PC gaming's main advantage: Backwards compatibility.

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox).rikimaru93

Well, they should note that Dosbox is only necessary to play very old games, mostly older than the first PSX games. I have several games from the N64/PSX era that can be installed by simply inserting the disc into the disc tray and selecting on which drive you'd like to install the game. For example, I've installed Jazz Jackrabbit 2, a (great) PC game from 1998 on about 7 different PCs/laptops over the years, and I've never once had any trouble installing/running it.

So their arguments are futile. :)

No, No, No, a thousand times no to the exaggerated misinformation that it's always easy that's running throughout this thread.

Seiki_sands

There is nothing easy about anything, in general, if you are not experienced enough, man. It is easy, once you know what you're doing. 10 - 15 damn minutes to make a damn game work ain't what i would call hard.

I had massive problems modding Morrowind at first, because i was a idiot regarding that. Now that i have enough experience, i laugh at how i was back then, because its extremely easy and takes far less time than it took before.

Yes, because you can eventually run 99% of old games.

No, No, No, a thousand times no to the exaggerated misinformation that it's always easy that's running throughout this thread.

I've had trouble getting Black & White to play on XP (had to find an unofficial patch), I've had trouble getting System Shock 2 to play on Vista (had to give up on it for awhile until someone eventually made tools to make it possible), I've had trouble getting Aliens vs. Predator to work on XP, I've had trouble getting Mechwarrior 2 to properly run on XP, I had to download specific tools for Thief on Vista, and many, many times etc. for other games.

Just because someone made an emulator for DOS (which by the way has been ported to the XB, so does that mean it also gets credit for said backward compatibility), that doesn't do squat for games made for Windows 95, or worse the short window of Windows 2000/Me era games, many of which have given me trouble. And of the 30-40 times I've tried the right click, check compatibility for an older version of Windows, I don't think its worked EVEN once.

Seiki_sands

[QUOTE="Seiki_sands"]

Yes, because you can eventually run 99% of old games.

No, No, No, a thousand times no to the exaggerated misinformation that it's always easy that's running throughout this thread.

I've had trouble getting Black & White to play on XP (had to find an unofficial patch), I've had trouble getting System Shock 2 to play on Vista (had to give up on it for awhile until someone eventually made tools to make it possible), I've had trouble getting Aliens vs. Predator to work on XP, I've had trouble getting Mechwarrior 2 to properly run on XP, I had to download specific tools for Thief on Vista, and many, many times etc. for other games.

Just because someone made an emulator for DOS (which by the way has been ported to the XB, so does that mean it also gets credit for said backward compatibility), that doesn't do squat for games made for Windows 95, or worse the short window of Windows 2000/Me era games, many of which have given me trouble. And of the 30-40 times I've tried the right click, check compatibility for an older version of Windows, I don't think its worked EVEN once.

wis3boi

What can I tell you, play more games. You're bound to run into problems, which is why those unofficial patches and tools exist, because there were problems, people didn't make them for the hell of it.

Also, by your logic RRoD was not a problem because I have a launch 360 that works just fine.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/05/microsoft-windows-8-arm-processors

i don't quite think you understand how stubborn the corporate world is when it comes to IT

[QUOTE="Seiki_sands"]

No, No, No, a thousand times no to the exaggerated misinformation that it's always easy that's running throughout this thread.

Lucianu

There is nothing easy about anything, in general, if you are not experienced enough, man. It is easy, once you know what you're doing. 10 - 15 damn minutes to make a damn game work ain't what i would call hard.

I had massive problems modding Morrowind at first, because i was a idiot regarding that. Now that i have enough experience, i laugh at how i was back then, because its extremely easy and takes far less time than it took before.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

you won't have to rewrite anything, its all windows api stuff so its just a recompile,

savagetwinkie

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/05/microsoft-windows-8-arm-processors

With die shrinks on x86, ARM's power savings advantages are likely to be negated, especially as we move towards 22nm and beyond. What does ARM offer on a technical level that makes it superior to x86? What is the point in recompiling software if a decent chip solution exists already? Do you work for ARM? Or are you just trolling?

Like I have said, until the future reveals itself, there is very little reason to see any hardware vendor pushing ARM onto the desktop. There's no point. Besides Linux, there is very little desktop software that runs on ARM natively - and if there are very few people who will be using an ARM desktop, what is point in recompiling software for them?

Again, either you are trolling, or you are simply delusional.

Seriously guys, just mention the problems you have with the games that supposedly don't work, instead of just complaining that they don't work. There's always a fix, most of the times. Obviously not all obscure trashes that never got to see the light of even a minuscule fanbase isn't going to work. Nothing is perfect, but its pretty damn close.

Lucianu

It's tiring to seach for all those patches and fixes though. I had to browse the whole web to figure out how to make GLQuake run in high res.

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

Seriously guys, just mention the problems you have with the games that supposedly don't work, instead of just complaining that they don't work. There's always a fix, most of the times. Obviously not all obscure trashes that never got to see the light of even a minuscule fanbase isn't going to work. Nothing is perfect, but its pretty damn close.

nameless12345

It's tiring to seach for all those patches and fixes though. I had to browse the whole web to figure out how to make GLQuake run in high res.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Lucianu"]

Seriously guys, just mention the problems you have with the games that supposedly don't work, instead of just complaining that they don't work. There's always a fix, most of the times. Obviously not all obscure trashes that never got to see the light of even a minuscule fanbase isn't going to work. Nothing is perfect, but its pretty damn close.

110million

It's tiring to seach for all those patches and fixes though. I had to browse the whole web to figure out how to make GLQuake run in high res.

Well I wasn't a PC gamer in the DOS times so I had no clue how to switch the resolution via the command line.

You can say that about anything though. We could all become rocket scientists if we wanted, most of us aren't bothered :P Everythings easy when you know how.locopatho

Well yeah.. that's the beauty of free will. We can do anything, the sky is the limit.

Don't forget that emulators let you run old games too from other consoles.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jan/05/microsoft-windows-8-arm-processors

The_Capitalist

With die shrinks on x86, ARM's power savings advantages are likely to be negated, especially as we move towards 22nm and beyond. What does ARM offer on a technical level that makes it superior to x86? What is the point in recompiling software if a decent chip solution exists already? Do you work for ARM? Or are you just trolling?

Like I have said, until the future reveals itself, there is very little reason to see any hardware vendor pushing ARM onto the desktop. There's no point. Besides Linux, there is very little desktop software that runs on ARM natively - and if there are very few people who will be using an ARM desktop, what is point in recompiling software for them?

Again, either you are trolling, or you are simply delusional.

linkin a 50 nm processor, 40% of power consumption is current leakage, which grows as processors get smaller, so the 32 nm processor power consumption is likely primarly leakage current, and reducing the size will mostly only effect size and heat

ARM doesnt' actually manufacture any of their CPU's, they designed them to be modular, and with so many companies jumping aboard the arm bandwagon, ubuntu is working with arm to release a full desktop, windows 8 is coming out to support arm, it already dominates the mobile market, it will soon dominate the latptop/tablets, desktops will evetunally be arm machines, you'll loose the ability to play any old games unless you get a x86 emulator

Well I wasn't a PC gamer in the DOS times so I had no clue how to switch the resolution via the command line.

nameless12345

Let me give you a shocker here. I was never a gamer before 2006. I didn't even have a PC, or any console.

Guess how many consoles i have now.

A cookie to anyone who can tell me how to run system shock 2 in win7 64 bit.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Well I wasn't a PC gamer in the DOS times so I had no clue how to switch the resolution via the command line.

Lucianu

Let me give you a shocker here. I was never a gamer before 2006. I didn't even have a PC, or any console.

Guess how many consoles i have now.

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

ianuilliam

My new 120gig doesn't at all!

Sow me how I can get every CnC from the 20th anniversary edition runnung on my 64bit Win7 Home Premium and I agree with you, until then: no

A cookie to anyone who can tell me how to run system shock 2 in win7 64 bit.

topgunmv

Virtual Xp? haha

Sow me how I can get every CnC from the 20th anniversary edition runnung on my 64bit Win7 Home Premium and I agree with you, until then: no

ArchoNils2

Well that's not really fair is it? I mean you can't exactly get your 64 games to play on the GC or wii...

Thats pretty cool, it makes me wonder a lot of things. What made you go into gaming? :o

110million

Counter Strike, MU online and Starcraft were incredibly popular around internet cafees from 2003 'till 2007, around late 2006 i decided to get into it, i bought a pentium 4... in 2007 i got the net... finally, and you can imagine the influx of info. i gathered from all these gaming sites, all these consoles i had to idea about (console gaming is almost non-existent in my country).

Fast foward, am now i'm a PC gamer mainly, love eye candy and modding games for it(GTA IV for example, love how i molded the visuals). But i played ton of games on the SNES/PS1/PS2/Wii and finally got a N64 a wile ago + OoT (which i have not finished yet).

And i do play these consoles 'till this day. And i barely scratched the surface, since i got so late into these consoles.

[QUOTE="locopatho"]You can say that about anything though. We could all become rocket scientists if we wanted, most of us aren't bothered :P Everythings easy when you know how.Lucianu

Well yeah.. that's the beauty of free will. We can do anything, the sky is the limit.

PC doesn't have backwards compatability, PC is still PC unless suddenly the PC has generations and we are maybe at PC8? or probably PC10 by now in which case backwards compatability would exist but there can't be backwards compatability without a predecessor.JohnF111

[QUOTE="JohnF111"]PC doesn't have backwards compatability, PC is still PC unless suddenly the PC has generations and we are maybe at PC8? or probably PC10 by now in which case backwards compatability would exist but there can't be backwards compatability without a predecessor.110million

The smart thing to do is buy through digital distribution. I'mgetting most of my multiplats throughSteam... at least untilconsoles adopt a similar system.Hard copies rely on emulators and you really can't bank on the console manufacturers to even include them

pc is not fdully backward compatible. i still cant play metal gear solid 2 on my windows seven and alot f old games that needs DOS does not work on pc.

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox).

rikimaru93

Backwards compatibility plus mods = a 1998 2D game in Full HD!

It's a huge advantage in my opinion, especially if you prefer older games rather than most of the new ones.

And this is why i thank god for Steam and other sigital services. Lost of old games for funny prices.

[QUOTE="rikimaru93"]

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox).

warmaster670

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

[QUOTE="rikimaru93"]

Unfortunately SW isnt going to agree with you. The consolites are going to argue that its too complicated to run old games (IE omg its so much work to download dosbox).

110million

So you would qualify ps1 downloads off of psn as being backwards compatibility? because I sure wouldnt, if emulators count then the pc is "backwards compatable" with just about every game system released.

While it is true that there are some games that won't work for a certain period every time MS decides to change OS. It is also ridiculous to say that PC doesn't have BC because of those few games, some of which, if popular, will probably have a work around in a future. So yes it is an advantage of PC that regardless if you change hardware or not you always have a ridiculous backlog of games to play.

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="warmaster670"]Using an emulator isnt backwards compatibility.

warmaster670

So you would qualify ps1 downloads off of psn as being backwards compatibility? because I sure wouldnt, if emulators count then the pc is "backwards compatable" with just about every game system released.

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

I have several old pc games that will not run on my current pc. Some COULD, maybe, if I'm willing to put a significant amount of work into it. My 60gb ps3 plays every ps1 and ps2 game I own just by putting the disc in.

Espada12

My new 120gig doesn't at all!

Its very hard to play old games on PC

It requires hours of work to get old games working if you have recent windows

Zurrur

wrong about that x86 theory, the move to ARM has already started....

also PC games used to be the same thing, but they are diving into DD a lot faster then consoles but consoles are making their way over nicely,

savagetwinkie

For Q1 2011,

1. AMD has increased AMD APU revenue,

2. Intel has increased Intel Atom revenue.

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] did you actually bother to read that? "Applications will have to be recompiled or rewritten" the things that will have to be rewritten is anything that deals with hardware like drivers, which will be mostly on the manufacturers end, but heres the thing, since arm is making a big push into mobile world, laptops... its going to be done anyway, and regular applications are just going to be recompiledsavagetwinkie

With die shrinks on x86, ARM's power savings advantages are likely to be negated, especially as we move towards 22nm and beyond. What does ARM offer on a technical level that makes it superior to x86? What is the point in recompiling software if a decent chip solution exists already? Do you work for ARM? Or are you just trolling?

Like I have said, until the future reveals itself, there is very little reason to see any hardware vendor pushing ARM onto the desktop. There's no point. Besides Linux, there is very little desktop software that runs on ARM natively - and if there are very few people who will be using an ARM desktop, what is point in recompiling software for them?

Again, either you are trolling, or you are simply delusional.

linkin a 50 nm processor, 40% of power consumption is current leakage, which grows as processors get smaller, so the 32 nm processor power consumption is likely primarly leakage current, and reducing the size will mostly only effect size and heat

ARM doesnt' actually manufacture any of their CPU's, they designed them to be modular, and with so many companies jumping aboard the arm bandwagon, ubuntu is working with arm to release a full desktop, windows 8 is coming out to support arm, it already dominates the mobile market, it will soon dominate the latptop/tablets, desktops will evetunally be arm machines, you'll loose the ability to play any old games unless you get a x86 emulator

With so many companies, why Intel is still number 1 semi-conductor entity? Anyway, western CPU ISAs (e.g. X86(USA), ARM(UK)) has issues with China's national MIPS ISA support.

ARM on the desktop and unix type OS is not new i.e. Acorn Archimedes and RISC PC. Atm, ARM is dominates phone and mobile phones, while X86 dominates netbooks, laptops, desktops, servers and HPC. Two clone armies are headed for a clash.

Windows NT** on non-X86 PC is not new i.e. Windows NT 4.0 MIPS/Alpha/PowerPC and Windows XP/2003/2008 Itanium. Microsoft's support for ARM replaces the EOL Windows XP/2003/2008 Itanium.

**Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista/20087/8 are all part of Windows NT family.

From http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-GMA-600.31181.0.html

Notice

PowerVR SGX543MP2 *
Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) 600
Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) 500 (PowerVR SGX535)
PowerVR SGX535

VS

AMD C-50's Radeon HD 6250.

[QUOTE="Firebird-5"]

why are we talking about ARM? I thought windows 8 on ARM was a move for the tablet and handheld market - not a move for ARM to take over the desktop market. first MS would have to convince all their corporate clients (which are going to be edging out normal desktop users soon, at least in spending [Reuters]) that a complete rewrite of all their key infrastructure is worth it.

and it's not.

savagetwinkie

you won't have to rewrite anything, its all windows api stuff so its just a recompile,

Windows NT 4.0 MIPS/PowerPC/Alpha says Hi. DEC Alpha EV6 even uses the same slot infrastructure (Slot B) as AMD K7 Athlon MP.

pc is not fdully backward compatible. i still cant play metal gear solid 2 on my windows seven and alot f old games that needs DOS does not work on pc.

pc-ps360

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] did you actually bother to read that? "Applications will have to be recompiled or rewritten" the things that will have to be rewritten is anything that deals with hardware like drivers, which will be mostly on the manufacturers end, but heres the thing, since arm is making a big push into mobile world, laptops... its going to be done anyway, and regular applications are just going to be recompiledsavagetwinkie

With die shrinks on x86, ARM's power savings advantages are likely to be negated, especially as we move towards 22nm and beyond. What does ARM offer on a technical level that makes it superior to x86? What is the point in recompiling software if a decent chip solution exists already? Do you work for ARM? Or are you just trolling?

Like I have said, until the future reveals itself, there is very little reason to see any hardware vendor pushing ARM onto the desktop. There's no point. Besides Linux, there is very little desktop software that runs on ARM natively - and if there are very few people who will be using an ARM desktop, what is point in recompiling software for them?

Again, either you are trolling, or you are simply delusional.

linkin a 50 nm processor, 40% of power consumption is current leakage, which grows as processors get smaller, so the 32 nm processor power consumption is likely primarly leakage current, and reducing the size will mostly only effect size and heat

ARM doesnt' actually manufacture any of their CPU's, they designed them to be modular, and with so many companies jumping aboard the arm bandwagon, ubuntu is working with arm to release a full desktop, windows 8 is coming out to support arm, it already dominates the mobile market, it will soon dominate the latptop/tablets, desktops will evetunally be arm machines, you'll loose the ability to play any old games unless you get a x86 emulator

pc is not fdully backward compatible. i still cant play metal gear solid 2 on my windows seven and alot f old games that needs DOS does not work on pc.

pc-ps360

Indeed, but everytime I try, something goes wrong . Supreme Commander on Vista, Heroes 5 on Vista, Red Alert on Vista and Starcraft on Vista, all were nightmares which had the potential to destroy my computer !!

Indeed, but everytime I try, something goes wrong . Supreme Commander on Vista, Heroes 5 on Vista, Red Alert on Vista and Starcraft on Vista, all were nightmares which had the potential to destroy my computer !!

zekere

Seems like Vista is the common problem with all your games.

[QUOTE="zekere"]

Indeed, but everytime I try, something goes wrong . Supreme Commander on Vista, Heroes 5 on Vista, Red Alert on Vista and Starcraft on Vista, all were nightmares which had the potential to destroy my computer !!

Lucianu

Seems like Vista is the common problem with all your games.

Indeed . When I buy a computer with Windows 7 later this year, I'll make a new thread .

Untill Windows Vista came out and completely ruined any compability the PC platform ever had. I'm still having issues with this PoS OS, half my games are not working or crashing randomly.

And I still can't run Master of Olympus: Zeus...:(

Up to 769 now.

1) with consoles we do this thing where we actually hold onto our old consoles. its not like when each gen comes along, our old consoles disintegrate.

2) running dos games can be a pain, especially if youre like me and you want to record your games. I dont have any of these problems with my old console games

can't use my Dazzle Platinum on Windows 7 because there's no Drivers.

PCs aren't totally Backwards Compatible.

But as Video Games are concerned I'm pretty sure they all work.

Good job? I don't have any PS2 games, but there have been some PS2 games I have always wanted to play but can't, due to a lack of BC on my PS3 Slim.

The_Capitalist

Yeah same here.

Don't hate on me, but the way i see it in a few years i guess you will be able to run emulators like people do for the Snes so you can run whatever ps2 game you wished to play but never got the chance to.