PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame

[QUOTE="themajormayor"]

[QUOTE="BPoole96"] Arcade type games do count of the PC though. Like recently Dear Esther received an 8 and counts as a AAE for the PC library and it's a $10 game (a very good one at that). Journey will be sub sectioned into the irrelevant PSN section and will basically not count as a quality game for the PS3. Same goes for 360/Wii digital games. This would just be eliminating a double standard between platformsBPoole96

Agreed. It's stupid that they're not counted.

Other way around.

DD-only budget PC games shouldn't be counted.

Lower standards are applied to DD-only budget titles.

Other way around.

DD-only budget PC games shouldn't be counted.

Lower standards are applied to DD-only budget titles.

shinrabanshou

[QUOTE="BPoole96"][QUOTE="themajormayor"] nah

Slashless

Dammit :x

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

Other way around.

DD-only budget PC games shouldn't be counted.

Lower standards are applied to DD-only budget titles.

BPoole96

If it's budget priced and not boxed-retail - like Dear Esther - then its not counted, pretty simple. The distinction is pretty clear.

They're tracked, but tracked separately, because Journey's 9.0 as a $15 DD game isn't comparable to Uncharted 3's 9.0 as a $60 retail title.

Besides, PC would still easily win the metagame regardless.

For the sole reason that they are counted for PC. Games like The Binding of Isaac are counted and added in the PC library but games like Journey and The Dishwasher don't count for the consoles. Some downloadable games are just as good as full retail games and I don't feel they are given proper recognition on SW. DiscussBPoole96

It's true, the way PC games have been counted was flawed for a great many years...

The Ironic thing is The Binding of Isaac may be coming to PS3 for instance, and it will go in the DL PSN games section. I argued for this being fixed years ago in SW and the idea was to draw a line at the boxed sold at retail games, and for special cases look for the obvious lower budget price we see in DL games. Many in SW got upset at the notion though for obvious reasons, as it would change the tabulation.

The only solution is to count them for all or to stop counting them on PC....but the line is blurry in some cases, which is why it never happened.

There have been improvements though, at one time there was no XBLA/PSN/WiiWare section.

---------

The other issue is manytimes GS doesn't review all these multiplatform games released for various platforms, or just doesn't review retail and DL games for specific machines, which also creates issues in the metagame. Those that just use raw numbers but don't do any fact checking will be misled. Others that do know this take advantage of it and do the misleading deliberately, and troll those users that bring it up.

This was years, YEARS ago when I tried, and I'm not as invested but I will put my thoughts here for someone else if it helps.

It's true, the way PC games have been counted was flawed for a great many years...

The Ironic thing is The Binding of Isaac may be coming to PS3 for instance, and it will go in the DL PSN games section.

The only solution is to count them or to stop counting them on PC....but the line is blurry in some cases, which is why it never happened.

SolidTy

I keep track of the metagame for my own reference, and these are what I have down for the PC last year:

• Star Wars: The Old Republic - 8.0
• Shogun 2: Total War - 9.0
• The Witcher 2 - 9.0
• Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II: Retribution - 8.5
• Rift: Planes of Telara - 8.0
• Men of War: Assault Squad - 8.0
• Out of the Park Baseball 12 - 8.0
• TrackMania 2: Canyon - 8.0
• Football Manager 2012 - 8.0
• Panzer Corps - 8.0
• World of Tanks - 8.0
• Heroes of Might & Magic VI - 8.0
• The Book of Unwritten Tales - 8.0

Take away the DD-only budget games (if there are any there) and it still wins handily, the runner up being the PS3 with 7 AAE+ in 2011.

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

It's true, the way PC games have been counted was flawed for a great many years...

The Ironic thing is The Binding of Isaac may be coming to PS3 for instance, and it will go in the DL PSN games section. I argued for this being fixed years ago in SW and the idea was to draw a line at the boxed sold at retail games, and for special cases look for the obvious lower budget price we see in DL games. Many in SW got upset at the notion though for obvious reasons, as it would change the tabulation.

The only solution is to count them for all or to stop counting them on PC....but the line is blurry in some cases, which is why it never happened.

There have been improvements though, at one time there was no XBLA/PSN/WiiWare section.

---------

The other issue is manytimes GS doesn't review all these multiplatform games released for various platforms, or just doesn't review retail and DL games for specific machines, which also creates issues in the metagame. Those that just use raw numbers but don't do any fact checking will be misled. Others that do know this take advantage of it and do the misleading deliberately, and troll those users that bring it up.

This was years, YEARS ago when I tried, and I'm not as invested but I will put my thoughts here for someone else if it helps.

shinrabanshou

I keep track of the metagame for my own reference, and these are what I have down for the PC last year:

• Star Wars: The Old Republic - 8.0
• Shogun 2: Total War - 9.0
• The Witcher 2 - 9.0
• Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II: Retribution - 8.5
• Rift: Planes of Telara - 8.0
• Men of War: Assault Squad - 8.0
• Out of the Park Baseball 12 - 8.0
• TrackMania 2: Canyon - 8.0
• Football Manager 2012 - 8.0
• Panzer Corps - 8.0
• World of Tanks - 8.0
• Heroes of Might & Magic VI - 8.0
• The Book of Unwritten Tales - 8.0

Take away the DD-only budget games (if there are any there) and it still wins handily, the runner up being the PS3 with 7 AAE+ in 2011.

That is true it won't change the outcome in this case, but I used to maintain that's a poor excuse for inaccuracy. :P

If it's going to start counting, it should begin with the new generation,.

They still get tracked, just separately. Heil68

I don't get why they're not counted either.

NeonNinja

[QUOTE="SolidTy"]

It's true, the way PC games have been counted was flawed for a great many years...

The Ironic thing is The Binding of Isaac may be coming to PS3 for instance, and it will go in the DL PSN games section.

The only solution is to count them or to stop counting them on PC....but the line is blurry in some cases, which is why it never happened.

shinrabanshou

I keep track of the metagame for my own reference, and these are what I have down for the PC last year:

• Star Wars: The Old Republic - 8.0
• Shogun 2: Total War - 9.0
• The Witcher 2 - 9.0
• Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II: Retribution - 8.5
• Rift: Planes of Telara - 8.0
• Men of War: Assault Squad - 8.0
• Out of the Park Baseball 12 - 8.0
• TrackMania 2: Canyon - 8.0
• Football Manager 2012 - 8.0
• Panzer Corps - 8.0
• World of Tanks - 8.0
• Heroes of Might & Magic VI - 8.0
• The Book of Unwritten Tales - 8.0

Take away the DD-only budget games (if there are any there) and it still wins handily, the runner up being the PS3 with 7 AAE+ in 2011.

Dumbest reason ever.

Dumbest reason ever.

15strong

The reason for the latter, as has been stated numerous times now, is that a $10 or $15 shouldn't be compared to a $60 retail title - since they offer different value propositions and therefore are rated under different standards.

[QUOTE="15strong"]

Dumbest reason ever.

shinrabanshou

The reason for the latter, as has been stated numerous times now, is that a $10 or $15 shouldn't be compared to a $60 retail title - since they offer different value propositions and therefore are rated under different standards.

I agree about seperating the categories. It's the consistancy across platforms that is the problem. Also things like Hector for PC counting as exclusive even though it is released for ios. At least I think it is counted.

[QUOTE="ispeakfact"]

Uh-oh...Journey scoring a 9 here on GS has really shaken up SW.

lawlessx

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="ispeakfact"]

Uh-oh...Journey scoring a 9 here on GS has really shaken up SW.

nervmeister

[QUOTE="15strong"]

Dumbest reason ever.

shinrabanshou

The reason for the latter, as has been stated numerous times now, is that a $10 or $15 shouldn't be compared to a $60 retail title - since they offer different value propositions and therefore are rated under different standards.

Which reviewer has said they're rated under different standards?

Sure, why not? They're games, and some of them are really good.

They should remain seperate imo. And Kinect only / Move only / and peripheral required stuff should be seperated as well. The spirit of System Wars shouldn't be about Journey > Forza 3 > Sesame Street Kinect > Zelda SS ... it's absurd. I really wouldn't worry about PC's totals .... they can have them all !

They should remain seperate imo. And Kinect only / Move only / and peripheral required stuff should be seperated as well.

Nike_Air

Well if they're seperated then I guess LBP2, Forza 4, Motorstorm AP, Heavy Rain, Resistance 3, Killzone 3 wouldn't count at all because they'd be on Move/PS3 or Kinect/360.

[QUOTE="Nike_Air"]

They should remain seperate imo. And Kinect only / Move only / and peripheral required stuff should be seperated as well.

Slashless

Well if they're seperated then I guess LBP2, Forza 4, Motorstorm AP, Heavy Rain, Resistance 3, Killzone 3 wouldn't count at all because they'd be on Move/PS3 or Kinect/360.

NONE should count in main retail game section.

SolidTY is right this has been an issue for a while and not just now. I brought this issue up in another thread I made on whelm what made up the supposed 212 high quality exclusives on PC that I had heard people boast about.

When I made a thread trying to identify what PC AAA exclusives are composed of and asked users not to simply link me to the spreadsheet but actually list the games because the spread sheet was inaccurate (not only did I get flamed by hostile hermits who blindly insisted the spreadsheet was infallible) it became apparent that many MANY of the games that get counted for hermits saying "even this gen PC has more high quality titles than all consoles combined" were expansion pack and download material that all got jumbled into the same category as full original games.

Ain't that a *****.. :lol: Lems screamed at the top of their lungs last year about Dishwasher Samurai 2 and cows stated "it didn't count" because it's a DL game. Now that Journey scored AAA they all of a sudden want to "change the rules".. :lol:

1. There was never any rule that stated DL games didn't count.
2. Dishwasher Samurai 2 IS an AAAE for the 360..

Ain't that a *****.. :lol: Lems screamed at the top of their lungs last year about Dishwasher Samurai 2 and cows stated "it didn't count" because it's a DL game. Now that Journey scored AAA they all of a sudden want to "change the rules".. :lol:

1. There was never any rule that stated DL games didn't count.
2. Dishwasher Samurai 2 IS an AAAE for the 360..

OhSnapitz

what are you talking about? this thread is more about why DL games count for PC than about 1 PS3 DL game scoring well. If you hadn't noticed there are alot of "cows" who say they don't think they should count "as full retail games".

They always counted...just not as retail games. The argument is why PC in the SW spreadsheet meta game isn't held to the same requirement...try to keep up.

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"]

Ain't that a *****.. :lol: Lems screamed at the top of their lungs last year about Dishwasher Samurai 2 and cows stated "it didn't count" because it's a DL game. Now that Journey scored AAA they all of a sudden want to "change the rules".. :lol:

1. There was never any rule that stated DL games didn't count.
2. Dishwasher Samurai 2 IS an AAAE for the 360..

casharmy

what are you talking about? this thread is more about why DL games count for PC than about 1 PS3 DL game scoring well. If you hadn't noticed there are alot of "cows" who say they don't think they should count "as full retail games".

They always counted...just not as retail games. The argument is why PC in the SW spreadsheet meta game isn't held to the same requirement...try to keep up.

"PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame" :|

Ok so did you or did you not actually read the thread title and content from the OP.. For the last few weeks PC and Consolers have been butting heads more than usual. From price points to software.. And now all of sudden a thread pops up about DL games "counting".. oh and only after the journey scored well.. :| Gimme an F'n break.

when I made a thread just out of curiosity to ask users to list the AAAe PC titles as on nov 2005 (current gen) from the 200+ PC titles I have been told the PC has; which was entitled:

"Exactly how many AAA exclusvies are there for PC this gen?"

and asked people to not link the spreadsheet because it was flawed (after much argument, bit*hing and mud slinging) this is the list of games that I was given by lundy86-4 using teh spreadsheet:

PC:

1. Starcraft II
2. World in Conflict
3. World of Wacraft: The Burning Crusade?
4. Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar*
5. The Witcher 2
6. Shogun 2
7. Civ V
8. World of Warcraft: WotLK?
9. Crysis Warhead
10. Galactic Civilizations II:Twilight of the Arnor*
11. Sins of a Solar Empire
12. GTR2
13. Company of Heroes
14. Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords*

this is just from the 14 games counted as AAAe for PC, does anyone else notice something here?

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28991837/exactly-how-many-aaa-exclusvies-are-there-for-pc-this-gen?page=5

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"]

Ain't that a *****.. :lol: Lems screamed at the top of their lungs last year about Dishwasher Samurai 2 and cows stated "it didn't count" because it's a DL game. Now that Journey scored AAA they all of a sudden want to "change the rules".. :lol:

1. There was never any rule that stated DL games didn't count.
2. Dishwasher Samurai 2 IS an AAAE for the 360..

OhSnapitz

what are you talking about? this thread is more about why DL games count for PC than about 1 PS3 DL game scoring well. If you hadn't noticed there are alot of "cows" who say they don't think they should count "as full retail games".

They always counted...just not as retail games. The argument is why PC in the SW spreadsheet meta game isn't held to the same requirement...try to keep up.

"PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame" :|

Ok so did you or did you not actually read the thread title and content from the OP.. For the last few weeks PC and Consolers have been butting heads more than usual. From price points to software.. And now all of sudden a thread pops up about DL games "counting".. oh and only after the journey scored well.. :| Gimme an F'n break.

Yeah I read the op of THAT ONE SUPPOSED COW, did you read what other supposed "cows" were saying in this thread?

When loosingEnds say 360 has better graphics than PC does he speak for the entire lemming population?

and you suggesting that this was all of a sudden trying to push the idea that this is because of a PSN title scoring well...

Here, I made this thread a while ago (jan 7 2012)...I argued the validity of some of the games that get counted on PC that are not counted the same way for consoles (not just PS3)...enjoy.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28991837/exactly-how-many-aaa-exclusvies-are-there-for-pc-this-gen?page=0

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"]

Ain't that a *****.. :lol: Lems screamed at the top of their lungs last year about Dishwasher Samurai 2 and cows stated "it didn't count" because it's a DL game. Now that Journey scored AAA they all of a sudden want to "change the rules".. :lol:

1. There was never any rule that stated DL games didn't count.
2. Dishwasher Samurai 2 IS an AAAE for the 360..

OhSnapitz

what are you talking about? this thread is more about why DL games count for PC than about 1 PS3 DL game scoring well. If you hadn't noticed there are alot of "cows" who say they don't think they should count "as full retail games".

They always counted...just not as retail games. The argument is why PC in the SW spreadsheet meta game isn't held to the same requirement...try to keep up.

"PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame" :|

Ok so did you or did you not actually read the thread title and content from the OP.. For the last few weeks PC and Consolers have been butting heads more than usual. From price points to software.. And now all of sudden a thread pops up about DL games "counting".. oh and only after the journey scored well.. :| Gimme an F'n break.

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"]

[QUOTE="casharmy"]

what are you talking about? this thread is more about why DL games count for PC than about 1 PS3 DL game scoring well. If you hadn't noticed there are alot of "cows" who say they don't think they should count "as full retail games".

They always counted...just not as retail games. The argument is why PC in the SW spreadsheet meta game isn't held to the same requirement...try to keep up.

BPoole96

"PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame" :|

Ok so did you or did you not actually read the thread title and content from the OP.. For the last few weeks PC and Consolers have been butting heads more than usual. From price points to software.. And now all of sudden a thread pops up about DL games "counting".. oh and only after the journey scored well.. :| Gimme an F'n break.

I think they should too, but who cares about the SW Metagame. I don't, I play what I like. I don't care if my system has a couple more higher scoring games on metacritic or not. I don't understand why people do care.

I think they should too, but who cares about the SW Metagame. I don't, I play what I like. I don't care if my system has a couple more higher scoring games on metacritic or not. I don't understand why people do care.

ShadowMoses900

For the sole reason that they are counted for PC. Games like The Binding of Isaac are counted and added in the PC library but games like Journey and The Dishwasher don't count for the consoles. Some downloadable games are just as good as full retail games and I don't feel they are given proper recognition on SW. DiscussBPoole96

Indeed, but poeple here think that the 9/10 Journey is a terrible indifferent crap because is a mere donwloadable game

So, these games will never be in the metagame, because for whatever reason are considered terrible here

Mainly because XBLA has so many of them and is the most hated system of all time here

[QUOTE="BPoole96"][QUOTE="OhSnapitz"]

"PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame" :|

Ok so did you or did you not actually read the thread title and content from the OP.. For the last few weeks PC and Consolers have been butting heads more than usual. From price points to software.. And now all of sudden a thread pops up about DL games "counting".. oh and only after the journey scored well.. :| Gimme an F'n break.

OhSnapitz

:| what about mine?

The argument you were just perusing rested on your claim that this was only brought up AFTER a PSN game scored well...but you seem to have skipped over the post I just made to respond to this one so u can continue your same argument.

Even SolidTY said he addressed the issue long before now and I'm sure he has proof as well as me. You are now just going through extremes to hang on to your original statements, you should just back off--you were over anxious to bash sony fans but that's about the whole of it.

Blame the cows for not letting them count they know that the 360 would smash the ps3 in that regard.

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]For the sole reason that they are counted for PC. Games like The Binding of Isaac are counted and added in the PC library but games like Journey and The Dishwasher don't count for the consoles. Some downloadable games are just as good as full retail games and I don't feel they are given proper recognition on SW. DiscussloosingENDS

Indeed, but poeple here think that the 9/10 Journey is a terrible indifferent crap because is a mere donwloadable game

So, these games will never be in the metagame, because for whatever reason are considered terrible here

Mainly because XBLA has so many of them and is the most hated system of all time here

No one says they are terrible, (just lem exaggerations because they want the to count badly as standard games to pad 360's lacking library of exclusive titles: hard truth) people just say they aren't counted on the same level as full retail games.

Down-loadable games count...as down loadable games XBLA and PSN titles. PC has idle down loadable titles as well but they are not counted separately from it's main library of games that are held to a different standard.

[QUOTE="OhSnapitz"][QUOTE="BPoole96"] After you read the title did you even read the first sentence of the OP? I am more of a hermit now that a console gamer anyway. This is pointing out the double standard that DL games count for PC but not for consoles. They should either be sub sectioned for PC the same way it is for consoles or the library should just consist of all games released for each platform on one listcasharmy

:| what about mine?

The argument you were just perusing rested on your claim that this was only brought up AFTER a PSN game scored well...but you seem to have skipped over the post I just made to respond to this one so u can continue your same argument.

Even SolidTY said he addressed the issue long before now and I'm sure he has proof as well as me. You are now just going through extremes to hang on to your original statements, you should just back off--you were over anxious to bash sony fans but that's about the whole of it.

THREAD TITLE: Exactly how many AAA exclusvies are there for PC this gen?

THREAD BODY: I always hear people say "PC has more *high scoring* exclusives than xbox and PS3 combined" but I neversee the games score listed orgames they are talking about. I've seen the other day some one list like 200+ high scoring games compaired to like 40-50 on both PS3 and 360 for this gen alone. Is that number supposed to be, as of nov 2005 when 360 launched? if not it should be. Are all those AAAe and AAe games, or does that including Ae games as well? Now I admit even tho I PC game I don't much keep up with RTS or MMO type games so I might have missed somethig, but I don't really see many exclusive PC games being talked about or praised by games sites or PC fans themselves outside of Stalker (not AAA) Crysis (not exclusive anymore), the Withcer (the one that scored AAA also is not exclusvie anymore) Diablo, Starcraft, WOW..? Now this isn't a bash, but it is clarification. If Ae titles can't be used as high scoring titles by consoles then it can't for PC either. *can someone list number and names of the AAAe PC exclusvies here this gen (as of nov. 2005)?* plz no links to a spreadsheet.

____

Ok where exactly in that can I read "PSN/XBLA games should count" :|

I read the first few pages and it's basically you going back and forth with a few Hermits, along with a few choice words being thrown around. No where did I read "PSN/XBLA games should count." Nor was it part of your OP. What am I missing here friend??? :|

Blame the cows for not letting them count they know that the 360 would smash the ps3 in that regard.

WilliamRLBaker

Journey gets a good score and now they should matter? Xbla has been getting good games for seven years.Miketheman83

[QUOTE="BPoole96"][QUOTE="OhSnapitz"]

"PS3/360/Wii Downloadable Games Should Count in the SW metagame" :|

Ok so did you or did you not actually read the thread title and content from the OP.. For the last few weeks PC and Consolers have been butting heads more than usual. From price points to software.. And now all of sudden a thread pops up about DL games "counting".. oh and only after the journey scored well.. :| Gimme an F'n break.

OhSnapitz

Because its been awhile since a game has DL game has scored AAA. Previously I had not played too many of them but since I started playing PC I have been playing tons of indie games and downlaodable games that are on sale and honestly some of them are more fun and overall better games than some full retail games (Bastion, Magicka, Orcs Must Die, Super Meat Boy, etc) . On SW though they just get swept under the rug for consoles but still count for the PC.

Of course some game scoring well is going to trigger the timing of this kind of thread since that is when people are going to be talking about said games. It is kind ofl late in the gen to start counting them now, but when enxt gen starts I definitely feel they should just count as games instead of having a sub category

when I made a thread just out of curiosity to ask users to list the AAAe PC titles as on nov 2005 (current gen) from the 200+ PC titles I have been told the PC has; which was entitled:

"Exactly how many AAA exclusvies are there for PC this gen?"

and asked people to not link the spreadsheet because it was flawed (after much argument, bit*hing and mud slinging) this is the list of games that I was given by lundy86-4 using teh spreadsheet:

PC:

1. Starcraft II
2. World in Conflict
3. World of Wacraft: The Burning Crusade?
4. Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar*
5. The Witcher 2
6. Shogun 2
7. Civ V
8. World of Warcraft: WotLK?
9. Crysis Warhead
10. Galactic Civilizations II:Twilight of the Arnor*
11. Sins of a Solar Empire
12. GTR2
13. Company of Heroes
14. Galactic Civilizations II: Dread Lords*

this is just from the 14 games counted as AAAe for PC, does anyone else notice something here?

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/28991837/exactly-how-many-aaa-exclusvies-are-there-for-pc-this-gen?page=5

casharmy

Expansions are new games built on the same engine with similar assets, and tend to follow a similar story-line

Tons of console games are guilty of doing the same exact thing. They just aren't sold as expansions, but instead "AWESOME NEW GAME ONLY $60 + $30 DAY ONE DLC".