PS3 Eventual Sales

[QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Ukapx"]

once that happens, Wii will be at $149-199 and xbox360 at $199-249.

just like you expect ps3 sales to increase with a price drop, you can expect the same for the other consoles.

ogvampire

The boost from a price-cut will have a much greater impact on the PS3, and last long than the 360/Wii imo.

and your reason is...?

The main reason for the PS3 not selling well is price/lack of games.

my question is why?

if all things equal, and each console gets a price drop at the same time, why would the ps3's price drop have a greater impact and last longer?

That is the why. As of now the main reason why PS3 is not selling is because it is far to expensive and/or it has no games. For the Wii and 360 this is not the case.

ok. besides blu-ray, what advantage does the ps3 have over the 360? they share 80% of their games.

360 costs less, has way more games. so by your logic, it should outsell the ps3 with a price drop.

The 360 has a far better games libary, has games for people that are attratcted to it i.e. shooters, Gears etc, hell it even has more RPGs than the PS3. It is at a relatively reasonable price. The 360 has reached its high point, Most of the people that want a 360 have one.

The PS3 is the complete opposite of that, and is still outselling the 360. Lots of people that want a PS3 have not got one due to the price/lack of decent/selection of games. Same cannot be said for the 360.

hmm, a bit of historical curiosity.

Have any console managed to make a major comback 2.5 years after start of the generation?

From what I can remember, no console so far managed this.

I can easily see PS3 and 360 not reaching anywhere near the 120 million PS2 userbase, why do I think this? THey both "require" a HDTV,,, something that the vast majority of this world can't afford.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="nohnaimer"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]

Not necessarily 3-4 years, the price will come down before that. And yeah, I know a lot of them have moved onto the Wii, that's why I doubt all 127 million will buy a PS3.

But obviously a lot of PS2 owners will go to PS3 once GT5, FF13, GOW3 etc all arrive with a $300 or less price tag. Let's not forget, it beat the 360 last year despite the high price and lack of heavy hitters.

Floppy_Jim

Brand loyaty is very weak in the video game market, so I really don't buy that just becasue people bought a PS2, they'll likely buy a PS3. Just look at previous history.

I dunno, Sony seem to have a very loyal fanbase. Maybe moreso than Nintendo. Especially in Europe- the PS3 has overtaken the 360 there despite the 16 month head start. If it wasn't for brand loyalty, I doubt the PS3 would have outsold the 360 last year. The PS brand is still pretty friggin' powerful.

how can that be when Europe was sony land last gen, yet the Wii has vastly outsold the ps3 this gen?

loyal fanbase argument has not been proven in any way

Because of the huge price difference. Come on, if the PS3 and Wii were the same price, we all know who would be winning. And the gap between PS3 and Wii in Europe is a lot smaller than the gaps in Japan and America. I'm just saying brand loyalty is one of the reasons the PS3 is doing well, especially in Europe.

For example:

The PS3 has sold more consoles in Europe than America.

Meanwhile, the Wii and 360 have sold more consoles in America than Europe.

Europe just loves the PS brand.

the people with brand loyalty would have bought a ps3 already, they wouldnt be waiting for the price to come down. thats what brand loyalty is...

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Ukapx"]

once that happens, Wii will be at $149-199 and xbox360 at $199-249.

just like you expect ps3 sales to increase with a price drop, you can expect the same for the other consoles.

Ukapx

The boost from a price-cut will have a much greater impact on the PS3, and last long than the 360/Wii imo.

and your reason is...?

The main reason for the PS3 not selling well is price/lack of games.

my question is why?

if all things equal, and each console gets a price drop at the same time, why would the ps3's price drop have a greater impact and last longer?

That is the why. As of now the main reason why PS3 is not selling is because it is far to expensive and/or it has no games. For the Wii and 360 this is not the case.

ok. besides blu-ray, what advantage does the ps3 have over the 360? they share 80% of their games.

360 costs less, has way more games. so by your logic, it should outsell the ps3 with a price drop.

The 360 has a far better games libary, has games for people that are attratcted to it i.e. shooters, Gears etc, hell it even has more RPGs than the PS3. It is at a relatively reasonable price. The 360 has reached its high point, Most of the people that want a 360 have one.

The PS3 is the complete opposite of that, and is still outselling the 360. Lots of people that want a PS3 have not got one due to the price/lack of decent/selection of games. Same cannot be said for the 360.

hm... still not believable. you are basing it off mostly speculation.

the people with brand loyalty would have bought a ps3 already, they wouldnt be waiting for the price to come down. thats what brand loyalty is...

ogvampire

A lot of them have bought a PS3 already, but it's not like they're ALL going to buy one straight away. I'm sure a lot of them are waiting for GT5, FF13, MGS4, GOW3 etc- the games that actually define the PS brand.

[QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"][QUOTE="nohnaimer"][QUOTE="Floppy_Jim"]

Not necessarily 3-4 years, the price will come down before that. And yeah, I know a lot of them have moved onto the Wii, that's why I doubt all 127 million will buy a PS3.

But obviously a lot of PS2 owners will go to PS3 once GT5, FF13, GOW3 etc all arrive with a $300 or less price tag. Let's not forget, it beat the 360 last year despite the high price and lack of heavy hitters.

ogvampire

Brand loyaty is very weak in the video game market, so I really don't buy that just becasue people bought a PS2, they'll likely buy a PS3. Just look at previous history.

I dunno, Sony seem to have a very loyal fanbase. Maybe moreso than Nintendo. Especially in Europe- the PS3 has overtaken the 360 there despite the 16 month head start. If it wasn't for brand loyalty, I doubt the PS3 would have outsold the 360 last year. The PS brand is still pretty friggin' powerful.

how can that be when Europe was sony land last gen, yet the Wii has vastly outsold the ps3 this gen?

loyal fanbase argument has not been proven in any way

Because of the huge price difference. Come on, if the PS3 and Wii were the same price, we all know who would be winning. And the gap between PS3 and Wii in Europe is a lot smaller than the gaps in Japan and America. I'm just saying brand loyalty is one of the reasons the PS3 is doing well, especially in Europe.

For example:

The PS3 has sold more consoles in Europe than America.

Meanwhile, the Wii and 360 have sold more consoles in America than Europe.

Europe just loves the PS brand.

the people with brand loyalty would have bought a ps3 already, they wouldnt be waiting for the price to come down. thats what brand loyalty is...

This is kind of my point. The PS3 has sold 6 mil in others and the wii has sold 9 mil . That is despite being almost double the price here in Europe. As a matter of fact I think eventually sales difference in the 'others' between the PS3 and the Wii wont be that big.

In America the PS3's problem is mainly this, it has a high price point with no games. People might as well pick up a 360, given this the PS3 and 360 are still selling fairly equally.

In Japan the main problem is games, where are all those RPG's and franchises from the PS2 gone? As we know the 360 is all but dead here.

The reason why eventually the PS3 will outsell the 360 by a considerable amount (15-20 mil +) is this. The PS3 probably won't overtake the 360 in America in lifetime sales but I'm sure it can remain within 5 mil of the 360. It will make up the difference and more in Japan. And outsell the 360 by a wide margin in Europe.

[QUOTE="Tiefster"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

so you are saying that these people are gonna wait 3-4 years to buy a ps3?

are you sure they didnt move onto something else?

ogvampire

lol. so you are telling me that there are 100 million people waiting for the ps3 to get to $300? :|

Why not? I thought sony fan's liked waiting.

[QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="Ukapx"]

once that happens, Wii will be at $149-199 and xbox360 at $199-249.

just like you expect ps3 sales to increase with a price drop, you can expect the same for the other consoles.

ogvampire

The boost from a price-cut will have a much greater impact on the PS3, and last long than the 360/Wii imo.

and your reason is...?

The main reason for the PS3 not selling well is price/lack of games.

my question is why?

if all things equal, and each console gets a price drop at the same time, why would the ps3's price drop have a greater impact and last longer?

That is the why. As of now the main reason why PS3 is not selling is because it is far to expensive and/or it has no games. For the Wii and 360 this is not the case.

ok. besides blu-ray, what advantage does the ps3 have over the 360? they share 80% of their games.

360 costs less, has way more games. so by your logic, it should outsell the ps3 with a price drop.

The 360 has a far better games libary, has games for people that are attratcted to it i.e. shooters, Gears etc, hell it even has more RPGs than the PS3. It is at a relatively reasonable price. The 360 has reached its high point, Most of the people that want a 360 have one.

The PS3 is the complete opposite of that, and is still outselling the 360. Lots of people that want a PS3 have not got one due to the price/lack of decent/selection of games. Same cannot be said for the 360.

hm... still not believable. you are basing it off mostly speculation.

Man this is not speculation, name me one PS brand game that has been released, Big game from last GEN. Apart from ratchet i can't think of any (maybe there is more can't rememeber). Coupled with high price. And still it is outselling the 360.

The 360 has delivered what it can, its next gen experience. All MS can do now is ride out this Gen and release the 720.

The PS3 has its high point to come.

I suspect:

Wii - 100 million, may continue to sell after the end of the generation

X360 - 45 million

PS3 - 45 million

I feel the PS3 can catch up with the X360, but by then next generation will have come around.

Pietrooper

makes sense ;)

Man this is not speculation, name me one PS brand game that has been released, Big game from last GEN. Apart from ratchet i can't think of any (maybe there is more can't rememeber). Coupled with high price. And still it is outselling the 360.

The 360 has delivered what it can, its next gen experience. All MS can do now is ride out this Gen and release the 720.

The PS3 has its high point to come.

Ukapx

By far the biggest game franchise last generation already came out, and GTA4 didn't produce any magically tremendous console sales boosts so far.

For this generation, the majority of the games are multiplatforms and no 3rd party developer would deviate from this (unless there's significant financial incentive from Sony or MS).

[QUOTE="Ukapx"]

Man this is not speculation, name me one PS brand game that has been released, Big game from last GEN. Apart from ratchet i can't think of any (maybe there is more can't rememeber). Coupled with high price. And still it is outselling the 360.

The 360 has delivered what it can, its next gen experience. All MS can do now is ride out this Gen and release the 720.

The PS3 has its high point to come.

nohnaimer

By far the biggest game franchise last generation already came out, and GTA4 didn't produce any magically tremendous console sales boosts so far.

For this generation, the majority of the games are multiplatforms and no 3rd party developer would deviate from this (unless there's significant financial incentive from Sony or MS).

Nontheless the PS brand games are still to come.

[QUOTE="Ukapx"]

Man this is not speculation, name me one PS brand game that has been released, Big game from last GEN. Apart from ratchet i can't think of any (maybe there is more can't rememeber). Coupled with high price. And still it is outselling the 360.

The 360 has delivered what it can, its next gen experience. All MS can do now is ride out this Gen and release the 720.

The PS3 has its high point to come.

nohnaimer

By far the biggest game franchise last generation already came out, and GTA4 didn't produce any magically tremendous console sales boosts so far.

For this generation, the majority of the games are multiplatforms and no 3rd party developer would deviate from this (unless there's significant financial incentive from Sony or MS).

GTA IV launched on the 29th of April. That is only 3 days. Except sales to be higher this month.

[QUOTE="Ukapx"]

Man this is not speculation, name me one PS brand game that has been released, Big game from last GEN. Apart from ratchet i can't think of any (maybe there is more can't rememeber). Coupled with high price. And still it is outselling the 360.

The 360 has delivered what it can, its next gen experience. All MS can do now is ride out this Gen and release the 720.

The PS3 has its high point to come.

nohnaimer

By far the biggest game franchise last generation already came out, and GTA4 didn't produce any magically tremendous console sales boosts so far.

For this generation, the majority of the games are multiplatforms and no 3rd party developer would deviate from this (unless there's significant financial incentive from Sony or MS).

MGS4 and God of War 3 are system sellers.

Can I be the first to say that the ~60 million predictions for PS360 are outrageous? The consoles are at what? One at 12 and the other at 17 million? You expect them to take 2 or 3 years worth of sales and do 3x that in the next 2 or 3 years? Sales aren't exponential, especially for losing consoles, they reduce year over year. Especially after the second year, like the 360 is now.Eponique

Wii: 120m

PS3: 80m

360: 40m

Wii: 120m

PS3: 80m

360: 40m

Nintendo_Man

yeah i could see that, maybe 45 mil for 360 and 75 mil for PS3

My prediction:

Wii: 110,000,000
PS3: 75,000,000
360: 70,000,000

I'm going to be wrong, no doubt. No one can predict this stuff really. lol.

[QUOTE="nohnaimer"][QUOTE="Ukapx"]

Man this is not speculation, name me one PS brand game that has been released, Big game from last GEN. Apart from ratchet i can't think of any (maybe there is more can't rememeber). Coupled with high price. And still it is outselling the 360.

The 360 has delivered what it can, its next gen experience. All MS can do now is ride out this Gen and release the 720.

The PS3 has its high point to come.

CajunShooter

By far the biggest game franchise last generation already came out, and GTA4 didn't produce any magically tremendous console sales boosts so far.

For this generation, the majority of the games are multiplatforms and no 3rd party developer would deviate from this (unless there's significant financial incentive from Sony or MS).

MGS4 and God of War 3 are system sellers.

Eh, not so much God of War 3, that only sold like 4 million the first time and 1.9 million the second. Then again it came out in 2007 when next-gen was i nfull swing.

Metal Gear probably...

My prediction:

Wii: 110,000,000
PS3: 75,000,000
360: 70,000,000

I'm going to be wrong, no doubt. No one can predict this stuff really. lol.

carljohnson3456

I'd put the 360 more at 45-50 million.

Heres my prediction

Wii - A lot

PS3 - A Lot

360 - A lot

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

2) People will be attracted by Hi def gaming including all those Wii owners wanting a second console

I, for example, choosed the 360 as my second console. That argument can be used for the 360's advantage.

3) The price of the PS3 would have dropped considerably maybe $200-299 dollars

So will be the 360's / Wii's

4) New models of the PS3 slimline, Home, BC via emulation and firmware update

Not enough for sellin 70 M

5) The Power of the PS3 will start to be fully realised and developers will start using the full capabilities of the System Blu ray etc

Dev will also learn how to use the 360's/ Wii's capabilities better.

6) Blu ray user base will start to increase quite significantly

Maybe not.

7) Excellent back catalogue

It has not helped much.

8) Playstation brand is till there believe it or not, the main obstacle to more sales is price

You can't be sure, so we can't.

9) Even if MS releases a new console, PS3 will have a much larger user base, more 3rd party support , will be near maxing out on graphics capability etc and most importantly MUCH MORE cheaper.

That just speculation, so no valid argument.

I#m not saying it is not possible, I'm saying it is quite unprobable.

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

IronBass

On this one, in a survey over 50% of PS3 owners are aware of their consoles HD capabalities, less than 30% for the X360.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

Pietrooper

On this one, in a survey over 50% of PS3 owners are aware of their consoles HD capabalities, less than 30% for the X360.

Yeah, because surveys are always reliable.

lol. I don't see more than 30-40 million, but, you know, it's all crystal balls at this point in the game. Fragile stuff.Jandurin

I guess you missed Cnet and THIS. Come on buddy, you know how things will go. You know the TC isn't that far off.

[QUOTE="Pietrooper"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

IronBass

On this one, in a survey over 50% of PS3 owners are aware of their consoles HD capabalities, less than 30% for the X360.

Yeah, because surveys are always reliable.

Come on, if the PS3 and Wii were the same price, we all know who would be winning.Floppy_Jim

My prediction:

Wii: 110,000,000
PS3: 75,000,000
360: 70,000,000

I'm going to be wrong, no doubt. No one can predict this stuff really. lol.

carljohnson3456

I guess you missed Cnet and THIS. Come on buddy, you know how things will go. You know the TC isn't that far off.

The_Crucible

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

2) People will be attracted by Hi def gaming including all those Wii owners wanting a second console

I, for example, choosed the 360 as my second console. That argument can be used for the 360's advantage.

3) The price of the PS3 would have dropped considerably maybe $200-299 dollars

So will be the 360's / Wii's

4) New models of the PS3 slimline, Home, BC via emulation and firmware update

Not enough for sellin 70 M

5) The Power of the PS3 will start to be fully realised and developers will start using the full capabilities of the System Blu ray etc

Dev will also learn how to use the 360's/ Wii's capabilities better.

6) Blu ray user base will start to increase quite significantly

Maybe not.

7) Excellent back catalogue

It has not helped much.

8) Playstation brand is till there believe it or not, the main obstacle to more sales is price

You can't be sure, so we can't.

9) Even if MS releases a new console, PS3 will have a much larger user base, more 3rd party support , will be near maxing out on graphics capability etc and most importantly MUCH MORE cheaper.

That just speculation, so no valid argument.

I#m not saying it is not possible, I'm saying it is quite unprobable.

IronBass

Price and the lack of decent games is hurting the PS3 far more than the 360. The 360 as it is is good value for its price and the wide array of games it offers.

The PS3 is generally viewed more as a HI-def console because of its current price and the fact that it offers Bluray. The next step up from DVD. When more people start getting HI def TV's you think they would rather take a 360 than a PS3 baring in mind that at that time the PS3 would be aound $249 ?

BC is very important trust me, All those PS2 owners would love to be able to play thier collection of games and they can't do so on the 360.

And it is true even if MS release a new console it will either have to be selling at a huge loss or not be as big a step up next-gen. Simply because the PS3 will be far cheaper, with bluray, with an excellent selection of games. Baring in mind the userbase of the PS3 it will have more 3rd party support, and the quality of games will be better than what they are now (graphics etc).

I honestly do not think the Wii will hit 100m maybe 60m. I also don't think the Wii will be the next ps2dark-warmachine

The test for the Wii to see if it'll reach 100 mil is this year and the beggining of next.

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

My prediction:

Wii: 110,000,000
PS3: 75,000,000
360: 70,000,000

I'm going to be wrong, no doubt. No one can predict this stuff really. lol.

Jandurin

Firstly the Wii has introduced new people into gaming, secondly the 360 has no chance of selling 70 mil. The bulk of that 70 mil would have to come from NA. Thirdly dual console ownership.

All of those, save the Blu-Ray (#6), can be said of the 360 as well.

As far as name recognition - that didn't stop the N64 and GameCube from being huge disappointments.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

2) People will be attracted by Hi def gaming including all those Wii owners wanting a second console

I, for example, choosed the 360 as my second console. That argument can be used for the 360's advantage.

3) The price of the PS3 would have dropped considerably maybe $200-299 dollars

So will be the 360's / Wii's

4) New models of the PS3 slimline, Home, BC via emulation and firmware update

Not enough for sellin 70 M

5) The Power of the PS3 will start to be fully realised and developers will start using the full capabilities of the System Blu ray etc

Dev will also learn how to use the 360's/ Wii's capabilities better.

6) Blu ray user base will start to increase quite significantly

Maybe not.

7) Excellent back catalogue

It has not helped much.

8) Playstation brand is till there believe it or not, the main obstacle to more sales is price

You can't be sure, so we can't.

9) Even if MS releases a new console, PS3 will have a much larger user base, more 3rd party support , will be near maxing out on graphics capability etc and most importantly MUCH MORE cheaper.

That just speculation, so no valid argument.

I#m not saying it is not possible, I'm saying it is quite unprobable.

Ukapx

Price and the lack of decent games is hurting the PS3 far more than the 360. The 360 as it is is good value for its price and the wide array of games it offers.

The PS3 is generally viewed more as a HI-def console because of its current price and the fact that it offers Bluray. The next step up from DVD. When more people start getting HI def TV's you think they would rather take a 360 than a PS3 baring in mind that at that time the PS3 would be aound $249 ?

BC is very important trust me, All those PS2 owners would love to be able to play thier collection of games and they can't do so on the 360.

And it is true even if MS release a new console it will either have to be selling at a huge loss or not be as big a step up next-gen. Simply because the PS3 will be far cheaper, with bluray, with an excellent selection of games. Baring in mind the userbase of the PS3 it will have more 3rd party support, and the quality of games will be better than what they are now (graphics etc).

It has not helped much until now.

[QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

2) People will be attracted by Hi def gaming including all those Wii owners wanting a second console

I, for example, choosed the 360 as my second console. That argument can be used for the 360's advantage.

3) The price of the PS3 would have dropped considerably maybe $200-299 dollars

So will be the 360's / Wii's

4) New models of the PS3 slimline, Home, BC via emulation and firmware update

Not enough for sellin 70 M

5) The Power of the PS3 will start to be fully realised and developers will start using the full capabilities of the System Blu ray etc

Dev will also learn how to use the 360's/ Wii's capabilities better.

6) Blu ray user base will start to increase quite significantly

Maybe not.

7) Excellent back catalogue

It has not helped much.

8) Playstation brand is till there believe it or not, the main obstacle to more sales is price

You can't be sure, so we can't.

9) Even if MS releases a new console, PS3 will have a much larger user base, more 3rd party support , will be near maxing out on graphics capability etc and most importantly MUCH MORE cheaper.

That just speculation, so no valid argument.

I#m not saying it is not possible, I'm saying it is quite unprobable.

IronBass

Price and the lack of decent games is hurting the PS3 far more than the 360. The 360 as it is is good value for its price and the wide array of games it offers.

The PS3 is generally viewed more as a HI-def console because of its current price and the fact that it offers Bluray. The next step up from DVD. When more people start getting HI def TV's you think they would rather take a 360 than a PS3 baring in mind that at that time the PS3 would be aound $249 ?

BC is very important trust me, All those PS2 owners would love to be able to play thier collection of games and they can't do so on the 360.

And it is true even if MS release a new console it will either have to be selling at a huge loss or not be as big a step up next-gen. Simply because the PS3 will be far cheaper, with bluray, with an excellent selection of games. Baring in mind the userbase of the PS3 it will have more 3rd party support, and the quality of games will be better than what they are now (graphics etc).

It has not helped much until now.

Thats because there are loads of PS2 owners who have not upgraded main reasons being price/lack of games.

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

My prediction:

Wii: 110,000,000
PS3: 75,000,000
360: 70,000,000

I'm going to be wrong, no doubt. No one can predict this stuff really. lol.

Jandurin

Absolutely. Alot more people are buying multiple consoles this gen, especially because of the Wii.

All of those, save the Blu-Ray (#6), can be said of the 360 as well.

As far as name recognition - that didn't stop the N64 and GameCube from being huge disappointments.

dabear

exactly bluray gives the PS3 far more bang for its buck when more pople get HDTV and bluray starts to become the standard.

N64 had no 3rd party support, the reason why it even sold as much as it did was becuase it was Nintendo. If that was a MS console how much would it have sold ?

GC had no chance really coming from the back of the N64 and being release later than the PS2.

Brand recognition is very important. Why do you think the PS3 is outselling the 360 WW. When the 360 has better games, more 3rd party support and is cheaper ?

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

My prediction:

Wii: 110,000,000
PS3: 75,000,000
360: 70,000,000

I'm going to be wrong, no doubt. No one can predict this stuff really. lol.

carljohnson3456

Absolutely. Alot more people are buying multiple consoles this gen, especially because of the Wii.

Really? With the world's economy in the state it's in many people will spend money on multiple consoles? I don't think so.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="freediro"][QUOTE="Pietrooper"]

I suspect:

Wii - 100 million, may continue to sell after the end of the generation

X360 - 45 million

PS3 - 45 million

I feel the PS3 can catch up with the X360, but by then next generation will have come around.

Floppy_Jim

what? you think everyone every one who owned a PS2 wont buy a PS3, your saying almost over 60 million PS2 owners will deffect and not buy a PS3, um i dont think so.

wii-100 million +

ps3 - 90 million +

360 - 70 million +

then where are they now? :roll:

Waiting for the price to go down? We can't expect all 127 million PS2 owners to buy the PS3 after only 18 months. Of course, I don't expect ALL 127 million to buy the PS3, but quite a lot.

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

2) People will be attracted by Hi def gaming including all those Wii owners wanting a second console

I, for example, choosed the 360 as my second console. That argument can be used for the 360's advantage.

3) The price of the PS3 would have dropped considerably maybe $200-299 dollars

So will be the 360's / Wii's

4) New models of the PS3 slimline, Home, BC via emulation and firmware update

Not enough for sellin 70 M

5) The Power of the PS3 will start to be fully realised and developers will start using the full capabilities of the System Blu ray etc

Dev will also learn how to use the 360's/ Wii's capabilities better.

6) Blu ray user base will start to increase quite significantly

Maybe not.

7) Excellent back catalogue

It has not helped much.

8) Playstation brand is till there believe it or not, the main obstacle to more sales is price

You can't be sure, so we can't.

9) Even if MS releases a new console, PS3 will have a much larger user base, more 3rd party support , will be near maxing out on graphics capability etc and most importantly MUCH MORE cheaper.

That just speculation, so no valid argument.

I#m not saying it is not possible, I'm saying it is quite unprobable.

Ukapx

Price and the lack of decent games is hurting the PS3 far more than the 360. The 360 as it is is good value for its price and the wide array of games it offers.

The PS3 is generally viewed more as a HI-def console because of its current price and the fact that it offers Bluray. The next step up from DVD. When more people start getting HI def TV's you think they would rather take a 360 than a PS3 baring in mind that at that time the PS3 would be aound $249 ?

BC is very important trust me, All those PS2 owners would love to be able to play thier collection of games and they can't do so on the 360.

And it is true even if MS release a new console it will either have to be selling at a huge loss or not be as big a step up next-gen. Simply because the PS3 will be far cheaper, with bluray, with an excellent selection of games. Baring in mind the userbase of the PS3 it will have more 3rd party support, and the quality of games will be better than what they are now (graphics etc).

It has not helped much until now.

Thats because there are loads of PS2 owners who have not upgraded main reasons being price/lack of games.

That's speculation, no fact. And speculation is useless in a discussion.

Absolutely. Alot more people are buying multiple consoles this gen, especially because of the Wii.

carljohnson3456

A survey may not be but blu-ray is. You don't think a HDTV owner will see the value in having the DVD upscaler AND blu-ray with the PS3 were you don't with the 360? Come on, let's be real here.The_Crucible

Now you are placing your chips on an interesting race:

What will happen first:

1)HDTV's breach the 20% in North American homes (We sat at just under 10% at Christmas 2007)

2) Stand Alone Blu-Ray Players become cheaper then the PS3.

The appeal with the PS3 (for me) and the PS2 (for many) was that you got a player + something else for less money then just a player it was really a no brainer.

The difference was I could use a DVD player on pretty well any tv, heck my first GE DVD Player had a coax connection on it, whereas to get the true benefit of the Blu-Ray player you need to have an HD set.

While I fully agree with that an HD owner will see value in the PS3, that value vanishes the second stand alone Blu-Ray players start to drop in price, and with Sylvania marketing a Blu-Ray player at 299.99 (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=823)

How long is it before we start seeing the 199.99 Blu-Ray players? Christmas? Summer? I have no idea.

Sony needed to capitalize on moving the PS3 as a player early on, and unfortunatley the HD-DVD Vs. Blu-Ray battle kept a lot of folks on the sidelines and as the war ended you started seeing Blu-Ray players fall,

Will an new HD-TV owner still opt for a 399.99 40GB PS3 if there is a 249.99 Samsung Blu-Ray player option? Who knows?

[QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="Ukapx"][QUOTE="IronBass"]

1) In 2-3 years HDTV will be much more widely used: price will come down

That could mean an advantage for the 360, too.

2) People will be attracted by Hi def gaming including all those Wii owners wanting a second console

I, for example, choosed the 360 as my second console. That argument can be used for the 360's advantage.

3) The price of the PS3 would have dropped considerably maybe $200-299 dollars

So will be the 360's / Wii's

4) New models of the PS3 slimline, Home, BC via emulation and firmware update

Not enough for sellin 70 M

5) The Power of the PS3 will start to be fully realised and developers will start using the full capabilities of the System Blu ray etc

Dev will also learn how to use the 360's/ Wii's capabilities better.

6) Blu ray user base will start to increase quite significantly

Maybe not.

7) Excellent back catalogue

It has not helped much.

8) Playstation brand is till there believe it or not, the main obstacle to more sales is price

You can't be sure, so we can't.

9) Even if MS releases a new console, PS3 will have a much larger user base, more 3rd party support , will be near maxing out on graphics capability etc and most importantly MUCH MORE cheaper.

That just speculation, so no valid argument.

I#m not saying it is not possible, I'm saying it is quite unprobable.

IronBass

Price and the lack of decent games is hurting the PS3 far more than the 360. The 360 as it is is good value for its price and the wide array of games it offers.

The PS3 is generally viewed more as a HI-def console because of its current price and the fact that it offers Bluray. The next step up from DVD. When more people start getting HI def TV's you think they would rather take a 360 than a PS3 baring in mind that at that time the PS3 would be aound $249 ?

BC is very important trust me, All those PS2 owners would love to be able to play thier collection of games and they can't do so on the 360.

And it is true even if MS release a new console it will either have to be selling at a huge loss or not be as big a step up next-gen. Simply because the PS3 will be far cheaper, with bluray, with an excellent selection of games. Baring in mind the userbase of the PS3 it will have more 3rd party support, and the quality of games will be better than what they are now (graphics etc).

It has not helped much until now.

Thats because there are loads of PS2 owners who have not upgraded main reasons being price/lack of games.

That's speculation, no fact. And speculation is useless in a discussion.

What exactly is specualtion that there are 120 mil ps2 owners and 60 mil next gen consoles sold ?

[QUOTE="The_Crucible"]A survey may not be but blu-ray is. You don't think a HDTV owner will see the value in having the DVD upscaler AND blu-ray with the PS3 were you don't with the 360? Come on, let's be real here.cosmostein77

Now you are placing your chips on an interesting race:

What will happen first:

1)HDTV's breach the 20% in North American homes (We sat at just under 10% at Christmas 2007)

2) Stand Alone Blu-Ray Players become cheaper then the PS3.

The appeal with the PS3 (for me) and the PS2 (for many) was that you got a player + something else for less money then just a player it was really a no brainer.

The difference was I could use a DVD player on pretty well any tv, heck my first GE DVD Player had a coax connection on it, whereas to get the true benefit of the Blu-Ray player you need to have an HD set.

While I fully agree with that an HD owner will see value in the PS3, that value vanishes the second stand alone Blu-Ray players start to drop in price, and with Sylvania marketing a Blu-Ray player at 299.99 (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=823)

How long is it before we start seeing the 199.99 Blu-Ray players? Christmas? Summer? I have no idea.

Sony needed to capitalize on moving the PS3 as a player early on, and unfortunatley the HD-DVD Vs. Blu-Ray battle kept a lot of folks on the sidelines and as the war ended you started seeing Blu-Ray players fall,

Will an new HD-TV owner still opt for a 399.99 40GB PS3 if there is a 249.99 Samsung Blu-Ray player option? Who knows?

Yes I see what you are saying. But Sony would be dumb to just let the PS3 stay at 399 when you could get a samsung bluray player for 199. But even then the PS3 is still at decent value.

I am sure once bluray players drop in price and or HDTV drops in price signficantly the PS3 will adjsut its price accordingly.

Lol Lems fail to see how big a difference in built bluray will eventually be. Even if MS release a new next gen console with bluray it'll be far more expensive than the PS3 or be sold at Huge losses. And it'll have less games, less third party support etc.

Yes I see what you are saying. But Sony would be dumb to just let the PS3 stay at 399 when you could get a samsung bluray player for 199. But even then the PS3 is still at decent value.

I am sure once bluray players drop in price and or HDTV drops in price signficantly the PS3 will adjsut its price accordingly.

Lol Lems fail to see how big a difference in built bluray will eventually be. Even if MS release a new next gen console with bluray it'll be far more expensive than the PS3 or be sold at Huge losses. And it'll have less games, less third party support etc.

Ukapx