PC gaming's main advantage: Backwards compatibility.

The problem with consoles is that backwards compatibility is spotty at best. For example, out of the 7000-odd games released for the PS2, how many games have seen digital remakes on the PS3? How many have re-released for the PS3 on PSN? Very few, if any. The limitations of physical media means that many old gems are out of print and are only available on Ebay at outrageous prices.

On the other hand, gaming PCs will likely use x86 processors for decades to come. The need for backwards compatibility (for all applications, including games) is so great that I doubt Microsoft will be dropping the Windows NT kernel anytime soon. Additionally, the proliferation of digital distribution platforms means that old games will never go "out of print," so to speak. Certainly, not all old PC games are available on digital distribution platforms, but many are getting there, easing the problem of finding and buying old games at a good price.

I have a PS3. I am somewhat concerned that if and when I upgrade to a PS4, I might not be able to play any of my PS3 games. Yeah, tell me to keep my PS3 - but what happens when it breaks down? Then my games will be unplayable.

Console manufacturers and publishers alike need to realize that they revive revenues if they put in some effort to ensure that their games, even long after the previous console generation is over, gets a digital release so that everyone can enjoy them.

The PC still has a lot of work to do in this area, but in terms of backwards compatibility, it easily trumps both the PS3 and the Xbox 360. The Wii is the only console I can think of that has done well to maintain backwards compatibility, particularly with the Virtual Console and the like.

cant get 3d movie maker to work on my win 7 pc. I also could not get shadow of distany to work .

wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....

also PC games used to be the same thing, but they are diving into DD a lot faster then consoles but consoles are making their way over nicely,

cant get 3d movie maker to work on my win 7 pc. I also could not get shadow of distany to work .

dontshackzmii

wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....savagetwinkie

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox). I agree with you though, the amount of games I can play on my PC is endless, Playing stuff like 7th guest, Dink Smallwood, Return to Zork, and Adventures of Willie Beamish is awesome. Theres also the many emulators (assuming you own the retail version of the games of course) that you can use to enhance the classics as well as have the ability to have many consoles in one instead of having to hook up multiple consoles to a TV.

I would like to add that Sony has done a pretty good job with BC though. The original PS3 was compatible with both the PSX. and PS2. Its a shame that all newer versions dont support this feature.

EDIT: New versions play PSX but not PS2 games.

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

Indeed, I have never had a problem with running an old game. Diablo II, Deus Ex, old DOS games, and more run fine and are a blast :).

those who have problems getting old games to run i posit that while it may be hard, at least it isn't impossible

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox). I agree with you though, the amount of games I can play on my PC is endless, Playing stuff like 7th guest, Dink Smallwood, Return to Zork, and Adventures of Willie Beamish is awesome. Theres also the many emulators (assuming you own the retail version of the games of course) that you can use to enhance the classics as well as have the ability to have many consoles in one instead of having to hook up multiple consoles to a TV.

I would like to add that Sony has done a pretty good job with BC though. The original PS3 was compatible with both the PSX. and PS2. Its a shame that all newer versions dont support this feature.

rikimaru93

Good job? I don't have any PS2 games, but there have been some PS2 games I have always wanted to play but can't, due to a lack of BC on my PS3 Slim.

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

ianuilliam

Steam/GoG/Other DD services already have the games patched to work on current OS and PCs, and if that isn't working, there are source ports, mods and DOSBox to make them work.

I have played countless old games, including Eye of the Beholder from 1991 (or 1992, can't remember), Ultima IV and VII with mods (works perfectly), etc. And i'm talking about old games, early 90s. 'Newer' games '98 onwards like Unreal and HL, i don't even need to tweak at all.

What games don't work? I'll help you out right now, if you want to, i'm bored.. The 'significant' work you need to put into making them work is no more complicated then your thing in your daily life. Is it complicated to buy food or pay the taxes?

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....The_Capitalist

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

Lucianu

[QUOTE="rikimaru93"]

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox). I agree with you though, the amount of games I can play on my PC is endless, Playing stuff like 7th guest, Dink Smallwood, Return to Zork, and Adventures of Willie Beamish is awesome. Theres also the many emulators (assuming you own the retail version of the games of course) that you can use to enhance the classics as well as have the ability to have many consoles in one instead of having to hook up multiple consoles to a TV.

I would like to add that Sony has done a pretty good job with BC though. The original PS3 was compatible with both the PSX. and PS2. Its a shame that all newer versions dont support this feature.

The_Capitalist

Good job? I don't have any PS2 games, but there have been some PS2 games I have always wanted to play but can't, due to a lack of BC on my PS3 Slim.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....savagetwinkie

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

Is it complicated to buy food or pay the taxes?

Lucianu

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....savagetwinkie

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

So what if Windows 8 is going to be on ARM? No legacy Windows applications are going to run on an ARM system. ARM might become popular on netbooks, but those netbooks are going to be running on a mobile OS, like Android, for example.

Plus, companies like Intel and AMD are not going to simply drop dead and let ARM take over. ARM may have the edge in battery life, but x86 still trumps it in terms of raw performance, at least where larger chips are concerned.

Besides, your point about ARM and x86 are completely irrelevant in this thread. This thread about backwards compatiblity between various game platforms.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

110million

It's very cool, wouldn't call it the main advantage tho. Not too hard to keep my old consoles around. Whereas Tie Fighter isn't even recognised as a game by my current PC :(locopatho

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....savagetwinkie

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

Better power:performance is good for mobile stuff, but desktops don't need to worry bout power restrictions so much.

Some people like a real hands-off approach to gaming, but in reality, one or two different techniques will fix 90% of games that won't work, and they are really easy to setup.

110million

Yeah, and for some people, for example, it might be complicated to resolve payment issues with companies that made a mistake, or solving issues at work with your boss and examples can go on, but point is once you get the hang of it there is nothing complicated, and there's certainly nothing complicated in reading for 10 minutes some simplistic stuff about DosBox, source ports or i dunno what, and then putting in practice.

People need to get the fact that knowledge isn't going to hit them in the head, and that applies to anything in life.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

You can't run anything on ARM. The only people who are interested in ARM are people running web servers.

The future can't be predicted, but x86 is likely going to stay for the next few decades. It won't go away overnight.

Inconsistancy

Better power:performance is good for mobile stuff, but desktops don't need to worry bout power restrictions so much.

Alright then! Here are a couple of challenges for you!

Get Scarface TWIY to run on a windows 7 machine

Get Crimson skies to display perfectly with hardware acceleration on an ATI card from the last 5 years.

Its very hard to play old games on PC

It requires hours of work to get old games working if you have recent windows

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] windows 8 is going to be on arm, arm is going ot be a major player in the mobile market, arm is arleady exteremely popular for embedded devices, arm has a much better power/performance then x86, arm is also customizable, arm is going ot replace the x86 desktop, its not going to be in a few years, but x86 isn't going to be around in 10 years.savagetwinkie

Does ARM plan to release chip designs that can compete with something like a Core i5 2500K? Or even the PS3's Cell processor? I see little indication that ARM plans to compete in the desktop space. Last time someone tried to put an ARM processor on a desktop computer was back in the early 1990s, with the Acorn Archimedies. You are talking about mobile games, aren't you? Most mobile games only run on ARM, that's true.

Your predictions about the future are haphazard and do not consider current market conditions. ARM will remain dominant on mobile platforms and places where people need a low-power processor for light duties, like web servers and netbooks and the like. Gaming will still remain on x86 and PowerPC for the decades to come. Not to say that that can't change, of course.

Its very hard to play old games on PC

It requires hours of work to get old games working if you have recent windows

Zurrur

Old games like what.

[QUOTE="110million"]

Some people like a real hands-off approach to gaming, but in reality, one or two different techniques will fix 90% of games that won't work, and they are really easy to setup.

Lucianu

Yeah, and for some people, for example, it might be complicated to resolve payment issues with companies that made a mistake, or solving issues at work with your boss and examples can go on, but point is once you get the hang of it there is nothing complicated, and there's certainly nothing complicated in reading for 10 minutes some simplistic stuff about DosBox, source ports or i dunno what, and then putting in practice.

Alright then! Here are a couple of challenges for you!

Get Scarface TWIY to run on a windows 7 machine

Get Crimson skies to display perfectly with hardware acceleration on an ATI card from the last 5 years.

DoomZaW

And what's going to be my compensation for solving this Earth shattering problem? :P

[QUOTE="locopatho"]It's very cool, wouldn't call it the main advantage tho. Not too hard to keep my old consoles around. Whereas Tie Fighter isn't even recognised as a game by my current PC :(110million

[QUOTE="Zurrur"]

Its very hard to play old games on PC

It requires hours of work to get old games working if you have recent windows

Lucianu

Old games like what.

Yeah, even for more recent games like KOTOR, hex edits are needed to get the game running in 16x9 aspect ratio. That was only eight years ago.

why are we talking about ARM? I thought windows 8 on ARM was a move for the tablet and handheld market - not a move for ARM to take over the desktop market. first MS would have to convince all their corporate clients (which are going to be edging out normal desktop users soon, at least in spending [Reuters]) that a complete rewrite of all their key infrastructure is worth it.

and it's not.

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

Lucianu

Steam/GoG/Other DD services already have the games patched to work on current OS and PCs, and if that isn't working, there are source ports, mods and DOSBox to make them work.

I have played countless old games, including Eye of the Beholder from 1991 (or 1992, can't remember), Ultima IV and VII with mods (works perfectly), etc. And i'm talking about old games, early 90s. 'Newer' games '98 onwards like Unreal and HL, i don't even need to tweak at all.

What games don't work? I'll help you out right now, if you want to, i'm bored.. The 'significant' work you need to put into making them work is no more complicated then your thing in your daily life. Is it complicated to buy food or pay the taxes?

I couldn't get Quake to run on my PC... And my copy of Twisted Metal 2 doesn't work on new versions of windows, either...

It's not that great, really.

I'd still be a PC gamer in addition to console if I had this backwards compatibility in my Windows 7 computer.

I couldn't get Quake to run on my PC... And my copy of Twisted Metal 2 doesn't work on new versions of windows, either...

It's not that great, really.

BuryMe

at least it's there, and it's possible. I'd prefer the option over not.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

Never worked in a white-collar place before eh? They still use lots of tech or software much older than just 10 years, nothing will change in just 10 years. 110million

Does ARM plan to release chip designs that can compete with something like a Core i5 2500K? Or even the PS3's Cell processor? I see little indication that ARM plans to compete in the desktop space. Last time someone tried to put an ARM processor on a desktop computer was back in the early 1990s, with the Acorn Archimedies. You are talking about mobile games, aren't you? Most mobile games only run on ARM, that's true.

Your predictions about the future are haphazard and do not consider current market conditions. ARM will remain dominant on mobile platforms and places where people need a low-power processor for light duties, like web servers and netbooks and the like. Gaming will still remain on x86 and PowerPC for the decades to come. Not to say that that can't change, of course.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

ianuilliam

Steam/GoG/Other DD services already have the games patched to work on current OS and PCs, and if that isn't working, there are source ports, mods and DOSBox to make them work.

I have played countless old games, including Eye of the Beholder from 1991 (or 1992, can't remember), Ultima IV and VII with mods (works perfectly), etc. And i'm talking about old games, early 90s. 'Newer' games '98 onwards like Unreal and HL, i don't even need to tweak at all.

What games don't work? I'll help you out right now, if you want to, i'm bored.. The 'significant' work you need to put into making them work is no more complicated then your thing in your daily life. Is it complicated to buy food or pay the taxes?

Yes and no. Newer Windows have BC but you *will* encounter problems. DOS compatibility is good thanks to DOSBox.

why are we talking about ARM? I thought windows 8 on ARM was a move for the tablet and handheld market - not a move for ARM to take over the desktop market. first MS would have to convince all their corporate clients (which are going to be edging out normal desktop users soon, at least in spending [Reuters]) that a complete rewrite of all their key infrastructure is worth it.

and it's not.

Firebird-5

you won't have to rewrite anything, its all windows api stuff so its just a recompile,

Yeah. backwards compatibility is the PC's biggest advanage. With conoles like the PlayStation, they may have you worrying if their next consoles will support backwards compatiblity, but with PC's you can still play games from 10-15 years ago all in one machine. Sony should think about bring back PS2 backwards compatiblity this gen and support backwards compatiblity in the future from now on.

and since desktops aren't as popular anymore they'll be following laptops to stay relevant with software.savagetwinkie

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

why are we talking about ARM? I thought windows 8 on ARM was a move for the tablet and handheld market - not a move for ARM to take over the desktop market. first MS would have to convince all their corporate clients (which are going to be edging out normal desktop users soon, at least in spending [Reuters]) that a complete rewrite of all their key infrastructure is worth it.

and it's not.

savagetwinkie

you won't have to rewrite anything, its all windows api stuff so its just a recompile,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/05/microsoft-windows-8-arm-processors

furthermore, if you think that suits will be all over the idea you're in dreamland. it'd be nice if they were technically literate, let alone proactive

Seriously guys, just mention the problems you have with the games that supposedly don't work, instead of just complaining that they don't work. There's always a fix, most of the times. Obviously not all obscure trashes that never got to see the light of even a minuscule fanbase isn't going to work. Nothing is perfect, but its pretty damn close.

I couldn't get Quake to run on my PC... And my copy of Twisted Metal 2 doesn't work on new versions of windows, either...

It's not that great, really.

BuryMe

I could, but it's from Steam. I don't think the original disk is compatible with win7/Vista. I think it's great, and not only that, but incredible.

Rebuying or downloading patched versions through Steam/gog/etc isn't really bc. It's like the Wii's VC, or buying PS1 clas*ics off the PSN. When I think BC, I think being able to stick my old copy in and play it without having to install and configure a third party program to do it. Hell, I've got a stack of games that I can't play on my current pc just due to media, since pcs don't generally come with floppy drives anymore, and CERTAINLY not 5.25 floppy drives.

ianuilliam

Well yeah.. but 110million gave a good response, so i'm not gonna elaborate.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

why are we talking about ARM? I thought windows 8 on ARM was a move for the tablet and handheld market - not a move for ARM to take over the desktop market. first MS would have to convince all their corporate clients (which are going to be edging out normal desktop users soon, at least in spending [Reuters]) that a complete rewrite of all their key infrastructure is worth it.

and it's not.

you won't have to rewrite anything, its all windows api stuff so its just a recompile,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/05/microsoft-windows-8-arm-processors

[QUOTE="BuryMe"]

I couldn't get Quake to run on my PC... And my copy of Twisted Metal 2 doesn't work on new versions of windows, either...

It's not that great, really.

Lucianu

I could, but it's from Steam. I don't think the original disk is compatible with win7/Vista. I think it's great, and not only that, but incredible.

And it's no good for games that haven't ben released via those methods.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

you won't have to rewrite anything, its all windows api stuff so its just a recompile,

savagetwinkie

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/05/microsoft-windows-8-arm-processors

i don't quite think you understand how stubborn the corporate world is when it comes to IT

Yes, because you can eventually run 99% of old games.

No, No, No, a thousand times no to the exaggerated misinformation that it's always easy that's running throughout this thread.

I've had trouble getting Black & White to play on XP (had to find an unofficial patch), I've had trouble getting System Shock 2 to play on Vista (had to give up on it for awhile until someone eventually made tools to make it possible), I've had trouble getting Aliens vs. Predator to work on XP, I've had trouble getting Mechwarrior 2 to properly run on XP, I had to download specific tools for Thief on Vista, and many, many times etc. for other games.

Just because someone made an emulator for DOS (which by the way has been ported to the XB, so does that mean it also gets credit for said backward compatibility), that doesn't do squat for games made for Windows 95, or worse the short window of Windows 2000/Me era games, many of which have given me trouble. And of the 30-40 times I've tried the right click, check compatibility for an older version of Windows, I don't think its worked EVEN once.

Rebuying the games isn't really backwards compatibility... It's just rebuying something you already own.

And it's no good for games that haven't ben released via those methods.

BuryMe

Speaking of games that haven't ben released on any DD service, Twisted Metal 2 works with dosbox version 0.74, from what i've seen on google. I'm sure that there are other ways to make it work..