PS3 is slowly but surely overtaking the 360, one step at a time

in 2 years, the 360 dropped their prices by $20 (arcade), $30 (elite) and $50 (pro).

in 1 year, the PS3 dropped by $100 and rearranged their sku's to desperately stay in the race

360 hasn't even got serious with their price drops yet.

[QUOTE="Fumpa"]By the time the PS3 catches up (if it does), it'll be time to buy the next generation systems. Enjoy playing catch-up throughout this generation.Brazil_Surfer

lol ps3 will outlast microsofts next 2 consoles

or more likely, the next xbox will kill the ps3 cause the ps3 won't be "all powerful" anymore

[QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol, ps3 is noting but dead garbage, I cant believe these cows still thik the ps3 is gonna win, lol, GARRYTH

Dont forget the two price cuts in Ps3's first year

At the end of the day, the games are what will make the console. Even if (which I doubt) the PS3 overtakes the 360 in sales, the 360 has already established itself with many AAAs and the year of 08 is better than you think for the 360 with Lost Odyssey, Cry On, Infinite Discovery, Elveon and more.

A lot of the games mentioned will probs get delayed

At the end of the day, the games are what will make the console. Even if (which I doubt) the PS3 overtakes the 360 in sales, the 360 has already established itself with many AAAs and the year of 08 is better than you think for the 360 with Lost Odyssey, Cry On, Infinite Discovery, Cry On and more.

A lot of the games mentioned will probz get delayed

flowdee79

All of the games you mentioned are unproven new IPs. Compare that to Wii with Brawl or Mario Kart or the PS3 with MGS4, GT5, and Tekken 6. Oh, and the PS3/Wii have just as many promising new IPs as the 360 does...

Established franchises are important but a steady stream of new, good IP's is vital.

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.NavigatorsGhost

No, because for the most part, the 360 already has installments of its biggest franchises. Halo, PGR, SC, DOA, FORZA...all those games have already been released, in fact I've probably left out a few. Fable 2 and NG 2 are coming this year, great, should be good. Thats 2 games.

But other than a Gears 2 what else is there to look forward to? Chronicles of Riddick is getting remade, instead of them making a sequel, correct? KOTOR 3 hasn't been announced. A sequel to Jade Empire, who knows?

This is why MS is at a severe disadvantage. They lack far behind Sony and Nintendo in familiar franchises. And while it sucks that most established PS franchises are not first party and thus capable of going elsewhere (DMC4), some of their biggest hitters have remained loyal to the company with the smallest userbase so far this gen.

Lemmings bash the PS3 and cows rightly say "just wait" because THEIR established franchises haven't dropped yet and they have a lot more of them to count on. So until games like MGS4, GT5, TEKKEN 6, SOCOM: CONFRONTATION, FF13 are released, nobody can rightly comment on the issue.

Same number of decent Wii games coming out this year, but I have a horrible feeling that it's going to sell well. Oh and Jade Empire 2 has been confirmed. And Saints Row 2?

[QUOTE="GARRYTH"][QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol, ps3 is noting but dead garbage, I cant believe these cows still thik the ps3 is gonna win, lol, amorbis1001

lol 9 mill, last time I checked it was 6.4 plus the 1.2 sony said which adds up to 7.8. not the cows gotta fake numbers to make em selves feel good.

hater

Well anyway the 360 already seems to have peaked and honestly the 360 has no games this year which will out class it's last years success.

Swift_Boss_A

O RLY? Splinter Cell Conviction, Alan Wake, NG2, Banjo, Fable 2 + many more....this year is looking better then last year for 360 mostly.....except 360 is lacking racing games this year

[QUOTE="flowdee79"]

At the end of the day, the games are what will make the console. Even if (which I doubt) the PS3 overtakes the 360 in sales, the 360 has already established itself with many AAAs and the year of 08 is better than you think for the 360 with Lost Odyssey, Cry On, Infinite Discovery, Cry On and more.

A lot of the games mentioned will probz get delayed

NavigatorsGhost

All of the games you mentioned are unproven new IPs. Compare that to Wii with Brawl or Mario Kart or the PS3 with MGS4, GT5, and Tekken 6. Oh, and the PS3/Wii have just as many promising new IPs as the 360 does...

Lost Odyssey has already been released in Japan.....and Im only talking about RPGs as they appeal to the *** market. As for exclusives, I cant be bothered to list them as Ill inevitably miss a lot.

[QUOTE="amorbis1001"]

[QUOTE="GARRYTH"][QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol, ps3 is noting but dead garbage, I cant believe these cows still thik the ps3 is gonna win, lol, icecoldpersona

lol 9 mill, last time I checked it was 6.4 plus the 1.2 sony said which adds up to 7.8. not the cows gotta fake numbers to make em selves feel good.

hater

Why? Because he can do simple mathematics? I like my PS3, but I have only four games for it, since launch.

Uh...why dont you send in your 360 for a free repair? Then you can have all 3.

i have a ps3 and i love it i had a 360 and i liked that but it broke on me so i got a wii . If by this time next year the 360 has kicked the ps3 in the ass i will (shock) just sell the ps3 and get a 360. i dont get why people give a toss about what wins if sony and ms are having a battle of systems that will make them try harder for the consumer so imo i think the winner of this gen will be...........US the gamers WOW how hard was that to figure out .this war is getting very old darbyshireandy

Is it impossible for you to understand my simple point that MS is lacking in established franchises while Nintendo and Sony are not? Its a fact, get over it. Why do you not understand its significance? Its huge.

How is it difficult for me to understand! I understand more than you mate. I have a degree in physics and plan on starting my doctorate in the next 5 years lol. My ability to understand shall remain without question. I will grant you the same respect if you give it to me.

I understand fully that established franchises are what sell consoles. The PS2 arguably produced some of the greatest franchises of all time. I, like many others are greatly looking forward to MGS, GT5 and I am even intrigued by Killzone 2!There are others that, whilst they are not to my taste, are still very well regarded by many gamers.

The PS3 is built on this success so far.Many who have stuck with the Playstation brand, no doubt have these established IPs in mind when considering to buy the PS3. But, and its a big but! Microsoft are helping to create and (with third party devs) establishnew IPs. Looking at software sales, these new IPs are doingcomparatively well against some of the best PS2 franchises when they were at the same stage after release.

What is a bigger concern is how the PS3 isn t already on top despite having this already huge ps2 fanbase to fall back on!

I didn't say MS should wait before they release their big hitters, but look how far its got them?Ok, yeah lets look at the sales numbers for Mass Effect, Gears of War, Halo 3,Bioshock, etc. Consider also the short amount of time they have had chance to sell and consider yet the relative small install base the 360 has at this moment in time compared to the ps2s biggest franchises, when they were released and their relative install base! Yeah, they are leading the PS3, but that lead is not insurmountable and their established franchises have lacked the impact. PGR and SC were barely acknowledged. Imagine if MGS4 or GT5 were so poorly recieved? PGR, is a little disappointing but look at all the other titles it released with. Surely, you can appreciate that consumers are limited in their spending and that if released on its own, would have done much better. SC...splinter cell? But you are missing the games that weren't poorly received. You're conveniently forgetting the IPs that are new and doing well to fit your argument.

For the most part outside of Halo 3, their franchises haven't moved consoles. The 360 continues to match the ps3 everywhere except in Japan. In Europe, in recent months the PS3 has outsold the 360 by around 10k, whilst in North America, the 360, right up and till Christmas, has been outselling the ps3 by 100k. Right now, when you way up the numbers people post on these forums from NPD to other less reliable sources, to released figures etc they are about equal. cant be bothered getting links but you read the same threads I do and you have seen the info given and you know this is how the story is unfolding thus far. Their biggest games of last year were new IPs. Compare that to the Wii. They already have Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games out and the console is dominating! Do you not see that? Yes but which IPs themselves are selling the most? Which games are passing over the counter and are being bought by consumers???

The posters on here who have already written off the PS3 are in the wrong. I'm not writing off the PS3...I'm just NOT writing off the 360!! As stated numerous times, its biggest games (from established franchises) aren't out yet. You are contradicting yourself now mate. Before you were saying that the 360 line up cannot compete with the ps3 line because the 360 line up consists of new ips, with ps3s 'coming soon' line up being well established IPs. Now you write this..This is like evaulating the 360 before it released Halo, DOA, SC, PGR, FORZA, etc. See what you did, you're now saying we CAN'T evaluate the ps3s up coming games (remember established IPs!!!) because they're not out yet!

Which is it, we can evaluate them becaus ewe know how good they are likely to be and we have a fair idea of how well they will sell by looking at ps2 sales....

or

.....we can't because they're not out yet!

But then again you would just point to the AAA PDO! LMFAO. No, I think that game was not AAA quality.

Halo is one game. It can only do so much for a console. See last gen xbox for proof of that. I'll take 5 games from established franchises as opposed to 1. I'm going to borrow a phrase from your book, 'just wait' and see how the new franchises turn out! and lets not forget......Halo is one h311 of a franchise!

NavigatorsGhost

[QUOTE="DAZZER7"][QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.NavigatorsGhost

No, because for the most part, the 360 already has installments of its biggest franchises. Halo, PGR, SC, DOA, FORZA...all those games have already been released, in fact I've probably left out a few. Fable 2 and NG 2 are coming this year, great, should be good. Thats 2 games.

But other than a Gears 2 what else is there to look forward to? Chronicles of Riddick is getting remade, instead of them making a sequel, correct? KOTOR 3 hasn't been announced. A sequel to Jade Empire, who knows?

This is why MS is at a severe disadvantage. They lack far behind Sony and Nintendo in familiar franchises. And while it sucks that most established PS franchises are not first party and thus capable of going elsewhere (DMC4), some of their biggest hitters have remained loyal to the company with the smallest userbase so far this gen.

Lemmings bash the PS3 and cows rightly say "just wait" because THEIR established franchises haven't dropped yet and they have a lot more of them to count on. So until games like MGS4, GT5, TEKKEN 6, SOCOM: CONFRONTATION, FF13 are released, nobody can rightly comment on the issue.

What, so MS should have waited till this year before releasing their big hitters?

Cows do my nut in! They go on and on as if its the right of Sony to be on top! What rubbish my friend. Things like Sony doing this well despite not having good games says that you are living on past glory.

So basically, there is nothing m$ can do to ever compete with Sony in the console wars? WAKE UP!!

They have really well so far. They have been the ones to win over lots of third party support and build a great library. No matter which way you spin it the 360 is a successful, well supported, established, value for money, not too expensive, great game library console.

You speak of recognised game franchises, ...HALO you knumb-nut is arguably the most recognised game franchise of all time! (Actually I think that goes to Mario), but you get my point. Gears is huge, and who knows how big Bioshock and Mass Effect will eventually turn out to be.

Lissen, you little ..........(I would love to meet such cocky ignorant people like you face to face) Microsoft are not going to quit any time soon. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Apologies to everyone else, I'm not normally this forceful in my use of language or this assertive in making a point (or agressive you would say) but cows are by far the most agressive and negative of all fanboys. It annoys the ..........out of me that they cant see sense.

For what its worth, I think the PS3 will be a great console, right along with the 360!

Is it impossible for you to understand my simple point that MS is lacking in established franchises while Nintendo and Sony are not? Its a fact, get over it. Why do you not understand its significance? Its huge. You are trying to make it seem like a bigger deal then it is. MS still has alot of franchises "left" which you are trying to ignore, in order to make the PS3 look better.

I didn't say MS should wait before they release their big hitters, but look how far its got them? Yeah, they are leading the PS3, but that lead is not insurmountable and their established franchises have lacked the impact. PGR and SC were barely acknowledged. Imagine if MGS4 or GT5 were so poorly recieved? We dont know how well these franchises WILL be recieved, so maybe we shouldnt assume to much?

For the most part outside of Halo 3, their franchises haven't moved consoles. Their biggest games of last year were new IPs. Compare that to the Wii. They already have Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games out and the console is dominating! Do you not see that? You are placing to much importance on these "franchises" my friend. Having developer support is just as importent (if not more), and here MS is really excelling and looking very bright for the future. Companies appear to still support PS3 because they believe they can still get into the game.
Also, as your example of the importance of franchises you say the Wii are selling because of Zelda, Mario and Metroid. While they of course help out in the greater theme, its not like the sales got a spike at release of these titles, the Wii was selling like hot cakes anyway.

The posters on here who have already written off the PS3 are in the wrong. As stated numerous times, its biggest games (from established franchises) aren't out yet. This is like evaulating the 360 before it released Halo, DOA, SC, PGR, FORZA, etc. I wouldnt write of PS3 either.

But then again you would just point to the AAA PDO! LMFAO.

Halo is one game. It can only do so much for a console. See last gen xbox for proof of that. I'll take 5 games from established franchises as opposed to 1. Please stop with this obsession of established franchises. The most important thinf is established developers. No one really wants to keep playing the same stuff with small differences (only Madden and Fifa fans :-P) And generally developer support is way more important. Look at PS1 vs. N64.

[QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"][QUOTE="DAZZER7"][QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.Krisgebis

No, because for the most part, the 360 already has installments of its biggest franchises. Halo, PGR, SC, DOA, FORZA...all those games have already been released, in fact I've probably left out a few. Fable 2 and NG 2 are coming this year, great, should be good. Thats 2 games.

But other than a Gears 2 what else is there to look forward to? Chronicles of Riddick is getting remade, instead of them making a sequel, correct? KOTOR 3 hasn't been announced. A sequel to Jade Empire, who knows?

This is why MS is at a severe disadvantage. They lack far behind Sony and Nintendo in familiar franchises. And while it sucks that most established PS franchises are not first party and thus capable of going elsewhere (DMC4), some of their biggest hitters have remained loyal to the company with the smallest userbase so far this gen.

Lemmings bash the PS3 and cows rightly say "just wait" because THEIR established franchises haven't dropped yet and they have a lot more of them to count on. So until games like MGS4, GT5, TEKKEN 6, SOCOM: CONFRONTATION, FF13 are released, nobody can rightly comment on the issue.

What, so MS should have waited till this year before releasing their big hitters?

Cows do my nut in! They go on and on as if its the right of Sony to be on top! What rubbish my friend. Things like Sony doing this well despite not having good games says that you are living on past glory.

So basically, there is nothing m$ can do to ever compete with Sony in the console wars? WAKE UP!!

They have really well so far. They have been the ones to win over lots of third party support and build a great library. No matter which way you spin it the 360 is a successful, well supported, established, value for money, not too expensive, great game library console.

You speak of recognised game franchises, ...HALO you knumb-nut is arguably the most recognised game franchise of all time! (Actually I think that goes to Mario), but you get my point. Gears is huge, and who knows how big Bioshock and Mass Effect will eventually turn out to be.

Lissen, you little ..........(I would love to meet such cocky ignorant people like you face to face) Microsoft are not going to quit any time soon. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Apologies to everyone else, I'm not normally this forceful in my use of language or this assertive in making a point (or agressive you would say) but cows are by far the most agressive and negative of all fanboys. It annoys the ..........out of me that they cant see sense.

For what its worth, I think the PS3 will be a great console, right along with the 360!

Is it impossible for you to understand my simple point that MS is lacking in established franchises while Nintendo and Sony are not? Its a fact, get over it. Why do you not understand its significance? Its huge. You are trying to make it seem like a bigger deal then it is. MS still has alot of franchises "left" which you are trying to ignore, in order to make the PS3 look better.

I didn't say MS should wait before they release their big hitters, but look how far its got them? Yeah, they are leading the PS3, but that lead is not insurmountable and their established franchises have lacked the impact. PGR and SC were barely acknowledged. Imagine if MGS4 or GT5 were so poorly recieved? We dont know how well these franchises WILL be recieved, so maybe we shouldnt assume to much?

For the most part outside of Halo 3, their franchises haven't moved consoles. Their biggest games of last year were new IPs. Compare that to the Wii. They already have Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games out and the console is dominating! Do you not see that? You are placing to much importance on these "franchises" my friend. Having developer support is just as importent (if not more), and here MS is really excelling and looking very bright for the future. Companies appear to still support PS3 because they believe they can still get into the game.
Also, as your example of the importance of franchises you say the Wii are selling because of Zelda, Mario and Metroid. While they of course help out in the greater theme, its not like the sales got a spike at release of these titles, the Wii was selling like hot cakes anyway.

The posters on here who have already written off the PS3 are in the wrong. As stated numerous times, its biggest games (from established franchises) aren't out yet. This is like evaulating the 360 before it released Halo, DOA, SC, PGR, FORZA, etc. I wouldnt write of PS3 either.

But then again you would just point to the AAA PDO! LMFAO.

Halo is one game. It can only do so much for a console. See last gen xbox for proof of that. I'll take 5 games from established franchises as opposed to 1. Please stop with this obsession of established franchises. The most important thinf is established developers. No one really wants to keep playing the same stuff with small differences (only Madden and Fifa fans :-P) And generally developer support is way more important. Look at PS1 vs. N64.

I was going to say /owned at the end of my post, but now with your answer aswell to his post, I feel obliged to say /doubly owned! lol

Where'd he go? *shrugs*

[QUOTE="icecoldpersona"][QUOTE="amorbis1001"]

[QUOTE="GARRYTH"][QUOTE="amorbis1001"]lol, ps3 is noting but dead garbage, I cant believe these cows still thik the ps3 is gonna win, lol, james28893

lol 9 mill, last time I checked it was 6.4 plus the 1.2 sony said which adds up to 7.8. not the cows gotta fake numbers to make em selves feel good.

hater

Why? Because he can do simple mathematics? I like my PS3, but I have only four games for it, since launch.

lol, I have a ps3 and 5 of wat is called theee best game for it. unchartered, R&C ftod, motorstorm, resistance, and warhawk. and none of these game ive play for more than a week, well thats 600 bucks well spent huh.

lol yes America is the biggest market but America is also the only market that cares about the 360 considering the 360 is dead in Japan and performing lacklustre in Europe.

Last year Microsoft fell flat in Japan which is no doubt an important market, the PS3 overtook despite 360's year alone effort and 2 launches.

This year, the year 2008 you will witness the downfall of 360 in Europe, 360 has been doing lacklustre despite year lead and the PS3 is rapidly catching up.

Also my friends Microsofts home advantage is the final downfall. In the year 2009 you will witness the fall of 360's major advantage. The PS3 shall overtake 360 in America thus leaving 360 trailing behind in 3rd place by fall 09 just about 3 years after the launch of the PS3, this will leave PS3 having great success the remainder of it's lifespan which will be another 5 years after it had overtaken the 360 worldwide.

You want games, you can't handle the games !.... well here they are anyway :)

100+ titles I believe. Here are the known titles below:

1. White Knight (2008 )
2. Infamous (2008 )
3. Eight Days (2008 or early 2009)
4. WarDevil (2008 )
5. Nobi Nobi Boy (2008 or early 2009)
6. Afrika (2008 )
7. L.A. Noir (2009)
8. Heavy Rain (2008 or 2009)
9. Final Fantasy versus 13 (2009)
10. God Of War 3 (2009)
11. Tekken 6 (2008 )
12. The Getaway 3 (2008 )
13. Resistance 2 (2008 )
14. Motorstorm 2 (2008 )
15. Final Fantasy 13 (2008 or early 2009 )
16. Metal Gear Online (2008 )
17. LittleBigPlanet (2008 )
18. Metal Gear Solid 4 (2008 )
19. Gran Turismo 5 (2008 )
20. Killzone 2 (2008 )
21. Disgaea 3 (2008 )
22. Kurayami (late 2008 or 2009 )
23. Naruto: PS3 Project (2008 )
24. Yakuza 3 (2008 )
25. Wipeout PS3 (2008 or 2009 )
26. The Agency (2008 )
27. DC Universe (2008 may slip to 2009 )
28. Everybody's Golf 5 (2008 )
29. Eyedentify (2008 )
30. Fifth Phantom Saga (2008 )
31. Free Realms (2008 )
32. Haze (2008 )
33. Star Ocean 4 (2008 )
34. Way of the Samurai 3 (2008 )
35. SOCOM: Confrontation (2008 )

I would also like to add that there are LOTS more exclusive titles which are either TBA or name unknown, games like Syphon Filter, Jak 4, ZOE3, Cellius games, Jaffe's new studio games, Rockstar's PS3 exclusives etc etc.

The list can be seen from the website below:

http://neocrisis.com/content/view/848/

----------------

Understand. One step at a time but it will happen.

Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.D0013ER

all of 360's big games have already been released

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.mistervengeance

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.mistervengeance

all of 360's big games have already been released

So the PS3 is going to "catch" the 360 by selling less units than the 360 every month?

Cow logic FTW

[QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"][QUOTE="DAZZER7"][QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.Krisgebis

No, because for the most part, the 360 already has installments of its biggest franchises. Halo, PGR, SC, DOA, FORZA...all those games have already been released, in fact I've probably left out a few. Fable 2 and NG 2 are coming this year, great, should be good. Thats 2 games.

But other than a Gears 2 what else is there to look forward to? Chronicles of Riddick is getting remade, instead of them making a sequel, correct? KOTOR 3 hasn't been announced. A sequel to Jade Empire, who knows?

This is why MS is at a severe disadvantage. They lack far behind Sony and Nintendo in familiar franchises. And while it sucks that most established PS franchises are not first party and thus capable of going elsewhere (DMC4), some of their biggest hitters have remained loyal to the company with the smallest userbase so far this gen.

Lemmings bash the PS3 and cows rightly say "just wait" because THEIR established franchises haven't dropped yet and they have a lot more of them to count on. So until games like MGS4, GT5, TEKKEN 6, SOCOM: CONFRONTATION, FF13 are released, nobody can rightly comment on the issue.

What, so MS should have waited till this year before releasing their big hitters?

Cows do my nut in! They go on and on as if its the right of Sony to be on top! What rubbish my friend. Things like Sony doing this well despite not having good games says that you are living on past glory.

So basically, there is nothing m$ can do to ever compete with Sony in the console wars? WAKE UP!!

They have really well so far. They have been the ones to win over lots of third party support and build a great library. No matter which way you spin it the 360 is a successful, well supported, established, value for money, not too expensive, great game library console.

You speak of recognised game franchises, ...HALO you knumb-nut is arguably the most recognised game franchise of all time! (Actually I think that goes to Mario), but you get my point. Gears is huge, and who knows how big Bioshock and Mass Effect will eventually turn out to be.

Lissen, you little ..........(I would love to meet such cocky ignorant people like you face to face) Microsoft are not going to quit any time soon. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Apologies to everyone else, I'm not normally this forceful in my use of language or this assertive in making a point (or agressive you would say) but cows are by far the most agressive and negative of all fanboys. It annoys the ..........out of me that they cant see sense.

For what its worth, I think the PS3 will be a great console, right along with the 360!

Is it impossible for you to understand my simple point that MS is lacking in established franchises while Nintendo and Sony are not? Its a fact, get over it. Why do you not understand its significance? Its huge. You are trying to make it seem like a bigger deal then it is. MS still has alot of franchises "left" which you are trying to ignore, in order to make the PS3 look better.

No, I'm not. List the rest of Microsoft's established franchises, based off of their one previous generation of experience in the videogame industry with the original xbox.

Halo

Kotor

PGR

Forza

Jade Empire

Chronicles of Riddick?

Fable

Ninja Gaiden

Splinter Cell

What am I missing? And how many of those series have already released installments this gen? Seriously, what other xbox franchises are there? You ask what lemmings are looking forward to in 08 and it comes down to Fable 2 (who most of you ignored on the original xbox) and Ninja Gaiden 2. What else do they list? New IPs. For which every promising one for the 360 has a counterpart on the PS3. Oh, and lets not forget how often Banjo gets mentioned! And what do you know, its an established franchise!

I'm not trying to make the PS3 look better. Currently its behind the 360, I'm disappointed in it. But anyone who knows anything about the gaming industry can look at the upcoming games list for 08 and it would be close to impossible to say the 360 has a stronger one (on paper) than PS3.

I didn't say MS should wait before they release their big hitters, but look how far its got them? Yeah, they are leading the PS3, but that lead is not insurmountable and their established franchises have lacked the impact. PGR and SC were barely acknowledged. Imagine if MGS4 or GT5 were so poorly recieved? We dont know how well these franchises WILL be recieved, so maybe we shouldnt assume to much?

UM, thats the point. THEY ARE ALREADY ESTABLISHED. They will sell based on name alone. None of the MGS or GT games have flopped in sales or reviews, they are two of the most popular franchises from the last two generations of gaming. They are two of the most mentioned games on this website's forums. That should tell you how anticipated the sequels are. A sure thing does not exist in gaming, the entertainment industry period. But games like MGS4 and GT5 are as close to being sure things as anything.

For the most part outside of Halo 3, their franchises haven't moved consoles. Their biggest games of last year were new IPs. Compare that to the Wii. They already have Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games out and the console is dominating! Do you not see that? You are placing to much importance on these "franchises" my friend. Having developer support is just as importent (if not more), and here MS is really excelling and looking very bright for the future. Companies appear to still support PS3 because they believe they can still get into the game.
Also, as your example of the importance of franchises you say the Wii are selling because of Zelda, Mario and Metroid. While they of course help out in the greater theme, its not like the sales got a spike at release of these titles, the Wii was selling like hot cakes anyway.

Um, Zelda and SMG are in the top 5 best selling Wii games. They are of course behind the included Wii Sports, plus Wii Play. No console currently has a dominant edge in third party support this gen. Why? Because they are smart enough not to pigeonhole themselves into one console as of now.

The posters on here who have already written off the PS3 are in the wrong. As stated numerous times, its biggest games (from established franchises) aren't out yet. This is like evaulating the 360 before it released Halo, DOA, SC, PGR, FORZA, etc. I wouldnt write of PS3 either.

Good. Don't.

But then again you would just point to the AAA PDO! LMFAO.

Halo is one game. It can only do so much for a console. See last gen xbox for proof of that. I'll take 5 games from established franchises as opposed to 1. Please stop with this obsession of established franchises. The most important thinf is established developers. No one really wants to keep playing the same stuff with small differences (only Madden and Fifa fans :-P) And generally developer support is way more important. Look at PS1 vs. N64.

THE VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY IS DOMINATED BY CASUALS (See the Wii's success as proof). Casuals don't know who the hell develops games, even their favorite games. All they know are the titles and the memorable characters.

PS1 vs N64 is a whole other animal. You had the glaring differences between cartridges and CDs. Funny that most of the memorable games from N64 were established franchises like Mario and Zelda and Donkey Kong. And lets not forget that some of the highest rated and best selling games on PS1 - FF7, FF8, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, and Metal Gear Solid were all installments in previous established franchises.

Look at what propelled the PS2 to success. MGS2, FF10, and GTA 3 all in the same year. All established franchises, all among the best selling games of last gen.

And Madden sells tremendously every year. So someone must enjoy it, right?

You are missing the point. Of course it requires a mix of established franchises and new IPs for a console to succeed. But with already established franchises, the public is already familiar with the game. They know the characters. You don't have to sell it to them. A brand new IP? You have to get the name out there, exploit the characters, sell the concept.

Do not continue to underestimate the importance of established franchises. Why do you think its such big news that GTA and DMC went multiplatform this gen?

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.mistervengeance

all of 360's big games have already been released

We'll hear more of the 360's line up for 2008 now we're in 2008, unlike the PS3 the 360 had some worthwhile games out in 2007 to concentrate on rather than saying "just wait till 2008"

[QUOTE="Blue-Sphere"]Just because the 360 may or may not have games that will "broaden the user base" or sell like H3 or GeoW doesn't automatically mean the 360 won't have any good games. :|Swift_Boss_A

You absolutely right :) but you see Microsoft is in a competition with Sony and as it it stand Microsoft doesn't have a game this year which will allow it to stand up to PS3 considering PS3 has killer app titles like MGS4, LBP, GT5 Tekken 6 and possibly FF13 along with other potential killer apps. Good games won't cut it for Microsoft this year if they hope to keep that 7 million gap with PS3.

Well also the PS3 will no doubt overtake 360 in Europe this year where the 360 is performing quite lacklustre, the PS3 is rapidly catching up fast.

I never thought that Tekken 6 nd LBP were killer ap games

PS3 08 is OOOOOOVER-AAAAAAAAATED! MGS IV and Killzone 2, wooooooopty doooooooo

[QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.turgore

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

yea, fable 2 is the best RPG ever made IMO. Halo Wars is the best console RTS ever, Too Human is the craziest action game ever

it would of been a lot easier to say "just wait".TheDarkDisciple

lol, this thread could have ended right there. :lol:

[QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"]

Is it impossible for you to understand my simple point that MS is lacking in established franchises while Nintendo and Sony are not? Its a fact, get over it. Why do you not understand its significance? Its huge.

How is it difficult for me to understand! I understand more than you mate. I have a degree in physics and plan on starting my doctorate in the next 5 years lol. My ability to understand shall remain without question. I will grant you the same respect if you give it to me.

I understand fully that established franchises are what sell consoles. The PS2 arguably produced some of the greatest franchises of all time. I, like many others are greatly looking forward to MGS, GT5 and I am even intrigued by Killzone 2!There are others that, whilst they are not to my taste, are still very well regarded by many gamers.

The PS3 is built on this success so far.Many who have stuck with the Playstation brand, no doubt have these established IPs in mind when considering to buy the PS3. But, and its a big but! Microsoft are helping to create and (with third party devs) establishnew IPs. Looking at software sales, these new IPs are doingcomparatively well against some of the best PS2 franchises when they were at the same stage after release.

What is a bigger concern is how the PS3 isn t already on top despite having this already huge ps2 fanbase to fall back on!

I didn't say MS should wait before they release their big hitters, but look how far its got them?Ok, yeah lets look at the sales numbers for Mass Effect, Gears of War, Halo 3,Bioshock, etc. Consider also the short amount of time they have had chance to sell and consider yet the relative small install base the 360 has at this moment in time compared to the ps2s biggest franchises, when they were released and their relative install base! Yeah, they are leading the PS3, but that lead is not insurmountable and their established franchises have lacked the impact. PGR and SC were barely acknowledged. Imagine if MGS4 or GT5 were so poorly recieved? PGR, is a little disappointing but look at all the other titles it released with. Surely, you can appreciate that consumers are limited in their spending and that if released on its own, would have done much better. SC...splinter cell? But you are missing the games that weren't poorly received. You're conveniently forgetting the IPs that are new and doing well to fit your argument.

For the most part outside of Halo 3, their franchises haven't moved consoles. The 360 continues to match the ps3 everywhere except in Japan. In Europe, in recent months the PS3 has outsold the 360 by around 10k, whilst in North America, the 360, right up and till Christmas, has been outselling the ps3 by 100k. Right now, when you way up the numbers people post on these forums from NPD to other less reliable sources, to released figures etc they are about equal. cant be bothered getting links but you read the same threads I do and you have seen the info given and you know this is how the story is unfolding thus far. Their biggest games of last year were new IPs. Compare that to the Wii. They already have Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games out and the console is dominating! Do you not see that? Yes but which IPs themselves are selling the most? Which games are passing over the counter and are being bought by consumers???

The posters on here who have already written off the PS3 are in the wrong. I'm not writing off the PS3...I'm just NOT writing off the 360!! As stated numerous times, its biggest games (from established franchises) aren't out yet. You are contradicting yourself now mate. Before you were saying that the 360 line up cannot compete with the ps3 line because the 360 line up consists of new ips, with ps3s 'coming soon' line up being well established IPs. Now you write this..This is like evaulating the 360 before it released Halo, DOA, SC, PGR, FORZA, etc. See what you did, you're now saying we CAN'T evaluate the ps3s up coming games (remember established IPs!!!) because they're not out yet!

Which is it, we can evaluate them becaus ewe know how good they are likely to be and we have a fair idea of how well they will sell by looking at ps2 sales....

or

.....we can't because they're not out yet!

But then again you would just point to the AAA PDO! LMFAO. No, I think that game was not AAA quality.

Halo is one game. It can only do so much for a console. See last gen xbox for proof of that. I'll take 5 games from established franchises as opposed to 1. I'm going to borrow a phrase from your book, 'just wait' and see how the new franchises turn out! and lets not forget......Halo is one h311 of a franchise!

DAZZER7

To be honest, I wasn't even going to respond to your post after you felt like explaining how awesome you are studying physics in college, Thats great, but it has nothing to do with videogame discussion.

MS is developing new IPs? Really? No way. And finding success? NO WAY! They must be the only ones.:roll:

That doesn't change the fact that their popular, established franchises are few and far between. Compare the hype between these games:

MGS4 and Splinter Cell whatever the hell number they are on now. Next one should be Splinter Cell: Resurrection. Sam Fisher returns as a zombie! That would move consoles.

GT5 and Forza or PGR (a series that was for some reason compared to GT for years, until the better alternative Forza came about and everyone forgot about PGR)

TEKKEN 6 and DOA 4 OR 5 (pick one, who cares, its all flash (pun intended) and no substance)

SOCOM: CONFRONTATION and what? For all the shooters MS has, its got nothing like SOCOM.

Does MS have franchises that are better than their Sony counterparts? Of course. In some cases Sony doesn't even have a similar franchise. Ninja Gaiden has no rival on any Sony platform. DMC was probably the closest thing and its no longer an exclusive series. And the closest thing to Fable is probably Dark Cloud. But do Ninja Gaiden 2 (NEWSFLASH: casuals hate difficult games) and Fable 2 have what it takes to out perform MGS4 and GT5? Not on this planet.

So while lemmings are putting their hopes of success on games like Halo Wars and Alan Wake and Too Human in 08 and a couple of established franchises (Fable 2, NG 2), cows have just as many promising new IPs and a bunch of established franchises. And lets not forget beyond 08. FF13 along with plenty of un-announced franchises like Twisted Metal, Suikoden are likely still on the way for the PS3.

Don't compare 360 game sales to PS2 game sales. This industry is significantly larger now, and skews any sales comparisons.

And um, 4 of the 10 bestselling PS2 games released in the first year or so of the console's launch. GTA3, GT3, FF10, and MGS2 all came out in 2001. All established franchises. And oddly enough their sequels take up another 3 spots in the top 10 bestselling PS2 games. But again, established franchises aren't significant, right?

Why do you continue to bring up successful new IPs when defending failed installments of established franchises? They have nothing to do with each other. You are really just taking the discussion off topic.

And I didn't contradict myself at all. You simply misread what I said. Its not fair to judge the PS3 before its biggest franchises have released games this gen, same goes for the other consoles. I'm not talking about new IPs here. Would you judge the 360 before Halo 3 or Forza came out? No. But those games are already out. Its fair to assess them and what've they done for the 360.

That said, when looking at the games list for 08, the PS3 has a decidedly better lineup on paper. And once PS3 has some of its big hitters (again, not referring to new IPs) released, then you can go ahead and compare the consoles.

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.NavigatorsGhost

No, because for the most part, the 360 already has installments of its biggest franchises. Halo, PGR, SC, DOA, FORZA...all those games have already been released, in fact I've probably left out a few. Fable 2 and NG 2 are coming this year, great, should be good. Thats 2 games.

But other than a Gears 2 what else is there to look forward to? Chronicles of Riddick is getting remade, instead of them making a sequel, correct? KOTOR 3 hasn't been announced. A sequel to Jade Empire, who knows?

This is why MS is at a severe disadvantage. They lack far behind Sony and Nintendo in familiar franchises. And while it sucks that most established PS franchises are not first party and thus capable of going elsewhere (DMC4), some of their biggest hitters have remained loyal to the company with the smallest userbase so far this gen.

Lemmings bash the PS3 and cows rightly say "just wait" because THEIR established franchises haven't dropped yet and they have a lot more of them to count on. So until games like MGS4, GT5, TEKKEN 6, SOCOM: CONFRONTATION, FF13 are released, nobody can rightly comment on the issue.

I for one enjoy my new IPs like Gears of War, Viva Pinata, Dead Rising, Eternal Sonata, ect.

[QUOTE="Riverwolf007"]

Another religious argument.

I own both and can say without reservation that the PS3 is an ok system if that's all you can have. Maybe someday I can base my purchase decisions on my level of emotional attachment I have with the product but that day is not today.

The PS3 may pass the 360 in sales at some point but I don't care about populartity I care about what games I get to play.

I blew the money on the PS3 and 360 in order to play games, I will blow the money on the next Xbox in 2010 or 2011 so I can play whatever it has.

Who ends up in third or fourth place behind the Wii and PC is not really my problem.

cosmostein77

Very well said.

[QUOTE="NavigatorsGhost"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.DrinkDuff

No, because for the most part, the 360 already has installments of its biggest franchises. Halo, PGR, SC, DOA, FORZA...all those games have already been released, in fact I've probably left out a few. Fable 2 and NG 2 are coming this year, great, should be good. Thats 2 games.

But other than a Gears 2 what else is there to look forward to? Chronicles of Riddick is getting remade, instead of them making a sequel, correct? KOTOR 3 hasn't been announced. A sequel to Jade Empire, who knows?

This is why MS is at a severe disadvantage. They lack far behind Sony and Nintendo in familiar franchises. And while it sucks that most established PS franchises are not first party and thus capable of going elsewhere (DMC4), some of their biggest hitters have remained loyal to the company with the smallest userbase so far this gen.

Lemmings bash the PS3 and cows rightly say "just wait" because THEIR established franchises haven't dropped yet and they have a lot more of them to count on. So until games like MGS4, GT5, TEKKEN 6, SOCOM: CONFRONTATION, FF13 are released, nobody can rightly comment on the issue.

I for one enjoy my new IPs like Gears of War, Viva Pinata, Dead Rising, Eternal Sonata, ect.

THIS IS NOW THE THIRD TIME.

I never said new IPs are a bad thing.

You have to have them, obviously. But you cannot rely on them, you can't depend on them. You can create a crappy game (according to reviewes) and still do well in sales (see 50 Cent's game). You can also create an exceptional game (according to reviews) that does not do well in sales (Okami). Its a crapshoot.

On the other hand, if you have an established franchise, you are almost guaranteed a certain level of success. Casual gamers will buy the game because they recognize the characters, its familar to them, its popular.

Oh, you enjoyed Devil May Cry 1? Why not buy Devil May Cry 2 (Whoops).

Hardcore gamers will buy the game because of its track record, the story, and again, the characters. Is it true that they will be turned off by poor reviews? Of course. But posters on here admit all the time that they don't care what certain games score, they will buy them regardless. MGS4 could get a 2.0, I'll still buy it.

All I've been saying the whole time is that having an abundance of established franchises is a distinct and apparent advantage. Thats it.

[QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.turgore

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

gears 2 maybe, but NG won't push any consoles

[QUOTE="turgore"][QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year._KenKittyragi_

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

yea, fable 2 is the best RPG ever made IMO. Halo Wars is the best console RTS ever, Too Human is the craziest action game ever

[QUOTE="_KenKittyragi_"][QUOTE="turgore"][QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.EVOLV3

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

yea, fable 2 is the best RPG ever made IMO. Halo Wars is the best console RTS ever, Too Human is the craziest action game ever

Saying Fable 2 isn't going to do well just because of the combat controls is pure ignorance. This game is probably going to be one of the most innovative and uniqye RPG's ever, if not Fallout 3. BTW, that was sarcasm. Read the other posts.

[QUOTE="_KenKittyragi_"][QUOTE="turgore"][QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.EVOLV3

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

yea, fable 2 is the best RPG ever made IMO. Halo Wars is the best console RTS ever, Too Human is the craziest action game ever

uh you just owned yourself. Read the posts a little more carefully. Someone stated that all of 360s big games were already released. Then someone commented that yeah, NG2 and Gears are already out, jokingly. Then someone else followed that up with how awesome Fable 2 and Halo Wars are, again jokingly.

And Fable 2 is going to kick ass...

[QUOTE="EVOLV3"][QUOTE="_KenKittyragi_"][QUOTE="turgore"][QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.NavigatorsGhost

all of 360's big games have already been released

Yeah hes right because I'm playing Ninja Gaiden 2 and Gears 2 right now .

yea, fable 2 is the best RPG ever made IMO. Halo Wars is the best console RTS ever, Too Human is the craziest action game ever

uh you just owned yourself. Read the posts a little more carefully. Someone stated that all of 360s big games were already released. Then someone commented that yeah, NG2 and Gears are already out, jokingly. Then someone else followed that up with how awesome Fable 2 and Halo Wars are, again jokingly.

And Fable 2 is going to kick ass...

I know it really is going to own. You can get pregnant, have a dog, and raise a family.

i got a question for tc why havent you bought a ps3 yet?

Here's my question: Even if the 360's 08 year is a dud, don't 360 owners have a, "just wait" year to fall back on? Seems only fair seeing as how that's all you heard from most PS3 owners last year.D0013ER

No way will '08 be a dud year: burnout paradise, dmc4, gta4, halo wars, too human, fable 2, fallout 3, ninja gaiden 2, condemned 2, resident evil 5, brothers in arms, world in conflict, lost odyssey, bully, rainbow six vegas, battlefield bad company, dark sector, unreal tournament 3, soul caliber 4, splinter cell conviction, left 4 dead, and yes I know many are multiplat, but the 360 tends to get the superior version in most cases.

Well sense you have a magical crystal ball can you tell me if the world will end in 2012?

That being said 360 has lots of great games coming out this year and many more games to look forward to in the future. You wont see xbox 3 until December 2009 i guarantee it and yes im estimating but December 2009 is right before new years so you can actually say the next xbox is being released one month before 2010.

However i do not got a crystal ball I'm just guessing. Whats going to happen is when 360 does drop out of the consolerace at about 25-30 million consoles sold (Good number) Ps3 will obviously overtake 360 due to the two extra years it gets. This however wont count. The consoles will be judged at the five year mark of there life spans.

360 in 5 years= ??
Ps3 in 5 years= ??
Wii in 5 years= ??

Xbox 360 is already in its 3rd year
Ps3 is already in its 2nd year
Wii is already in its 2nd year

Now you may be thinking (If your a sony fanboy) THIS IS NOT FAIR your a idiot the console race ends when there next generation consoles are released.

Though how is it fair if Ps3 gets a extra two years? Yeah exactly stfu (No harm intended :D)

All i have to say is sony would be stupid to fall behind again. Xbox 3 comes out with better then crysis looking graphics and has a two year head start so that's estimately 5-10 million consoles sold head start.

Personally i think consoles should only go for five years and that's it. PC's already surpass console hardware within the 2nd year its released so its kind of stupid that you will have millions of sony ps3 fans wanting next gen graphics with there only option to go to xbox 3 or wait until ps4.