Online voice chat irony!

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="x360owna"] I find the deeper irony that the United States wouldn't exist if it wasn't for France. So while you were all smug about your nation saving them from foreign invaders (when it worked in concert with the Soviet Union, Great Britain, Free France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc), they could sit smugly in the knowledge the United States would likely not exist as you know it if it weren't for France. [QUOTE="X360PS3AMD05"]Funny, the Japanese were fine with us dropping the bombs, they held no bad feelings about it. IAmLegend7

I'm replying to your second quote. I don't know what you're talking about when you say that the "American education system conditions people to believe the use of atomic weapons was morally justified." First off, having actually grown up in the United States and attending a public high school, I can tell you that what you just said is 100% false. As a matter of fact, when our US History teacher did the subject of the bombings at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, he had other US history classes join us for a debate on whether or not it was justified.

Stop spewing forth baseless comments such as that one, because you come off as an ignoramus.

Unfortunately, I wish it was just me spewing generalisations, but the majority of Americans are in favour of the decision. Of course, the younger you get, the less likely you were to agree with the decision, but it still reflects that the incident received favourable treatment post-WW2.

[QUOTE="MizFitAwesome"]

[QUOTE="x360owna"] You do realize how many millions of people would have died in a full scale invasion of Japan, right?htotheo

Sorry, but that's just a sad rationalization for what was one of the US's darkest moments. Yes dropping a nuclear weapon on innocent people was wrong, but htotheo what exactly were we supposed to do after Pearl Harbor?

I am not saying that America should not have joined the war after Pearl Harbour, i am saying the use of nuclear weapons was jsut unnecassary as the military jsut wished to test their new weapons on actualy targets (hiroshima and Negasaki are still feeling the effect of the dirty bomb - radiation).

A common misconception was that a full scale invasion was the only way to end the war, it wasnt neither was the bomb. The war in Europe and across the world had ceased and Japan's territory was all lost. The Japanese mentality as witnessed through kamakazi pilots did carry over to the negotiation table but not to the extent alot of people think. Talks were underway and Japan was ravaged by the war already. the bomb dropped on Hiroshima was unnecassary as talks were still underway and the negasaki bomb was jsut overkill for my nuclear testing.

Not enough diplomatic means and avenues were used or given enough time to work therefore the two bombs were dropped on innocent civilians. That is why the bomb was unnecassary.

Fair enough and as an American, I agree our use of nuclear bombs was unneeded and a dark blot on our history.

Part of the joy of freedom is the ability to disagree with our government from time to time...

Hey now guys, don't forget the MASSIVE role us New Zealanders had in World War II hahahaha

Heck yes, Maori Batallion.

To the post above, I think It's more the media conditioning people to believe such stuff. America is in control of the media and most (good) films therefore they can make out what they want, which is what happens in most american war films they are led out to believe that they won the war on their own and if it wasn't for them everyone else would be living under the control of nazi's. ThatsSimtastic

Actually, it's one political party that controls the media. Some of us ignore the media ...

[QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]To the post above, I think It's more the media conditioning people to believe such stuff. America is in control of the media and most (good) films therefore they can make out what they want, which is what happens in most american war films they are led out to believe that they won the war on their own and if it wasn't for them everyone else would be living under the control of nazi's. MizFitAwesome

Actually, it's one political party that controls the media. Some of us ignore the media ...

I find it ironic that the guys were saying how much they hated americans and they were playing on an american made console. I'm not going to give my opinion on how I feel about the importance of certain country in both world wars as I have learned it doesn't lead to anything good. I respect all opionions and hope this topic doesn't get out of context.ForsakenWicked

Technically, the 360 is a Chinese made console. An American company just stamped their branding on it.

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point 6 days later Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900Link.The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000. Link

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

[QUOTE="ForsakenWicked"]I find it ironic that the guys were saying how much they hated americans and they were playing on an american made console. I'm not going to give my opinion on how I feel about the importance of certain country in both world wars as I have learned it doesn't lead to anything good. I respect all opionions and hope this topic doesn't get out of context.Shewgenja

Technically, the 360 is a Chinese made console. An American company just stamped their branding on it.

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900. The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000.

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

GreyFoXX4

having grown up in germany as well as in the states i can tell you guys that i can relate to both argumenting groups because i do have a certain patriotism towards the US but i also know that the war was not as one sided as it is made out to be in the US.... like lots of you have mentioned hiroshima and nagasaki but i think none of you have ever heard of what happened to dresden?

Death tolls by battles fromWWI and WWII

I find it funny how americans can be so arrogent and think they single handedly won WW2, and WW1 for that matter.ThatsSimtastic

[QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]I find it funny how americans can be so arrogent and think they single handedly won WW2, and WW1 for that matter.gameofthering

I think the death tolls I posted clearly shows that we Americans didn't win WW2 or WW1 single handedly. But the tide did turn when we joined the battle. And to say other wise it is arrogance on your part.

I'm not saying there's only one type of american but there's a reason this was made.

[QUOTE="gameofthering"]

[QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]I find it funny how americans can be so arrogent and think they single handedly won WW2, and WW1 for that matter.GreyFoXX4

I think the death tolls I posted clearly shows that we Americans didn't win WW2 or WW1 single handedly. But the tide did turn when we joined the battle. And to say other wise it is arrogance on your part.

So... all the soldiers who fought and died in 39-41 did nothing? If they didn't hold their line world war 2 could of been a whole different story. Not because of America, it's the soldiers who roughed it out through the hard times when the momentum was in Germans favor who should be recognized instead its the Americans who came in 2 year later and took out the scraps..

This is not a swip at american people by the way.

And I hope, I hope You've forgotten Australia and are getting them mixed up with Britain in all of this. Because Australian's played a key role in North Africa.

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point 6 days later Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900Link.The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000. Link

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

GreyFoXX4

Yes! Lets!

This is why people say the American education system blows. They teach you half truths and brain wash you into thinking America is right, America is good, America can do no wrong. I'm going to give you something that your country wont ever do: A real history lesson.

Treaty of versailles; I don't expect you to have heard of it but it was a treaty written up at the end of WW1 (That's the war you was late to) it put military restrictions on germany. Frankly germany should of been done and dusted there and then and it was a mistake by the British for not dealing with them properly there and then but you can't blame them, they didn't sit on there hands all throughout the war.

Just to be clear though: You never stepped into that war to help anyone just in case your schoolings taught you that you was the heroes there as well; The British provided evidence of germany attempting to gain alliances with Japan and Mexico for an invasion of America. You only stepped in to save your own behinds and later on you'd thank Britain by not helping once again in WW2.

Anywho a council was made up to enforce the treaty made up of the powers at the time; Including America Tho admittedly you didn't hold the same status as the rest.

Now onto the good stuff. I meantioned the treaty of versailles and military restrictions. Well germany decided to ignore it and broke it several times. America and Britain being the two powers at the time decided to do nothing. Germany invaded austria. America and Britain do nothing.

Germany invades Poland and both France and Britain honouring their allies give them a choice they can withdraw or face war. Germany refused. War broke out. Bloody millions died and America sat on it's hands. Only getting involved when it directly effected them. Despite the British helping them in the past. Despite being apart of the council. That's loyalty for you.

So before you start looking on the bright side. Figure out how many wouldn't of died if America and Britain had stepped in when they broke the treaty in the first place.

You lot are all for attacking third world countries that generally can't fight back but when it comes down to serious matters you've got a proven track record of being cowards and refusing to get involved and a lot of people have died needlessly because of it.

[QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]

So... all the soldiers who fought and died in 39-41 did nothing? If they didn't hold their line world war 2 could of been a whole different story. Not because of America, it's the soldiers who roughed it out through the hard times when the momentum was in Germans favor who should be recognized instead its the Americans who came in 2 year later and took out the scraps..

This is not a swip at american people by the way.

And I hope, I hope You've forgotten Australia and are getting them mixed up with Britain in all of this. Because Australian's played a key role in North Africa.

UnamedThing

The tide of the war turned during the battle of Britain. That attempt at invading where the British where outnumbered 2:1. You know that one? I believe they won and pushed htem back. Then i believe the russians started to push germany back as well and was the first to reach berlin. Not any Americans. You came in late and cleaned up scraps. Don't kid yourself into thinking you did much else. Germany had lost, youi only sped the process up.

[QUOTE="GreyFoXX4"]

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900. The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000.

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

bleehum

In 1946 (only one year after, to quell counter arguments about 1960s revisionists) the Strategic Bombing Survey, which was very positive on the role of aerial bombardment in the European and Pacific theatres, judged:

Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.

In addition, Albert Einstein, Leo Szilard, Dwight Eisenhower, General MacArthur, all disagreed to its use. The later two were perhaps the most instrumental US personnel in WW2, yet suddenly their opinions were disregarded when it came to this tactical decision.

Didn't the American D day landing only just succeed or am i remembering incorrectly?hoosier7

[QUOTE="hoosier7"]Didn't the American D day landing only just succeed or am i remembering incorrectly?Danm_999

[QUOTE="UnamedThing"][QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]

So... all the soldiers who fought and died in 39-41 did nothing? If they didn't hold their line world war 2 could of been a whole different story. Not because of America, it's the soldiers who roughed it out through the hard times when the momentum was in Germans favor who should be recognized instead its the Americans who came in 2 year later and took out the scraps..

This is not a swip at american people by the way.

And I hope, I hope You've forgotten Australia and are getting them mixed up with Britain in all of this. Because Australian's played a key role in North Africa.

The tide of the war turned during the battle of Britain. That attempt at invading where the British where outnumbered 2:1. You know that one? I believe they won and pushed htem back. Then i believe the russians started to push germany back as well and was the first to reach berlin. Not any Americans. You came in late and cleaned up scraps. Don't kid yourself into thinking you did much else. Germany had lost, youi only sped the process up.

[QUOTE="GreyFoXX4"]

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point 6 days later Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900Link.The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000. Link

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

CreepyBacon

Yes! Lets!

This is why people say the American education system blows. They teach you half truths and brain wash you into thinking America is right, America is good, America can do no wrong. I'm going to give you something that your country wont ever do: A real history lesson.

Treaty of versailles; I don't expect you to have heard of it but it was a treaty written up at the end of WW1 (That's the war you was late to) it put military restrictions on germany. Frankly germany should of been done and dusted there and then and it was a mistake by the British for not dealing with them properly there and then but you can't blame them, they didn't sit on there hands all throughout the war.

Just to be clear though: You never stepped into that war to help anyone just in case your schoolings taught you that you was the heroes there as well; The British provided evidence of germany attempting to gain alliances with Japan and Mexico for an invasion of America. You only stepped in to save your own behinds and later on you'd thank Britain by not helping once again in WW2.

Anywho a council was made up to enforce the treaty made up of the powers at the time; Including America Tho admittedly you didn't hold the same status as the rest.

Now onto the good stuff. I meantioned the treaty of versailles and military restrictions. Well germany decided to ignore it and broke it several times. America and Britain being the two powers at the time decided to do nothing. Germany invaded austria. America and Britain do nothing.

Germany invades Poland and both France and Britain honouring their allies give them a choice they can withdraw or face war. Germany refused. War broke out. Bloody millions died and America sat on it's hands. Only getting involved when it directly effected them. Despite the British helping them in the past. Despite being apart of the council. That's loyalty for you.

So before you start looking on the bright side. Figure out how many wouldn't of died if America and Britain had stepped in when they broke the treaty in the first place.

You lot are all for attacking third world countries that generally can't fight back but when it comes down to serious matters you've got a proven track record of being cowards and refusing to get involved and a lot of people have died needlessly because of it.

EDIT

[QUOTE="CreepyBacon"]

[QUOTE="GreyFoXX4"]

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point 6 days later Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900Link.The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000. Link

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

IAmLegend7

Yes! Lets!

This is why people say the American education system blows. They teach you half truths and brain wash you into thinking America is right, America is good, America can do no wrong. I'm going to give you something that your country wont ever do: A real history lesson.

Treaty of versailles; I don't expect you to have heard of it but it was a treaty written up at the end of WW1 (That's the war you was late to) it put military restrictions on germany. Frankly germany should of been done and dusted there and then and it was a mistake by the British for not dealing with them properly there and then but you can't blame them, they didn't sit on there hands all throughout the war.

Just to be clear though: You never stepped into that war to help anyone just in case your schoolings taught you that you was the heroes there as well; The British provided evidence of germany attempting to gain alliances with Japan and Mexico for an invasion of America. You only stepped in to save your own behinds and later on you'd thank Britain by not helping once again in WW2.

Anywho a council was made up to enforce the treaty made up of the powers at the time; Including America Tho admittedly you didn't hold the same status as the rest.

Now onto the good stuff. I meantioned the treaty of versailles and military restrictions. Well germany decided to ignore it and broke it several times. America and Britain being the two powers at the time decided to do nothing. Germany invaded austria. America and Britain do nothing.

Germany invades Poland and both France and Britain honouring their allies give them a choice they can withdraw or face war. Germany refused. War broke out. Bloody millions died and America sat on it's hands. Only getting involved when it directly effected them. Despite the British helping them in the past. Despite being apart of the council. That's loyalty for you.

So before you start looking on the bright side. Figure out how many wouldn't of died if America and Britain had stepped in when they broke the treaty in the first place.

You lot are all for attacking third world countries that generally can't fight back but when it comes down to serious matters you've got a proven track record of being cowards and refusing to get involved and a lot of people have died needlessly because of it.

Did you seriously just call Churchill a coward :?

"Did you seriously just call Churchill a coward "

Sorry, I put Churchill instead of Chamberlain. I edited my post.

"Did you seriously just call Churchill a coward "

Sorry, I put Churchill instead of Chamberlain. I edited my post.

IAmLegend7

[QUOTE="CreepyBacon"]

[QUOTE="GreyFoXX4"]

We do know that the U.S. wasn't in WWII really until Pearl Harbor right? And Japan was planning a 3 prong attack, 1 prong being the U.S. in which wasn't even in the war yet until the attack in 1941. InMay 1945 Germany surrendered and in Aug of 1945 Japan still would not surrender on Aug 6 the hiroshima bomb was dropped, Japan still didn't surrender and on Aug 9 Nagasaki was bombed at this point 6 days later Japan surrendered. So Japan wasn't going to surrender for anything so a actual land attack would have killed many more people easily.

WWII death toll estimation of all Civilian and Military: Axis=8,268,000 Allied forces=48,238,700,Civilian death tolls for Axis=1,686,000 Civiliam Death toll for Allied forces= 27,372,900Link.The total deaths from nuclear attacks on Japan=approximately 200,000. Link

So in the end I think it could and easily be said that millions more would have died ON BOTH sides if an all out land attack on Japan would have taken place.

So I would like to point out that 27 million innocent allied civilians died because of the axis in WWII compared to 1.5 million for the axis civilians. Germany, Italy, Romania, Japan, Hungary, Finland and Austria. So lets put that Dark day for America in prospective here shall we.

IAmLegend7

Yes! Lets!

This is why people say the American education system blows. They teach you half truths and brain wash you into thinking America is right, America is good, America can do no wrong. I'm going to give you something that your country wont ever do: A real history lesson.

Treaty of versailles; I don't expect you to have heard of it but it was a treaty written up at the end of WW1 (That's the war you was late to) it put military restrictions on germany. Frankly germany should of been done and dusted there and then and it was a mistake by the British for not dealing with them properly there and then but you can't blame them, they didn't sit on there hands all throughout the war.

Just to be clear though: You never stepped into that war to help anyone just in case your schoolings taught you that you was the heroes there as well; The British provided evidence of germany attempting to gain alliances with Japan and Mexico for an invasion of America. You only stepped in to save your own behinds and later on you'd thank Britain by not helping once again in WW2.

Anywho a council was made up to enforce the treaty made up of the powers at the time; Including America Tho admittedly you didn't hold the same status as the rest.

Now onto the good stuff. I meantioned the treaty of versailles and military restrictions. Well germany decided to ignore it and broke it several times. America and Britain being the two powers at the time decided to do nothing. Germany invaded austria. America and Britain do nothing.

Germany invades Poland and both France and Britain honouring their allies give them a choice they can withdraw or face war. Germany refused. War broke out. Bloody millions died and America sat on it's hands. Only getting involved when it directly effected them. Despite the British helping them in the past. Despite being apart of the council. That's loyalty for you.

So before you start looking on the bright side. Figure out how many wouldn't of died if America and Britain had stepped in when they broke the treaty in the first place.

You lot are all for attacking third world countries that generally can't fight back but when it comes down to serious matters you've got a proven track record of being cowards and refusing to get involved and a lot of people have died needlessly because of it.

EDIT

[QUOTE="IAmLegend7"]

"Did you seriously just call Churchill a coward "

Sorry, I put Churchill instead of Chamberlain. I edited my post.

Danm_999

[QUOTE="Danm_999"]

[QUOTE="IAmLegend7"]

"Did you seriously just call Churchill a coward "

Sorry, I put Churchill instead of Chamberlain. I edited my post.

mattacular

Well, after Singapore fell not only was the British navy unable to defend Australia, Churchill stopped Australian and New Zealand military forces returning home. They were kept in North Africa and even used in Burma to stop Japanese penetration into India. It was at this point Australia ceased its alignment with Britain and the United States used it as a base.

No harm done by the end of the war, but Churchill came off looking like a massive traitor in Oceania.

[QUOTE="IAmLegend7"]

[QUOTE="CreepyBacon"]

Yes! Lets!

This is why people say the American education system blows. They teach you half truths and brain wash you into thinking America is right, America is good, America can do no wrong. I'm going to give you something that your country wont ever do: A real history lesson.

Treaty of versailles; I don't expect you to have heard of it but it was a treaty written up at the end of WW1 (That's the war you was late to) it put military restrictions on germany. Frankly germany should of been done and dusted there and then and it was a mistake by the British for not dealing with them properly there and then but you can't blame them, they didn't sit on there hands all throughout the war.

Just to be clear though: You never stepped into that war to help anyone just in case your schoolings taught you that you was the heroes there as well; The British provided evidence of germany attempting to gain alliances with Japan and Mexico for an invasion of America. You only stepped in to save your own behinds and later on you'd thank Britain by not helping once again in WW2.

Anywho a council was made up to enforce the treaty made up of the powers at the time; Including America Tho admittedly you didn't hold the same status as the rest.

Now onto the good stuff. I meantioned the treaty of versailles and military restrictions. Well germany decided to ignore it and broke it several times. America and Britain being the two powers at the time decided to do nothing. Germany invaded austria. America and Britain do nothing.

Germany invades Poland and both France and Britain honouring their allies give them a choice they can withdraw or face war. Germany refused. War broke out. Bloody millions died and America sat on it's hands. Only getting involved when it directly effected them. Despite the British helping them in the past. Despite being apart of the council. That's loyalty for you.

So before you start looking on the bright side. Figure out how many wouldn't of died if America and Britain had stepped in when they broke the treaty in the first place.

You lot are all for attacking third world countries that generally can't fight back but when it comes down to serious matters you've got a proven track record of being cowards and refusing to get involved and a lot of people have died needlessly because of it.

mattacular

EDIT

I thought this was system wars, not history wars.

To the post above, I think It's more the media conditioning people to believe such stuff. America is in control of the media and most (good) films therefore they can make out what they want, which is what happens in most american war films they are led out to believe that they won the war on their own and if it wasn't for them everyone else would be living under the control of nazi's. ThatsSimtastic

An example of Big Brother animosity if I have ever seen one. Big brothers little brother can't handle the kids in his own class so big brother helps him and little brother grows up holding a grudge against his big brother because of his OWN short comings. Or big brother tends to his own business and gets accused by his little brother for not helping enough.

This is why Americans don't give a crap what other countries think, cause NO matter what were dann if we do and dann if we don't.

An example of Big Brother animosity if I have ever seen one. Big brothers little brother can't handle the kids in his own class so big brother helps him and little brother grows up holding a grudge against his big brother because of his OWN short comings. Or big brother tends to his own business and gets accused by his little brother for not helping enough.

This is why Americans don't give a crap what other countries think, cause NO matter what were dann if we do and dann if we don't.

GreyFoXX4

[QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]To the post above, I think It's more the media conditioning people to believe such stuff. America is in control of the media and most (good) films therefore they can make out what they want, which is what happens in most american war films they are led out to believe that they won the war on their own and if it wasn't for them everyone else would be living under the control of nazi's. II_Seraphim_II

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="ThatsSimtastic"]To the post above, I think It's more the media conditioning people to believe such stuff. America is in control of the media and most (good) films therefore they can make out what they want, which is what happens in most american war films they are led out to believe that they won the war on their own and if it wasn't for them everyone else would be living under the control of nazi's. porzdeadline

[QUOTE="porzdeadline"][QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"] So true. Russia won World War 2. If it wasnt for Russia, it would be a very different world today.hoosier7

Yeh, but they did win World War 2, despite their losses they still had the shear numbers to defeat Nazi germany no matter what.

[QUOTE="mattacular"]

[QUOTE="Danm_999"] Actually, there are some Allied countries which would not disagree with putting down Churchill.

Well, after Singapore fell not only was the British navy unable to defend Australia, Churchill stopped Australian and New Zealand military forces returning home. They were kept in North Africa and even used in Burma to stop Japanese penetration into India. It was at this point Australia ceased its alignment with Britain and the United States used it as a base.

No harm done by the end of the war, but Churchill came off looking like a massive traitor in Oceania.

An example of Big Brother animosity if I have ever seen one. Big brothers little brother can't handle the kids in his own class so big brother helps him and little brother grows up holding a grudge against his big brother because of his OWN short comings. Or big brother tends to his own business and gets accused by his little brother for not helping enough.

This is why Americans don't give a crap what other countries think, cause NO matter what were dann if we do and dann if we don't.

I find it funny how americans can be so arrogent and think they single handedly won WW2, and WW1 for that matter.ThatsSimtastic

Well, you were losing until we entered the war.

One word: Hiroshima

World war 2 started in 1939, America joined the war in 1941, thats 2 years of people fighting and dieing before america joined the war, same story with WW1. I'm just saying americans have a habbit of joining wars late and trying to make it look like they saved the world.ThatsSimtastic

Exactly. In those two years, the allies utterly failed to turn the tide of war. It was not until the US joined that the tide turned. Without the support of America's massive industrial output, both Britain & the USSR would have collapsed in short order.

I bet you don't even know what the "lend-lease" program was, do you?

The US did, indeed, save the world from the Axis.

EDIT: On top of that, it was American financing that rebuilt Europe & Japan after the war. Had it not been for the Marshall plan, the Spanish & Portuguese would have been the most prosperous people in post-war Europe. The Marshall plan was so massive that Britian didn't get around to repaying its share until the 1970's.