Pachter: Wii U will finish 'distant third' - behind PS4, Xbox One

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Yes, barely anyone wanting a WiiU over the PS4 and X1 (or even 360 & PS3) at this moment really matters... ;)

Capitan_Kid

I'm fine with that. The last thing I want is a Nintendo console becoming more and more like PS4 and X1.

If Nintendo is in a market leading position, or at least a relevant player, then it should be on their terms (Wii). I.e. a game system where CoD merely sells 1 million units and GTA is not even present. 

It'll either be a niche, Nintendo 1st party box. Or a Wii type phenomenon. What I wish will never, ever happen, is for Nintendo to release a dudebro-box. I prefer Mario and Just Dance. Happy, all inclusive games with vibrant colors. Halo of Forza just make me puke.

I would argue that to make the platform viable for western-centric 3rd party support, indeed means alot of tables will have to be up-ended at Nintendo HQ.

They're gonna start by creating and marketing games like Wave Race, 1080 Snowboarding, Star Fox, a Retro Studios new FPS IP. And start doing things like using realistic artstyles in Zelda, complete with hollywood voice acting.

That needs to happen in order to create a new perception that Nintendo is "edgy". 

They literally tried this strategy with Gamecube (remember voice acting and cutscenes in Mario Sunshine?) and the result was Yamauchi appointed Iwata, and the board probably decided to never appeal to the dudebros again.

So, who is going to be buying wii-u when it receives its inevitable price drop? Core gamers are eyeing next gen systems that will undoubtedly provide loads of great games(thank you 3rd party support), and casuals are more likely to buy a $99.99-$149.99 360/ps3(you know it's comin' ) than a $250-$300 wii-u. It'll be interesting to see how the market respond.MFDOOM1983

Nintendo's Wii U strategy, as I see it:

• Create a family-friendly image
• Core Nintendo IPs
• Appeal mainly to Japan

I feel that Nintendo's 1st party library shows this is clearly the case. Pikmin and Donkey Kong sell relatively well over there The Japanese prefer the new 3D Mario direction. The partnership games are all Japanese-minded. I'm pretty sure we're getting a "Zelda Yarn" or so, because in Japan they prefer the quirky handheld Zeldas over realistic Link.

There is one piece of the puzzle missing, and Iwata re-assured that it's coming:

• Blue ocean games, differentiation through gamepad.

There will be a Pokemon NFC game along the lines of Skylanders. You will see entirely new types of games, for example a game based on the idea of asymmetric gameplay.

Now all Nintendo needs to do is to provide a strong summer Nintendo Direct, hopefully they saved a megaton announcement, $50 price cut and begin a huge marketing campaign around the time Pikmin 3 launches in August.

Momentum will be created with the fall lineup, and then spike with DKC 5 / 3D World at holidays. Mario Kart 8 will sustain said momentum, early 2014.

If Nintendo makes the right moves, Wii U will turn around and become a viable platform.

So, who is going to be buying wii-u when it receives its inevitable price drop? Core gamers are eyeing next gen systems that will undoubtedly provide loads of great games(thank you 3rd party support), and casuals are more likely to buy a $99.99-$149.99 360/ps3(you know it's comin' ) than a $250-$300 wii-u. It'll be interesting to see how the market respond.MFDOOM1983

It is an interesting case to be sure. I think they can stand their own though tbh if they get that price drop and market there games accordingly. Since the PS3 and such will probably not be marketed to high heaven with strong new software it will probably not outshadow the WiiU too much. Since their strong game grace period is coming to a close at least for now (cross gen games will still come but the focus will be elsewhere) they will be relying on very late buyers by banking on the existing, but large older game library as the incentive for sales. The WiiU may gravitate toward its own customer base who likes the more widely appealing and new safe titles coming from Nintendo. Price may factor a bunch for the older consoles but a new console may be good as well especially at a low price with something for everyone. As Desmonic said, the percieved price may be better or worse than we think, since its not easy to step outside of the echo chamber.

We will see what happens in the end.

In terms of sales, I don't see how this is exactly a bold claim. The WiiU is over a year old and still has a midling install base, little third party dev support, and people still barely know it exists.

Nintendo's success last generation has everything to do with Nintendo creating a strong brand in the Wii that was built upon the backs of "casual" gamers. Many of those gamers never ventured past titles like: Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Just Dance, and Guitar Hero. Nintendo has failed to build upon the Wii brand by creating something that most Wii gamers don't need or want. The WiiU is doomed because the WiiU doesn't have an audience. I think using the Wii brand for the WiiU was a terrible mistake.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Yes, barely anyone wanting a WiiU over the PS4 and X1 (or even 360 & PS3) at this moment really matters... ;)

SuperFlakeman

I'm fine with that. The last thing I want is a Nintendo console becoming more and more like PS4 and X1.

This is the smartest thing anyone has ever said on System Wars. I commend you.

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

SuperFlakeman

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

Douevenlift_bro

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

I don't get enough data from these numbers, but it really wouldn't surprise me that Ninty's conservative stance through out the years plus their handheld may have gotten them quite a bit of profit compared to the other guys at least when gaming is concerned.

LOL WHAT?!

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

Douevenlift_bro

I thought we agreed that Pachter is just a loser who gets paid to troll Nintendo fans.bbkkristian

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

Douevenlift_bro

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

Sony technically lost any profit they made on those two systems because of the PS3 and other products that also ate up their profits so that does not really matter anymore.

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

super600

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

Sony technically lost any profit they made on those two systems because of the PS3 and other products that also ate up their profits so that does not really matter anymore.

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]LOL WHAT?!

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

Capitan_Kid

Sony technically lost any profit they made on those two systems because of the PS3 and other products that also ate up their profits so that does not really matter anymore.

In unit sales that would be true. They kicked a whole lot of ass back then. Not sure on everything else like profit and such though, nor would I want to look at all the data. :P

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

AznbkdX

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

I don't get enough data from these numbers, but it really wouldn't surprise me that Ninty's conservative stance through out the years plus their handheld may have gotten them quite a bit of profit compared to the other guys at least when gaming is concerned.

Haha omgosh this chart is glorious to behold. And it shows what's really going on behind the scenes and what it takes to be TRULY successful.

Also, if you looked at this chart and can only come back with the response, "Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo."...then you either need your eyes checked or you need to go back and double check your 2nd grade diploma. Because there is a serious lack of common sense and elementary complrehension skills you are lacking.

This entire chart's purpose for existence is to show how Nintendo were the ones who "crushed" Sony (and MS) during the last two decades. Even the PS1 and PS2 (two systems I also enjoyed thoroughly mind you).

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

Douevenlift_bro

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

Actually it was the other way around.  Nintendo crushed Sony and (for the most part) still does.  

Selling more =/= more profitable.  The Gamecube was highly profitable for Nintendo.  Then when you factor in handheld sales as well as Nintendos killer software sales, you get the results in the graph above.

This is why I find it hilarious when people in System Wars think that Nintendo is failing and desperately need to go 3rd party when the truth is that out of the big 3, Nintendo is the last one that needs to go 3rd party.  They handle their business better than the others and its not even close.

[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]I thought we agreed that Pachter is just a loser who gets paid to troll Nintendo fans.razu2444

Nintendo will make a profit, make some great games, and keep on going for another 100 years. Sounds like a winning plan to me. (Since I get all 3 systems anyway I could not possibly care who wins as long as I get the best games on each!)

Pachter's prediction is: 1. Xbox One 2. PS4 3. Wii U Based on his reputation as a colossal failure, this means that the actual final standings will be 1. PS4 2. Wii U 3. Xbox One He will be wrong about all three places.PurpleMan5000

Pachter is a fool.  He may be correct in this case, but hes only telling us what seems to be obvious at the moment.

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

LOL WHAT?!

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

ConanTheStoner

Actually it was the other way around.  Nintendo crushed Sony and (for the most part) still does.  

Selling more =/= more profitable.  The Gamecube was highly profitable for Nintendo.  Then when you factor in handheld sales as well as Nintendos killer software sales, you get the results in the graph above.

This is why I find it hilarious when people in System Wars think that Nintendo is failing and desperately need to go 3rd party when the truth is that out of the big 3, Nintendo is the last one that needs to go 3rd party.  They handle their business better than the others and its not even close.

So true.

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

SuperFlakeman

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

g0ddyX

Keep moving those goal posts my friend.  

And no.  Its every gen.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/pachter-vita-will-rob-nintendo-market-share
Friday, July 1st 2011 at 3:49PM BST

"US analyst Michael Pachter believes that the PS Vita will achieve what the PSP did not and eat into Nintendo's handheld market share."

I'm having a blast here... from the past xD

So much gold to dig up.

That's what I'm thinking too, unless these secret new types of games Iwata has mentioned can stop it from happening.

All I do is play games.  Not do business, or anything like that.  Idgaf about the profit or market share or any other bullshit.

I care about one thing, and that's games, and the only thing that matters is if the games that are available are fun to play.  That's it, that's all that matters.  That's the only criteria I have for a "successful" console.

And frankly, I haven't had much fun with Nintendo's first party offerings since Mario Galaxy.

They need to rock the house next year with announcements and games. AS much as Im looking forward to X and Bayo 2, they cant do it alone.

Honestly, who cares about profits, and why do gamers use profit margins as a barometer to determine success?  Do you invest and hold shares, or do you game?  If you game, as a gamer, does Nintendo define success to you? If you do I'm happy for you, but from what I'm seeing they are currently an abject failure... 

You know a system's seriously lacking where it counts when its defenders resort to pulling out pie charts and statistics to support their point, especially from years past.

All I do is play games.  Not do business, or anything like that.  Idgaf about the profit or market share or any other bullshit.

I care about one thing, and that's games, and the only thing that matters is if the games that are available are fun to play.  That's it, that's all that matters.  That's the only criteria I have for a "successful" console.

And frankly, I haven't had much fun with Nintendo's first party offerings since Mario Galaxy.

MLBknights58

What's Pacther's batting average on predictions?

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Yes, barely anyone wanting a WiiU over the PS4 and X1 (or even 360 & PS3) at this moment really matters... ;)

SuperFlakeman

I'm fine with that. The last thing I want is a Nintendo console becoming more and more like PS4 and X1.

If Nintendo is in a market leading position, or at least a relevant player, then it should be on their terms (Wii). I.e. a game system where CoD merely sells 1 million units and GTA is not even present. 

It'll either be a niche, Nintendo 1st party box. Or a Wii type phenomenon. What I wish will never, ever happen, is for Nintendo to release a dudebro-box. I prefer Mario and Just Dance. Happy, all inclusive games with vibrant colors. Halo of Forza just make me puke.

People can use their tablets with the other next gen consoles. IMO, Nintendo needs to drop the tablet controller gimmick that isn't even getting used by games and sell the consoles at a cheaper price...superclocked

Honestly, who cares about profits, and why do gamers use profit margins as a barometer to determine success?  Do you invest and hold shares, or do you game?  If you game, as a gamer, does Nintendo define success to you? If you do I'm happy for you, but from what I'm seeing they are currently an abject failure... 

You know a system's seriously lacking where it counts when its defenders resort to pulling out pie charts and statistics to support their point, especially from years past.

MirkoS77

All I do is play games.  Not do business, or anything like that.  Idgaf about the profit or market share or any other bullshit.

I care about one thing, and that's games, and the only thing that matters is if the games that are available are fun to play.  That's it, that's all that matters.  That's the only criteria I have for a "successful" console.

And frankly, I haven't had much fun with Nintendo's first party offerings since Mario Galaxy.

MLBknights58

It's common sense to hope what you like sells enough to continue in its current form. Many are actively questioning Nintendo from a business perspective and asks for Iwata's resignation. But as sales data suggest, there is no reason for him to step down (yet).

Sales is a way to shut down detractors. I want DKC 5. You want Metroid Prime 4 (or a new IP). I win because sales, bitches. 

even Marcus Beer aka annoyed gamer ruled out nitendo as a competitive and a relevant player. Nobody cares for WiiU,not even mumsRatchet_Fan8

You spelled Nintendo wrong.

Marcus Beer is free to express his opinion. I don't know how relevant Nintendo will be with Wii U, as I don't have a crystal ball to determine how the upcoming big hitters will impact its sales.

The fact that Wii U is tanking currently is not indicative of its future, 3DS went through the exact same situation. I even linked a 2011 pachter quote where he said Vita would eat up a big portion of 3DS' marketshare (lol)

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Yes, barely anyone wanting a WiiU over the PS4 and X1 (or even 360 & PS3) at this moment really matters... ;)

Capitan_Kid

I'm fine with that. The last thing I want is a Nintendo console becoming more and more like PS4 and X1.

If Nintendo is in a market leading position, or at least a relevant player, then it should be on their terms (Wii). I.e. a game system where CoD merely sells 1 million units and GTA is not even present. 

It'll either be a niche, Nintendo 1st party box. Or a Wii type phenomenon. What I wish will never, ever happen, is for Nintendo to release a dudebro-box. I prefer Mario and Just Dance. Happy, all inclusive games with vibrant colors. Halo of Forza just make me puke.

Apparently, some think missing major 3rd party support and losing market share and brand recognition is a good thing...

Also, that chart cleverly omits the fall of hardware and software sales for Nintendo in recent times:

If 3DS and WiiU keep selling at the current rate, they won't nearly repeat the success of their predecessors. (especially WiiU which will get GameCube level numbers if it keeps selling as it does)

I would also be interested to see how that chart looked like would they not have the handheld market for themselves and to back their home systems with it.

All I do is play games.  Not do business, or anything like that.  Idgaf about the profit or market share or any other bullshit.

I care about one thing, and that's games, and the only thing that matters is if the games that are available are fun to play.  That's it, that's all that matters.  That's the only criteria I have for a "successful" console.

And frankly, I haven't had much fun with Nintendo's first party offerings since Mario Galaxy.

MLBknights58

I don't really care for sales either, still, lower sales mean less support, less brand recognition, less games in general.

It affects you in one form or another, if you are the system owner.

If nothing you can expect less support from the 3rd parties and less unique new IPs. (just the proven ones)

[QUOTE="Capitan_Kid"][QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

I'm fine with that. The last thing I want is a Nintendo console becoming more and more like PS4 and X1.

If Nintendo is in a market leading position, or at least a relevant player, then it should be on their terms (Wii). I.e. a game system where CoD merely sells 1 million units and GTA is not even present. 

It'll either be a niche, Nintendo 1st party box. Or a Wii type phenomenon. What I wish will never, ever happen, is for Nintendo to release a dudebro-box. I prefer Mario and Just Dance. Happy, all inclusive games with vibrant colors. Halo of Forza just make me puke.

nameless12345

Apparently, some think missing major 3rd party support and losing market share and brand recognition is a good thing...

Also, that chart cleverly omits the fall of hardware and software sales for Nintendo in recent times:

If 3DS and WiiU keep selling at the current rate, they won't nearly repeat the success of their predecessors. (especially WiiU which will get GameCube level numbers if it keeps selling as it does)

I would also be interested to see how that chart looked like would they not have the handheld market for themselves and to back their home systems with it.

This isn't what I have been arguing. The decline is true and a reality. My point is, if they end up selling decently and make a profit in the end, then we can continue in the same path and not change Nintendo. Maybe I wasn't clear enough? 

I don't want Nintendo to implement the changes you are suggesting. I like their current trajectory of evolution, and if they can sustain a business based on their model, that's fantastic.

What I don't want is a company that chases maximum possible sales. Like I said before, if Nintendo is market leader, it should be on their own terms (Wii) and not in a form that internet message boards want. If Nintendo remains niche in the home console branch, so be it! Just keep your identity, both the approach to designing hardware and software.

You don't understand. Wii U and 3DS, both as hardware units and their lineup of software, is exactly how I want my Nintendo systems. PS4 doesn't do anything for me (other than house MGS 5, thereby forcing me to get one down the line)

Unless they drop the price... this is almost def true.. unless their "second console" strategy works out. 

Honestly, who cares about profits, and why do gamers use profit margins as a barometer to determine success? Do you invest and hold shares, or do you game? If you game, as a gamer, does Nintendo define success to you? If you do I'm happy for you, but from what I'm seeing they are currently an abject failure...

You know a system's seriously lacking where it counts when its defenders resort to pulling out pie charts and statistics to support their point, especially from years past.

MirkoS77

I know what you're trying to say here. I do. But profit defines success. Literally. If you're not profitible you're not succeeding. If you're profitible (like Nintendo's is nearly flawless at achieving), then you are successful. It really begins and ends with that simple concept.

Wii U is $350, with a pack in that is priced $50 separately at retail. The base Wii U SKU costs $300 (for now).

Sony offers their system for $400, but there is a hidden cost involved, you need to pay an additional $50 per year for online. $300 in 6 years. That's $400+$300 = $700 for a PS4 with online support (Sony you clever bastard)

It's not as simple as "lol, weak system, behind the curve, etc.". You need to factor in price. 

Hopefully this will come back to bite their ass, like Vita's memory card prices did.

SuperFlakeman

It can't hurt them because their online service has more benefits than their main competitor Microsoft. Nintendo is irrelevant and can't even put together online co-op for games like Pikmin 3. Nintedo just sucks.

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

... but who will make the most profit ?

Nintendo won every gen so far.

ConanTheStoner

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

Actually it was the other way around.  Nintendo crushed Sony and (for the most part) still does.  

Selling more =/= more profitable.  The Gamecube was highly profitable for Nintendo.  Then when you factor in handheld sales as well as Nintendos killer software sales, you get the results in the graph above.

This is why I find it hilarious when people in System Wars think that Nintendo is failing and desperately need to go 3rd party when the truth is that out of the big 3, Nintendo is the last one that needs to go 3rd party.  They handle their business better than the others and its not even close.

Sony and Microsoft don't just depend on gaming though. I know Sony has struggled company wide, but Nintendo has nothing without gaming. Handhelds have propped them up for a while now, but if phones/tablets catch up Nintendo will be done.

At this point even Nintendo knows the WiiU will be a distant 3rd behind the PS4 & Xbox One. I'll be interested to see Nintendos release schedule for 2014 because it's going to be drought city I suspect for a few months of the year.FlamesOfGrey

[QUOTE="ConanTheStoner"]

[QUOTE="Douevenlift_bro"]LOL WHAT?!

:lol:

Just with Sony PS2 and PS1 CRUSHED Nintendo.

StrongBlackVine

Actually it was the other way around.  Nintendo crushed Sony and (for the most part) still does.  

Selling more =/= more profitable.  The Gamecube was highly profitable for Nintendo.  Then when you factor in handheld sales as well as Nintendos killer software sales, you get the results in the graph above.

This is why I find it hilarious when people in System Wars think that Nintendo is failing and desperately need to go 3rd party when the truth is that out of the big 3, Nintendo is the last one that needs to go 3rd party.  They handle their business better than the others and its not even close.

Sony and Microsoft don't just depend on gaming though. I know Sony has struggled company wide, but Nintendo has nothing without gaming. Handhelds have propped them up for a while now, but if phones/tablets catch up Nintendo will be done.

Did you mean to quote someone else?

I thought we all agreed that Patcher was an Android from the future to farther the Bro Gamer agenda, he runs on Doritos, Mountain Dew, and Trolling :P. That and..... He is an idiot >.>