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#51 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...Rashpal

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

17 years ago

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#52 shadow_lord_11

Member since 2004 • 20792 Posts

[QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

sure.

17 years ago

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#53 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="deadmeat59"]first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii #2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player # 3 easy to use interface #4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360 #5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways #6 wireles controller #7 u can look at web pages #8 free online #9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360 #10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.

then whats the point of a "gaming" console if your not talking about games?

lmfao

I buy my video game systems FOR VIDEO GAMES!!

17 years ago

13692

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Member since 2004 • 13692 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="lowe0"][QUOTE="deadmeat59"] #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii.

Sony fans often say that the PS3 is more powerful than 360, but I have yet to see any technical proof, nor any games consclusively demonstrating this.

Go get a High end pc, you can do more stuff, more hardware, and more.

Heh, I'm a Mac user - I got sick of building my own PCs. The only things I use my PC for anymore are Visual Studio 2005 and Battlefield 2142, and neither one really uses a ton of power.

17 years ago

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#55 tricyclon123

Member since 2007 • 436 Posts

first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii #2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player # 3 easy to use interface #4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360 #5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways #6 wireles controller #7 u can look at web pages #8 free online #9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360 #10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.deadmeat59

Comparing to 360, yes it does bad, it is more expensive, has far less interesting games announced and far less new IP's, about same graphics, gets games 360 had a year back, some looking worst too, Oblivion without AA and HDR etc etc

I would not call that a bargain really, i am in the fence to get one in a month in Europe, but i tried to find those games to make me get one, and i see that i had better invest in games like Mass Effect and Bioshock, Halo 3, Lost Planet, Lost Odyssey on 360 than get PS3 now, i will save and get it first thing in 2008

17 years ago

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#56 shadow_lord_11

Member since 2004 • 20792 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...gigabrowser12

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

and payed 200 bucks for it to boot.

BUT WAIT! "in a fews years, everyone will have a hdtv so its best to get blue ray now!!" AM I RITE?

17 years ago

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#57 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...shadow_lord_11

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

and payed 200 bucks for it to boot.

BUT WAIT! "in a fews years, everyone will have a hdtv so its best to get blue ray now!!" AM I RITE?

Blue ray isn't the only format you know...

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
fixer293

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

But it's true, I don't have to go out and re-buy all my movies like PS3 owners do, I buy what I want when I want and have time to save the money up.

NB: your DVD collection will work fine on the system as it also supports DVDs. It's a myth that consumers will have to buy their collection again because of PS3. If they were to buy it again, it'll more likely be because they've moved on to HDTVs and DVD isn't the most appropriate format for the display.

So, I buy Blu-ray and have to watch movies that don't look any better on the PS3. Why don't I just buy a 360 for $200 cheaper and watch my DVD's on a DVD player. See what I'm saying, you will have to rebuy all your movies in a new format to get the higher resolution.

You keep using the word "have" as if buying PS3 immediatelly implys you need to invest in Blu-ray content. You invest in the content IF YOU WANT TO. And you'll only do that if you have a HD display which you will eventually whether you have a 360 or PS3, because that's how you'll make the most of the graphical fidelity of the systems.

17 years ago

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#59 shadow_lord_11

Member since 2004 • 20792 Posts

[QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...gigabrowser12

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

and payed 200 bucks for it to boot.

BUT WAIT! "in a fews years, everyone will have a hdtv so its best to get blue ray now!!" AM I RITE?

Blue ray isn't the only format you know...

i was agreeing with you.

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
thehype16

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

the wait argument is pathetic damage control the forced argument is true and has already happened no matter what all the time we hear cows say just wait.

So I guess you won't appreciate the irony in my rebuttal: lets wait and see shall we...

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...gigabrowser12

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

If you have a 360 or PS3 you'll want one eventually. How else are you going to show of those fantastic graphics???

17 years ago

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#62 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

But it's true, I don't have to go out and re-buy all my movies like PS3 owners do, I buy what I want when I want and have time to save the money up.

NB: your DVD collection will work fine on the system as it also supports DVDs. It's a myth that consumers will have to buy their collection again because of PS3. If they were to buy it again, it'll more likely be because they've moved on to HDTVs and DVD isn't the most appropriate format for the display.

So, I buy Blu-ray and have to watch movies that don't look any better on the PS3. Why don't I just buy a 360 for $200 cheaper and watch my DVD's on a DVD player. See what I'm saying, you will have to rebuy all your movies in a new format to get the higher resolution.

You keep using the word "have" as if buying PS3 immediatelly implys you need to invest in Blu-ray content. You invest in the content IF YOU WANT TO. And you'll only do that if you have a HD display which you will eventually whether you have a 360 or PS3, because that's how you'll make the most of the graphical fidelity of the systems.

So if you don't buy anything, thats a waste of a player no? The wii looks fine, it's not HD.

17 years ago

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#63 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...Rashpal

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

If you have a 360 or PS3 you'll want one eventually. How else are you going to show of those fantastic graphics???

WHAT IF YOU DON"T WANT THEM, HD T.V. S ARE OVEREXPOSED to coulorful, it's painful.

17 years ago

SmashBrosLegend

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#64 SmashBrosLegend

Member since 2006 • 11344 Posts

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii #2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player # 3 easy to use interface #4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360 #5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways #6 wireles controller #7 u can look at web pages #8 free online #9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360 #10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.

sigh... 1. Whether it is more powerful than 360 is yet to be proven 2. Blu Ray is not needed for gaming. What if Blu Ray fails? Then the PS3 doesn't seem like such a sweet deal, does it? 3. All of them have simple interfaces, none more so than Wii 4. What about the new 120Gb 360, and also what does this have to do with gaming? 5. Wii can do that with DS 6. all of them have a wireless controller 7. Wii has a better web browser 8. Wii will have free online as well, and XBL pwns them both anyways 9. That has nothing to do with gaming 10. "Formates" is not a word.

17 years ago

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#65 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"][QUOTE="deadmeat59"]first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii #2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player # 3 easy to use interface #4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360 #5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways #6 wireles controller #7 u can look at web pages #8 free online #9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360 #10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.

sigh... 1. Whether it is more powerful than 360 is yet to be proven 2. Blu Ray is not needed for gaming. What if Blu Ray fails? Then the PS3 doesn't seem like such a sweet deal, does it? 3. All of them have simple interfaces, none more so than Wii 4. What about the new 120Gb 360, and also what does this have to do with gaming? 5. Wii can do that with DS 6. all of them have a wireless controller 7. Wii has a better web browser 8. Wii will have free online as well, and XBL pwns them both anyways 9. That has nothing to do with gaming 10. "Formates" is not a word.

11. Wii has online in japan, check pokemon battle revolution.

17 years ago

7859

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Member since 2006 • 7859 Posts

PS3 sucks . End thread/

17 years ago

1647

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#67 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="SmashBrosLegend"][QUOTE="deadmeat59"]first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii #2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player # 3 easy to use interface #4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360 #5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways #6 wireles controller #7 u can look at web pages #8 free online #9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360 #10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.

sigh... 1. Whether it is more powerful than 360 is yet to be proven 2. Blu Ray is not needed for gaming. What if Blu Ray fails? Then the PS3 doesn't seem like such a sweet deal, does it? 3. All of them have simple interfaces, none more so than Wii 4. What about the new 120Gb 360, and also what does this have to do with gaming? 5. Wii can do that with DS 6. all of them have a wireless controller 7. Wii has a better web browser 8. Wii will have free online as well, and XBL pwns them both anyways 9. That has nothing to do with gaming 10. "Formates" is not a word.

11. Wii has online in japan, check pokemon battle revolution.

12. they are constantly realeaing new FUN features, like everybody votes:) for the wii

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 204 Posts

[QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

PS3 isn't the best system now, and how things have changed since last gen it looks like it won't be, by the way Heavenly sword looks pretty good but they should change the name it's kinda lame...

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
gigabrowser12

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

But it's true, I don't have to go out and re-buy all my movies like PS3 owners do, I buy what I want when I want and have time to save the money up.

NB: your DVD collection will work fine on the system as it also supports DVDs. It's a myth that consumers will have to buy their collection again because of PS3. If they were to buy it again, it'll more likely be because they've moved on to HDTVs and DVD isn't the most appropriate format for the display.

So, I buy Blu-ray and have to watch movies that don't look any better on the PS3. Why don't I just buy a 360 for $200 cheaper and watch my DVD's on a DVD player. See what I'm saying, you will have to rebuy all your movies in a new format to get the higher resolution.

You keep using the word "have" as if buying PS3 immediatelly implys you need to invest in Blu-ray content. You invest in the content IF YOU WANT TO. And you'll only do that if you have a HD display which you will eventually whether you have a 360 or PS3, because that's how you'll make the most of the graphical fidelity of the systems.

So if you don't buy anything, thats a waste of a player no? The wii looks fine, it's not HD.

I think you're missing the point bought PS3 and 360 have been designed to make the most of a HD set up. The difference is PS3 encapsulates everything that implys, where as Microsoft have focused solely on gaming. There's nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that because Sony have a different market agenda than Microsoft it is in someway wrong and scepticle is just ignorant.

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"]Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...gigabrowser12

DVD wasnt going anywhere.

Stop buying into sony's crap and admit it. If they didnt want to force blueray on the consumers, we wouldnt be having this discussion. DVD was doing just fine.

edit: and more waiting games ay? typical cow defense.

I think you're overlooking the small issue of HD displays...

What if you don't have an HD T.V. you get a blue ray player you didn't even want.

If you have a 360 or PS3 you'll want one eventually. How else are you going to show of those fantastic graphics???

WHAT IF YOU DON"T WANT THEM, HD T.V. S ARE OVEREXPOSED to coulorful, it's painful.

:) Then enjoy your 360 with SD set up.

17 years ago

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#71 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

But it's true, I don't have to go out and re-buy all my movies like PS3 owners do, I buy what I want when I want and have time to save the money up.

NB: your DVD collection will work fine on the system as it also supports DVDs. It's a myth that consumers will have to buy their collection again because of PS3. If they were to buy it again, it'll more likely be because they've moved on to HDTVs and DVD isn't the most appropriate format for the display.

So, I buy Blu-ray and have to watch movies that don't look any better on the PS3. Why don't I just buy a 360 for $200 cheaper and watch my DVD's on a DVD player. See what I'm saying, you will have to rebuy all your movies in a new format to get the higher resolution.

You keep using the word "have" as if buying PS3 immediatelly implys you need to invest in Blu-ray content. You invest in the content IF YOU WANT TO. And you'll only do that if you have a HD display which you will eventually whether you have a 360 or PS3, because that's how you'll make the most of the graphical fidelity of the systems.

So if you don't buy anything, thats a waste of a player no? The wii looks fine, it's not HD.

I think you're missing the point bought PS3 and 360 have been designed to make the most of a HD set up. The difference is PS3 encapsulates everything that implys, where as Microsoft have focused solely on gaming. There's nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that because Sony have a different market agenda than Microsoft it is in someway wrong and scepticle is just ignorant.

And the P$3 has basicly the same games, but with VERY pretty graphics.

17 years ago

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#72 SapSacPrime

Member since 2004 • 8925 Posts

[QUOTE="fixer293"]
Yet it is being outsold by 360 and Wii.
/thread
deadmeat59

so what sales dont make the system is that ur only come back?

Im sure you used that argument all of last gen aswell then? Allow me to dust off the old PS2 defence argument higher sales = better 3rd party support = more games... sound familiar??

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 204 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

But it's true, I don't have to go out and re-buy all my movies like PS3 owners do, I buy what I want when I want and have time to save the money up.

NB: your DVD collection will work fine on the system as it also supports DVDs. It's a myth that consumers will have to buy their collection again because of PS3. If they were to buy it again, it'll more likely be because they've moved on to HDTVs and DVD isn't the most appropriate format for the display.

So, I buy Blu-ray and have to watch movies that don't look any better on the PS3. Why don't I just buy a 360 for $200 cheaper and watch my DVD's on a DVD player. See what I'm saying, you will have to rebuy all your movies in a new format to get the higher resolution.

You keep using the word "have" as if buying PS3 immediatelly implys you need to invest in Blu-ray content. You invest in the content IF YOU WANT TO. And you'll only do that if you have a HD display which you will eventually whether you have a 360 or PS3, because that's how you'll make the most of the graphical fidelity of the systems.

So if you don't buy anything, thats a waste of a player no? The wii looks fine, it's not HD.

I think you're missing the point bought PS3 and 360 have been designed to make the most of a HD set up. The difference is PS3 encapsulates everything that implys, where as Microsoft have focused solely on gaming. There's nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that because Sony have a different market agenda than Microsoft it is in someway wrong and scepticle is just ignorant.

But we only care about games here...

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
edd721

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

PS3 isn't the best system now, and how things have changed since last gen it looks like it won't be, by the way Heavenly sword looks pretty good but they should change the name it's kinda lame...

There's a long way to go yet, lets not get carried away with predictions...

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
edd721

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

But it's true, I don't have to go out and re-buy all my movies like PS3 owners do, I buy what I want when I want and have time to save the money up.

NB: your DVD collection will work fine on the system as it also supports DVDs. It's a myth that consumers will have to buy their collection again because of PS3. If they were to buy it again, it'll more likely be because they've moved on to HDTVs and DVD isn't the most appropriate format for the display.

So, I buy Blu-ray and have to watch movies that don't look any better on the PS3. Why don't I just buy a 360 for $200 cheaper and watch my DVD's on a DVD player. See what I'm saying, you will have to rebuy all your movies in a new format to get the higher resolution.

You keep using the word "have" as if buying PS3 immediatelly implys you need to invest in Blu-ray content. You invest in the content IF YOU WANT TO. And you'll only do that if you have a HD display which you will eventually whether you have a 360 or PS3, because that's how you'll make the most of the graphical fidelity of the systems.

So if you don't buy anything, thats a waste of a player no? The wii looks fine, it's not HD.

I think you're missing the point bought PS3 and 360 have been designed to make the most of a HD set up. The difference is PS3 encapsulates everything that implys, where as Microsoft have focused solely on gaming. There's nothing wrong with that, but to suggest that because Sony have a different market agenda than Microsoft it is in someway wrong and scepticle is just ignorant.

But we only care about games here...

Which implys that your views are so limited and narrow that you can't look beyond them...

17 years ago

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#76 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="edd721"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

PS3 isn't the best system now, and how things have changed since last gen it looks like it won't be, by the way Heavenly sword looks pretty good but they should change the name it's kinda lame...

There's a long way to go yet, lets not get carried away with predictions...

Some games are like heavenly sword exept not as pretty graphics, check out prince of persia rival swords, try the wii version.

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="edd721"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
gigabrowser12

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

PS3 isn't the best system now, and how things have changed since last gen it looks like it won't be, by the way Heavenly sword looks pretty good but they should change the name it's kinda lame...

There's a long way to go yet, lets not get carried away with predictions...

Some games are like heavenly sword exept not as pretty graphics, check out prince of persia rival swords, try the wii version.

The only games I have for my Wii at the moment are Zelda:TP and Wii Sports. My spending is now on a limit as I prepare for the EU PS3 launch. After that I'm mostly interested in Metroid and Mario.

17 years ago

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Member since 2005 • 1706 Posts

Yeah to bad it doesnt have the best games so.... FISSION MAILED

17 years ago

1647

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#79 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="edd721"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
Rashpal

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

PS3 isn't the best system now, and how things have changed since last gen it looks like it won't be, by the way Heavenly sword looks pretty good but they should change the name it's kinda lame...

There's a long way to go yet, lets not get carried away with predictions...

Some games are like heavenly sword exept not as pretty graphics, check out prince of persia rival swords, try the wii version.

The only games I have for my Wii at the moment are Zelda:TP and Wii Sports. My spending is now on a limit as I prepare for the EU PS3 launch. After that I'm mostly interested in Metroid and Mario.

It hasen't been realesd there yet? Wow

17 years ago

1647

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#80 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="edd721"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
gigabrowser12

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

Because in a few years time when blu-ray succeeds DVDs as the HD format of choice for HD displays, you'll want one. But of course the format is also there for games...

The "wait" argument is getting old.

Could argument the "forced" argument is getting old and that doesn't stop you from using it...

except the "force" arguement is dealing with the here and now, and the increased price of the ps3 due to the blue ray. Your arguement has to do with predictions of the future :roll:

consider yourself owned.

Please... I'd be owned if you'd understood the argument. At this moment in time (i.e. "the here and now") you're not even on the same page.

PS3 isn't the best system now, and how things have changed since last gen it looks like it won't be, by the way Heavenly sword looks pretty good but they should change the name it's kinda lame...

There's a long way to go yet, lets not get carried away with predictions...

Some games are like heavenly sword exept not as pretty graphics, check out prince of persia rival swords, try the wii version.

The only games I have for my Wii at the moment are Zelda:TP and Wii Sports. My spending is now on a limit as I prepare for the EU PS3 launch. After that I'm mostly interested in Metroid and Mario.

It hasen't been realesd there yet? Wow

Wow this is a really squished mouintaion.

17 years ago

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#81 lukemorgan21

Member since 2006 • 1813 Posts

[QUOTE="Rashpal"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
That and
XBL>PSN
freePSn= bare bones XBL
360=no forced format
360=has games at the moment
Wii=Innovative controller
360 and Wii=have rumble
360 and Wii=cheaper
360=new IP's
and on ,and on......
shadow_lord_11

The force format argument always makes me laugh. Care to put in some of your own opinions other than M$ propaganda?

ok heres mine:

my dvd player owns, i have dozens of dvd's and see no need for change.

why throw in a blue ray player that raises the price of an otherwise quite comsumer friendly console by 200 dollars simply for the sake of pushing your own media?

sony blows.

good man...good man.

17 years ago

3781

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Member since 2004 • 3781 Posts

It hasen't been realesd there yet? Wowgigabrowser12

I know. The up side of course is that we get a far better launch line than you guys and we didn't have to wait as long as we've had to in the past.

17 years ago

super_mario_128

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#83 super_mario_128

Member since 2006 • 23884 Posts

[QUOTE="shadow_lord_11"][QUOTE="deadmeat59"]first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games #1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wii #2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player # 3 easy to use interface #4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360 #5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways #6 wireles controller #7 u can look at web pages #8 free online #9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360 #10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.

then whats the point of a "gaming" console if your not talking about games?

lmfao

Wow a cow owning a cow :o Nice :lol:

17 years ago

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#84 highlander0659

Member since 2003 • 1102 Posts

Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

17 years ago

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#85 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

17 years ago

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#86 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

17 years ago

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#87 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Well this guy did prove that p$3 has SOME dedicated fanboys.

17 years ago

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#88 highlander0659

Member since 2003 • 1102 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

17 years ago

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#89 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

17 years ago

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#90 deactivated-57af49c27f4e8

Member since 2005 • 14149 Posts

obviously those little things aren't what concern the consumers. the ps3 is currently failing and i don't see what can save it in the near future.

17 years ago

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#91 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

Oh yeah you know that is just hardwrae, if this was all about hardware, wii would be pwnd, but wii has the controller, also I don't need a high end pc or anything.

17 years ago

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#92 highlander0659

Member since 2003 • 1102 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

It'll be seveal year before the Cell is outdone. Even still the think it'll be outdone by is the next Cell version.

17 years ago

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#93 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

obviously those little things aren't what concern the consumers. the ps3 is currently failing and i don't see what can save it in the near future.paullywog

One of the many smart people.

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Member since 2006 • 192 Posts

I own a 360, not a Wii, so can only comment for the 360....

first off let me say its the best system for what you get with it i am not talking about games

#1 great hard ware more powerful then 360 and wiideadmeat59

[ Yes I guess the hardware is superior.... but if it is unfriendly to program for... then there isnt really much point is there.?... as developers struggle to get the true potential out of it ]

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]
#2 blu ray for 600$ is a great deal if you got HD one of the main reason i got ps3 was cus it is a HD movie player

[ I think its great that you really wanted a HD movie player and you got it for 600$ ... but unlike 90% of us here all we want is a GAMES MACHINE and really couldn't give a damn about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD at all! - At least in this respect the 360 HD-DVD is an optional accessory so gamers are not 'FORCED' to have a NEW FORMAT! ]

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]
# 3 easy to use interface

I guess so, was expecting a little more inspriation then a PSP steal... but the 360 also has a very friendly 'colourful' interface wouldn't you agree? ... PS3 cant really take the #1 spot all by itself here can it?
[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]
#4 you can put things from you pc to ps3 with more space then 360

[ PS3 does come with a good amount of space (60Gb) at a cost though... hopefully 360 will release a new HDD soon?... but to be fair the 360 does have good streaming capabilities also meaning you wouldn't 'need' to transfer videos and music directly to the HDD all the time. ]

#5 you can use psp with it in a few cool ways
deadmeat59

[ Well my psp has been laying is dust for months due to a rubbish lineup of games so at least that could be used for something...]

#6 wireles controller
deadmeat59

[ The best because it has a wireless controller?? .... errr... HELLO??? XBOX 360 has WIRELESS CONTROLLERS! ..... ]

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]
#7 u can look at web pages

I know this has been said a thousand times, and I will repeat it only because it is soooooo true .... I use my 'computer' to use the internet to view web pages....

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]
#8 free online

ditto, I guess the free online is a bonus... absolutley no match for Xbox Live at all.... but then again it is free so they wouldn't be able to fund its content unlike xbox live... just a shame they don't supply you with a cheap headset... not everyone has a bluetooth headset!

#9 it does not make much sound at all unlike 360
deadmeat59

ditto - yet to 'hear' the ps3. but I agree the 360 does make a racket

[QUOTE="deadmeat59"]
#10 it can play so many disc formates now these are just a few reason why the ps3 system is great. yes it does not have many games but it is getting a few big games this year.

Overall, nearly all your arguments for why the PS3 is sooo great are totally flawed ... there are some true points - but not many at all..

you start off the topic by saying that your not comparing the PS3 against the game library... but a fundamental law that has always applied to the gaming world is " THE GAMES MAKE THE SYSTEM " - this is one law that stays intact to this day and at the moment yeah the 360 is leading...and DELIVERING ..... sony has nothing to show, I will wait patiently as we all have for about a year... but as far as I am concerend the 360 is here, and you know it too.

I suggest you look more into the 360 because to say that the PS3 is the best because it has WIRELESS CONTROLLERS is just unforgivable ... clearly shows you know nothing about next gen systems...

17 years ago

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#95 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

It'll be seveal year before the Cell is outdone. Even still the think it'll be outdone by is the next Cell version.

Did you read some of gamespots coverage, they said, that the cell reached a new level, but the pc, just beat them, in graphics.

17 years ago

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#96 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

It'll be seveal year before the Cell is outdone. Even still the think it'll be outdone by is the next Cell version.

Did you read some of gamespots coverage, they said, that the cell reached a new level, but the pc, just beat them, in graphics.

This is one LONG page, there are more people who like 360+wii, so P$3 loses.

17 years ago

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#97 highlander0659

Member since 2003 • 1102 Posts

[QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

It'll be seveal year before the Cell is outdone. Even still the think it'll be outdone by is the next Cell version.

Did you read some of gamespots coverage, they said, that the cell reached a new level, but the pc, just beat them, in graphics.

Actually, that's incorrect. The Cell is the newest hardware on the market. Devos don't really know how to use it yet. It's been confirmed that the most advanced PC engines are starting to become implemented on the Cell. Such as the Crytek engine and etc. Right now only 5% of the Cell's full power has been tapped.

17 years ago

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#98 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="gigabrowser12"][QUOTE="highlander0659"]Here's the the PS3 is the best. In general processing the PS3's CELL murders all PC processors..............if you have read IBM's official documentation............it clearly said that all SPEs could be tweaked to run general purpose applications when necessary. the PPE is general core and as sated by CRYTEK is much more efficient and powerful compared to both 360's XENON and dual core pc processors. powerpc 6 architecture is around 35% more powerful than power5......how do you expect it to outgun CELL.... Furthermore, the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com the itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs. the core 2 duo extreme is 20-40% more powerful than fx62................it is not even a match for CELL. for the benchmarks go to www.anandtech.com The itanium was beaten by CELL by a minimum margin of 10:1 in all server based applications it might take years for both intel and AMD to build something as powerful as the CELL wait we might have the priviledge to see CELL 2 if CELL becomes successful..........since the architecture is already unveiled we might be seeing a much refined CELL 2 with 100 general cores SPEs THE MOST ADVANCED CPU FOR YEARS TO COME IS THE CELL. NOTHING WILL TOUCH IT FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS BESIDES THE CELL2 OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3's PROCESSOR IS THE CELL PROCESSOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE PS3 IS BETTER THAN YOUR COMPUTER AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The 360 has very limited media features also. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -The PS3 is the smartest choice. Developers say.... "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3, 500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html You'd have to spend $3, 500 in order to get something that equals the PS3. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. This equates to better physics and all AC fans want that. It out-performs the 360 severely in this area... PhysX is on the 360. In fact, AGEIA tried very hard to make a statement this summer that the 360 was capable of doing physics. Earlier, an AGEIA scientist said that the PS3 was doing very well but that the 360 wasn't as good as the PS3. This was also right after Microsoft sent specs to ign and were making the claim that the 360 was just as powerful as the PS3. A few weeks later, AGEIA made a rebuttal and said that the scientists was speaking only theoretically and that the 360 wasn't performing as well "under certain conditions".. What those conditions were at the time has never been clarified, mainly due to the fact that it could be more damaging to a prospective customer (Microsoft) if the word got out that the 360 (set to launch in 2005) wasn't as capable as a machine that already "stole the show" at E3. Now, AGEIA must not really care about pleasing MS so much, or they know that we know the writing is on the wall and are more forthcoming about the PS3s abilities when compared to the 360. AGEIA isn't BSing anyone, they have nothing to gain by BSing people. Their bread and butter is in PC gaming and the console war has very little to do with their bottom line, ESPECIALLY since both systems will have software utilizing their DevTools. You know why the 360 didn't do as good under those conditions???? Because it's inferior to the PS3!!!!!! You Lemmings sure are too ignorant for words. When you add the system bandwidth, memory bandwidth, SPE local storage cycles being so incredibly low per miss, the highly parallized structure of Cell itself, the RSX's shader capabilities, Cells shader capabilities and rendering capabilities, Blu-Ray and the standard HDD .... well .... lemme just put it this way. The games showcased for the PS3 right now probably aren't even really using 5% of the systems resources or potential. Whilst the 360 uses over a third of its power. As time goes on the PS3's superiority will become more and more apparent. Furthermore, Resistance and Motorstorm look far better graphically than this. The PS3 is just a better console. 1). The cell uses pure vector processors which are alot more efficient than the 360s general purpose G5 derivatives, so they can do more at a lower clock. 2). There are 8 of them(one reserved). 3). Each SPE has its own dedicated pool of memory instead of cache. There is NO system memory. Which means that there is also no lag time between the processor and memory, speeding up the whole system. Using dedicated ram instead of cache also helps to make the processor run closer to its 'paper' speeds by getting rid of inefficiencies inherent in cache. 4). It has INSANE system bandwidth. This means that it can interact with the other parts with less lag time and more information can be transmitted between them. 5). As a vector processor it can also render graphics. Meaning it can help the gpu do its job if it has some free time. 6). Blu-ray can hold more data and transfer that data faster than dvd and hd dvd. They are also researching multi layer discs that currently hold 200GB. 7). 1080p, is just damn sexy. 1920x1080 without interlacing. kinda puts the 360s 1080i in the shade. For those that dont know 1080i takes about as much horsepower as about 540p and doesnt look anywhere near as good. -That's seven reasons why the PS3 is technically superior. Furthermore, the PS3's online features have more promise to me. The PS3 will have the capability of being a DVR, includes a download service similar to iTunes from which you can download movies, music, etc, the PS3 will serve as a Location Free Player for the Playstation Portable, the PSP will be able to control the Playstation 3's DVR functions as well as send files to and from the PS3, and firmware updates will add new functionality. The truth is that the 360 has very limited media features. You can stream music and pictures from a PC or an MP3 player but you can only get music on the hard drive by ripping it from real CD's. You can also only look at pictures streamed from PC's. And video playback is limited to WMV format and requires streaming from a Media Center PC. With Linux, the PS3 will have basically unlimited media features and won't require a Media Center PC for full functionality. -Here's why the PS3's media functions are better. Oh yeah and the 360 will become even more crippled due to the fact that it doesn't support a high-def format(it's HD-DVD extension only deals with movies). As time goes on Blu-Ray will become more and more necessary for gaming. Consider that games of the current generation have to use DVD5 or DVD9 for all of their content. So roughly the storage medium is 100 times larger than the main RAM of the unit. Although they could, it's rare that a current gen title would take the option of pressing on CD for example. Next generation machines have ~512MB RAM on board, so a DVD5 or DVD9 is only 10-20 times the size of main RAM. Why is the ratio important? Many games use streaming, so a single level can require many times the amount of data needed to fill the main RAM of the console. The quality of the content in the future is only increasing, and that the filesizes will follow. Don't forget the streaming audio too. Dialog may be translated to multiple languages especially if a title is for multiple territories. Some audio may be surround sound, so that will push up the size. It's also worth considering HD video especially if it's 1080p @ 60Hz at high quality. The problem this presents is that the current DVD formats use a larger laser, allowing them to store less data in the same space a smaller laser, like the one in a Blu-ray player, can store and read. This already has become a problem. Games like Resistance are starting to emerge that take upwards of 20GB. Don't forget..... Also, you can use any serial SATA HDD for the PS3 which will save you money. Furthemore, the PS3 supports homebrew which could possibly allow us to emulate 360 games on the PS3 anyways. The PS3 is clearly the best chioce. Theres not a personal computer on the planet that can touch Cell in any area. Be it memory management, parallel computing, downright speed, whatever. Even the new, highly generic and underwhelming multi-core Intel and AMD processors pale in comparison to Cells capabilities. Now that the final devkits are out and Cell / RSX are working through the incredibly fast and efficient FlexIO from Rambus those PC's they are using, no matter what they are, aren't going to be able to duplicate what a PS3 will be capable of. This is why I've been saying for awhile that the PS3 will be able to keep pace with the PC's for years to come without problem. Its just superior in speed, precision, cycle losses being minimized, mathematic processing, physics, geometry, shaders, whatever. Maybe in 4 or 5 years a PC will exist that will make the PS3 port have to be downgraded in a way, but until then its highly doubtful. The untold legend game got a face lift and the Producer Andy Sites had this to say about the ps3 in a interview with ign "We finally reached a point where are PC's are no longer faster than our ps3.. the ps3 is actually trouncing our 3,500 dollar PC's in our offices." link: http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/vids_1.html Just shows you the power of the ps3. I think we will be hearing a lot more developers talking about the ps3 and its powers very soon.. Oh wait, developers already have.. lol... http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379 Hopefully, this is the first time the article has been posted. Apparently, the PS3 will have close to ten times the bandwidth of a typical PC due to Flex I/O. If after reading this article, you think there is anything you can get for less than a grand that comes even close to being as good a gaming machine, then you are nuts. A little about the GPU... Allow for me to paint you another picture. Unified shader technology IS the direction that PC graphics are going to go. In fact, Nvidia have a unified shader GPU in the works called the G80. The thing that always struck me as kind of odd about the Xbox 360 is that it has a very early version of the architecture in it and it seems to be rather under powered to run games like Oblivion. Gamespot ran a comparison on Oblivion on a low end, mid-grade, and high-end PC to see how the 360 verison matches up. The 7800 and 7900 were both more impressive than the 360 and that was at the same resolution, which we all know PCs can have higher resolutions than x720. So, the good news for us is that the GPU going in the PS3 WILL be more powerful than the Xbox 360.. Also, 1080p is not going to be a big stretch of the imagination since a 7900 can run INSANE resolutions on PC that no TV in the next three or four years is going to support. Make no mistake about it, though.. Unified shader technology is the wave of the future because it CAN do things traditional cards cannot and when the technology actually matures, you will see some amazing graphics on PC games. The good news for the PS4 is that by the time it launches, there will be multi-core Cell processors that Sony may be very wise in putting in the PS4. Imagine what the clock rate on a Cell can be five or six or even seven years down the road? On top of that, Nvidia will be well into the unified shader architecture and be able to deliver on what is only dreams and random musings from the Xbox crowd about what the GPU actually does. With high throughput and full programmability, unified GPUs matched with Cell's processing capabilities could very well be the "perfect console". IMHO Well... If you were to look ay both of the console's specs you'd clearly see that the PS3 is far superior to the 360 in every way. Also, what I've written above is even more proof. Don't forget that the the rsx has fully programmable shaders as well, in fact it has even more power than the xenos in that area. the only thing it doesn't have is unified shader architecture, which allows it to use its resources better, but does not make it better than the rsx since it has less raw power overall. with USA, the xenos can choose to use 0/48 16/32 32/16 or 48/0 pipelines for vertices/pixels. the rsx is always using 8/24; however those 24 pixel pipelines have 2 ALU and are just as good as 48 pixel pipelines in the xenos; on top of those the 8 vertex pipelines are able to push 1 billion vertices/second while the 48 pipelines of the xenos can only push max 500 million vertices/second, which means those 8 vertex pip.. are equivalent as 96 in the xenos. so in xenos space, the rsx got 96/48 constant vs 0/48 or 16/32 or 32/16 or 48/0 summary: - general processors (unified shaders arch) are less efficient than specialized ones - the xenos has always less computational power, in every scenario hopefully the xenos got some advantages like the EDRAM, free AA, 10bit HDR etc. which might make the difference sometimes, and when it doesn't, then the rsx power does the difference.

And in one year pc will own all.

What about the quad core procecers.

Those qud cores still don't compare to the highly powerful itanium server processors which the Cell is still more powerful than. So, that's your answer to that.

Ok... wait one year for pcs geniouses.

It'll be seveal year before the Cell is outdone. Even still the think it'll be outdone by is the next Cell version.

Did you read some of gamespots coverage, they said, that the cell reached a new level, but the pc, just beat them, in graphics.

Actually, that's incorrect. The Cell is the newest hardware on the market. Devos don't really know how to use it yet. It's been confirmed that the most advanced PC engines are starting to become implemented on the Cell. Such as the Crytek engine and etc. Right now only 5% of the Cell's full power has been tapped.

5 % that's bogus, you are dead!!

17 years ago

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Member since 2006 • 3665 Posts

[QUOTE="o0George0o"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
Yet it is being outsold by 360 and Wii.
/thread
fixer293

its because people are cheap and i will probly get a ps3 if more games are made! i love sony and i wan them to do well...

No, It's because people know what an overhyped, overpriced system is, that being the PS3.

Overpriced yet UK pre-orders broke record pre-orders and its even more expensive over there so your point doesnt prove anything

17 years ago

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#100 gigabrowser12

Member since 2006 • 1647 Posts

[QUOTE="fixer293"][QUOTE="o0George0o"][QUOTE="fixer293"]
Yet it is being outsold by 360 and Wii.
/thread
-L-U-I-S-

its because people are cheap and i will probly get a ps3 if more games are made! i love sony and i wan them to do well...

No, It's because people know what an overhyped, overpriced system is, that being the PS3.

Overpriced yet UK pre-orders broke record pre-orders and its even more expensive over there so your point doesnt prove anything

He is saying that is over priced. 750 cnd, + tax, thats ezpensive

17 years ago

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