PC gaming market is not owned by Microsoft........

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

Microsoft is invested in PC gaming. PC games and Windows go hand in hand: thats a huge plus for MS as it strengthens their OS.

Obviously they would rather people buy 360 games, but its a consolation prize nevertheless.

As far i know nobody earns money by people buying games for PC except the ones who made the game. While on consoles you pay a fee to Ninty MS or sony per game sold.

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

froidnite

exactly. and to add to this, ms doesn't has any say or any control on what kind of game can you make for the pc.

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

skektek

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

All games released on X360 requires a ATI manufactured gfx card. Does that mean ATI owns X360 gaming market

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

skektek

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

let me ask you one thing - if i want to release a game on window do i need microsoft's permission or do i need to pay ms anything ?

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

froidnite

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

All games released on X360 requires a ATI manufactured gfx card. Does that mean ATI owns X360 gaming market

lol

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

skektek

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

Wow....you couldn't be more wrong.

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

trix5817

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

Wow....you couldn't be more wrong.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

Aljosa23

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

Wow....you couldn't be more wrong.

A platform for games? What are you talking about? It's an advertising campaign pretty much. They have to pay publishers to but the "GFW" logo on their games........

I know Microsoft doesn't make money off PC but do they make money with the Games for Windows games?

I know Microsoft doesn't make money off PC but do they make money with the Games for Windows games?

blizzvalve

No, they don't make money of GFW games. They have to pay the publisher to put that logo on their games.

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

skektek

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

but they don't make money off of games released for PC unless its that games for windows nonsense.

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

trix5817

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

Wow....you couldn't be more wrong.

A platform for games? What are you talking about? It's an advertising campaign pretty much. They have to pay publishers to but the "GFW" logo on their games........

I know Microsoft doesn't make money off PC but do they make money with the Games for Windows games?

blizzvalve

No.....Why would any publisher want to give MS money to include that banner on their games.

How is it not a platform? Can you play GFW games on a mac? You can't, there for it's a platform just like the Mac is.Aljosa23

[QUOTE="skektek"][QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

FlawlessSeasons

This is one of the stupidest arguments anyone has tried to make in SW, on top of that it is entirely pointless. I am not sure what you people are trying to achieve.

Of course MS owns the PC gaming market. Almost all games released on the PC require MS's OS and their APIs (Direct X).

but they don't make money off of games released for PC unless its that games for windows nonsense.

They don't make money off of "GFW" games........

How MS makes "some" money off of PC games is royalties and licenses of certain technologies. It is usually a flat fee or something familiar IF the game maker wants to use something that MS holds patents on. An example of this was back in 2002 MS had patents on part of the OpenGL spec.

The biggest royalty MS gets is from the compilers to make sure they compile into compatible formats for windows.

That cost is passed on to the developers who use compilers (i.e. all of them)

That cost is passed on to you, the consumer. You just don't really notice it as it is just a small chunk of that $50 price tag.

I don't think all of you know how fast royalties add up for MS(and why they get all the big, bad company press).

How MS makes "some" money off of PC games is royalties and licenses of certain technologies. It is usually a flat fee or something familiar IF the game maker wants to use something that MS holds patents on. An example of this was back in 2002 MS had patents on part of the OpenGL spec.

The biggest royalty MS gets is from the compilers to make sure they compile into compatible formats for windows.

That cost is passed on to the developers who use compilers (i.e. all of them)

That cost is passed on to you, the consumer. You just don't really notice it as it is just a small chunk of that $50 price tag.

I don't think all of you know how fast royalties add up for MS(and why they get all the big, bad company press).

maabus99

YES, duh! You can write code on any os, if you don't rely upon directx, but ultimately, you'll need a windows box to test on , unless you norrow someone's windows PC, or skip DX alltogether and go opengl and sdl. This would be pretty dumb. Don't be so one dimensional in your thoughts or your assertions.farrell2k

Do PS3 dev boxes run windows? Does the PS3 rely upon DX APIs? Sony can dev and test a game without writing one oiece of code for windows,so your reply is pretty pointless. I expected that, though.Sony can run its entire business, like many others do, on open source OSs, without supporting MS in any way. Don't be so one dimensional in your thoughts and assertions.farrell2k

[QUOTE="maabus99"]

How MS makes "some" money off of PC games is royalties and licenses of certain technologies. It is usually a flat fee or something familiar IF the game maker wants to use something that MS holds patents on. An example of this was back in 2002 MS had patents on part of the OpenGL spec.

The biggest royalty MS gets is from the compilers to make sure they compile into compatible formats for windows.

That cost is passed on to the developers who use compilers (i.e. all of them)

That cost is passed on to you, the consumer. You just don't really notice it as it is just a small chunk of that $50 price tag.

I don't think all of you know how fast royalties add up for MS(and why they get all the big, bad company press).

Vandalvideo

I never claimed anything. I just pointed out how MS makes money. I honestly skipped 2/3 of all the bloat posts in here.

Good luck with playing a large number of games without Windows. Have fun with that.swanlee

Good luck with playing any games at all on a windows disc without processor, RAM, MoBo.....

Good luck with playing a large number of games without Windows. Have fun with that.swanlee

Good luck playing a larger number of games without AMD or Intel. Have fun with that.

[QUOTE="obviousconclusion"]

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

[QUOTE="swanlee"]Good luck with playing a large number of games without Windows. Have fun with that.obviousconclusion

Good luck with playing any games at all on a windows disc without processor, RAM, MoBo.....

Good luck running that proc, mobo, RAM without electricity...

Good luck running that electricity without coal/hydro/nuclear power...

Good luck with coal/hydro/nuclear power without the sun...

no they dont but they are the major trend setters in there with there directx technologies and they are bringing game programming to the masses with xna.chigga102

Alot of people doubt XNA will be succesful.

[QUOTE="naval"]

let me ask you one thing - if i want to release a game on window do i need microsoft's permission or do i need to pay ms anything ?

farrell2k

YES, duh! You can write code on any os, if you don't rely upon directx, but ultimately, you'll need a windows box to test on , unless you borrow someone's windows PC, or skip DX alltogether and go opengl and sdl. This would be pretty dumb.

Don't be so one dimensional in your thoughts or your assertions.

actually its you who is unable to understand what i wanted to say. if ms had ownership of pc games they would have the power to regulate it - i.e they can determine what games can be played on pc. but they can't.

also ms getting few dollars out of million dollars that goes into making of a game, wow !!! also what if i already use my exisiting windows for this purpose, then can i show ms my thumb ? also various other softwares like anitvirus, movie players etc that are available on on windows, also need to be tested using windows. so, i guess ms owns all these also ?

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

froidnite

Theres no denying your points but...In order to play the games you need Windows, a Microsoft technology. In order to play games on your Xbox 360 you need Microsofts OS to run the games despite it having an IBM part.

It doesn't matter which parts you use, Western Digital HDD, Crosshair, OCZ or AMD processors. After which ever parts you choose you'll always need Windows to play the game. Without it, gaming will not ensue.

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

Pro_wrestler

Theres no denying your points but...In order to play the games you need Windows, a Microsoft technology. In order to play games on your Xbox 360 you need Microsofts OS to run the games despite it having an IBM part.

It doesn't matter which parts you use, Western Digital HDD, Crosshair, OCZ or AMD processors. After which ever parts you choose you'll always need Windows to play the game. Without it, gaming will not ensue.

sigh! this keeps on going in circles :(

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

Pro_wrestler

Theres no denying your points but...In order to play the games you need Windows, a Microsoft technology. In order to play games on your Xbox 360 you need Microsofts OS to run the games despite it having an IBM part.

It doesn't matter which parts you use, Western Digital HDD, Crosshair, OCZ or AMD processors. After which ever parts you choose you'll always need Windows to play the game. Without it, gaming will not ensue.

With out AMD or Intel gaming will not ensue. Same goes for ATI and Nvidia. I really don't see your point here. MS does not own PC gaming. Sorry. It's an open platform, which is the exact opposite of the Xbox 360, which MS owns. They can regulate the games for the 360, while they cannot do that with the PC. They don't make money off of PC games, yet they make money off of 360 games. If you don't like it, then leave this forum.

[QUOTE="froidnite"]

MS just produces one of the many parts required to game on PCs. They don't make money off PC games sold, they just make money of each OS copy sold, just like Intel or AMD or Nvidia make money when one of their product is sold.

MS owns PC gaming market....is like saying IBM owns X360 and PS3 gaming market cos they make processors for both of them.

Pro_wrestler

Theres no denying your points but...In order to play the games you need Windows, a Microsoft technology. In order to play games on your Xbox 360 you need Microsofts OS to run the games despite it having an IBM part.

It doesn't matter which parts you use, Western Digital HDD, Crosshair, OCZ or AMD processors. After which ever parts you choose you'll always need Windows to play the game. Without it, gaming will not ensue.

Clearly you don't understand the ownership part for the 360 vs the PC.

Microsoft owns one part of a PC, the OS (and if you're willing to play with a limited game selection, not even that much). That's it.

With the 360, Microsoft owns every piece of hardware and software (or must be licensed by them). Yes, they have IBM produce the chips, but MS actually owns the chip- IBM is not free to distribute said chip into the PC market if it wishes.

Royalties are irrelevant. If you write windiows and dx code, you need a windows box to test. Unless you make the foolish decision to not test your software, or you pirate a copy of Windows, MS is making money from you as a pc game dev. Your game just made MS money. It's really quite simple, but I don't expect you to understand. It's o.k. Not everyone can think beyond simple ideas and concepts.farrell2k

If you bothered to read any of my posts, you'd know my argument is that windows PC gaming makes MS money. farrell2k

This has been discussed so many times please just stop with these threads. The only way Microsoft owns the market is because 95% of computers have Windows as an operation system. The only way really real way is like with Games for Windows thing but even then they don't really own the market.

How many devs purchased windows boxes to test code? ALL OF THEM. You can call this an indirect cost, but it is still making MS money.

farrell2k

Dude...Even people working for Sony uses Windows to do so much of their work....So I guess MS is making a significant amount of money thanks to sony. Guess Sony themselsves are helping their rivals.:roll:

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="farrell2k"]Royalties are irrelevant. If you write windiows and dx code, you need a windows box to test. Unless you make the foolish decision to not test your software, or you pirate a copy of Windows, MS is making money from you as a pc game dev. Your game just made MS money. It's really quite simple, but I don't expect you to understand. It's o.k. Not everyone can think beyond simple ideas and concepts.farrell2k

I'm not saying MS has any control over the PC gaming industry. You're not reading...AGAIN.

If you bothered to read any of my posts, you'd know my argument is that windows PC gaming makes MS money. I am not saying and never have that MS somehow gets a cut from every PC game sold.

How many devs purchased windows boxes to test code? ALL OF THEM. You can call this an indirect cost, but it is still making MS money.

How many people jumpo to the next version of MS's OS every few years over claims of faster, more reliable gaming, or because it just won't work on olde version of Windows? Millions, making MS money.

Do you have any idea how many other companies have used Windows for their business? Does that mean that they have control or own any of those companies? No. Windows is used a lot in the Medical business, does that mean that they own it? I don't see why this is so hard to understand.

This has been discussed so many times please just stop with these threads. The only way Microsoft owns the market is because 95% of computers have Windows as an operation system. The only way really real way is like with Games for Windows thing but even then they don't really own the market.

H3OXTC

They don't even make money off of Games For Windows games. They have to pay the publisher to put that on their game's box. You think they'd have to do that for a 360 game?:lol: