PS3 RPGs vs. 360 RPGs

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Ben-X

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#1 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
Heres a list to compare announced Rpgs for the 360 vs. ps3
(ill update, throw out more ideas, this is good rpgs, not just any)

PS3
- FFXlll
- White Knight Story
- FF versus 13

X360
- Mass Effect
- Bioshock
- Blue Dragon
- Lost Odessy
- Fable 2
- Two Worlds

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H4xlike

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#2 H4xlike
Member since 2006 • 8491 Posts
Biohsokc isnt a rpg, take it off.
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zeonne

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#3 zeonne
Member since 2003 • 5600 Posts
Heres a list to compare announced Rpgs for the 360 vs. ps3
(ill update, throw out more ideas, this is good rpgs, not just any)

PS3
- FFXlll
- White Knight Story

X360
- Mass Effect
- Bioshock
- Blue Dragon
- Lost Odessy
- Fable 2

Ben-X
plz...just stop while you have a chance...the 360 doesnt stand a chance when it comes to rpg's...just go back to hyping shooters like most lemmings do
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DMWhiteDragon

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#4 DMWhiteDragon
Member since 2004 • 827 Posts
Eternal Sonata
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shotgunjunkie

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#5 shotgunjunkie
Member since 2004 • 5268 Posts
Add FF Versus XIII for the PS3 and Eternal Sonata and Infinite Undiscovery for the 360.
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Blazin_Sprite

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#6 Blazin_Sprite
Member since 2006 • 917 Posts
Add Cry-on, Eternal Sonata & Infinite Undiscovery on the 360
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edward2332

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#7 edward2332
Member since 2005 • 988 Posts
I don't get it...is Oblivion not an RPG?
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foxhound_fox

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#8 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
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bri360

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#9 bri360
Member since 2005 • 2755 Posts
[QUOTE="Ben-X"]Heres a list to compare announced Rpgs for the 360 vs. ps3
(ill update, throw out more ideas, this is good rpgs, not just any)

PS3
- FFXlll
- White Knight Story

X360
- Mass Effect
- Bioshock
- Blue Dragon
- Lost Odessy
- Fable 2

zeonne
plz...just stop while you have a chance...the 360 doesnt stand a chance when it comes to rpg's...just go back to hyping shooters like most lemmings do


k, obviously you dont know waht your talking about, so far there has been way more rpg's announced for the 360. (good looking ones to).
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DaysAirlines

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#10 DaysAirlines
Member since 2006 • 9537 Posts
I think Mass Effect will be the most influential game of 2007.
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Donkey_Puncher

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#11 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
Mass Effect>>>>>>>>>Any RPG on the PS3, including *cough* FF *cough*.
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H4xlike

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#12 H4xlike
Member since 2006 • 8491 Posts
The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
foxhound_fox
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?
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Ben-X

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#13 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
Add FF Versus XIII for the PS3 and Eternal Sonata and Infinite Undiscovery for the 360.shotgunjunkie

Isnt this an action game
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Ben-X

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#14 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
i dont think cry on and infinitive discovery are good
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shotgunjunkie

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#15 shotgunjunkie
Member since 2004 • 5268 Posts
[QUOTE="shotgunjunkie"]Add FF Versus XIII for the PS3 and Eternal Sonata and Infinite Undiscovery for the 360.Ben-X

Isnt this an action game


Action RPG.
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H4xlike

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#16 H4xlike
Member since 2006 • 8491 Posts
PS3- not out 360- most of them games out in 4+ mounths; Bioshock NOT an rpg.
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Ben-X

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#17 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
Biohsokc isnt a rpg, take it off.H4xlike

ya it is. rad up on it. if you know what an rpg is youd think of it as one. have you ever played System Shock?

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Donkey_Puncher

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#18 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
H4xlike
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.
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whybuyaxbox360

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#19 whybuyaxbox360
Member since 2006 • 1774 Posts
only 2 rpgs sony has? hmmm seems kinda fishy....and then ben-X is doing it of all people....this thread does not deliver.
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zeonne

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#20 zeonne
Member since 2003 • 5600 Posts
[QUOTE="zeonne"][QUOTE="Ben-X"]Heres a list to compare announced Rpgs for the 360 vs. ps3
(ill update, throw out more ideas, this is good rpgs, not just any)

PS3
- FFXlll
- White Knight Story

X360
- Mass Effect
- Bioshock
- Blue Dragon
- Lost Odessy
- Fable 2

bri360
plz...just stop while you have a chance...the 360 doesnt stand a chance when it comes to rpg's...just go back to hyping shooters like most lemmings do


k, obviously you dont know waht your talking about, so far there has been way more rpg's announced for the 360. (good looking ones to).

more and better are to complety different things, the 360 isnt getting the best quality rpg's(outside of a few pc ports) and its certainly not going to have a better rpg series then FF after more then 10 years of history thats almost a fact
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whybuyaxbox360

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#21 whybuyaxbox360
Member since 2006 • 1774 Posts
[QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Donkey_Puncher
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:
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Donkey_Puncher

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#22 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
whybuyaxbox360
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.
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Ben-X

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#23 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
only 2 rpgs sony has? hmmm seems kinda fishy....and then ben-X is doing it of all people....this thread does not deliver.whybuyaxbox360

then show me a good one
http://www.gamespot.com/games.html?type=games&category=Role-Playing&platform=1028&mode=all&sort=views&dlx_type=all&sortdir=asc
and it cant be coming out on the 360
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Ben-X

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#24 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
[QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Donkey_Puncher
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.


JRPGs tend to be turned based action games most of the times but w/e
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Ben-X

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#25 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
[QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Donkey_Puncher
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.


what he means is you can talk to do different sides of a mission, get people to like you and do stuff for you- sell stuff, give you stuff, allow you to borrow something, etc., etc.
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Donkey_Puncher

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#26 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Ben-X
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.


JRPGs tend to be turned based action games most of the times but w/e

That has nothing to do with what I said. Games such as Mass Effect let you custimize and control the story and flow of the game based on decision making, hence the name ROLEPLAYING. JRPG's usually let you take the role of someone else and offer very few things in the world of custimization and control over the entire game.
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Ben-X

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#27 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
[QUOTE="Ben-X"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Donkey_Puncher
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.


JRPGs tend to be turned based action games most of the times but w/e

That has nothing to do with what I said. Games such as Mass Effect let you custimize and control the story and flow of the game based on decision making, hence the name ROLEPLAYING. JRPG's usually let you take the role of someone else and offer very few things in the world of custimization and control over the entire game.


exactly,  hence the name turn based action game.
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whybuyaxbox360

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#28 whybuyaxbox360
Member since 2006 • 1774 Posts
[QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Donkey_Puncher
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.

thats fair enogh...but here let me show you a REAL NEXT GEN RPG.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734330p1.html

"a glimpse at next-generation role-playing"

have fun talking :lol: :P
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H4xlike

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#29 H4xlike
Member since 2006 • 8491 Posts
Theres many more rpgs, bug rpgs, i saw in this wikipedia list, like atleast 2 more big ones, with 3 little unknown A ones.
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whybuyaxbox360

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#30 whybuyaxbox360
Member since 2006 • 1774 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Ben-X"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
Ben-X
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.


JRPGs tend to be turned based action games most of the times but w/e

That has nothing to do with what I said. Games such as Mass Effect let you custimize and control the story and flow of the game based on decision making, hence the name ROLEPLAYING. JRPG's usually let you take the role of someone else and offer very few things in the world of custimization and control over the entire game.


exactly,  hence the name turn based action game.

i dont ususally agree with ben,but here he is right.
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Donkey_Puncher

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#31 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
thats fair enogh...but here let me show you a REAL NEXT GEN RPG.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734330p1.html

"a glimpse at next-generation role-playing"

have fun talking :lol: :Pwhybuyaxbox360
Too each his own, but Mass Effect is going to be the biggest RPG of next year and possibly ever (in terms of Custimization and dialogue branching). We'll see how White Knight holds up to a the REAL king of next gen RPG's.
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Ben-X

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#33 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
[QUOTE="Ben-X"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Ben-X"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
whybuyaxbox360
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.


JRPGs tend to be turned based action games most of the times but w/e

That has nothing to do with what I said. Games such as Mass Effect let you custimize and control the story and flow of the game based on decision making, hence the name ROLEPLAYING. JRPG's usually let you take the role of someone else and offer very few things in the world of custimization and control over the entire game.


exactly, hence the name turn based action game.

i dont ususally agree with ben,but here he is right.


thank you (i like your name)
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Ben-X

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#34 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
This one, also level 5 is supposedly making Dark Cloud 3.
Also FF7 remake,
but its only a tech demo...but that is to be expected from a console that isnt out yet.
white_sox

SOmeone please back up Shin Ki Jutsi or whatever, never heard of it, sounds like a average rpg. Dark Cloud 3 and FF7 remake are rumored, if i added those i should add KOTOR 3, Jade Empire 2, etc.
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Cycloptis

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#35 Cycloptis
Member since 2004 • 18249 Posts
The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
foxhound_fox
Yes, they do indeed lower the bar.
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Donkey_Puncher

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#36 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
exactly  hence the name turn based action game.
Ben-X
That's just a game play mechanic nothing more. If they made it real time it wouldn't change the fact that it's still highly uncustimizable when compared to it's western counterparts.
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Ben-X

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#37 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
[QUOTE="Ben-X"]exactly hence the name turn based action game.
Donkey_Puncher
That's just a game play mechanic nothing more. If they made it real time it wouldn't change the fact that it's still highly uncustimizable when compared to it's western counterparts.


what are you saying? you seem to be agreeing with me. its seems like im saying 2+2 = 4 and your saying.  no, thats wrong 2+2= 4
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whybuyaxbox360

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#39 whybuyaxbox360
Member since 2006 • 1774 Posts
[QUOTE="white_sox"]This one, also level 5 is supposedly making Dark Cloud 3.
Also FF7 remake,
but its only a tech demo...but that is to be expected from a console that isnt out yet.
Ben-X

SOmeone please back up Shin Ki Jutsi or whatever, never heard of it, sounds like a average rpg. Dark Cloud 3 and FF7 remake are rumored, if i added those i should add KOTOR 3, Jade Empire 2, etc.

shin ki is a huge popular rpg in JAPAN,i myself have only herd of it,never played it,i hear its good.....dark cloud is rumored,and EGM confirmed ff7 is in developmetn,but EGM=rumor mag...i got the article and everything
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Ben-X

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#40 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
but remember, JRPGs are still fun. WRPGs just vary more. it seems to me that JRPGs can only be so bad and so good but WRPGs can vary the extremes
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deactivated-57af49c27f4e8

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#41 deactivated-57af49c27f4e8
Member since 2005 • 14149 Posts
Make a BOTH section, put oblivion.
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Donkey_Puncher

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#42 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Ben-X"]exactly hence the name turn based action game.
Ben-X
That's just a game play mechanic nothing more. If they made it real time it wouldn't change the fact that it's still highly uncustimizable when compared to it's western counterparts.


what are you saying? you seem to be agreeing with me. its seems like im saying 2+2 = 4 and your saying.  no, thats wrong 2+2= 4

Take KOTOR for example, it's gameplay was turnbased/realtime but it was still highly custimizable and the dialogue was extensive meaning outcomes for the story and missions were varied. Games like FF let don't let you stray from the path as because you're basically playing through their version of the story, not your own. Get it? It's about decision making and completing the game the way YOU want to, JRPG's are much farther behind in this concept.
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shotgunjunkie

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#43 shotgunjunkie
Member since 2004 • 5268 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="whybuyaxbox360"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="H4xlike"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
whybuyaxbox360
Give me an example of how there redefining the rpg?

The most complex use of dialogue in a game EVER. Branching of the dialogue will effect the outcome of the game, hence MASS EFFECT. It's the most massive RPG in sheer scope as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol THE INNOVATION :lol: :lol:

Lol. I'm sorry, I though RPG were supposed to be about ROLE PLAYING, and decision making. But you wouldn't know about that playing JRPG's though.

thats fair enogh...but here let me show you a REAL NEXT GEN RPG.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/734/734330p1.html

"a glimpse at next-generation role-playing"

have fun talking :lol: :P


Because the Xbox 360 dosen't have any "real next gen rpg's."

Every time I see it, Mass Effect comes more and more into focus. It's a cumulative force of RPG knowledge, honed, sculpted and built upon next-generation technology. And it's just itching to usher in this next generation in a totally new way.

Mass Effect is easily one of the best-looking and most promising games of X06. In fact, it's easy to say now that Mass Effect is one of the most impressive looking next-gen games on the planet. It's that far ahead of everything else.

This game is large and as deep as it is ambitious, folks. It's one of Microsoft's big guns for a reason.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/736/736346p1.html



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Adrian_Cloud

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#44 Adrian_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 7169 Posts
Heres a list to compare announced Rpgs for the 360 vs. ps3
(ill update, throw out more ideas, this is good rpgs, not just any)

PS3
- FFXlll
- White Knight Story
- FF versus 13

X360
- Mass Effect
- Bioshock
- Blue Dragon
- Lost Odessy
- Fable 2
- Two Worlds

Ben-X
Its not about quantity its about Quality. I rather play 3 amazing RPG experiences, than 6 average ones (i'm not saying those ones particularly).
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aerziel

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#45 aerziel
Member since 2004 • 1006 Posts

xbox 360 rpg

cry on

mass effect

culdcept saga

eternal sonata

fable 2

blue dragon

infinite undiscovery

lost odyssey

ps3

final fantasy XIII

final fantasy vs XIII

kingdom hearts 3

white knight story

makai wars

shin megami tensei

cavia shinten

makai VI

monster carnival

*just a note not all of the rpg i couldnt put in because of not having a title and too many to list.

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chaos1361

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#46 chaos1361
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts
I think Mass Effect will be the most influential game of 2007.DaysAirlines
I think it will be the most influential game till at least the end of 2008.
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Ben-X

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#47 Ben-X
Member since 2003 • 6443 Posts
[QUOTE="Ben-X"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Ben-X"]exactly hence the name turn based action game.
Donkey_Puncher
That's just a game play mechanic nothing more. If they made it real time it wouldn't change the fact that it's still highly uncustimizable when compared to it's western counterparts.


what are you saying? you seem to be agreeing with me. its seems like im saying 2+2 = 4 and your saying. no, thats wrong 2+2= 4

Take KOTOR for example, it's gameplay was turnbased/realtime but it was still highly custimizable and the dialogue was extensive meaning outcomes for the story and missions were varied. Games like FF let don't let you stray from the path as because you're basically playing through their version of the story, not your own. Get it? It's about decision making and completing the game the way YOU want to, JRPG's are much farther behind in this concept.


still, we're saying the same thing and have been
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chaos1361

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#48 chaos1361
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts
xbox 360 rpg cry on mass effect culdcept saga eternal sonata fable 2 blue dragon infinite undiscovery lost odyssey ps3 final fantasy XIII final fantasy vs XIII kingdom hearts 3 white knight story makai wars shin megami tensei cavia shinten makai VI monster carnival *just a note not all of the rpg i couldnt put in because of not having a title and too many to list.aerziel
KH3 might be on the 360, and if any of those are japanese only please don't post them.
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Donkey_Puncher

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#49 Donkey_Puncher
Member since 2005 • 5083 Posts
[QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Ben-X"][QUOTE="Donkey_Puncher"][QUOTE="Ben-X"]exactly hence the name turn based action game.
Ben-X
That's just a game play mechanic nothing more. If they made it real time it wouldn't change the fact that it's still highly uncustimizable when compared to it's western counterparts.


what are you saying? you seem to be agreeing with me. its seems like im saying 2+2 = 4 and your saying. no, thats wrong 2+2= 4

Take KOTOR for example, it's gameplay was turnbased/realtime but it was still highly custimizable and the dialogue was extensive meaning outcomes for the story and missions were varied. Games like FF let don't let you stray from the path as because you're basically playing through their version of the story, not your own. Get it? It's about decision making and completing the game the way YOU want to, JRPG's are much farther behind in this concept.


still, we're saying the same thing and have been

No, you're saying it's because of Turnbased gameplay, that's merely a mechanic. That has absolutely nothing to do about finishing missions differently or decision making affecting the story or game. Just forget I said anything.
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Paper_Knife

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#50 Paper_Knife
Member since 2006 • 1592 Posts

The 360 has more original ideas while the PS3 has more redone ideas.

Mass Effect being a huge example. Bioware, once again resetting the RPG standards.
foxhound_fox

speaking of redone ideas, when does halo3 come out.