day COD MW has unarguably sold far more digitally.
It is also unarguable that games make substantially more money off each digital copy.
You can argue the accuracy of my final number to a degree, but at the end of the day my speculation that the PC version made roughly 5 million copies worth of sales (PROFIT WISE) is far, far more accurate than the pathetic 383 thousand number you keep citing.
A number that completely ignores the overwhelming majority of PC Game Sales.
A number thats used for PR piracy propaganda.
dc337
So you are no longer defending the number you pulled from your imagination but now I hate facts because I made a *rough prediction* based on initial sales of COD4 and the angry response from pc gamers over MW2.
As for pc gaming no I don't hate it and would actually consider this game on the pc if my friends weren't hooked on MMOs.
I just think pc gaming is overrated and I find the arrogance of pc-only gamers to be incredibly annoying. I have been told at least a hundred times on this board that I don't actually need a console even though the games I am playing right now (Magna Carta 2, Skate 2, South Park XBLA) are not available on the pc. I also don't consider htpcs to be adequate replacements for consoles. They're too much of a hack solution and don't provide equal functionality to consoles. PC gaming is better at a desk with games designed for it.
I think maybe you should open a dicationary, first you said I was speculating (which was the right word to use. ) then you say I'm imagining, I don't know who taught you english, but they should have let you know the major difference between the two words.
The apparent joy you displayed at the Nvida GPU news, a story you wrongly interpreted as a sign of trouble for PC Gaming (An industry experiencing double digit growth yearly, another inconvient fact that spits in the face of much of the PC bashing you've done and likely will continue to propagate on these boards.)
Honestly how many times have you said on these boards that PC Gaming is dying?
The problem with you is you will gladly use actual sources to support a position you take, but when they to counter the fallacies you propagate here daily you just ignore them.
I mean think about it all the data says that non-casual PC Gaming is growing.
But what have you done and are going to continue to do? Echo the idea that PC Gaming is dying when it's not because you do hate it, you want to believe it's dying when the facts say it's not dying, but growing.
Yes the 360 version of MW did out sell the PC version 10 to 1, IF you live in imagination land a land where there are no digital game sales, but here in the real world DC337 there are digital distribution sales and they are the majority of sales.
So any reasonable person can figure out that the total retail PC sales numbers for COD MW on PC exclude not just some, but a majority of the games total PC sales.
i don't think they're whiners, but i fail to see how anybody didn't see this coming for miles. COD community consistently abused ded servers for point exploits and other cheats. If people won't play nice why should IW give a ****? I admit not all people abused it - but you should know by now that a few bad apples can certainly spoil the bunch. i'm gonna wait until they make an official comment or announcement re: how this will work exactly and what will happen to user content - until then, colour me ******* off at all the l33t kids who took advantage of dedicated servers.I must confess I am thoroughly amazed people are accusing PC gamers as being 'whiners'. Key features that have been an industry standard for the platform are being removed for blatant profiteering goals. How would you like it if you had to endure twenty minute installations and driver updates on a console?
Verge_6
[QUOTE="Verge_6"]i don't think they're whiners, but i fail to see how anybody didn't see this coming for miles. COD community consistently abused ded servers for point exploits and other cheats. If people won't play nice why should IW give a ****? I admit not all people abused it - but you should know by now that a few bad apples can certainly spoil the bunch. i'm gonna wait until they make an official comment or announcement re: how this will work exactly and what will happen to user content - until then, colour me ******* off at all the l33t kids who took advantage of dedicated servers. Sorry, but if you think games should have levelups you're abusing yourself. If you want to grind go play an MMORPG and stay out of competitive multiplayer. The way I see it Achievement Box and the like are hard justice to an institution that just wants us to spend our lives in their game.I must confess I am thoroughly amazed people are accusing PC gamers as being 'whiners'. Key features that have been an industry standard for the platform are being removed for blatant profiteering goals. How would you like it if you had to endure twenty minute installations and driver updates on a console?
3picuri3
I must confess I am thoroughly amazed people are accusing PC gamers as being 'whiners'. Key features that have been an industry standard for the platform are being removed for blatant profiteering goals. How would you like it if you had to endure twenty minute installations and driver updates on a console?
Verge_6
The lack of support for these PC gamers is appalling as well.
At least PC gamers have the balls to complain when they dislike a product especially to a behemoth like Activision.
But consolites are so oblivious to the great features PC gamers have, and have had for years, so they'll just continue to buy their watered down games with limited features.
[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]i don't think they're whiners, but i fail to see how anybody didn't see this coming for miles. COD community consistently abused ded servers for point exploits and other cheats. If people won't play nice why should IW give a ****? I admit not all people abused it - but you should know by now that a few bad apples can certainly spoil the bunch. i'm gonna wait until they make an official comment or announcement re: how this will work exactly and what will happen to user content - until then, colour me ******* off at all the l33t kids who took advantage of dedicated servers. Sorry, but if you think games should have levelups you're abusing yourself. If you want to grind go play an MMORPG and stay out of competitive multiplayer. The way I see it Achievement Box and the like are hard justice to an institution that just wants us to spend our lives in their game. wtf are you talking about..... what the hell does that have to do with anything i said?I must confess I am thoroughly amazed people are accusing PC gamers as being 'whiners'. Key features that have been an industry standard for the platform are being removed for blatant profiteering goals. How would you like it if you had to endure twenty minute installations and driver updates on a console?
Brownesque
i signed up today i hope it will change something
1.) PC version had sold 383 Thousand retail copies, the data says in 2007 14% percent of non-casual PC Game sales game through digital distribution.
( And that was a growing trend so it is likely retail accounts for more like 10% today )
zipozal
hmmm...Im trying to figure out how you came up with those numbers. Dont get me wrong, you have linked some sources, but the percentages that you created from those sources dont add up.
(before) digital distribution = 14%, retail = 86%;
(afterwards) digital distribution = 90%, retail = 10%
Are you saying that digital distribution now holds 90% of the market?
I find it hard to believe that such a huge change happened in the industry that quickly.
And if it sold 383,000 copies through retail and 14% through DD that means that the 383 thousand was 86% of the sales so how does 14% add up to be in the millions if 383,000 already accounted for 84% of total sales?
[QUOTE="zipozal"]
1.) PC version had sold 383 Thousand retail copies, the data says in 2007 14% percent of non-casual PC Game sales game through digital distribution.
( And that was a growing trend so it is likely retail accounts for more like 10% today )
Trmpt
hmmm...Im trying to figure out how you came up with those numbers. Dont get me wrong, you have linked some sources, but the percentages that you created from those sources dont add up.
(before) digital distribution = 14%, retail = 86%;
(afterwards) digital distribution = 90%, retail = 10%
Are you saying that digital distribution now holds 90% of the market?
I find it hard to believe that such a huge change happened in the industry that quickly.
And if it sold 383,000 copies through retail and 14% through DD that means that the 383 thousand was 86% of the sales so how does 14% add up to be in the millions if 383,000 already accounted for 84% of total sales?
Hmmm, I agree. I don't think the change is that substantial, however speaking for my area, PC in retail is virtually non-existant. However this obviously may not denote a growing trend :P
Honestly how many times have you said on these boards that PC Gaming is dying? zipozalI've made topics on how some areas of pc gaming are in decline and how some genres like sports are pretty much dead but I've never stated that pc gaming is dying. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?
Yes the 360 version of MW did out sell the PC version 10 to 1, IF you live in imagination land a land where there are no digital game sales, but here in the real world DC337 there are digital distribution sales and they are the majority of sales. zipozalYou have totally missed the point of my original statement. I'm not even sure if you read it properly. Here it is again:
The pc had sold 383,000 while the 360 version had sold 3.04 million. MW2 on 360 could sell 10x the pc version with all the hype and marketing it is getting.
Do you not see the *could* in that sentence? COULD COULD COULD. Do you believe that it is impossible for the 360 version to sell that much? Instead of going on some diabtribe with made-up numbers why didn't you just state why 10x seems to high to you? Do you have a crystal ball? If not then don't spend so much time responding to a simple prediction.
You are obviously distraught by the MW2 server news, not just by your reply but by the fact that you have the MW2 petition in your signature.
If you are going to direct your anger anywhere it should be at pirates who encourage developers to take these types of steps.
http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/29258/Piracy-angers-Call-of-Duty-4-developer
[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]i don't think they're whiners, but i fail to see how anybody didn't see this coming for miles. COD community consistently abused ded servers for point exploits and other cheats. If people won't play nice why should IW give a ****? I admit not all people abused it - but you should know by now that a few bad apples can certainly spoil the bunch. i'm gonna wait until they make an official comment or announcement re: how this will work exactly and what will happen to user content - until then, colour me ******* off at all the l33t kids who took advantage of dedicated servers. Sorry, but if you think games should have levelups you're abusing yourself. If you want to grind go play an MMORPG and stay out of competitive multiplayer. The way I see it Achievement Box and the like are hard justice to an institution that just wants us to spend our lives in their game....what?I must confess I am thoroughly amazed people are accusing PC gamers as being 'whiners'. Key features that have been an industry standard for the platform are being removed for blatant profiteering goals. How would you like it if you had to endure twenty minute installations and driver updates on a console?
Brownesque
Sorry, but if you think games should have levelups you're abusing yourself. If you want to grind go play an MMORPG and stay out of competitive multiplayer. The way I see it Achievement Box and the like are hard justice to an institution that just wants us to spend our lives in their game....what? He's talking about point exploits. Apparently he was butthurt because people were abusing Infinity Ward's little carefully constructed leveling and online unlockables cheese maze. Frankly, I think it should be abused. Vigorously and repeatedly.[QUOTE="Brownesque"][QUOTE="3picuri3"] i don't think they're whiners, but i fail to see how anybody didn't see this coming for miles. COD community consistently abused ded servers for point exploits and other cheats. If people won't play nice why should IW give a ****? I admit not all people abused it - but you should know by now that a few bad apples can certainly spoil the bunch. i'm gonna wait until they make an official comment or announcement re: how this will work exactly and what will happen to user content - until then, colour me ******* off at all the l33t kids who took advantage of dedicated servers.gmc2u_64
I've made topics on how some areas of pc gaming are in decline and how some genres like sports are pretty much dead but I've never stated that pc gaming is dying. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?
As for pc gaming no I don't hate it
dc337
You seem to be completely incapable of addressing multiple points, I make several points in a thread and you ignore most and respond to only one.
So since you seem to be incapable of address multiple things I'll limit it to one thing.
The fact that you are flat out a liar....................... you say you don't hate it yet..
Looking through your posting history I see that you devote more than 90% of your time here relentlessly attacking PC gaming.
Not only do you hate PC gaming, but I think you hate and obsess over it more than any other poster on this board.
It's to the point where it's like your main goal in life is to bash PC Gaming.
Liar, To Quote DC337
"I have never claimed that pc gaming is dead, but I have claimed that it is in decline."
In the above quote we can clearly see you believe PC gaming as a whole (not just some areas like sports games) is in decline when non-casual PC Gaming is experiencing double digit growth yearly.
[QUOTE="darklord888"][QUOTE="deleterguy"]402 said it in a podcast on http://www.bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=76subrosianAnd no mods. Basically, the PC version is dead. PC gamers are getting a 100% console port. If Activision could find a way to copyright the word "evil" I guarantee you they'd have a monopoly in it. So uh... as I always ask, why are people buying Modern Warfare 2? No, "I liked the first Modern Warfare" doesn't cut it - if you liked the first one *keep playing it* - paying for a degraded version of more of the same is making less and less sense. Heeey subrosian, couldn't You make a good letter for people to send to Acti to flood their mail room thing? I tried to put one together, but i think it sucks.
I was really looking forward for MW2 because it is being released near the end of my school term lol. F' this, I'm getting Borderlands and I'm sticking with my Waw. At least Treyarch didn't charge us for extra content or remove dedicated servers even though the game was hard to install for some people. Infinity Ward, you just made MW2 a P.o.S by raising the price + removing dedicated servers + steam + a lot of other crap.
Pirates don't encourage developers to take those steps, developers encourage pirates to pirate by not giving them a legitimate product. Like it or not enforcement of intellectual property laws with software or media is demonstrably and obviously impossible. .Brownesque
If COD4 didn't have such a high piracy rate they wouldn't be going to managed servers.
Intellectual property laws are enforced all the time. Server-side processing makes piracy of multiplayer games incredibly difficult. The PS3 still doesn't have any piracy.
Piracy has been changing pc gaming the last 10 years. I know that a million anonymous internet posters would like to convince me that piracy isn't a problem but I think I will take the word of established game developers.
But go ahead and blame the developers who create the games instead of pirates who are nothing but parasites. It won't matter who you blame since your opinion means nothing to the people that actually work hard creating these games. Companies like IW make decisions based on piracy and sales data, not the opinions of internet posters.
riiiight...that's why the other big PC P2P FPS this year : Operation Flashpoint 2 is the easiest to play with pirated version game of the year :D
Intellectual property laws are enforced all the time. Server-side processing makes piracy of multiplayer games incredibly difficult.dc337
http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?t=15196[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]The console makers won't play ball. Security reasons--userland servers would shoot their walled gardens full of holes.lowe0
Granted, it's only Section 8, but still - a user-hosted dedicated server (running on PC) for an Xbox 360 game.
Saw that, and I'm not saying it's impossible, but no one's copying the idea. Not to mention the possibility of someone managing to hack the server program. Watch this carefully to see if console userland servers become viable in future.riiiight...that's why the other big PC P2P FPS this year : Operation Flashpoint 2 is the easiest to play with pirated version game of the year :D Well it has to be done properly. But it's well established that you can severely limit piracy by requiring cd keys to play online and then as an extra step keep the hosting software on company servers.[QUOTE="dc337"]
Intellectual property laws are enforced all the time. Server-side processing makes piracy of multiplayer games incredibly difficult.AdrianWerner
[QUOTE="Brownesque"]Pirates don't encourage developers to take those steps, developers encourage pirates to pirate by not giving them a legitimate product. Like it or not enforcement of intellectual property laws with software or media is demonstrably and obviously impossible. .dc337
If COD4 didn't have such a high piracy rate they wouldn't be going to managed servers.
Intellectual property laws are enforced all the time. Server-side processing makes piracy of multiplayer games incredibly difficult. The PS3 still doesn't have any piracy.
Piracy has been changing pc gaming the last 10 years. I know that a million anonymous internet posters would like to convince me that piracy isn't a problem but I think I will take the word of established game developers.
But go ahead and blame the developers who create the games instead of pirates who are nothing but parasites. It won't matter who you blame since your opinion means nothing to the people that actually work hard creating these games. Companies like IW make decisions based on piracy and sales data, not the opinions of internet posters.
As a PC Gamer first and foremost, what you're saying is quite true. It's upsetting actually to see the platform marginalized by freeloaders. Even if piracy is not to blame for each and every game, there's still a major perception problem, a PR problem. I don't blame any developer that brings up piracy. If they work and own an IP, and people aren't paying to play, they can complain all they want, and have every damn right too. Unfortunately, publishers/developers then make decisions based on the freeloaders and it does hurt the PC platform, whether we'd like to admit it or not. I still feel that if the PC sales figures were higher, or at least comparable to the console versions, we'd most likely hear less about piracy. With the overwhelming number of PC Gamers in the world, and the tens of millions of gaming capable PC's, games should be selling a lot more then they currently are.riiiight...that's why the other big PC P2P FPS this year : Operation Flashpoint 2 is the easiest to play with pirated version game of the year :D Well it has to be done properly. But it's well established that you can severely limit piracy by requiring cd keys to play online and then as an extra step keep the hosting software on company servers.not really. Before you could at least go after servers allowing cracked versions, now once they go around IWNet there will be nothing stoping the piracy.[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]
[QUOTE="dc337"]
Intellectual property laws are enforced all the time. Server-side processing makes piracy of multiplayer games incredibly difficult.dc337
IWnet isn't about piracy, if that was the goal they would go with GFWL instead, especially since lack of dedicated servers and mod tools will severly damage the sales of PC version.
It's all about control, with IWNet they can sell DLC because that's the only way gamers will be able to get a new content and also IWNet will stop people from clinging to older games, instead they will be forced to go out a buy CoD7-8 instead of stubbornly sticking to COD2.
The fact that even IW themselves are downplaying piracy as a reason for IWNet should tell you their real agenda has little to do with stopping piracy.
Plus really...with MP so broken...why would most PCgamers buy the damn game instead of pirating? CoD used to be a game that was bought even by people who rarely buy any games at all, because of MP, now it will be gone.
[QUOTE="lowe0"]http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?t=15196[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]The console makers won't play ball. Security reasons--userland servers would shoot their walled gardens full of holes.HuusAsking
Granted, it's only Section 8, but still - a user-hosted dedicated server (running on PC) for an Xbox 360 game.
Saw that, and I'm not saying it's impossible, but no one's copying the idea. Not to mention the possibility of someone managing to hack the server program. Watch this carefully to see if console userland servers become viable in future.I think lack of interest is going to kill it long before technical issues do. Unless this helps Section 8 sell more copies, I don't see other developers lining up to be the next test subject.[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="lowe0"] http://forums.timegate.com/showthread.php?t=15196Saw that, and I'm not saying it's impossible, but no one's copying the idea. Not to mention the possibility of someone managing to hack the server program. Watch this carefully to see if console userland servers become viable in future.I think lack of interest is going to kill it long before technical issues do. Unless this helps Section 8 sell more copies, I don't see other developers lining up to be the next test subject.Even if it becomes a matter of sink or swim?Granted, it's only Section 8, but still - a user-hosted dedicated server (running on PC) for an Xbox 360 game.
lowe0
Ok i will post my stupid letter because NOBODY else seems to want to make a stupid letter, while i suck at it.
It just contains the things that bug me a bit and i'm not very good at being nice, so i'm not sure it applies to You.
Just print it and send it.
The letter itself doesn't really matter that much anyway. Maybe someone can at least turn it into a nice letter.
Dear Activision Blizzard person,
Following the news surrounding the very profitable Activision Blizzard company the last couple of months i have written this letter to offer some insight into Your current public image and a suggestion to help with this situation. I will try to keep it short.
Continuously the company has been placed in a bad daylight with special thanks to Your CEO, Bobby Kotick. One of the newsitems upsetting gamers all around was the raising of the prices of several games. Just after You threatened Sony to put an end to Your PS3 support because the PS3 is supposedly too expensive. That was very inappropriate.
Another great newsitem was that You dropped the ball on Double Fine's project Brutal Legend, after wanting to turn it into a Guitar Hero serf, only to sue them to cancel the project from turning into a success without You. Of course the company lost that lawsuit. Or should i say, You would have lost it but You bought Yourself a way out.
Along with the news from Infinity Ward that their Call Of Duty 4 project was to be another World War 2 clone, based on marketing research, not insight or common sense. I think this happened in line with Your earlier outings that Activision Blizzard is not interested in games that "don't have the potential to be exploited every year on every platform with clear sequel potential and have the potential to become $100 million franchises. … I think, generally, our strategy has been to focus… on the products that have those attributes and characteristics, the products that we know [that] if we release them today, we'll be working on them 10 years from now." Every gamer out there could have told You another World War 2 clone would have been a bad idea. This showed Your inexpertise and lack of care for gaming.
And i guess the desire to sell Call of Duty on a yearly basis is what drove You to take out the dedicated servers for Call of Duty 5, something that the PC modding and clan community couldn't appreciate but luckily for You ensures that You can shut down the game early on when the next sequel arrives and sell Your DLC. This is another example of not caring about what the customer wants but attempting to push Your own way to make money down their throat.
I guess that explains why, when visiting the Activision Blizzard website, i had to search my way through annual reports, financial statistics and investor news to find how to contact You. In fact the contact link on the main page takes me to the Investor Relations Department. Your website is meant for investors, not or gamers. You know, the people that this company should have been trying to please and inform.
Moving on to the worst of all newsitems, again from our hero Bobby Kotick, that the (monetary) success of Activision Blizzard was caused by a culture in which money stands above "just making games" and aiming for an atmosphere of "pessimism, sceptism and fear." Something that we can all agree would be punishable by law if we could have a clear indicator of what You're doing. We have all seen the results (for example the French Telecom suicides) when a company stops caring about its employees.
It seems that right after Electronic Arts, receiving many complaints, is slowly correcting its wrongs so that its founders and employees can sleep peacefully at night, Activision Blizzard is going through the same dreadful mistakes all over again.
While at first i thought You were a gaming company, it has become apparent in the public eye that there is nothing more to Activision Blizzard than yet another money pit. Your practises are slowly tearing away Your customers, but i'm not sure You will be able to see that yet. Hence this letter.
There is a difference between being succesful and being profitable. To be succesful You at least need some form of mission statement, an idea of why Your company should exist, but i can't even find Yours. Schemes, lawsuits, marketing and not caring about Your employees and potential customers will make You profitable and maybe even succesful on a short term, but You will eventually lose Your passionate and talented employees and Your fed up customers, when they find out the neighbours provide games and positions with a passion and with an insight in what they wanted that You can never provide with a sole monetary aim. If You continue down this path it will only ruin things for Your customers and employees, until Your very downfall.
Thank You for reading all this. Now please save us a lot of trouble and go out of business,
From a fan.
Heres something to cheer up you hermits
CRYSIS BABY!!!!
best graphics ever!!
Well the online Petition is over 103K and everytime I hit the refresh button every couple of seconds it keeps on getting higher and higher 2-6+ every second.04dcarraherSomeone needs to post the letter to convince all the petitioners to also mail in.
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