Pre-owned games suffer legal threat

You have yet to claim how it is a fallacy.

JLF1

It's already a presumption that this ruling will have ramifications on games.

To presume that it will result in an effect on automobiles, based on making the license on software that runs a car non-transferrable, on the assumption that the software is currently licensed at all anyway, is a slippery slope.

Essentially you and others are saying that such a ruling will have far reaching ramifications on every single piece of machinery with a microprogram control module, when the likelihood of it doing so are not high.

To presume that it will result in an effect on automobiles based on "copyrighting a car" as you originally did is outlandish.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]
You have yet to claim how it is a fallacy.

shinrabanshou

It's already a presumption that this ruling will have ramifications on games.

To presume that it will result in an effect on automobiles, based on making the license on software that runs a car non-transferrable, on the assumption that the software is currently licensed at all anyway, is a slippery slope.

To presume that it will result in an effect on automobiles based on "copyrighting a car" as you originally did is outlandish.

I don't care because i don't play on consoles.

That article was only refering to AutoCAD. AutoCAD is a licensed software, unlike a game. A licensed software is something like Unreal Engine 3. If you 'buy' Unreal Engine 3 from say...Epic, you do not become the owner of the engine, but rather Epic is granting you the license to use their engine, but adhering to their rules. Softwares like AutoCAD, Soild Edge, ANSYS, HYSYS or any other simulation/drawing softwares are examples of licensed softwares. The AutoCAD license even requires you to pay monthly (per computer installed with the software).

It's a different thing altogether. Think about it, if i bought CryEngine 3 from Crytek, do you think Crytek would allow me to sell it over the internet to any Tom Dick and Harry? Of course not.

Um, every car-model is copyrighted already.

JLF1

It's been brought up above the software in control modules may be protected by copyright. Even with that in mind, it's still a slippery slope of an argument.

I'll reiterate that it's essentially saying that such a ruling will have far reaching ramifications on every single piece of machinery with a microprogram control module(s), including such things as cars, when the likelihood of it doing so are not high.

What about older used games? Are they gonna try to bust in to people's houses and confiscate used games out of people's collections? :lol:

If more people in general are buying less games due to them being more expensive overall it would mean less profits in the long run for game companies. Honestly I can't prove my theory it is just my own opinion and I am not trying to state it as a cold hard fact. We will just have to see what happenstestfactor888

Thats **** you get virtually nothing off for buying a game Used as it stands right now anyway. I doubt that a $5 price increase is going to prevent many people from buying a product.

What about older used games? Are they gonna try to bust in to people's houses and confiscate used games out of people's collections? :lol:

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="JLF1"]Um, every car-model is copyrighted already.

shinrabanshou

It's been brought up above the software in control modules may be protected by copyright. Even with that in mind, it's still a slippery slope of an argument.

I'll reiterate that it's essentially saying that such a ruling will have far reaching ramifications on every single piece of machinery with a microprogram control module(s), including such things as cars, when the likelihood of it doing so are not high.

Hey, I'm not saying it will happen. It is a possibility in the future though and as I've said before a worst case scenario. Long after used games, books and DVDs have become illegal.

I just don't like it that some people are arguing that it is no big deal. For one it could mean that every game, book or DVD you own will become worthless.

You are actually a drain on the gaming industry. You provide nothing to developers or publishers. Used games are as harmful as piracy.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

You are actually a drain on the gaming industry. You provide nothing to developers or publishers. Used games are as harmful as piracy.JLF1

Hey, I'm not saying it will happen. It is a possibility in the future though and as I've said before a worst case scenario. Long after used games, books and DVDs have become illegal.

I just don't like it that some people are arguing that it is no big deal. For one it could mean that every game, book or DVD you own will become worthless.

JLF1

I don't think it will have any impact whatsoever on cars, dishwashers, washing machines, toasters, etc. and it's an unnecessary argument. The actual things it affects are significant enough themselves.

----

Personally, I doubt it will affect me significantly, as I largely buy new and horde things forever.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]Hey, I'm not saying it will happen. It is a possibility in the future though and as I've said before a worst case scenario. Long after used games, books and DVDs have become illegal.

I just don't like it that some people are arguing that it is no big deal. For one it could mean that every game, book or DVD you own will become worthless.

shinrabanshou

I don't think it will have any impact whatsoever on cars, dishwashers, washing machines, toasters, etc. and it's an unnecessary argument. The actual things it affects are significant enough themselves.

----

Personally, I doubt it will affect me significantly, as I largely buy new and horde things forever.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

You are actually a drain on the gaming industry. You provide nothing to developers or publishers. Used games are as harmful as piracy.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

And I will use the old and tired yet fully valid counter-argument:

I take it that you don't buy any product used then? :)

JLF1

i am so sick of company's trying to control the way we use software that WE PAID FOR

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]

You are actually a drain on the gaming industry. You provide nothing to developers or publishers. Used games are as harmful as piracy.blue_hazy_basic

So retro gamers and people who like games from the last gen are just as bad as pirates?

I do find it funny that a capitalist system tries to introduce anti-capitalist laws like this.

I don't have a problem with this since I don't buy used or sell my games. Sucks for Gamestop but they brought it on themselves and I hope they continue to burn for it.

i am so sick of company's trying to control the way we use software that WE PAID FOR

dontshackzmii

You didn't buy it.. You bought license that ONLY YOU are suppose to use.. And you have no permission to offhandedly..

So what happens to Gamefly?

[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="cobrax25"]

Thats **** you get virtually nothing off for buying a game Used as it stands right now anyway. I doubt that a $5 price increase is going to prevent many people from buying a product.

blue_hazy_basic

What I don't understand is you paid to use it, so what is the issue with reselling and you forfeiting your rights to use it and simply giving it to someone else? The company already got the money for that product, and the person that an owner sold it to is buying from them for a reason, because they can't afford it at the price they are selling at. So I don't see where they are losing money.

Guess this will just become another criminal industry. A black market for used games. Sounds kinda fun actually :P

Calling up someone on your phone asking if they got any copies of the new Halo used. Meeting them in a random parking lot to make the transaction. Both parties driving off with a smile on their face. Sounds interesting :)

Whether used games should be legal or not is a moot point. Comparison to cars is pointless. The point is this will drive up the cost of gaming. I remember when I was going through school, without much disposable income, I would go to Gamestop and buy tons of old PS2 used games. I'd get old editions of sports games for 99 cents. That was what brought me back to gaming. Now that I have money, I rarely buy used.

If the industry really wants to stop used games, then just sell digitally. Screw Bestbuy, gamestop and the middle man. If the 360 had an online store (which they do now) and sold new games as well and stopped digitally distributing, there wouldn't be a used market.

I don't even mind publishers and developers getting more money if they can prevent the second hand market. What bothers me is that they use this to keep the price of games high.

While i'm on their side for most of the argument of second hand and definately against piracy, the problem is big companies want to have it all without compromise. I have a big problem with always having to pay full price. Many games are a lot shorter than they would have been last gen as well.

Look at how long Activision keep the prices of their games high. The main reason I didn't buy modern warfare 1 and 2 is because i'm not much of a multiplayer person and I heard the single player is really short... so why would I shell out over £30 (over a year after release for example) for that.

If after 6 months brand new games were £20, i'm happy with that. Thats seems fair for both sides. Early adopters pay full price of between £29.99 and £39.99 and 6 months later it's £19.99.

What I don't understand is you paid to use it, so what is the issue with reselling and you forfeiting your rights to use it and simply giving it to someone else? The company already got the money for that product, and the person that an owner sold it to is buying from them for a reason, because they can't afford it at the price they are selling at. So I don't see where they are losing money.

xscrapzx

You want Game X. A new copy of Game X is being sold for Price Y. A used copy is being sold for Price Z. Price Z < Price Y. Those who aren't diehard gamers and/or who're comfortable with used game quality will buy used even if the difference between Price Z and Y is minimal. Game X which could've been bought new has been bought used. Money goes to Retailer W, not Developer V.

Guess this will just become another criminal industry. A black market for used games. Sounds kinda fun actually :P

Calling up someone on your phone asking if they got any copies of the new Halo used. Meeting them in a random parking lot to make the transaction. Both parties driving off with a smile on their face. Sounds interesting :)

testfactor888

It really does sound like fun. :lol:

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]This is a win for gaming.testfactor888

I don't see how this will hurt publishers at all, the way they see it people in your situation wouldn't be buying the game at all. Sure you would be buying less games but how many of those lost game sales would directly affect the publisher? As far as they are concerned it wouldn't affect them at all, only gamestop and other used sales. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen in gaming, alot of people are as you said, on tight budgets and that would hurt them the most.

[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]This is a win for gaming.Espada12

I don't see how this will hurt publishers at all, the way they see it people in your situation wouldn't be buying the game at all. Sure you would be buying less games but how many of those lost game sales would directly affect the publisher? As far as they are concerned it wouldn't affect them at all, only gamestop and other used sales. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen in gaming, alot of people are as you said, on tight budgets and that would hurt them the most.

People aren't stupid. They are not going to pay $60 for something that is worthless. At least in the numbers they are know.

Publishers will not be hurt when people who only bought used won't be able to but there are a lot of people that a paying the $60 simply because they can sell it back for $20-15.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="testfactor888"] Far from it actually. Most people do not have tons of disposable income. If they are forced to purchase every game new at full retail price they will just purchase less games. Also the used game market was a means of competition that drove some prices to more reasonable levels. This will also increase piracy Personally if this actually succeeds in eliminating the used game market than I am one customer who will likely be taking most of my money elsewhere. I doubt I am alone in that either. They will lose more money than they save with this decisionJLF1

I don't see how this will hurt publishers at all, the way they see it people in your situation wouldn't be buying the game at all. Sure you would be buying less games but how many of those lost game sales would directly affect the publisher? As far as they are concerned it wouldn't affect them at all, only gamestop and other used sales. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen in gaming, alot of people are as you said, on tight budgets and that would hurt them the most.

People aren't stupid. They are not going to pay $60 for something that is worthless. At least in the numbers they are know.

Publishers will not be hurt when people who only bought used won't be able to but there are a lot of people that a paying the $60 simply because they can sell it back for $20-15.

I do find it funny that a capitalist system tries to introduce anti-capitalist laws like this.

Pixel-Pirate

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"][QUOTE="cobrax25"]Thats **** you get virtually nothing off for buying a game Used as it stands right now anyway. I doubt that a $5 price increase is going to prevent many people from buying a product.Hexagon_777

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I do find it funny that a capitalist system tries to introduce anti-capitalist laws like this.

Bigboi500

These laws are hardly "anti-capitalist".. They protect their property.. People seem not to understand when you buy the game.. Your paying for the license that only you are suppose to use.. You can't use the game for your own profit or what not.. Its quite simple really.. This is intellectual property, and the real value you get with the game is not the disc, but the information upon it.

Aren't you just a sweetheart. The game industry will be harmed by this more than helped.testfactor888

It's cooler when you provide arguments. Like for example, a guy not buying a game new and a guy not buying a game have essentially the same impact to the developer: zero profit. You could argue that by playing an used gears of war copy, they will buy gears of war2 new. But hey, they could also be unimpressed and not buy a geow2 copy, while maybe without trying the first they would have. Hypothetical cases are fun to make.

Although I believe we should actually be able to sell them secondhand. If we do it's 80% of the time devs fault. They make a product that doesn't live to the standards they claim and you are there with a broken promise and no way to get a refund. So this is the only way to teach them in those cases.

Do any of you guys even know how much AutoCad goes for? The newest edition can go up to 5 Grand.

Compared to a $30 dollar used game, there's a reason this went to court.

[QUOTE="testfactor888"]Aren't you just a sweetheart. The game industry will be harmed by this more than helped.blitzcloud

It's cooler when you provide arguments. Like for example, a guy not buying a game new and a guy not buying a game have essentially the same impact to the developer: zero profit. You could argue that by playing an used gears of war copy, they will buy gears of war2 new. But hey, they could also be unimpressed and not buy a geow2 copy, while maybe without trying the first they would have. Hypothetical cases are fun to make.

Although I believe we should actually be able to sell them secondhand. If we do it's 80% of the time devs fault. They make a product that doesn't live to the standards they claim and you are there with a broken promise and no way to get a refund. So this is the only way to teach them in those cases.

[QUOTE="PandaBear86"]I wonder if something similar will happen to used cars? :Sshinrabanshou

Do any of you guys even know how much AutoCad goes for? The newest edition can go up to 5 Grand.

Compared to a $30 dollar used game, there's a reason this went to court.

People aren't stupid. They are not going to pay $60 for something that is worthless. At least in the numbers they are know.

Publishers will not be hurt when people who only bought used won't be able to but there are a lot of people that a paying the $60 simply because they can sell it back for $20-15.

JLF1

Do you have proof of this? Because as far I know most people buy new games to play them. If what you say is true then people will just stop gaming, and I highly doubt that's true.

So is this just in the US?

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I do find it funny that a capitalist system tries to introduce anti-capitalist laws like this.

sSubZerOo

These laws are hardly "anti-capitalist".. They protect their property.. People seem not to understand when you buy the game.. Your paying for the license that only you are suppose to use.. You can't use the game for your own profit or what not.. Its quite simple really.. This is intellectual property, and the real value you get with the game is not the disc, but the information upon it.

Most PC games nowadays have a blurb saying "acceptance of end user license agreement required to play" on the System Requirements. If it does take hold, console games may soon follow.