PlayStation 3/Xbox 360 Graphics Gap Will Start To Widen

It started with Uncharted, then it continued with Metal Gear Solid IV, and it is about to happen again with Killzone 2 later this month. The gap is still small but it's definitely there and I do think it will widen (with Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2).AppleBlade

[QUOTE="snakes3425"]Graphics don't always make the gameCharlie901

Even PC's would struggle with the KZ2 engine.Martin_G_N

Indeed. We all know that it is possible to download more powerful hardware through the internet.foxhound_fox

It might be strange,but i belive that xbox 360 have potential to make bether looking games

Why? because devs have easier time making stuff and such they can spend more time on polish

_rpg_FAN

[QUOTE="AppleBlade"]It started with Uncharted, then it continued with Metal Gear Solid IV, and it is about to happen again with Killzone 2 later this month. The gap is still small but it's definitely there and I do think it will widen (with Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2).Fumpa

[QUOTE="_rpg_FAN"]

It might be strange,but i belive that xbox 360 have potential to make bether looking games

Why? because devs have easier time making stuff and such they can spend more time on polish

Pariah_001

[QUOTE="adman66"][QUOTE="AppleBlade"]It started with Uncharted, then it continued with Metal Gear Solid IV, and it is about to happen again with Killzone 2 later this month. The gap is still small but it's definitely there and I do think it will widen (with Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2).Martin_G_N

It might be strange,but i belive that xbox 360 have potential to make bether looking games

Why? because devs have easier time making stuff and such they can spend more time on polish

[QUOTE="snakes3425"]Graphics don't always make the gameCharlie901

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^ Theh developers will need to work on incorporationg ray-tracking and other stuff like hardware tesselation-physics.

>

^ Theh developers will need to work on incorporationg ray-tracking and other stuff like hardware tesselation-physics.

DOF_power

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^ Yes but exactly is out right now or comming ?!

I'd really like games with ray-tracing, hardware tesselation-physics, displacement mapping and plenty of (volumetric) volumetric effects.

But the consoles are holding back development.

One day I hope for fully dictructible enviroments with full per-poly collision detection.

>

^ Yes but exactly is out right now or comming ?!

I'd really like games with ray-tracing, hardware tesselation-physics, displacement mapping and plenty of (volumetric) volumetric effects.

But the consoles are holding back development.

One day I hope for fully dictructible enviroments with full per-poly collision detection.

DOF_power

>

^ Yeah, but Clear Sky is the king of volumetric effects. Everything else is everything else.

It might be strange,but i belive that xbox 360 have potential to make bether looking games

Why? because devs have easier time making stuff and such they can spend more time on polish

_rpg_FAN

You meant software right?PSdual_wielder

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"][QUOTE="adman66"] you do realize how long mgs4 and kz2 dev time is right compared to games like gears or war ? not sure about uncharted but mgs4 and kz2 have like 4-5 years dev time compared to 1-2 for gears o wait its not that its teh power of tha cell!!!!!!ronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"] That's because the PS3 had to use a totally new engine built for the PS3 and not anything else. Gears 2 uses the UE3 engine that has been upgraded and developed over a period as long or longer as KZ2 dev time. It's a fact that the PS3 can't use the engines based on the X360 properly, because they are'nt utilizing the cell. Even PC's would struggle with the KZ2 engine. Martin_G_N

Ok. I'm not saying they are'nt using the SPE's, but to take full advantage of all of them takes time. Most games uses 2 SPE's, while KZ2 uses 6. And I know the GPU's out now are awesome, but the developers are'nt exactly taking use of those quad cores in your PC either, you can buy the best CPU you can get for a PC and you'll only gain what?? 5-10fps at best. The Cell can handle physics, animation, 3d rendering (helping out the slow GPU) and 7.1 surround while having some of the best graphics. The X360 and PC's CPU and bandwidth would rather die than try doing that. Maybe the graphics won't be a lot better, but the animation, physics and sound will be.
isukuno

In nVidia's example, DX10 GPU does the following workloads

1. Physical simulation on control points

2. Interpolate and tessellate control points

3. Save tessellated hairs to memory

4. Render hair to deep shadow map

5. Render hair to back buffer

Crysis DX10 on Vista mostly use one CPU processor core. CELL is a good match for DX9 type GPU e.g. RSX.

Doesn't Crysis utilize the CPU more heavilly than the GPU? I heard somewhere from someone that you could have a really great GPU but if your CPU wasn't so hot Crysis still won't run very well...?

isukuno

In Radeon HD's raytracing example, most of the rendering performance comes from the GPU. Like PS3's PPE, PC's CPU is just the control processor.

Uncharted, Killzone 2, Heavy Rain, and GT5 says hello.

Imagine if epic spent 4 years making Gears of War 2 lol

Im sure it would look the same as gears 1, just like gears 2 did

Wow this is a GamePro.com low. :lol:

Seriously the ps3 is pretty much done for. There will be no come backs. It wont die but will stay in 3rd place. It might as well just be dead, sony pull the plug like sega did with the DC. But They wont.

[QUOTE="snakes3425"]Graphics don't always make the gameCharlie901

[QUOTE="_rpg_FAN"]

It might be strange,but i belive that xbox 360 have potential to make bether looking games

Why? because devs have easier time making stuff and such they can spend more time on polish

Ragashahs

Thats a load of crap and you know it hardware is hardware its how the Hardware designers open up options to the developers that determines what type of content can be created. Directly from a PR rep he stated that a console is something that should be unlocked through spending time with the hardware blah blah blah. The fact remains if you want developers to develop for your console you Create user friendly tolls and give them the specifics they need to develop game engines. Thats why KZ2 still isnt out cause Sony doesn't even know what there doing and dont care about there developers. The PS3 was a Bluray player first and foremost thats why when Sony tried to cut costs they took out PS2 BC. Hell I would have already bought a PS3 by now if it wasnt for that.

Ok. I'm not saying they are'nt using the SPE's, but to take full advantage of all of them takes time. Most games uses 2 SPE's, while KZ2 uses 6. And I know the GPU's out now are awesome, but the developers are'nt exactly taking use of those quad cores in your PC either, you can buy the best CPU you can get for a PC and you'll only gain what?? 5-10fps at best. The Cell can handle physics, animation, 3d rendering (helping out the slow GPU) and 7.1 surround while having some of the best graphics. The X360 and PC's CPU and bandwidth would rather die than try doing that. Maybe the graphics won't be a lot better, but the animation, physics and sound will be.

Martin_G_N

PowerPC cpu's can easily handle all of the features you mention there lol. Don't forget that both the 360 Zenos and the Cells main CPU are stripped down and lack many features PC cpus have. Just because the Cell has a few spu's tacked on does not make for a revolution in architecture for gaming. Sony's hype does though lol.

[QUOTE="adman66"][QUOTE="AppleBlade"]It started with Uncharted, then it continued with Metal Gear Solid IV, and it is about to happen again with Killzone 2 later this month. The gap is still small but it's definitely there and I do think it will widen (with Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2).Martin_G_N

Ok. I'm not saying they are'nt using the SPE's, but to take full advantage of all of them takes time. Most games uses 2 SPE's, while KZ2 uses 6. And I know the GPU's out now are awesome, but the developers are'nt exactly taking use of those quad cores in your PC either, you can buy the best CPU you can get for a PC and you'll only gain what?? 5-10fps at best. The Cell can handle physics, animation, 3d rendering (helping out the slow GPU) and 7.1 surround while having some of the best graphics. The X360 and PC's CPU and bandwidth would rather die than try doing that. Maybe the graphics won't be a lot better, but the animation, physics and sound will be.

Martin_G_N

CELL doesn't have specialised functions such as AA, Filters, ROPS, Texturing, Early-Z-cull, Z-Cull, PureVideo (another SIMD co-processor) to reduce the burden on its stream processors.

Unlike CELL's 7 SPE 896 total register count, G8X's register count numbers in the thousandsEach 8 SP cluster block, it has 8192 32bit registers (32K) i.e. data stored next to the execution units. For example, G84 (Geforce 8600GT) has four of these 8 SP cluster block. A total of 32768 registers. In terms of bandwidth speed, it's registers > L1 cache/local memory > L2 cache > memory.

Read PDF Page 31,39, 32. Since RSX is based on G70, RSX's specialised functions is not robust as "fat" mainstream D3D 10 GPUs.

NVIDIA's PhysX can scales on multi-core CPUs. NVIDIA's PhysX also runs CUDA enabled GPUs.

[QUOTE="adman66"][QUOTE="AppleBlade"]It started with Uncharted, then it continued with Metal Gear Solid IV, and it is about to happen again with Killzone 2 later this month. The gap is still small but it's definitely there and I do think it will widen (with Heavy Rain and Uncharted 2).Martin_G_N

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

Ok. I'm not saying they are'nt using the SPE's, but to take full advantage of all of them takes time. Most games uses 2 SPE's, while KZ2 uses 6. And I know the GPU's out now are awesome, but the developers are'nt exactly taking use of those quad cores in your PC either, you can buy the best CPU you can get for a PC and you'll only gain what?? 5-10fps at best. The Cell can handle physics, animation, 3d rendering (helping out the slow GPU) and 7.1 surround while having some of the best graphics. The X360 and PC's CPU and bandwidth would rather die than try doing that. Maybe the graphics won't be a lot better, but the animation, physics and sound will be.

DAZZER7

PowerPC cpu's can easily handle all of the features you mention there lol. Don't forget that both the 360 Zenos and the Cells main CPU are stripped down and lack many features PC cpus have. Just because the Cell has a few spu's tacked on does not make for a revolution in architecture for gaming. Sony's hype does though lol.

>

^ Another major issue is that the cell doesn't have branch predictor.

This and the 8/7 SPE aproach of the Cell are the reasons why John Carmack, Gabe Newell and Tim Sweeney dislike/hate the PS3.

...

So why aren't those multicores used ?!

it "takes about twice the effort and development cost to develop for a multi-threaded CPU," compared to a single-core CPU. Even more than that, according to Epic's analysis, fully exploiting the PS3 Cell chip "required about 5 times as much cost and development time than single-core."

Tim Sweeney

CPU multicore optimisation = times + money.

Besides the GPGPUs can now do both graphics/rendering and tesselation/physics/collision detection.

>

^ Another major issue is that the cell doesn't have branch predictor.

This and the 8/7 SPE aproach of the Cell are the reasons why John Carmack, Gabe Newell and Tim Sweeney dislike/hate the PS3.

...

So why aren't those multicores used ?!

[quote="Tim Sweeney"]

it "takes about twice the effort and development cost to develop for a multi-threaded CPU," compared to a single-core CPU. Even more than that, according to Epic's analysis, fully exploiting the PS3 Cell chip "required about 5 times as much cost and development time than single-core."

DOF_power

CPU multicore optimisation = times + money.

Besides the GPGPUs can now do both graphics/rendering and tesselation/physics/collision detection.