no wonder why many prefer console gaming over Pc's

all those ports that run like c-r-a-p on Pc, even with fairly good rigs.. what a disappointment.

what stayed great about Pc gaming is the Indie scene and those genres that are not present on consoles.

I don't know much about performance on console, but I don't see people complaining about issues on consoles as often as pc gamers do.

what's so hard about getting games to run decently?

so what says you?

Which ones run like crap?

Oft times, even with some issues (DX-11 effects and Batman:AA for example), you are still running at a much higher quality than the consoles are. It's going to take a more impressive rig, due to the fact that you are running a higher resolution, higher AA/AF, higher FPS, higher texture quality, etc, etc.

Which ones run like crap?

Often times, even with some issues (DX-11 effects and Batman:AA for example), you are still running at a much higher quality than the consoles are. It's going to take a more impressive rig, due to the fact that you are running a higher resolution, higher AA/AF, higher FPS, higher texture quality, etc, etc.

lundy86_4

Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.Androvinus

Not always the case.

Many bugs/glitches can go unfixed, even by the developer (Bethesda/Obsidian games as an example). However, the PC will always have its community, where community fixes are often made available.

the games are poorly optimized, many of them, SO many of them. I don't care if they're console ports, they all are, but it's pathetic how they do not care about the Pc platform at all. not always does a monster rig is enough to solve the performance issues, so we're left waiting for patches. if a game is designed around a console, it should frigging run well on a 9800 GT, for example, because it's far superior to consoles' gpu's. but often this doesn't happen.aleuni

What games are poorly optimized? What is your criteria for being poorly optimized?

We need an objective baseline to determine if a game is poorly optimized, and to what extent.

"so we're left waiting for patches", officially? Maybe. What about unofficial community fixes?

No, it shouldn't necessarily run well on a 9800GT, due to differing factors (OS overhead for example). Are we comparing console settings on PC with the the console performance?

there is too many variables with hardware on PC. with consoles the hardware is constant and you can release a patch that can work for everybody if there is a problem.

[QUOTE="Androvinus"]Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.lundy86_4

Not always the case.

Many bugs/glitches can go unfixed, even by the developer (Bethesda/Obsidian games as an example). However, the PC will always have its community, where community fixes are often made available.

there is too many variables with hardware on PC. with consoles the hardware is constant and you can release a patch that can work for everybody if there is a problem.

taterfrickintot

[QUOTE="aleuni"] the games are poorly optimized, many of them, SO many of them. I don't care if they're console ports, they all are, but it's pathetic how they do not care about the Pc platform at all. not always does a monster rig is enough to solve the performance issues, so we're left waiting for patches. if a game is designed around a console, it should frigging run well on a 9800 GT, for example, because it's far superior to consoles' gpu's. but often this doesn't happen.lundy86_4

What games are poorly optimized? What is your criteria for being poorly optimized?

We need an objective baseline to determine if a game is poorly optimized, and to what extent.

"so we're left waiting for patches", officially? Maybe. What about unofficial community fixes?

No, it shouldn't necessarily run well on a 9800GT, due to differing factors (OS overhead for example). Are we comparing console settings on PC with the the console performance?

Yea, but consoles don't do digital distribution that well so...I'm still going to sell my PS3 and become a PC gamer in January.

have you ever bought a game on release? I recently bought L.A. Noire and it stutters on my 460. was going to get Batman AC too, but it runs crap even on 580 gtx's. stop excusing developers please. have you played Half Life on pc? it ran on old Pc's like a charm, even on weak gpu's. aleuni

No, we pirate them all :roll:

LA Noire was another **** port by Rockstar. It sucks ass performance wise on consoles as well. Arkham City has performance problems if you use PhysX and high tessellation.

True, but not every game has a community like Oblivion or Fallout. And that the case for in game things like quests and npcs. What about for people whose screen goes black when they try to run the game. Or it runs at 10 fps even though they have the latest hardware. Their only option is to hang around the support forum for days and hope that someone has the same problem as them and that they have a solution.Androvinus

Nope, in fact, im sure there are games where community fixes aren't possible altogether. Kinda sucky.

I'm not saying there are no issues, but often the communities work pretty fast.

have you ever bought a game on release? I recently bought L.A. Noire and it stutters on my 460. was going to get Batman AC too, but it runs crap even on 580 gtx's. stop excusing developers please. have you played Half Life on pc? it ran on old Pc's like a charm, even on weak gpu's. aleuni

A number of games, yes.

I'm not excusing anybody. However, you've ignored all my points, likely because you cannot answer them.

Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what..Androvinus

meh, its not that, its just people have friends who have consoles and they just wanna have fun with friends or the consoles have games that you can't find on pc, vice versa also

[QUOTE="Androvinus"]Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.lundy86_4

Not always the case.

Many bugs/glitches can go unfixed, even by the developer (Bethesda/Obsidian games as an example). However, the PC will always have its community, where community fixes are often made available.

show me a community for DEAD rising 2 pc where they fixed the GFWL block your game launcher. Or a community to help fix Crysis2, COD's aim bots(it came from the community)

ask players to wait for month to get a game they paid for full price to get fixed never was a satisfied solution for the rest , time wasted = oppunrity cost lost, most players prefer to play a game on purchase and move on to other things next, Sales and market interest is a brute reality all developers and gamers have to deal with, not so much for hermit reality.

gaming on PC does have it's charms, I like modding a game I seriously like, or playing at maximum graphic with x16AA super sample(at least at the end of this console generation) but no 1 is in any position to tell anyone to wait for month to

show me a community for DEAD rising 2 pc where they fixed the GFWL block your game launcher. Or a community to help fix Crysis2, COD's aim bots(it came from the community)

ask players to wait for month to get a game they paid for full price to get fixed never was a satisfied solution for the rest , time wasted = oppunrity cost lost, most players prefer to play a game on purchase and move on to other things next, Sales and market interest is a brute reality all developers and gamers have to deal with, not so much for hermit reality.

gaming on PC does have it's charms, I like modding a game I seriously like, or playing at maximum graphic with x16AA super sample(at least at the end of this console generation) but no 1 is in any position to tell anyone to wait for month to

pcps360

Read the rest of that conversation, rather than jumping in one or two quotes too early.

Regardless, I said "... are often made available." This means, they are not available all of the time. Hell, some games likely don''t have a community large enough, or the community has no way of fixing some instances, like you have shown.

I much prefer PC gaming. Ever since I purchased my rig and I rapidly moved away from console gaming.

What about all the amazing games on pc this year? Alot of hte best games this year are pc exclusive.

Total War Shogun2

The Witcher 2

To The Moon

Anno 2070

Terraria

Not to mention the better version of Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim, Deus Ex HR, Crysis2 and many more.

Yes there is a few lazy ports, but the majoriety of MULTIPLAT games are better on PC then consoles.

Yea, but consoles don't do digital distribution that well so...I'm still going to sell my PS3 and become a PC gamer in January.

Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="aleuni"]have you ever bought a game on release? I recently bought L.A. Noire and it stutters on my 460. was going to get Batman AC too, but it runs crap even on 580 gtx's. stop excusing developers please. have you played Half Life on pc? it ran on old Pc's like a charm, even on weak gpu's. lundy86_4

A number of games, yes.

I'm not excusing anybody. However, you've ignored all my points, likely because you cannot answer them.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]Yea, but consoles don't do digital distribution that well so...I'm still going to sell my PS3 and become a PC gamer in January.da_illest101

• You can download a game you purchased an unlimited amount of times.
• Digital retailers are open 24/7 so one can shop as they please.
• Digital copies are never out of stock meaning that any gamer from any generation can enjoy a game as it isn't subhject to availability anymore. Crazy prices cannot be charged for rare games anymore either as rare games no longer exist.
• The game takes up no physical space like a box, manual, and disc would.
• A game that is downloaded and installed runs better than a game that runs off a disc.
• Places like Good Old Games give you manuals, wallpapers, game guides, maps, soundtracks, avatars. artbooks, calendars, and other stuff with your purchase.
• Places like Green Man Gaming allow you to trade in your games for credit towards future purchases.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="aleuni"]have you ever bought a game on release? I recently bought L.A. Noire and it stutters on my 460. was going to get Batman AC too, but it runs crap even on 580 gtx's. stop excusing developers please. have you played Half Life on pc? it ran on old Pc's like a charm, even on weak gpu's. aleuni

A number of games, yes.

I'm not excusing anybody. However, you've ignored all my points, likely because you cannot answer them.

Its mostly the big budget blockbuster games.

Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.Androvinus

I disagree with this, maybe back in the 64/PS1 days but not now at all. Crysis 2, Bayonetta PS3, Skyrim, GTA4, Gears 3, Castlevania LOS, Dark Souls etc etc.

all those ports that run like c-r-a-p on Pc, even with fairly good rigs.. what a disappointment.

what stayed great about Pc gaming is the Indie scene and those genres that are not present on consoles.

I don't know much about performance on console, but I don't see people complaining about issues on consoles as often as pc gamers do.

what's so hard about getting games to run decently?

so what says you?

aleuni

People on console don't complain too much about performance, because they don't know any better.

But the problems ARE there. Take a looka t pretty much ANY console release the past year that is not an indie title. EVERY review will mention frame rate issues, loading time issues, textures issues. You name it.

Just off the top of my head, Arkham City on the consoles was said, by several reviewers, to suffer form pop-in and frame rate issues. Same with the sequel to demon souls. The xbox 360 version of Skyrim has super low rez textures (still not fixed) and the frame rate drops a ton occasionally (never will be fixed - it's just the console's old hardware struggling).

But people on consoles, unless they are PC gamers too, don't know what aa smooth 60 FPS frame rate even looks like, nevermind actually expect it from each game.

As for performance issues on the PC, sure, they crop up, and it's usually the developer's fault (but sometimes Nvidia or AMD drops the ball), but they all pretty much get fixed within the first month of release.

Take Arkham City on PC for example: The only issue is with DX 11. It'll get fixed.

In the meantim the game looks 10x better on PC, even with DX9, and I'm getting like 140 FPS at 2650x1440 with Physx on high.

I don't have to suffer through crappy textures, jaggies, poor view distance, low quality 3D meshes, screen tearing, and frame rate issues like the console version STILL SUFFERS FROM. There's no fixing 6 year old hardware.

Nah, I'll stick to Pc gaming, thank you very much, even with the occasional hiccup, because the alternative is just not how Iw ant to experience gaming.

the problem is that many developers just won't bother double checking their porting over to the pc work, exiling Pc to play the role of the fifth wheel. aleuni

Actually, digital copies can run out of stock lol. Rare, but it happened a couple times. Also no PC game run off disk, its always installed to the hd and runs all off the hd...Captain__Tripps

is it me ignoring your points or you ignoring the problematics surrounding Pc gaming? what do you want me to say? inconstant and/or low framerate? bugs? glitches? they happen so often on release and that should not happen, because you're going to pay full price for the software. I've started playing with a 386, so yes, I can answer your questions and the system overhead isn't really a good argument. the problem is that many developers just won't bother double checking their porting over to the pc work, exiling Pc to play the role of the fifth wheel. aleuni

It's you ignoring my questions. I haven't denied anything regarding poor-optimization. In fact, I even outlined Batman AA and DX11 effects in one of my posts as an example.

I want to know how you are defining poor optimization, and what settings are we looking at? Are you comparing poor performance when looking at higher resolutions/settings/AA/AF/etc/etc and using that as your guiding post? Or, are you comparing the games running at console settings, and seeing how well they run on specific hardware/

Problems exist on the PC, as does poor optimization. I am not the person, however, who stated:

all those ports that run like c-r-a-p on Pc, even with fairly good rigs.. what a disappointment.

aleuni

"all"? Really?

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="aleuni"] the games are poorly optimized, many of them, SO many of them. I don't care if they're console ports, they all are, but it's pathetic how they do not care about the Pc platform at all. not always does a monster rig is enough to solve the performance issues, so we're left waiting for patches. if a game is designed around a console, it should frigging run well on a 9800 GT, for example, because it's far superior to consoles' gpu's. but often this doesn't happen.aleuni

What games are poorly optimized? What is your criteria for being poorly optimized?

We need an objective baseline to determine if a game is poorly optimized, and to what extent.

"so we're left waiting for patches", officially? Maybe. What about unofficial community fixes?

No, it shouldn't necessarily run well on a 9800GT, due to differing factors (OS overhead for example). Are we comparing console settings on PC with the the console performance?

Runs fine on amd cards with newest drivers.

Hmm what about those complaints about not connecting online on PSN and XBL when people tried to play BF3, or when PS3 gamers got a crappy performance port of Bayonetta or about the complaints of saved files on the XBOX360 version of Arkham City randomly disappearing, or what about console users complaing about the bugs of bethesda games? :P

[QUOTE="Captain__Tripps"]Actually, digital copies can run out of stock lol. Rare, but it happened a couple times. Also no PC game run off disk, its always installed to the hd and runs all off the hd...Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="Captain__Tripps"]Actually, digital copies can run out of stock lol. Rare, but it happened a couple times. Also no PC game run off disk, its always installed to the hd and runs all off the hd...AdrianWerner

Prey isn't sold on steam anymore because 2k won't generate new keys.

Only reason why I prefer doing majority of my gaming on consoles is i prefer controller > kb/m and I've been doing it alot longer on consoles than pc

[QUOTE="aleuni"] is it me ignoring your points or you ignoring the problematics surrounding Pc gaming? what do you want me to say? inconstant and/or low framerate? bugs? glitches? they happen so often on release and that should not happen, because you're going to pay full price for the software. I've started playing with a 386, so yes, I can answer your questions and the system overhead isn't really a good argument. the problem is that many developers just won't bother double checking their porting over to the pc work, exiling Pc to play the role of the fifth wheel. lundy86_4

It's you ignoring my questions. I haven't denied anything regarding poor-optimization. In fact, I even outlined Batman AA and DX11 effects in one of my posts as an example.

I want to know how you are defining poor optimization, and what settings are we looking at? Are you comparing poor performance when looking at higher resolutions/settings/AA/AF/etc/etc and using that as your guiding post? Or, are you comparing the games running at console settings, and seeing how well they run on specific hardware/

Problems exist on the PC, as does poor optimization. I am not the person, however, who stated:

all those ports that run like c-r-a-p on Pc, even with fairly good rigs.. what a disappointment.

aleuni

"all"? Really?

maxing out is one thing, running the game decently is another. before getting a fix, you can experience performance issues no matter the settings; of course you're not lowering the resolution any lower than 1280x720, but for example someone with a 22" screen would rather play the game at 1680x1050.

I'm not referring to crazy high resolutions, just something that suits the player best when sitting on a fairly short distance, where 720p and 2x AA are in my opinion the very minimum acceptable settings, with the rest set to high, or at least medium.

I even had problems with Brotherhood with such "low" settings, the game would stutter and I'd have some serious framedrops throughout the game. and the gfx card was fine, I even went so far as to open the case and give it a cleanup, ran differnt tests on the hardware, installed new drivers, adding values to the shortcuts, etc etc. but at the end of the day the real problem is how they optimize the games, now I'm learning that on consoles thing are not any better, so I'm calling it bad developers, so many of them.

maxing out is one thing, running the game decently is another. before getting a fix, you can experience performance issues no matter the settings; of course you're not lowering the resolution any lower than 1280x720, but for example someone with a 22" screen would rather play the game at 1680x1050. I'm not referring to crazy high resolutions, just something that suits the player best when sitting on a fairly short distance, where 720p and 2x AA are in my opinion the very minimum acceptable settings, with the rest set to high, or at least medium. I even had problems with Brotherhood with such "low" settings, the game would stutter and I'd have some serious framedrops throughout the game. and the gfx card was fine, I even went so far as to open the case and give it a cleanup, ran differnt tests on the hardware, installed new drivers, adding values to the shortcuts, etc etc. but at the end of the day the real problem is how they optimize the games, now I'm learning that on consoles thing are not any better, so I'm calling it bad developers, so many of them.aleuni

Unfortunately, like I said, this doesn't address exactly what is unoptimized for the system. We need a baseline to determine how much, if at all, a game is unoptimized. It could simply be using more hardware due to running higher resolutions and higher quality assets at a higher FPS than consoles.

I'm not saying all PC games are optimized, as that would just be asinine. It's just that it's so difficult to quantify a game as being unoptimized, especially when it isn't such a cut and dry classification.

Consoles receive far less issues, for obvious reasons. Though they definitely have their own (PS3 and Skyrim as an example).

I even had problems with Brotherhood with such "low" settings, the game would stutter and I'd have some serious framedrops throughout the game. and the gfx card was fine,

aleuni

Only reason why I prefer doing majority of my gaming on consoles is i prefer controller > kb/m and I've been doing it alot longer on consoles than pcBallroompirate

[QUOTE="aleuni"]

I even had problems with Brotherhood with such "low" settings, the game would stutter and I'd have some serious framedrops throughout the game. and the gfx card was fine,

AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="aleuni"]

I even had problems with Brotherhood with such "low" settings, the game would stutter and I'd have some serious framedrops throughout the game. and the gfx card was fine,

AdrianWerner

I was going to say. They did an awesome job with Brotherhood!

It played butter smooth, and graphics were noticeably better than AC2 PC and a LOT better than the console game.

I was frankly surprised since it was Ubisoft and a title that is otherwise very concle centric. But no, played amazingly well.

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]Only reason why I prefer doing majority of my gaming on consoles is i prefer controller > kb/m and I've been doing it alot longer on consoles than pcHexagon_777

Sitting on a Lovesac = win

Tv size > Monitor size

A lot of reasons that I don't care to go into, it's like people who personally like blondes or red heads, it's all personal.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="aleuni"]

I even had problems with Brotherhood with such "low" settings, the game would stutter and I'd have some serious framedrops throughout the game. and the gfx card was fine,

aleuni

I'm not saying everyon had a perfect experience, but the vast majority did. I certinaly didn't have anything but praise for that game's Pc version.

[QUOTE="Androvinus"]Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.GD1551

I disagree with this, maybe back in the 64/PS1 days but not now at all. Crysis 2, Bayonetta PS3, Skyrim, GTA4, Gears 3, Castlevania LOS, Dark Souls etc etc.

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]Only reason why I prefer doing majority of my gaming on consoles is i prefer controller > kb/m and I've been doing it alot longer on consoles than pcBallroompirate

Sitting on a Lovesac = win

Tv size > Monitor size

A lot of reasons that I don't care to go into, it's like people who personally like blondes or red heads, it's all personal.

I also game from my couch on my PC though... And actyually my PC chair WAY better than my couch.

And TV size might be > than monitor size, but I don't sit 10 feet from my monitor. My monitor actually takes up a FAR larger field of view than my TV does from my couch.

I get it that you prefer it that way, and no skin off my back. But for me, personally, being up close to a highly detail image (2560x1440 27" monitor) is MUCH more immersive than being 10 feet from a TV.

Obviously YMMV.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="Androvinus"]Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.Androvinus

I disagree with this, maybe back in the 64/PS1 days but not now at all. Crysis 2, Bayonetta PS3, Skyrim, GTA4, Gears 3, Castlevania LOS, Dark Souls etc etc.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="Androvinus"]Yup. One of the best things about consoles is that the games run well, no matter what. Everyone has the same system, so if there is a problem, everyone will have it and a fix will very soon be available. With PC gaming theres always a variety of issues and many people can't get the help they need.Androvinus

I disagree with this, maybe back in the 64/PS1 days but not now at all. Crysis 2, Bayonetta PS3, Skyrim, GTA4, Gears 3, Castlevania LOS, Dark Souls etc etc.

DELUSIONAL.

Do you think that just because we are PC gamers we don't known consoles?

GTAIV has consitent, terrible frame rate issues, Skyrim, same, except that on xbox 360 they also feature 1990's style textures.

And that's ignoring all the other crap you have to dela with on consoles: screen tearing, jaggies, low rez tectures, muddy textures thanks to no or little AF, pop-in, long loading times...

No thanks.

[QUOTE="pcps360"]

show me a community for DEAD rising 2 pc where they fixed the GFWL block your game launcher. Or a community to help fix Crysis2, COD's aim bots(it came from the community)

ask players to wait for month to get a game they paid for full price to get fixed never was a satisfied solution for the rest , time wasted = oppunrity cost lost, most players prefer to play a game on purchase and move on to other things next, Sales and market interest is a brute reality all developers and gamers have to deal with, not so much for hermit reality.

gaming on PC does have it's charms, I like modding a game I seriously like, or playing at maximum graphic with x16AA super sample(at least at the end of this console generation) but no 1 is in any position to tell anyone to wait for month to

lundy86_4

Read the rest of that conversation, rather than jumping in one or two quotes too early.

Regardless, I said "... are often made available." This means, they are not available all of the time. Hell, some games likely don''t have a community large enough, or the community has no way of fixing some instances, like you have shown.

or maybe it's you chose to come to defense on a widely well known issue for PC with a such piss poor excuse? some games or the rest, does that make a difference? let's say "some game" have community to fix the issue with a patch in 3 month. is that make it fair? or is this your first time in your life seeing PC gamers complaint about crappy experience on PC for multipats?