Phil Spencer: Scorpio will be reasonably priced

There is no conjures of any kind is common sense get one.

The XBOS is a shitty 7770 and a damn Jaguar with 8GB of DDR3 cheap ass memory,and cost $299 and $400 on the 2TB model.

There is no way in Hell Scorpio will be $400 when it has a GPU 4+ times as powerful a faster brand new CPU from a totally new line,and 50% more ram which is faster with higher bandwidth.

Better cooling and bigger case.

Again common sense use it,unless MS is into losing money per unit i don't see that happening.

The problem is what lemmings are arguing here is that scorpio will have just that new fresh out of the line hardware,when the PS4 and XBO came out GCN had 2 years on the PC market that is the line of GPU were the PS4 and xbox one took its GPU,so manufacturing was already cheaper than on 2011.

Vega is a totally new line and Zen is a new line too,this are 2 new hot components which cost more than old GCN and older Jaguar architecture,worse it has 50% more ram and the ram itself per GB is more expensive than the XBO DDR3 as well.

With those factors is hard to think Scorpio can cost $400 when the Pro that has weaker hardware,same CPU and same memory as the old PS4 and doesn't even have a 4k blu-ray drive cost that so does a XBOS in 2TB flavor.

Nope, you are just making your own reality because its convenient. In your imaginary world the Scorpio would be $600 in the real world it would max out at $500. If you want perspective look at the PS4 Pro. Its $400 and its almost 4 times faster than the PS4. The Scorpio is going to be roughly 50% faster than the Pro. To expect the price to be beyond $500 is brain dead. MS is selling the Xbox One S with a Blu Ray for $300 and is taking advantage of the folks who want more storage for $50 -$100 more. Around this time next year with MS aggressive pricing the Scorpio can hit $399 price mark with Xbox One being priced at $250. But its not going to surpass $500 because it would ONLY be 50% faster than the Pro.

@Pedro: Man, if that sucker launches at $399.99 or less the old saying selling like hotcakes will be replaced with selling like Scorpio. lol

I'll take two please. :P

I'm expecting at least $500, but no more than $700. Either which way, That's not that bad of a price.

How so.?

If you say so.

Ok ill look at the Pro.

4 times 1.84 = 7.36TF Shit the Pro is stronger than Scorpio before it releases.? Damn MS is DOOM..Pro is like 2.3X more powerful than normal PS4 get your facts right.

Yes and the XBO was 50% less powerful and was $100 more.

No is common sense when you see their old model pricing and what is inside the new one.

The PS4 also has a blu-ray drive what it doesn't pay for is 4k licensing.

Is not $50 more is $100 clean more for just more space.

You guys make absolutely no sense. Use some god damn common sense for once.

1. PS4 is still outselling the XB1 by a good amount in terms of WW sales.

2. PS4 Pro will be out a full year before the Scorpio at a solid price of $399.99

3. Sony can easily drop the price of the Pro to $349.99 around the time the Scorpio launches.

4. Scorpio's hardware won't be all that special in late 2017. 6+ Tflop GPU's will be available for around $150 - $170 come late 2017.

5. History has proven time and time again that regardless of hardware/features $500+ consoles don't sell well.

There will be a $399.99 Scorpio SKU, mark my words. They might also have a more expensive SKU as well (Bigger HDD, Elite Controller), but no way in hell will they not have at least one SKU priced to be competitive with the PS4 Pro.

I'm gonna guess 499 for 1TB and 599 for 2TB

I don't think the direct comparison with Pro in terms of wholesale parts price is really accurate.

GTX Titan X (Maxwell) cost 1000$ at launch, only 1 years after that, the GTX 1080 which costs 600$ came and completely destroys the Titan X in performance.

No way you can buy a 6+ TF PC for $500.

Stop spreading false information.

I have shopped for this PC and can't find it anywhere.

Even building a PC would cost you more than $600 especially including the cost of the OS and Keyboard.

lol I love how everyone is settling on $500 which still isn't ideal for a brand new console launch no matter what people think of the specs.

It's not a deal breaker but it's funny that some think the system will actually launch at $400. Delusional doesn't even begin to describe the mentality of some fanboys here.

2TB Xbone S is $400...JUST with 2TB added on, that is the price PS4 launched at! lol and people thinking MS are going to release a system with a total hardware swap out upgrading the CPU, Ram, GPU and hard drive at the same price? lol, $500 is the LEAST MS will be releasing this for. Torm is correct on this, the system will likely have 2 versions a $500 1TB and a $600 2 - 3TB version.

people have reading comprehension issues

People making up their own version of what this is supposed to mean are funny, mentioning the fact that it isn't going to cost $1000 and not something we haven't seen before ($600) let's you know that it isn't going to be prices the same as traditional launch price systems either...that's pretty much common sense if you have any kind of reading comprehension.

Yep, exactly. Might as well forget about Scorpio until E3 next year...

Scorpio shouldn't be much more expensive. People should keep in mind that the PS4Poo looks to be using the full Polaris 10 chip with a downclock for thermal reasons and perhaps yields too. MS is getting the 2017 IP block and P10 replacement with a CPU to match, and they get the economy of scale for UHD BD and 4k HDR testbed with the XBO S. $399 1TB/ $449 2TB.

Knowing Microsoft, I doubt it'll be $500 for 1TB HDD, It'll probably be around 500GB HDD for $500

For $400 I will buy one, $500 forget it, i'll wait till the price drops. That is if PS5 isn't out by then at $400

@hrt_rulz01: I wouldn't say forget, but just not enter the hype train too early :P It's gonna be much easier to hype this things when we finally know the final project and/or they show us games that take advantage of it.

Though, for me, I won't be getting either since a 4K TV is not in the plans right now (yes I know they don't need one to be used).

Vega 11 or E9550 (revised embedded Polaris 10 with 5.8 TF and up to 95 watts) has similar stream processor count, hence similar price range

Perf/watt improvements for E9550 over the original PS4 is about 3.1X

E9950's September release date to OEMs is too late for PS4 Pro's November release date to retail customers.

E9950 would be PS4 NEO Option B's 5.5 TFLOPS GPU. E9950 MXM targets gaming laptops and Apple iMac's mobile Tonga XT replacement

Vega has 4X perf/watt improvements over 28 nm AMD GPUs.

Price difference between 4 GB GDDR5 (RX-480 4GB, $225)(1) and 8 GB GDDR5-8000(RX-480 8 GB, $240)(1) is about $15. For another 4GB chips, add another $15 and remember, this is for GDDR5-8000 level quality chips.

Scorpio's 320 GB/s yields GDDR5-6700 level chips i.e. the cheaper GDDR5-7000 grade chips. It would be less than $15 for another 4 GB on top of 8 GB.

For the CPU...

Raven Ridge's ZEN LP replaces Mullins/Carrizo's Puma and Bristol Ridge's Excavator CPUs.

Puma = improve Jaguar.

Excavator = improve Bulldozer/Piledriver/Steamroller.

Reference

1. http://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=370&sort=a8&page=1

So it will be five-hundred-and-ninety-nine US dollars?

Less than $599 as both ZEN LP and Vega 11 are year 2017 drop in replacements for year 2016's Puma FinFET CPU and Polaris 10/Polaris 10 embedded GPU.

With PC hardware market, wait = more hardware for similar cost.

Am I the only one who hasn't found the part where he said it would be reasonably priced? He says it won't be a price that's unheard of for consoles. Was the $600 PS3 reasonably priced? Or the weakass Junkbox One with Kinect?

What's the MS version of 'reasonable' and where did he say that?

Anyway, more worrying is the constant bleating from all the MS PR clowns including Spencer about it being a 'premium' product. If you have heard these PR monkeys touting their wares as many times as I have you will know that's preparation for a price that will not be cheap. 'Premium console' says Phil 'I hear ya' Spencer.

Get real folks. It won't be cheap and it won't have a single solitary exclusive for its entire lifespan and is completely pointless if you have a half decent PC. I don't think the existing Xbox One user base who are happy with the odd exclusive is enough to make this thing a success assuming that they all run out and buy Scorpio day one.

PS4 NEO "Option B" has $499 price target with a new CPU and 5.5 TFLOPS GPU.

PS4 Pro is the "Option A" with $399 price target.

IF Sony waited a little longer, Polaris 10 would have been E9950's 5.8 TFLOPS and up to 95 watts which is around "NEO Option B".

$499

@ronvalencia: So what price range do you see?

@ronvalencia: Any chance Sony releases Neo ver B around Scorpio release to counter it you think?

@misterpmedia:

Actually I believe $500 for 6+ teraflops, 12 Gigs of Ram, 320+ GPS BW, Zen CPU AND a UHD Bluray player sounds about right in 2017 when you take into consideration what PS4Pro is giving you for $400 in 2016.

Me personally I rather pay $600 for 8+ Teraflops, 16 gigs of 380+ GPS BW, Full blown Zen cores, etc.

It's not 2005 any more. A Descent jump in tech is going to cost more than $400 if it also includes a Media drive, HD, etc.

I love this so now you are arguing that Scorpio has a 36CU polaris 10 refresh.?

That 12GB of faster GDDR5 is not cheaper than 8GB of DDR3 on XBO which still goes for $300 with a cheap ass cut down 7790 and a cheap jaguar.

More power more expensive,as simple as that what happen to your Zen arguments now i see you claim Jaguar and Puma improvement which mean cheap ass notebook CPU again for a 6TF GPU that doesn't bode well.

So the argument about not been able to have a full Zen on my part was right.? Thanks for admitting it.

You know something you can't change your argument to suit your MS ass kissing,5.8TF is not 6TF that mean the GPU must be OC to reach 6TF and you cry babies have been saying that scorpio will have a Vega GPU not overclock polaris,why the fu** will MS wait until 2017 to get a polaris refresh with the same 5.8TF of polaris 10 NOW.

True Vega has HMB memory whatever you see with GDDR5 is a refresh as simple as that,36CU Vega = Polaris Refresh 100% sure just like the 7870,R270,R370 that we have seen.

So if the XBO has a polaris 10 refresh yeah it could be a little cheaper depending on MS profit margin remember they are branding this like a premium model and are making sure to let the world know is more powerful that the PS4 Pro which doesn't even pay 4k blu-ray licensing use the same exact CPU and memory and cost $400 man.

The titan X was more than $1000 on launch by year 1 on the market wasn't $600,what you are talking about is probably the 980TI,the Titan X remained very expensive and while the GTX 1080 beat it and cost less the Titan X is a compute monster is not just for gaming like the 1080 which is why they are so expensive.

That applies to Pro even more as by the time Scorpio enter manufacturing its parts are at the peak of its cost,a year latter it is cheaper,Pro has 1 year head start so at the point of entry of entry of Scorpio manufacturing a Pro will be cheaper than now.

So even if by a miracle Scorpio is $400 Sony can have a $299 Pro on stores by 2017.

Another deluded fanboy who simple is out of touch with reality...lol

The XBOS 2TB is $400 not $349,anyone who thinks a 2TB version will cost just $50 more than a 1TB version or less simple is out of touch with reality and don't know how pricing has being not just now SINCE LAST GEN.

Were an elite 360 and premium PS3 always basically were $100 more clean than regular model,$50 is not a big enough delta and doesn't leave room for profits which is the sole intention of those extra space models,they basically charged you $100 for a HDD that cost them $40 or $50 tops probably and given them a huge profit margin.

So MS will use a refresh polaris now that mean 1266mhz or faster that mean heat,than mean better cooling is need it,and that also mean OC as the fresh probably will not be full 6TF for example the 7850 is 1.86TF the R265 its refresh is 1.89TF the delta is just 30Gflops more.

So that mean OC which you people have slam me for saying,or implying..

Again waiting 1 year to get a refresh polaris just mean 1 thing MS was catch pants down by sony and by the time they knew about Pro it was too late.

Economy scale affect all consoles,if a Pro is $400 now with exactly the same memory and CPU as the PS4 with no 4k UHD drive and is $400 what do you think scorpio will cost with.

A refresh polaris 10(AMD always does this to keep the price high on the same model)

A new Zen Based CPU. (which is what lemmings are claiming to be in)

4GB more of Ram (which is more expensive than DDR3 inside the xbox one which still goes for $300 and $400)

UHD Drive and licensing.

Better cooling and bigger case.

There is no way it is $400 even less $449 with a 2TB HDD you simply are out of touch with reality.

There's very little chance. 7nm FinFET Vega 20 and NAVI 2xx mm^2 medium size GPUs are the next jumps from AMD. They should be about 2X the power over Vega 11.

Vega 20 seems to be Vega 10 as a 7 nm FinFET version i.e. turns 14 nm FinFET 4xx mm^2 size chip into 2xx mm^2 size chip. This seems to be another half gen jump after Vega 10 and 11.

NAVI 10 and 11 are the real 7 nm FinFET designs.

E9550 is part of year 2016 IP block NOT year 2017 IP block. MS has stated AMD's year 2017 IP Block for Scorpio.

E9550 didn't fully reach 6 TFLOPS mark i.e. 3.1 perf/watt is close but not close enough. E9550 is most likely for this year's Apple iMacs. Apple consumed most of mobile Tonga XT supply until R9-380X era. AMD has two foundries to handle FinFET Polaris 10 i.e. TSMC and Global Foundry. Sony has one of the foundry.

PC's Polaris 10 fabrication is handled by Global Foundry. FX ZEN is currently being fabricated on Global Foundry.

Both PS4 Slim and Xbox One S are already on TSMC's 16 nm FinFET.

Samsung's extra 14 nm FinFET fabs are on standby if AMD needs additional FinFET fab capacity for either ZEN or Polaris 10.

I'm using E9550 example to show Vega's 4X perf/watt improvement is not a pipe dream.

@tormentos:

Don't be so butthurt. I'm telling you there's no way MS is putting a overclocked RX 480 into the Scorpio. Sony is running the Poo's GPU core at 911MHz for a reason, so expecting 1300MHz in a console form-factor...lulz.

The PS4Poo is getting old shit. Scorpio is getting next-year's tech. MS isn't going near that $499 price tag again. Quote me on it.

@gamecubepad:

Oh i juat quote you saying scorpio would get polaris 10 replacement which i am 100% sure is a refresh which mean equal or faster clock speed than normal polaris.

So basically you are contradicting your self..

@tormentos:

The level of mental gymnastics you are capable of never ceases to amaze me. It will be a semi-custom Vega variant and there's no way it's clocking in at ~1300MHz when Sony is having thermal issues in the 900s. Sony is getting old shit, just admit it. It's not hard to be powerful or affordable in comparison. They had to throttle by 25% and they're stuck with an old CPU.

Scorpio will not be $599 like you're praying. I guarantee you they will not touch the $499.99 price point.

Vega 11 has GFX9 IP.

http://videocardz.com/63700/exclusive-first-details-about-amd-vega10-and-vega20

"We have also learned that AMD is planning to replace Polaris 10 with Vega 11 next year"

Vega = GFX9 architecture.

FIJI = GFX8 architecture

Polaris = GFX81 architecture.

Hawaii = GFX7 architecture.

GFX(insert a generation number) is AMD's internal codename to denote the architecture design.

http://www.thecountrycaller.com/77368-advanced-micro-devices-inc-amd-vega-10-and-vega-11-spotted-in-crimson-driver/

Videocardz has unearthed the keywords “VEGA 10” and VEGA 11” from the OpenCL driver present in the current Crimson software. The list includes:

SI: TAHITI

CI / GFX7: MILOS, KRYPTOS, HAWAII, NEVIS, PENNAR, BONAIRE, Kabini

VI / GFX8: ICELAND, TONGA, CARRIZO, BERMUDA, racerx, FIJI

GFX81: AMUR, STONEY, ELLESMERE, DERECHO

GFX9: GREENDLAND, RAVEN1X, VEGA 10, VEGA 11

PS; ELLESMERE aka Polaris 10

Bullshit you double standard amaze me so does your incredibly naive vision of PC or on purpose omission of how things have being on PC with AMD since 2011.

GCN was born on 2011,since then the first line has seen 3 different refresh which were basically little better and then previous one.

7850,R265,R370.

7850 = 860mhz 1.86TF.

R265 = 925mhz 1.89TF

R370 = 975mhz 2.0TF.

All are the same shit refresh with some minor improvements,as you can see every single improvement port higher clock speed not lower.

So using this as base we can see how with ease a refresh 480,can be even faster next year stock instead of 1266mhz,1300mhz or close,so yeah using a refresh RX480 would mean high clocks,again with the xbox one having a huge case, and huge fan i don't see how MS can't do another huge case and another huge fan.

Who the fu** is saying sony is having thermal issues.? Please link me to those because i didn't read about any PS4 Pro overheating issues.

BY the way no one is praying for a $600 price,i just talked about how MS can have a model priced that high.

This is what will happen next E3,MS will walk on stage parading about how they created the most powerful console in existence,which also play 4k blu-rays and play all games in 4k,after that they will announce after some hard time trying to convince everyone that a 6TF GPU is the most powerful thing on the planet,that the console is $499 dollars,latter one you will find about the 2 or 3 TB model which is limited edition which is $100.

Considering that you claim a 2TB model will be just $50 more than a base model,that simple confirm to me that you are simple as clueless as Blackace or any other die hard lemm.

Even when the XBOS slapping you in the face at a $400 price with a shitty 7790 cut down and a jaguar with cheap ass DDR3 as memory, somehow you think a Vega based Zen based 12GB of GDDDR5 console with 2TB HDD will cost $50 more than a XBOS is now..lol

You are deluded...

@tormentos:

Teach me your ways, Master!

tormentos said:

I don't think $200 GPU will be on Neo level considering it is a Polaris 10 GPU with 36CU,that one is say to be like $300+ on PC and deliver R390X like performance.

The NEO ended up like a 380x just like @04dcarraher predicted. You can get a RX 470 right now for $165 and it's ~20% more powerful than the NEO with a little OC.

Sooo...totally fill me in on how the NEO will perform like a $300 390x and how the Scorpio will be $600 and have a Polaris 10 clocked at 1300MHz. I'm dying to hear.

That is true, but to be fair, the Scorpio is not the standard/baseline model. Its okay to have a high-end system as long as you have a low-end system for people to purchase if they refuse to get the high-end model. Keep in mind Scorpio and XBO can both play the same games.

Nice that was before polaris 10 was even reveal to be $200 in fact you can see it in the fact that you CLAIM $200 too,which is a joke because the full polaris 10 is $200 and being sold for a little over now,but the 4GB version was $200 and is stronger than the one on PS4 Pro so you were wrong to.

So again the XBOS is a slap to your face lemming,it is $400 with a 2TB HDD,a jaguar,8GB of DDR3 and a pathetic cut down 7790, and is freaking $400 and somehow you believe that a Vega based Zen based 12GB GDDR5 Scorpio with better performance than the competition will be $400 and $450..lol

Call me when the plane arrive..

The plane boss the plane...

@tormentos:

If anything the $400 4K/HDR/UHD-BD 2016 console supports the narrative that MS won't push to $500. Sony UHPH1 runs $300 right now, MS has no incentive to drop below that mark with a full blast 2TB console.

You are clearly not in a position to be predicting prices, Tomato.

There's going to be a big gap between the consoles. The Poo is getting old tech. It's a PS4 with a Polaris 10 downclocked by 25%. Scorpio is getting next year's tech.

As opposed to unreasonably priced?...

Scorpio will most likely be running on a matured Polaris silicon or even gimped Vega chip. With matured Polaris they can run it with higher clocks to reach the 6 TFLOP target even with 36-40CU based gpu. Also lets not forget the fact that Scorpio has a real chance to use something other than Jaguar cpu ie AMD's Zen based cpu architecture.

Between the PS4 Pro running a gpu only slightly better than a 380X at 970mhz and to the fact that its using a 2.1 GHZ Jaguar which bottlenecks the gpu any way you slice it.

Sony was caught off guard with their pants down.

$500...that's what they'll charge.

For a suped up XBone with some 4K capabilities, most of which will be upscaling. Nevermind the fact that unless you've recently bought a 4K TV or plan on buying one within the next year...what the hell is the point in dropping cash on a Scorpio or a PS Pro if you already own a PS4 or XBone?

This "next gen" of systems isn't inspiring at all.

I'll just beef up my PC and see what the PS5 or XBwhatever has to offer when they come rolling down the pike in 2019 just as sure as the sun settles in the west.

I think he didn't say a specific price because it isn't decided. If xbox one s continues to show improved sales the price will probably stay the same 500 gb $300 1tb $350 2tb $400 the the scorpio will probably be $100 or $ 50 extra over all of those prices with the same options.

R.I.P NX, dead before you were born.

Sony on the other hand, will probably have an answer for this before too long.