PS3 is a great gaming machine, but it will never be a success.

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

No I don't. Games have been great. Was it pressing A that made Zelda great? Or O that made Xenosaga great? No, it's a what's actually in the game. Controls are what actually connects you to the game. The vast majority of the motion controls on the Wii are used to perform functions that we were already able to perform with controllers, except now much slower, less precise, and less effective.

A desperate attempt? They're releasing it as a side peripheral to grab in some of the casuals that Nintendo is attracting right now.

A "trojan horse?" Bluray is a feature and it's the future of disc based media that's being adopted faster than DVD was. Putting a lot of money into great games is harmful to the industry?

Nice comeback. "Big bad corporation" indeed.

ermacness

You can spin all like, that won't change the validity of my point. Sony takes the big money approach. They're the ones who pushed Blu-Ray over games, released a $600 console, and created a system which is unusually difficult and expensive to develop for. People forget the past so quickly, like the Slim is at $300 and Sony is dumping money into 1st party games because they are benevolent.

Your posts are just hot air and nit picking. Sounds like a lot of opinion and denial. The PS3 failed to be even half of what Sony expected. It's in last, nothing special. Like the Gamecube of this gen.

I guess that way the PS3 could be considered a failure, but I see it a different way & could really care less if it hasn't performed as well as previous Playstations. Love the console & love its games.

So just because it isn't going to meet the ridiculously high sales set by its predecessors, it's a failure?:|

No matter how many PS3 defenders here try to counter the OP's argument, you simply cant. He's got all his pieces in place argument wise. Check mate.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]

You understate the impact the Wii and motion controls have had on gaming. Not to mention the Virtual Console. Even Sony is trying to copy the Wiimote in a desperate attempt to appeal to more people.

Sony's business model is not sustainable. They designed the PS3 as a Blu-Ray trojan horse, but BD failed to catch on in mainstream society. Sony is taking a hit at a $300 price point to try to boost sales, while simulataneously throwing unbelievable amounts at 1st party games like Killzone 2. This way of business is illogical and harmful to the industry. Nintendo has shown a way to make money on consoles, while selling games in quantities Sony could only dream of.

This is why Sony and the PS3 are a failure. They're the Yankees, trying to win the super bowl.

gamecubepad

No I don't. Games have been great. Was it pressing A that made Zelda great? Or O that made Xenosaga great? No, it's a what's actually in the game. Controls are what actually connects you to the game. The vast majority of the motion controls on the Wii are used to perform functions that we were already able to perform with controllers, except now much slower, less precise, and less effective.

A desperate attempt? They're releasing it as a side peripheral to grab in some of the casuals that Nintendo is attracting right now.

A "trojan horse?" Bluray is a feature and it's the future of disc based media that's being adopted faster than DVD was. Putting a lot of money into great games is harmful to the industry?

Nice comeback. "Big bad corporation" indeed.

You can spin all like, that won't change the validity of my point. Sony takes the big money approach. They're the ones who pushed Blu-Ray over games, released a $600 console, and created a system which is unusually difficult and expensive to develop for. People forget the past so quickly, like the Slim is at $300 and Sony is dumping money into 1st party games because they are benevolent.

Your posts are just hot air and nit picking. Sounds like a lot of opinion and denial. The PS3 failed to be even half of what Sony expected. It's in last, nothing special. Like the Gamecube of this gen.

I'm spinning the facts? Hot air and nitpicking? Opinion and denial?

Look, your posts just don't add up. You're trying to portray Sony as a company that's strictly business and has little to offer gaming, yet the PS3 has the most content for the most effective price out of every console. Sony sacrificed "games for bluray?" The existence of bluray is an additional feature that is benefitial to games and Sony has produced some of the greatest titles this gen themselves, such as Uncharted 2. Hardly a "sacrifice." I mean, I'm really not sure how to respond to someone who criticizes Sony for not doing enough for gaming, and then cites the amount of money that Sony spends on making their games great as a bad thing. You're contradicting yourself left and right.

You mention game library and call Sony's PS3 "nothing special," when the game library is vastly superior to the Wii. Little Big Planet is nothing special? The Last Guardian is nothing special? And what about promising multiplats such as Final Fantasy XIII and End of Eternity?

Sony is in the worst position out of the 3. Nintendo is in the best. Yet Sony has consistently outperformed Nintendo this generation in terms of library and what their console has to offer.

Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions. And I'm the one in denial?

[QUOTE="ermacness"]

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]

You can spin all like, that won't change the validity of my point. Sony takes the big money approach. They're the ones who pushed Blu-Ray over games, released a $600 console, and created a system which is unusually difficult and expensive to develop for. People forget the past so quickly, like the Slim is at $300 and Sony is dumping money into 1st party games because they are benevolent.

Your posts are just hot air and nit picking. Sounds like a lot of opinion and denial. The PS3 failed to be even half of what Sony expected. It's in last, nothing special. Like the Gamecube of this gen.

Hahadouken

But gamecubepad pointed out that the PS3 was nothing special in terms of game library. Then the Wii must absolutely be abysmal huh? If Sony is bad, then Nintendo is Satan.

[QUOTE="ermacness"]

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]

You can spin all like, that won't change the validity of my point. Sony takes the big money approach. They're the ones who pushed Blu-Ray over games, released a $600 console, and created a system which is unusually difficult and expensive to develop for. People forget the past so quickly, like the Slim is at $300 and Sony is dumping money into 1st party games because they are benevolent.

Your posts are just hot air and nit picking. Sounds like a lot of opinion and denial. The PS3 failed to be even half of what Sony expected. It's in last, nothing special. Like the Gamecube of this gen.

Hahadouken

Do you really think they "pushed Blu-ray over games", or is it possible that the games planned for the PS3's launch weren't ready because they had to move up the console's release to compete with MS? Has that ever occurred to you, in the midst of digging for conspiracy theories?

People on both sides of this fence are foolish. Neither company cares about you.

Hahadouken

Of course they did. The BD-Drive in the PS3 at launch cost Sony over $300 to produce. They put a gimped 7800 series gpu in their to save money because of Blu-Ray. If they had stuck with DVD and put that $300 towards a better GPU they would have slaughter the 360 and the Wii, but they wanted the HD movie martket and expected their fans to blindly follow them over to the PS3. Which didn't happen.

Oh, and gamecubepad, thanks for bringing up how Sony was initally willing to sell their console for 200$ less than what it cost to produce whereas Nintendo was willing to sell the Wii for roughly 200% of what it's worth.

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

Do you really think they "pushed Blu-ray over games", or is it possible that the games planned for the PS3's launch weren't ready because they had to move up the console's release to compete with MS? Has that ever occurred to you, in the midst of digging for conspiracy theories?

People on both sides of this fence are foolish. Neither company cares about you.

gamecubepad

Of course they did. The BD-Drive in the PS3 at launch cost Sony over $300 to produce. They put a gimped 7800 series gpu in their to save money because of Blu-Ray. If they had stuck with DVD and put that $300 towards a better GPU they would have slaughter the 360 and the Wii, but they wanted the HD movie martket and expected their fans to blindly follow them over to the PS3. Which didn't happen.

Funny how you mention GPU, when the Wii is roughly equivalent to a gamecube.

Funny how you mention GPU, when Uncharted 2 is the best looking console game this gen.

According to your standards, Nintendo's performance this gen is simply unforgviable!

No matter how many PS3 defenders here try to counter the OP's argument, you simply cant. He's got all his pieces in place argument wise. Check mate.

glesniak

Sony is in the worst position out of the 3. Nintendo is in the best. Yet Sony has consistently outperformed Nintendo this generation in terms of library and what their console has to offer.

Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions. And I'm the one in denial?

hakanakumono

More spin I see. You take my comments, which I clearly state were from a real world/business perspective somehow interpret me saying Nintendo has the best library, and the PS3s is nothing special. Which is a pure fabrication of the truth.

Let's go over this:

-I said Sony's way of business with the PS3 is unsustainable and detrimental to the gaming industry.

-Then I said Nintendo has right idea, not to say MS doesn't with the PC and 360.

-Then I said the PS3 is in last place, and is nothing special. The GameCube of this gen.

Everything I said is true. You may love the games, like I did with the GC, but in the end the PS3 is a failure. Accept this. Going from last to first = success. Going from first to last = failure.

*edit.

the console sold 500k in one week, and it has the potential to sell more if they lowered the price more (not soon of course) and wz the strong 2010 line up................seems a good business for sony,

Funny how you mention GPU, when the Wii is roughly equivalent to a gamecube.

Funny how you mention GPU, when Uncharted 2 is the best looking console game this gen.

According to your standards, Nintendo's performance this gen is simply unforgviable!

hakanakumono

Don't cry to me. The PS3 was $600 at release. The Wii was $250. You were able to get a 360 and a Wii for the same price as the PS3, which is what I did.

The PS3 is certainly a good value at $300, but a failure as a whole.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Sony is in the worst position out of the 3. Nintendo is in the best. Yet Sony has consistently outperformed Nintendo this generation in terms of library and what their console has to offer.

Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions. And I'm the one in denial?

gamecubepad

More spin I see. You take my comments, which I clearly state were from a real world/business perspective somehow interpret me saying Nintendo has the best library, and the PS3s is nothing special. Which is a pure fabrication of the truth.

Let's go over this:

-I said Sony's way of business with the PS3 is unsustainable and detrimental to the gaming industry.

-Then I said Nintendo has right idea, not to say MS doesn't with the PC and 360.

-Then I said the PS3 is in last place, and is nothing special. The GameCube of this gen.

Everything I said is true. You may love the games, like I did with the GC, but in the end the PS3 is a failure. Accept this. Going from last to first = success. Going from first to last = failure.

*edit.

Early on you portrayed Nintendo as a benevolent company and Sony as a big bad evil company. Naturally when you call Sony's library "nothing special," I'm going to compare it to Nintendo's console, especially when Nintendo's console is in 1st place and Sony's console is outperforming it.

- How is it detrimental?

- How does Nintendo have the right idea? Motion technology has proven to do almost nothing for gaming if anything at all.

- You said in terms of sales and game library. The PS3, by definition, is special in that it's a special case for a 3rd place console in terms of both library and sales.

You also said many other things.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Funny how you mention GPU, when the Wii is roughly equivalent to a gamecube.

Funny how you mention GPU, when Uncharted 2 is the best looking console game this gen.

According to your standards, Nintendo's performance this gen is simply unforgviable!

gamecubepad

Don't cry to me. The PS3 was $600 at release. The Wii was $250. You were able to get a 360 and a Wii for the same price as the PS3, which is what I did.

The PS3 is certainly a good value at $300, but a failure as a whole.

I'm not "crying," I'm bringing up the fact that you're being critical of Sony for "sacrificing" graphics when clearly graphics have not been sacrificed. And you let Nintendo off easy for doing far worse than what Sony did, which was make their console more difficult to program for (and thus more difficult to achieve the same level of graphical quality that devs could achieve with less effort on the 360).

How is it a failure as a whole? A whole includes game library, which the PS3 has been very successful in.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Sony is in the worst position out of the 3. Nintendo is in the best. Yet Sony has consistently outperformed Nintendo this generation in terms of library and what their console has to offer.

Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions. And I'm the one in denial?

gamecubepad

More spin I see. You take my comments, which I clearly state were from a real world/business perspective somehow interpret me saying Nintendo has the best library, and the PS3s is nothing special. Which is a pure fabrication of the truth.

Let's go over this:

-I said Sony's way of business with the PS3 is unsustainable and detrimental to the gaming industry.

-Then I said Nintendo has right idea, not to say MS doesn't with the PC and 360.

-Then I said the PS3 is in last place, and is nothing special. The GameCube of this gen.

Everything I said is true. You may love the games, like I did with the GC, but in the end the PS3 is a failure. Accept this. Going from last to first = success. Going from first to last = failure.

*edit.

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"][QUOTE="ermacness"]AND THE WII IS??!?!?!!! For a console thats soo "special", it's sure is missing out on alot of great 3rd party titles this gen like GTA4, Bioshock, Fallout 3, and RE5

ermacness

[QUOTE="ermacness"]

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"] You don't get it. Sales are only important when there aren't a lot of games to hype, and games are only important when nothing is selling. Welcome to fanboy wars. Set your double-standards phaser to "Kill". Hahadouken

[QUOTE="Hahadouken"]

Do you really think they "pushed Blu-ray over games", or is it possible that the games planned for the PS3's launch weren't ready because they had to move up the console's release to compete with MS? Has that ever occurred to you, in the midst of digging for conspiracy theories?

People on both sides of this fence are foolish. Neither company cares about you.

gamecubepad

Of course they did. The BD-Drive in the PS3 at launch cost Sony over $300 to produce. They put a gimped 7800 series gpu in their to save money because of Blu-Ray. If they had stuck with DVD and put that $300 towards a better GPU they would have slaughter the 360 and the Wii, but they wanted the HD movie martket and expected their fans to blindly follow them over to the PS3. Which didn't happen.

Early on you portrayed Nintendo as a benevolent company and Sony as a big bad evil company. Naturally when you call Sony's library "nothing special," I'm going to compare it to Nintendo's console, especially when Nintendo's console is in 1st place and Sony's console is outperforming it.

- How is it detrimental?

- How does Nintendo have the right idea? Motion technology has proven to do almost nothing for gaming if anything at all.

- You said in terms of sales and game library. The PS3, by definition, is special in that it's a special case for a 3rd place console in terms of both library and sales.

You also said many other things.

hakanakumono

-Yeah, as a machine it is a failure. It certainly has a decent library of games, but the system design was a mess.

-It's clear in my post that I said the PS3 has a decent software library. I was simply commenting on the irony that here in SW 360 and PS3 are all that matters, but in the real world the Wii is a much more successful and important console.

gamecubepad

That's where you stepped in and started to try to push subjective ratings(opinion) in my face as the dominant method of determining success.

Reviews and your opinion on games doesn't change the fact that the PS3 is a Hardware and Software failure. You can say I'm playing sales, but I'm more concerned with business approach each company has taken, and sales are the only factual method to determine the results of each approach.

You love Sony, I love Nintendo. The PS3 is a failure. Sorry the truth hurts so much.

i love my ps3, xbox 360 broke (surprise) and is extremely cheap and nasty, and the wii held my intrest for like a month before i relised it was just a novelty machine. only reason ps3 hasnt sold as good is because it was more expensive and the little chavs moms couldnt afford one so settled for the xbox and a fake burbury hat, and the wii sold mainly for the wii fit for all the fattys that thought it actually helped to lose weight.

i love my ps3, xbox 360 broke (surprise) and is extremely cheap and nasty, and the wii held my intrest for like a month before i relised it was just a novelty machine. only reason ps3 hasnt sold as good is because it was more expensive and the little chavs moms couldnt afford one so settled for the xbox and a fake burbury hat, and the wii sold mainly for the wii fit for all the fattys that thought it actually helped to lose weight.

ukcrazyguy

Brilliant analysis from a fanboy! Absolutely brilliant!

well sony is not family friendly like nintendo so no it wont bounce back ,

remember ps1 and ps2 had family oriented software alongside the mature bloody software aimed at adults ,

ps3 has none of this ,

wii does

so ya it may end 2nd at best but its already a failure for sony because ps2 in the same time frame sold more

alot more and is still selling right now so i doubt ps3 will do as good as ps1 ds ps2 wii psp -all of which are near 60 and over

so ya

also ps3 has less games then wii or 360

wi iactually has more games the nps3 /360 combined to bad many are overlooked,

and bought later down the road -hence the good shelf life

and you know what , the price to own a wii is so much more cheaper in the long run where games cost 50 and under 360 /ps3 games cost 10 more

so ya

and nintendo offers great downloadabe classics while ps3 hardly does any of it -its all flash base games /small games

xbox360 does have a few great classics /xbox games to but its not as good as wii

[QUOTE="glesniak"]

No matter how many PS3 defenders here try to counter the OP's argument, you simply cant. He's got all his pieces in place argument wise. Check mate.

jalexbrown

The guy is right. Bottom line is this - Sony went from having a strangle hold on the industry after both the PS and PS2. Now with the PS3, they have fallen way behind the other two consoles and have been playing catch up ever since. All while hemorrhaging money like crazy. That isn't success in the business world. It isn't fanboyism, nor is it bias. Its straight up common business sense.

Its a failure from a business perspective. From a general public perspective maybe not since that is all based on opinion. But no matter how many people try to spin it, from first to last is a failure. Period.

If the Playstation 3 "will never be a success"then why hasnt Sony halt production for the console? If the PS3 is really a doomship, then wouldnt it be smart for Sony to pull out? I'm sure they will realize it, however, the factis that it is doing well. Though it may not have many sales, people are still buying it

The fact Sony's console went from first in market share to last makes it a huge failure from a bussiness standpoint.

As far as gaming goes I can't even begin to compare the PS3 to the PS2 or PSX given the same timeframe.

PS3 isn't a failure because of the PC, 360, or Wii its a failure because it failed to live up to the standard set by its predecessors.

nmaharg

By that argument, nothing Michael Jackson released after Thriller could be considered a success because they didn't reach the same sales thresholds. Or that the last 50 years of Einstein's life were a massive failure, because he nver again matched his "miracle year" of 1905. That's a pretty silly argument.

[QUOTE="nmaharg"]

The fact Sony's console went from first in market share to last makes it a huge failure from a bussiness standpoint.

As far as gaming goes I can't even begin to compare the PS3 to the PS2 or PSX given the same timeframe.

PS3 isn't a failure because of the PC, 360, or Wii its a failure because it failed to live up to the standard set by its predecessors.

CaptainQuark69

High price + Layoffs due to bad economy = No sales

The fact Sony's console went from first in market share to last makes it a huge failure from a bussiness standpoint.

As far as gaming goes I can't even begin to compare the PS3 to the PS2 or PSX given the same timeframe.

PS3 isn't a failure because of the PC, 360, or Wii its a failure because it failed to live up to the standard set by its predecessors.

nmaharg

You have a weird set of standards for success. The PS3 came out a year later than the 360, and has consistently out sold it since. Yea the Wii has sold the most but so many people buy it just for its shovelware. In terms of games for the hardcore gamer, it's totally a success.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Early on you portrayed Nintendo as a benevolent company and Sony as a big bad evil company. Naturally when you call Sony's library "nothing special," I'm going to compare it to Nintendo's console, especially when Nintendo's console is in 1st place and Sony's console is outperforming it.

- How is it detrimental?

- How does Nintendo have the right idea? Motion technology has proven to do almost nothing for gaming if anything at all.

- You said in terms of sales and game library. The PS3, by definition, is special in that it's a special case for a 3rd place console in terms of both library and sales.

You also said many other things.

gamecubepad

-Yeah, as a machine it is a failure. It certainly has a decent library of games, but the system design was a mess.

-It's clear in my post that I said the PS3 has a decent software library. I was simply commenting on the irony that here in SW 360 and PS3 are all that matters, but in the real world the Wii is a much more successful and important console.

gamecubepad

That's where you stepped in and started to try to push subjective ratings(opinion) in my face as the dominant method of determining success.

Reviews and your opinion on games doesn't change the fact that the PS3 is a Hardware and Software failure. You can say I'm playing sales, but I'm more concerned with business approach each company has taken, and sales are the only factual method to determine the results of each approach.

You love Sony, I love Nintendo. The PS3 is a failure. Sorry the truth hurts so much.

Reviews are not a perfect system of judging, but they certainly tell us something. They don't give a perfectly accurate picture, but they give us a roughly accurate picture.

In what way is the PS3 a software failure? It's getting most of the biggest titles this gen? Sales only tell us sales. Reviews give us a good idea of library quality. They're not just opinions, they're imperfect measures of game quality. More often than not, games of high quality score well. More often than not, games of mediocre to low quality score mediocre to low. And this isn't just true of gamespot, but throughout review sites, magazines, etc. They tend to be roughly the same because they do give a decent picture of how decent a game is and they're not just "lol i don't like this game 5."

I don't "love" Sony. The truth doesn't "hurt" because it's not really the truth. The PS3 is only a failure in the relative terms of failing to meet up to the PS2's standards. But it's not a failure saleswise (it IS selling and will outsell the Wii this year in it's home country). And it's definitely not a failure software wise. Not when it gets big titles like Final Fantasy XIII and Uncharted 2.

Btw, I'd like to know your method of determining that the Wii is not a failure in terms of library.

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]
-Yeah, as a machine it is a failure. It certainly has a decent library of games, but the system design was a mess.

-It's clear in my post that I said the PS3 has a decent software library. I was simply commenting on the irony that here in SW 360 and PS3 are all that matters, but in the real world the Wii is a much more successful and important console.

hakanakumono

That's where you stepped in and started to try to push subjective ratings(opinion) in my face as the dominant method of determining success.

Reviews and your opinion on games doesn't change the fact that the PS3 is a Hardware and Software failure. You can say I'm playing sales, but I'm more concerned with business approach each company has taken, and sales are the only factual method to determine the results of each approach.

You love Sony, I love Nintendo. The PS3 is a failure. Sorry the truth hurts so much.

Reviews are not a perfect system of judging, but they certainly tell us something. They don't give a perfectly accurate picture, but they give us a roughly accurate picture.

In what way is the PS3 a software failure? It's getting most of the biggest titles this gen? Sales only tell us sales. Reviews give us a good idea of library quality. They're not just opinions, they're imperfect measures of game quality. More often than not, games of high quality score well. More often than not, games of mediocre to low quality score mediocre to low. And this isn't just true of gamespot, but throughout review sites, magazines, etc. They tend to be roughly the same because they do give a decent picture of how decent a game is and they're not just "lol i don't like this game 5."

I don't "love" Sony. The truth doesn't "hurt" because it's not really the truth. The PS3 is only a failure in the relative terms of failing to meet up to the PS2's standards. But it's not a failure saleswise (it IS selling and will outsell the Wii this year in it's home country). And it's definitely not a failure software wise. Not when it gets big titles like Final Fantasy XIII and Uncharted 2.

Btw, I'd like to know your method of determining that the Wii is not a failure in terms of library.

Haha, i laughed when you said Final Fantasy XIII

why is everyone argueing, lets all have a game of wii bowling lmao or we could play halo, oh no wait my xbox 360 just broke for the fifth time. end of the day when i play games i want quality and reliability.

wii = reliability

xbox = quality

PS3 = both

the truth is the ps3 has less sales due to prices but since the relaunch with the slim its selling extremely well at the lowered price, the xbox is prob still selling well due to people having to replace due to having such a large quantity of games and dont want to have to start their games collection again, and the wii i just dont have a clue, but go in any decent games shop and there have more wii console preowned than they have games which proves its just a novelty item. i dont want to sit playing games waving a stupid remote about, i want to sit and chill. and im not a fanboy, iv had the lot and still own a huge amount of retro including the orig xbox and gamecube. The clear winner (ps3) will become apparent with time and il remind the TC of that then.