** OMG Next time I hear somebody say this...

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blue_hazy_basic

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#51 blue_hazy_basic  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 30854 Posts
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Exactly why I say the Wii is the only reason this generation is seeing a growth. People here say the game industry is growing, yet they also hate Nintendo and the Wii. To me, that doesn't make sense, because while Nintendo didn't make an impact last generation, Nintendo is the REASON why this generation is still showing growth compared to last generation.

mjarantilla

I have a Wii and have nothing against the system I love it (until my dog chewed through the power cord last week it was always our "go to" thing to play with guests). However, I can see some people's view that it hurts the gaming industry. Game sales for the console have been pretty lackluster, partly due to the poor selection and its audience don't buy a huge number of games a year and many of the games do not appeal to a hardcore western gaming audience of this forum.

That's a myth. The Wii has an average software attach rate of a little over 4 right now in the US. The 360 at this time last year had a software attach rate of 3.4.

Links?
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BreakingPoint8

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#52 BreakingPoint8
Member since 2007 • 3347 Posts

@BreakingPoint,

My point is that, at that time, the $300 price-tag for a system is this generation's $5-600 price-tag. And yet people still consumed the GT3 product.

Pariah_001

lol no it wasn't, you do realize the PlayStation 1 launched for $299 back in 1995 vs the $399 Sega Saturn. The PlayStation 2 was $299 through 2001, while the GameCube was $199 at launch. Xbox was $299. $500-600 is why the PlayStation 3 is doing as bad as it is. Make no mistake it IS doing bad compared to the PlayStation and PlayStation 2.

Like I stated before, the PlayStation 2 had a 1 year head start on the Xbox and GameCube, and also launched some of the highest rated/selling games in 2001 taking full advantage of it's head start.

I'm not saying the Xbox 360 is doing as good or even anywhere near as good as the PlayStation 2. I'm saying Sony made huge mistakes and lost too many exclusives for this gen to be a repeat of the last. They're going to have to watch as Nintendo takes the lead, and split what's left with the 360. Because honestly I don't see the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 crushing each other. I agree, it seems like the Wii is the casuals PS2, but those who bought a PS2 for the big games (MGS,GTA etc) will move to the 360/PS3.

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Navy_Sealz

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#53 Navy_Sealz
Member since 2007 • 336 Posts

Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.BioShockOwnz

Luckily Gran Turismo games are excellent.

GT is known to many as the best racing game in the world. Check the reviews too.

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BreakingPoint8

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#54 BreakingPoint8
Member since 2007 • 3347 Posts

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.Navy_Sealz

Luckily Gran Turismo games are excellent.

GT is known to many as the best racing game in the world. Check the reviews too.

Grand Turismo 3 was a great game for its time, as was GT1 and GT2 which I loved for the PS. Grand Turismo 4 was a huge let down for me though. It was GT4 that made me move onto Forza 1, which was a much better racing sim.
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Pariah_001

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#55 Pariah_001
Member since 2003 • 4850 Posts

lol no it wasn't, you do realize the PlayStation 1 launched for $299 back in 1995 vs the $399 Sega Saturn. The PlayStation 2 was $299 through 2001, while the GameCube was $199 at launch. Xbox was $299. $500-600 is why the PlayStation 3 is doing as bad as it is. Make no mistake it IS doing bad compared to the PlayStation and PlayStation 2.BreakingPoint8

Of course it's moving slower, I don't see anyone disputing that. I was trying to make a point about the demand for the PS2 based on games like GT and why it gives foreshadowing for the PS3's career. Quite simply,people felt GT3 was a $350 game. It's not so outlandish, in modern day, to assume that the next installment will be worth $700 dollars to the diehard GT fanbase.

And why else do you think the Saturn's career was so short lived exactly? So what if there was a more expensive system in the 90s, people felt 3-$400 was too much in 01 just like they felt it was too much in the 90s. The PS2 didn't even have to have the better library since it was the only one with a library in the first place.

Like I stated before, the PlayStation 2 had a 1 year head start on the Xbox and GameCube, and also launched some of the highest rated/selling games in 2001 taking full advantage of it's head start.

Even if it didn't have a head start. The competitors' games were so inauspicious that it wouldn't have mattered. Starting all of them off at the same time, the PS2 still would have won.

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mjarantilla

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#56 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]Exactly why I say the Wii is the only reason this generation is seeing a growth. People here say the game industry is growing, yet they also hate Nintendo and the Wii. To me, that doesn't make sense, because while Nintendo didn't make an impact last generation, Nintendo is the REASON why this generation is still showing growth compared to last generation.

blue_hazy_basic

I have a Wii and have nothing against the system I love it (until my dog chewed through the power cord last week it was always our "go to" thing to play with guests). However, I can see some people's view that it hurts the gaming industry. Game sales for the console have been pretty lackluster, partly due to the poor selection and its audience don't buy a huge number of games a year and many of the games do not appeal to a hardcore western gaming audience of this forum.

That's a myth. The Wii has an average software attach rate of a little over 4 right now in the US. The 360 at this time last year had a software attach rate of 3.4.

Links?

Nintendo's quarterly financial report

23.19 million software sales, 3.81 million hardware sales. Total attach rate of 6.08. Subtract 1 for WiiSports, and subtract 0.5 for WiiPlay (assuming half of Wii owners bought WiiPlay, but could be more), and you have an attach rate of about 4.5.

EDIT: My bad. The 360's attach rate in November 2006 was 5.2. In 2005, I think it was 3.4, that's where I was confused.

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The_Ish

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#57 The_Ish
Member since 2006 • 13913 Posts
The PS2 already had more than 10 million sold by that point...
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xxoblivion911xx

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#58 xxoblivion911xx
Member since 2006 • 121 Posts
[QUOTE="Liquid-GEAR"][QUOTE="ButtonBacon"]

*throws Brick*

*leaves thread*

ButtonBacon

*catches brick, builds cage, throws you incage with lions*

*morphs into Chuck Norris*

*Breaks out of cage*

*Beat the **** out of loins*

*throws Mega Brick*

*Leaves thread for good*

LMFAO chuck norris

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sainraja

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#59 sainraja
Member since 2006 • 1956 Posts

Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.BioShockOwnz

Did you just call Gran Turismo mediocre? Oh wait, it doesn't happen to be on your favorite platform. Oh I see.

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BreakingPoint8

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#60 BreakingPoint8
Member since 2007 • 3347 Posts

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.sainraja

Did you just call Gran Turismo mediocre? Oh wait, it doesn't happen to be on your favorite platform. Oh I see.

Reason why some might see it as mediocre now...is because GT4 wasn't anywhere near as good as GT3 was for it's time. That's why Forza 1 out scored it pretty much everywhere, but didn't outsell it.
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too_much_eslim

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#61 too_much_eslim
Member since 2006 • 10727 Posts
Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.BioShockOwnz
WOah I can understnad 50 and maybe JT, but Kanye West is awesome.He talks about something in his music. The fact you even compared him to somebody as bad as 5o cents is just wrong.
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sonicmj1

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#62 sonicmj1
Member since 2003 • 9130 Posts

Look at the monthly console sales. The original Xbox sold consistently over 150,000 units a month. The PS3 until its price drop barely managed 80,000 units a month. The PS2, meanwhile, sold consistently over 300,000 to 400,000 units per month, while the Xbox 360 is selling barely 180,000 per month.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the Wii is the only home system saving this generation. The only reason this industry is seeing a growth in console sales is because of the Wii, which is selling better than the PS2 ever did. If you remove Nintendo from the equation, and compare only Sony and Microsoft over both generations, then there's been a 50% drop in sales.

mjarantilla

That's because Nintendo is the market leader right now. Do you really think that if the Wii didn't exist, those 400,000 people buying Wiis each month wouldn't get anything?

The PS2 was selling at the rate the Wii is now (with a comparable game lineup relative to time since launch), but I wouldn't say that Sony saved the game industry then anymore than I'd say that Nintendo is saving the industry now.

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BreakingPoint8

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#63 BreakingPoint8
Member since 2007 • 3347 Posts
[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.too_much_eslim
WOah I can understnad 50 and maybe JT, but Kanye West is awesome.He talks about something in his music. The fact you even compared him to somebody as bad as 5o cents is just wrong.

50 Cents new album sucks so much lol. It's really sad.
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mjarantilla

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#64 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Look at the monthly console sales. The original Xbox sold consistently over 150,000 units a month. The PS3 until its price drop barely managed 80,000 units a month. The PS2, meanwhile, sold consistently over 300,000 to 400,000 units per month, while the Xbox 360 is selling barely 180,000 per month.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the Wii is the only home system saving this generation. The only reason this industry is seeing a growth in console sales is because of the Wii, which is selling better than the PS2 ever did. If you remove Nintendo from the equation, and compare only Sony and Microsoft over both generations, then there's been a 50% drop in sales.

sonicmj1

That's because Nintendo is the market leader right now. Do you really think that if the Wii didn't exist, those 400,000 people buying Wiis each month wouldn't get anything?

The PS2 was selling at the rate the Wii is now (with a comparable game lineup relative to time since launch), but I wouldn't say that Sony saved the game industry then anymore than I'd say that Nintendo is saving the industry now.

Yes, actually, I do. I certainly don't think they would all run out and buy 360s or PS3s. Many of them probably already have 360s or PS3s.

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DrinkDuff

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#65 DrinkDuff
Member since 2004 • 6762 Posts
[QUOTE="Yellow_Rose"]I can bring up quite a few PS3 game sales to counter your argument, but for right now I'll just ask this question.

What was the price of the PS2 when GT3 released?

Pariah_001

How exactly would a PS3 sales ratio counter an academic event that occurred last generation?

Moreover, there was not yet a price-drop for the PS2 when GT3 was released.

Even before the price drop the PS2 was abouthalf the price of the PS3. As much as you want to deny it, price has an influence in sales, as do bundles. People like to save money. Also, I'd like to point out that GT3 was a technical achievement at the time, but today its gameplay wouldn't hold up well. If GT5 doesn't make some changes to the formula its just going to be GT4 with prettier graphics. The point is, GT3 had that wow factor that led to a lot of sales and it was on the cheapest console to boot.
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sonicmj1

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#66 sonicmj1
Member since 2003 • 9130 Posts
[QUOTE="sonicmj1"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Look at the monthly console sales. The original Xbox sold consistently over 150,000 units a month. The PS3 until its price drop barely managed 80,000 units a month. The PS2, meanwhile, sold consistently over 300,000 to 400,000 units per month, while the Xbox 360 is selling barely 180,000 per month.

It doesn't take a genius to realize that the Wii is the only home system saving this generation. The only reason this industry is seeing a growth in console sales is because of the Wii, which is selling better than the PS2 ever did. If you remove Nintendo from the equation, and compare only Sony and Microsoft over both generations, then there's been a 50% drop in sales.

mjarantilla

That's because Nintendo is the market leader right now. Do you really think that if the Wii didn't exist, those 400,000 people buying Wiis each month wouldn't get anything?

The PS2 was selling at the rate the Wii is now (with a comparable game lineup relative to time since launch), but I wouldn't say that Sony saved the game industry then anymore than I'd say that Nintendo is saving the industry now.

Yes, actually, I do. I certainly don't think they would all run out and buy 360s or PS3s. Many of them probably already have 360s or PS3s.

I don't. Most people don't get multiple consoles. The PS2's success should show that. Over 100 million PS2s were sold, relative to about 45 million Xboxes and Gamecubes. That means that at least half the market owned only one console. Very likely, the proportion is much, much higher. Why would things be different this time around?

There'd probably be some hit to the market if there were no Wii (after all, one of the three providers would have disappeared), but I can't imagine those 400,000 consumers a month would disappear altogether. All game consoles fulfill a similar function. For many, if they need that niche filled, the 360 and PS3 do serve as substitutes for the Wii, albeit imperfect ones.

Still, you missed my other point. Considering the PS2 was about as successful as the Wii in terms of console sales, with a lineup of approximately equal strength, dominating its competitors to a similar degree, would you say that Sony saved the console industry last generation?

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mjarantilla

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#67 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts

I don't. Most people don't get multiple consoles. The PS2's success should show that. Over 100 million PS2s were sold, relative to about 45 million Xboxes and Gamecubes. That means that at least half the market owned only one console. Very likely, the proportion is much, much higher. Why would things be different this time around?sonicmj1

I agree, most people only get one console. But I don't think that the people who only bought one console feel that they HAVE to buy a new console at all, especially when the only two alternatives don't suit their preferences.

Now, they MAY have started buying after a price drop to sub-$300, but by then I think most will have been weaned off any desire at all for a new system. It would have to be an impulse buy at that point, and for many folks, $300 is still too high for an impulse buy, especially if the price drop occurs two or three years from now when the systems won't seem nearly as impressive. That would translate to monthly sales that are still as low as they are now.

There'd probably be some hit to the market if there were no Wii (after all, one of the three providers would have disappeared), but I can't imagine those 400,000 consumers a month would disappear altogether. All game consoles fulfill a similar function. For many, if they need that niche filled, the 360 and PS3 do serve as substitutes for the Wii, albeit imperfect ones.sonicmj1

I imagine they simply wouldn't buy into the next generation at all. That's a possibility no one really talks about, even though it's perfectly evident from still-high PS2 sales. People who buy the Wii on its own simply aren't looking for a "next gen" experience, and I think they'd be perfectly happy to content themselves with the PS2. Even if devs stopped or slowed down making games for it, there are still thousands of existing games to choose from.

Still, you missed my other point. Considering the PS2 was about as successful as the Wii in terms of console sales, with a lineup of approximately equal strength, dominating its competitors to a similar degree, would you say that Sony saved the console industry last generation?sonicmj1

No, because Sony succeeded equally well during the PS1/N64 generation, and that success largely carried over to the 2001 era. Now, I would say that Sony probably saved the PS1/N64 generation, since Sega declined DRASTICALLY and the N64 sold 15 million fewer than the SNES. But even then, much of that decline can probably be attributed to direct competition from Sony. I don't think it can be reasonably claimed that the Wii is in direct competition with the 360 or PS3 to the point where it would steal customers to such a large degree, and certainly not to the same extent as the PS1 was to the N64 and Saturn. The fact that 360 sales were so low even before the Wii really began to make an impact points to this.

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sonicmj1

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#68 sonicmj1
Member since 2003 • 9130 Posts

[QUOTE="sonicmj1"]I don't. Most people don't get multiple consoles. The PS2's success should show that. Over 100 million PS2s were sold, relative to about 45 million Xboxes and Gamecubes. That means that at least half the market owned only one console. Very likely, the proportion is much, much higher. Why would things be different this time around?mjarantilla

I agree, most people only get one console. But I don't think that the people who only bought one console feel that they HAVE to buy a new console at all, especially when the only two alternatives don't suit their preferences.

Now, they MAY have started buying after a price drop to sub-$300, but by then I think most will have been weaned off any desire at all for a new system. It would have to be an impulse buy at that point, and for many folks, $300 is still too high for an impulse buy, especially if the price drop occurs two or three years from now when the systems won't seem nearly as impressive.

There'd probably be some hit to the market if there were no Wii (after all, one of the three providers would have disappeared), but I can't imagine those 400,000 consumers a month would disappear altogether. All game consoles fulfill a similar function. For many, if they need that niche filled, the 360 and PS3 do serve as substitutes for the Wii, albeit imperfect ones.sonicmj1

I imagine they simply wouldn't buy into the next generation at all. That's a possibility no one really talks about, even though it's perfectly evident from still-high PS2 sales. People who buy the Wii on its own simply aren't looking for a "next gen" experience, and I think they'd be perfectly happy to content themselves with the PS2. Even if devs stopped or slowed down making games for it, there are still thousands of existing games to choose from.

Still, you missed my other point. Considering the PS2 was about as successful as the Wii in terms of console sales, with a lineup of approximately equal strength, dominating its competitors to a similar degree, would you say that Sony saved the console industry last generation?sonicmj1

No, because Sony succeeded equally well during the PS1/N64 generation, and that success largely carried over to the 2001 era. Now, I would say that Sony probably saved the PS1/N64 generation, since Sega declined DRASTICALLY and the N64 sold 15 million fewer than the SNES. But even then, much of that decline can probably be attributed to direct competition from Sony. I don't think it can be reasonably claimed that the Wii is in direct competition with the 360 or PS3, and certainly not to the same extent as the PS1 was to the N64 and Saturn.

Breaking up quotes is helpful for reading, but it makes it so much harder to reply...

To an extent, I agree with you. Nintendo is occupying a niche that wasn't catered to as directly by their competitors. It was a really smart move for them, as it allowed them to capture a market more massive than Sony and Microsoft realized. If they weren't there, there would be a number of people who would choose not to move on to the next generation, or at least would delay that shift for a long time. The market might face a hit as a result. Then again, a fairly major competitor would have completely vanished, which would be strange enough in itself. Where would those Nintendo games go?

But the people who would forgo the next generation are just a portion of the group that bought Wiis. There are also plenty who wanted the next cool console, and they'd get something else if the Wii wasn't there. The 360 wouldn't be selling 180,000 units, and the PS3 80,000, with no other competition whatsoever. The people who didn't get Wiis would still want games.

I don't see Sony as having saved the market, even in that situation, because they just did what they had to do to get money. Filling the right niche at the right time definitely helps the market, but it's difficult to say what would have happened had they not been there. If there hadn't been a Playstation there for people to buy, they still would have wanted videogames.

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Dopemonk736

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#69 Dopemonk736
Member since 2006 • 2731 Posts
[QUOTE="ButtonBacon"]

*throws Brick*

*leaves thread*

Liquid-GEAR

*catches brick, builds cage, throws you incage with lions*

Build a cage with one brick? And plus, aren't cages made with metal?

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omarguy01

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#70 omarguy01
Member since 2004 • 8139 Posts
stop looking at past gens for predictions for the future. thins are very different this time around and if you are expecting gt5 to do for ps3what gt3 did for ps2 then you will be disappointed
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mjarantilla

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#71 mjarantilla
Member since 2002 • 15721 Posts
Breaking up quotes is helpful for reading, but it makes it so much harder to reply...sonicmj1

Deal with it! :P

But the people who would forgo the next generation are just a portion of the group that bought Wiis. There are also plenty who wanted the next cool console, and they'd get something else if the Wii wasn't there. The 360 wouldn't be selling 180,000 units, and the PS3 80,000, with no other competition whatsoever. The people who didn't get Wiis would still want games.sonicmj1

I'm saying that the number of Wii-buyers who would've been willing to wait is much higher than the number of Wi-buyers who feel like they have to get a new system. I know the 360 and PS3 would benefit from the Wii's absence, but not by 400,000. I think it would be closer to a 100,000 collective improvement between the two of them (so, 220,000 for the 360, 140,000 for the PS3 or something), but I don't see them suddenly leaping up to 300,000 monthly sales apiece.

I don't see Sony as having saved the market, even in that situation, because they just did what they had to do to get money. Filling the right niche at the right time definitely helps the market, but it's difficult to say what would have happened had they not been there. If there hadn't been a Playstation there for people to buy, they still would have wanted videogames.sonicmj1

Like I said, the N64 and PS1 were in much closer and more direct competition than the Wii is with the PS3 and 360. The PS1 did fill a niche--the same niche which dominates video games today--but I don't think the N64's and Saturn's respective audiences would've shrankcompared to the SNES and Genesis if the PS1 didn't exist. I think gaming would've continued on a flat line, and then shrank in the generation afterward. So I don't know if I'd say the PS1 saved gaming either, because there's no clear evidence that the direct successors of the previous generation--the N64 and Saturn--were on declining paths. THIS time, however, I DO think that the PS3 and 360 present a declining path compared to their predecessors.

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Pariah_001

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#72 Pariah_001
Member since 2003 • 4850 Posts

Even before the price drop the PS2 was abouthalf the price of the PS3. As much as you want to deny it, price has an influence in sales, as do bundles. People like to save money. Also, I'd like to point out that GT3 was a technical achievement at the time, but today its gameplay wouldn't hold up well. If GT5 doesn't make some changes to the formula its just going to be GT4 with prettier graphics. The point is, GT3 had that wow factor that led to a lot of sales and it was on the cheapest console to boot.DrinkDuff

It was not the cheepest console--Please try to understand this: $300 was felt to be an obscene amount of money to pay for the PS2. So what if the PS3's more expensive right now? It was even around back then, so it has now frame of reference.

It was more expensive than the GC--Whose grpahical capability was far superior to the PS2, which pretty much throws your 'revolutionary version of GT inspired sales' out the window.

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Hitamaru-homia

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#73 Hitamaru-homia
Member since 2006 • 2046 Posts
0.o Gran Tursimo> Forza... >.> i mean FOrza is hot as hell but it has nothing on GT... Nothing.
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TBoogy

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#74 TBoogy
Member since 2007 • 4382 Posts

[QUOTE="DrinkDuff"]Even before the price drop the PS2 was abouthalf the price of the PS3. As much as you want to deny it, price has an influence in sales, as do bundles. People like to save money. Also, I'd like to point out that GT3 was a technical achievement at the time, but today its gameplay wouldn't hold up well. If GT5 doesn't make some changes to the formula its just going to be GT4 with prettier graphics. The point is, GT3 had that wow factor that led to a lot of sales and it was on the cheapest console to boot.Pariah_001

It was not the cheepest console--Please try to understand this: $300 was felt to be an obscene amount of money to pay for the PS2. So what if the PS3's more expensive right now? It was even around back then, so it has now frame of reference.

It was more expensive than the GC--Whose grpahical capability was far superior to the PS2, which pretty much throws your 'revolutionary version of GT inspired sales' out the window.

$300 was not an obscene amount to pay for the ps2, and people didn't see it that way (I know, I sold them at launch). Heck, my mother paid $220 for an atari 2600 back in 1978 from JC Penny. With the ps2 being the same price as a dvd player at launch, people saw it as a steal.

A for your second point, didn't GT3 come out before the Gamecube? And definately before the Gamecube started to outshine the ps2 graphically.

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Shadow_op

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#75 Shadow_op
Member since 2006 • 4566 Posts

So it broke down so often people had to buy other copies?

It has similarities with both the 360 AND the PS2!

Insta-Win!

**End sarcasm**

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L_G_X

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#76 L_G_X
Member since 2007 • 542 Posts
errr bat Gt5 sox nd brnout ownz0rz?
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manningbowl135

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#77 manningbowl135
Member since 2006 • 7457 Posts
14.85 million people bought it. 10 million people had a PS2. So 4.85 million people bought a PS2 game without a PS2?
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Pariah_001

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#78 Pariah_001
Member since 2003 • 4850 Posts

$300 was not an obscene amount to pay for the ps2, and people didn't see it that way (I know, I sold them at launch). Heck, my mother paid $220 for an atari 2600 back in 1978 from JC Penny. With the ps2 being the same price as a dvd player at launch, people saw it as a steal.TBoogy

You must have been selling to a rather wealthy community because almost no one my brother sold them to was happy with the price.

You are right though that the DVD player was an effective incentive.

A for your second point, didn't GT3 come out before the Gamecube? And definately before the Gamecube started to outshine the ps2 graphically.

The GC's specs were out before its release. And even after release, and better presentation, it's sales still didn't pick up.

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usmcjdk6

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#79 usmcjdk6
Member since 2007 • 1240 Posts

Wasn't GT3 bundled with the PS2?

LOL @ bundling a game and claiming ownage.

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NSR34GTR

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#80 NSR34GTR
Member since 2007 • 13179 Posts
the GT series are great
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AfterShafter

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#81 AfterShafter
Member since 2002 • 7175 Posts
Is GT5 being bundled with the PS3 like GT3 was with PS2? It has always been debatable as to whether GT3 moved PS2's, or PS2's moved GT3 units.
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jasonharris48

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#82 jasonharris48
Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts
[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]Gran Turismo does well, it doesn't mean it's a good game. I like to look at Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, and Kanye West when it comes to things like this. Success =/= Greatness for anyone except the company and person pushin the mediocrity.Liquid-GEAR
Well I happen to think its a great game..and 50 cent sux.. Kanye is MUCH better. Creative atleast

I agree
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Liquid-GEAR

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#83 Liquid-GEAR
Member since 2007 • 1574 Posts
Hi guys, how did the arguements, bashing, self-ownage and damage control go? :D