PS3's minute RAM backfires; is Square-Enix's reason for FFXIV delay.

I am not surprised. Anyone with a gaming PC, just try and run the benchmark... It takes a pretty hefty rig.

Okay so its the PS3 memory that held back this game.But what I don't understand the DC MMO seem to not be having any such problems with memory or missed out on anything about it having issues ..I don't normally say these kind of things on SW but it sounds to me like Lazy Devs.

Promised_Trini

Maybe because DCUO doesn't look nearly as good as this game? Did you ever think of that?

Okay so its the PS3 memory that held back this game.But what I don't understand the DC MMO seem to not be having any such problems with memory or missed out on anything about it having issues ..I don't normally say these kind of things on SW but it sounds to me like Lazy Devs.

Promised_Trini

or it could be that DC Universe isnt technicaly impressive adn FF 14 probaly will be.

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]Gawd, memeory /= storage. Nintendonly

RAM =/= storage. Your point? Nobody in this thread said anything about hard disk space.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]Lazy devs. LucLongleyMVP

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

1. ATI Radeon HDs based PC with 320 stream processors or higher.

2. NV Geforce CUDA based PC with 112 stream processors or higher.

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"][QUOTE="HelloMoto56"]

Confirmed: Xbox 360 is better.

because that's the real, underlying point of this thread, right?

delta3074

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]Lazy devs. Espada12

It is lol, either way I don't see why the big 3 couldn't just put in more RAM in their design if they wanted their consoles to last a significant amount of time.

Unlike PS3's RSX, Xbox 360 has memory/bandwidth saving 3DC+ texture compression hardware feature.

Read Page 6 from http://developer.amd.com/gpu_assets/GDC06-ATI_Session-Tatarchuk-ToyShop.pdf

3Dc+ texture compression was crucial
• We went from 478 MB texture memory total to 156MB

We used dec3n vertex data format to reduce memory
• Gives 3:1 memory savings

Also,

1. NVIDIA Geforce 6000/7000 series and RSX do not support UDEC3/DEC3N. 8000 series is the first nvidia card family with DEC3N/UDEC3 support. http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=45737

2. 8000 series is the first nvidia card family with 3DC+ support.

3. DEC3N is available on ATI Radeon line since Radeon 9700.

Without NVIDIA "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" during the DX9 GPU wars, you get Xbox 360 scenario.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]Lazy devs. LucLongleyMVP

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

Yep it really helps compared to any decent recent computer :roll:

[QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]

[QUOTE="lawlessx"] joke post? ferret-gamer

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

Yep it really helps compared to any decent recent computer :roll:

Lol... He did say slowly though.

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"]

[QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

Captain__Tripps

Yep it really helps compared to any decent recent computer :roll:

Lol... He did say slowly though.

yeah thats true, maybe he was being literal with that statement.

Okay so its the PS3 memory that held back this game.But what I don't understand the DC MMO seem to not be having any such problems with memory or missed out on anything about it having issues ..I don't normally say these kind of things on SW but it sounds to me like Lazy Devs.

Promised_Trini

No one has said that XIV Can't run on the PS3, simply that getting the game to run smoothly on 512mb RAM has taken longer than anticipated. It'll be out in a few months, and it'll run fine.

Sorry but that means dick all vis-a-vis the PS3 vs. the 360. There is no indication they would have fared any better on the 360.

Nor for that matter are devs limited to 256MB of RAM for graphics on the PS3. The memory bandwidth isn't as good if the utilize more, but it's entirely possible to use system memory for textures, etc. as well.

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"]Obviously. @TC, what do you mean only one of those cards is available?Nintendonly

The other 256 MB RAM card in the PS3 is dedicated to one of the processors and is unavailable for dev use.

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]Lazy devs. LucLongleyMVP

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

[QUOTE="Vader993"]

ok i hate j-rpgs

zarshack

Just because it´s a MMO game,doesn´t mean it isn´t a JRPG.

JMMORPG Maybe?:D

I think this is a little bit silly. We are almost 5 years into the PS3's life and things like this should be a minor grip with devs. Learn the architecture and get with the program. I've read on a few sites (not sure where; will try to find link) that both Insomniac and Naughty Dog have small teams dedicated to helping out 3rd Party devs with Ps3 development...FOR FREE! No excuses.AcidSoldner

Yeah, I kinda agree SE needed to be better prepared for the challenge, or even more aware of it... after all, at E3 they were restating the belief both clients would launch simultaneously. Two weeks later, they announce the PC client for September and PS3 next March. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal. I'd bet most PS3 players would rather have the client a little late than buggy.

This, of course, is what comes from putting the PC first in development. That was probably their biggest mistake.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]I think this is a little bit silly. We are almost 5 years into the PS3's life and things like this should be a minor grip with devs. Learn the architecture and get with the program. I've read on a few sites (not sure where; will try to find link) that both Insomniac and Naughty Dog have small teams dedicated to helping out 3rd Party devs with Ps3 development...FOR FREE! No excuses.santoron

Yeah, I kinda agree SE needed to be better prepared for the challenge, or even more aware of it... after all, at E3 they were restating the belief both clients would launch simultaneously. Two weeks later, they announce the PC client for September and PS3 next March. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal. I'd bet most PS3 players would rather have the client a little late than buggy.

You can say naught dog this and naughty dog that all you want but they never developed an MMO.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]I think this is a little bit silly. We are almost 5 years into the PS3's life and things like this should be a minor grip with devs. Learn the architecture and get with the program. I've read on a few sites (not sure where; will try to find link) that both Insomniac and Naughty Dog have small teams dedicated to helping out 3rd Party devs with Ps3 development...FOR FREE! No excuses.Human-after-all

Yeah, I kinda agree SE needed to be better prepared for the challenge, or even more aware of it... after all, at E3 they were restating the belief both clients would launch simultaneously. Two weeks later, they announce the PC client for September and PS3 next March. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal. I'd bet most PS3 players would rather have the client a little late than buggy.

You can say naught dog this and naughty dog that all you want but they never developed an MMO.

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

FF14 recommends 4 Gb's of ram and a GTX 460 which has at least 768 Mb ram.

Since TC is doing his own science I shall personalize mine as well:

PC memory recommened: 4768 Mb of total RAM.

PS3 memory available: 512 Mb of total RAM.

Edit: And MMOs are just demanding games.. Think you can max wow at 1080p, 60 fps with a GTX285 fx? Think again.. It'll be fine for a while but then you enter Dalaran or a Raid... And this is WoW (2004). FF14 is going to kill your rig at high settings.

Really SE? I could see this posted 2 years ago, but there is no excuse now. You've had ample time to work with the PS3. It's pretty lame how you have to blame the console.

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

AcidSoldner

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

AdrianWerner

Makes me wonder why they didn't have 2 development teams, one for the PC and one for the PS3.

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]

[QUOTE="lawlessx"] joke post? ferret-gamer

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

Yep it really helps compared to any decent recent computer :roll:

[QUOTE="Human-after-all"]

[QUOTE="santoron"]

Yeah, I kinda agree SE needed to be better prepared for the challenge, or even more aware of it... after all, at E3 they were restating the belief both clients would launch simultaneously. Two weeks later, they announce the PC client for September and PS3 next March. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal. I'd bet most PS3 players would rather have the client a little late than buggy.

AcidSoldner

You can say naught dog this and naughty dog that all you want but they never developed an MMO.

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

Jynxzor

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]

Did you even read my post? I said that Naughty Dog and Insomniac both provide support teams for any publisher or developer that requires help with the Ps3 hardware. All SE has to do is hit up either of those devs and I'm sure they would be more than happy to help work out whatever issues SE is running into.

AdrianWerner

Except they didn't delay the game. FFXIV releases Sept 22nd on the PC (30th without the SE). It's just the PS3 client that's been delayed. They aren't redesigning the game... merely taking extra time to optimize the PS3 client. Even though they announced the delay (months ago), they've never intimated any insurmountable problems. They merely stated they needed more time on that client for optimization. Nearly two months after the first announcement, we still haven't heard anything that hints that the PS3 version won't be up in running early next year.

And SE has good reason to bring consoles into their new MMO. Contrary to your assumption, XI had more subscribers playing from the PS2 and 360 clients for much of its history... it was actually Designed and released first on the PS2 and later released on PC. SE's philosophy for XIV is to require pretty beefy PC specs and release the console client to provide an inexpensive alternative. Later, as the initial specs become more prevalent in mainstream PCs, people will start to migrate toward that platform, much as they did with XI.

Contrary to your assumption, XI had more subscribers playing from the PS2 and 360 clients for much of its history...

santoron

I'll effort further tomorrow, but tonight I got bupkis when looking for data going back futher than 2009, by which point PC had a solid overall lead. I want to say that the console releases were still dominant into late 2006, but treat as hearsay until I can find more. The 2009 numbers still were illuminating though. About 20% of NA players and over 30% of Japanese players were still using a console version as their primary access to XI. And that's in a time when even the cheapest store-bought pc or laptop could run the game well (no data was listed for EU). At that time, there were still 500,000 active subscriptions to the game. So even with those numbers its easy to see why SE is returning to the cross platform formula. 100,000 + subscribers is larger than most mmos ever sustain. I'll get on my PC in the morning for more. Need sleep and I'm sick of typing on my phone ;p

[QUOTE="santoron"]

Contrary to your assumption, XI had more subscribers playing from the PS2 and 360 clients for much of its history...

AdrianWerner

[QUOTE="lawlessx"][QUOTE="AAllxxjjnn"]Lazy devs. LucLongleyMVP

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"]

[QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

Yep it really helps compared to any decent recent computer :roll:

joke post? lawlessx

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

[QUOTE="Locutus_Picard"][QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

karasill

some people here must seriously be joking, have you even bothered reading some of the recommended specs for ff xiv?

one of their listings recommended a 460

id love to know how many of you have that

i_am_interested

Yeah I had a look at the reccomended system requirements for this game. It's quite high for an MMO.

I thought that they keep system requirements down on MMOs, so that more and more people can play it. I thought thats why the system requirements of WoW are quite low.

[QUOTE="santoron"]

I think this is a little bit silly. We are almost 5 years into the PS3's life and things like this should be a minor grip with devs. Learn the architecture and get with the program. I've read on a few sites (not sure where; will try to find link) that both Insomniac and Naughty Dog have small teams dedicated to helping out 3rd Party devs with Ps3 development...FOR FREE! No excuses.AcidSoldner

Yeah, I kinda agree SE needed to be better prepared for the challenge, or even more aware of it... after all, at E3 they were restating the belief both clients would launch simultaneously. Two weeks later, they announce the PC client for September and PS3 next March. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal. I'd bet most PS3 players would rather have the client a little late than buggy.

You can say naught dog this and naughty dog that all you want but they never developed an MMO.

please don't even compare. what your showing there? the majority of those high numbers are contributed by hardcore users that literally create GPU farms in their homes with up to 20+ gpu's set in a paralel configuration and costing up to 20k. I dont think folding does any thing for the world, but really the ps3 is a single thing, where as the majority of those numbers are based upon gpu farmers.

WilliamRLBaker

Sorry, GPU farms claim is wrong. My old ASUS G1S laptop's Geforce 8600M GT GDDR3 scores about 1300 PPD. The kitbash IBM VMX ISA(aka SPE ISA) is no match against NVIDIA CUDA in math matrix processing.

Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9650M GT's 32 stream processors has 32768 32bit registers.

Geforce 9600 GSO's 96 SPs has 98304 32bit registers.

PS3's 7 SPEs only has 896 128bit registers or effectively has 3584 32bit registers. As you may already know, registers are the fastest known data storage method and the modern GPUs has more of it.

PowerPC camp's argument on their superior register count against X86 comes back to haunt them i.e. the modern GPUs from NVIDIA and AMD smashes PowerPC camp's claim to fame.

AMD's ATI Radeon HD 4850/4870(RV770) has about 2 megabyte worth of register data storage i.e. do the math on RV770'sregister count.

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

please don't even compare. what your showing there? the majority of those high numbers are contributed by hardcore users that literally create GPU farms in their homes with up to 20+ gpu's set in a paralel configuration and costing up to 20k. I dont think folding does any thing for the world, but really the ps3 is a single thing, where as the majority of those numbers are based upon gpu farmers.

ronvalencia

Sorry, GPU farms claim is wrong. My old ASUS G1S laptop's Geforce 8600M GT GDDR3 scores about 1300 PPD. The kitbash IBM VMX ISA(aka SPE ISA) is no match against NVIDIA CUDA in math matrix processing.

Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9650M GT's 32 stream processors has 32768 32bit registers.

Geforce 9600 GSO's 96 SPs has 98304 32bit registers.

PS3's 7 SPEs only has 896 128bit registers or effectively has 3584 32bit registers.

As you may already know, registers are the fastest known data storage method and the modern GPUs has more of it.

Yeah fun part here is that you are comparing a GPU to a CPU the fact that Cell can be even compare say it all.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

please don't even compare. what your showing there? the majority of those high numbers are contributed by hardcore users that literally create GPU farms in their homes with up to 20+ gpu's set in a paralel configuration and costing up to 20k. I dont think folding does any thing for the world, but really the ps3 is a single thing, where as the majority of those numbers are based upon gpu farmers.

Eltormo

Sorry, GPU farms claim is wrong. My old ASUS G1S laptop's Geforce 8600M GT GDDR3 scores about 1300 PPD. The kitbash IBM VMX ISA(aka SPE ISA) is no match against NVIDIA CUDA in math matrix processing.

Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9650M GT's 32 stream processors has 32768 32bit registers.

Geforce 9600 GSO's 96 SPs has 98304 32bit registers.

PS3's 7 SPEs only has 896 128bit registers or effectively has 3584 32bit registers.

As you may already know, registers are the fastest known data storage method and the modern GPUs has more of it.

Yeah fun part here is that you are comparing a GPU to a CPU the fact that Cell can be even compare say it all.

Replace GPU with GpGPU. Modern GPUs are not simple devices like Geforce 7/RSX. GPU vs CPU shouldn't matter since we are dealing with similar workload targets e.g. raster based rendering and fold@ home.

If you notice in math HPC market, IBM CELL's competitors are AMD's Stream Processors (enterprise c.lass Radeon HDs)and NVIDIA's Tesla (enterprise c.lass Geforce CUDA).

IBM cancelled HPC CELL's R&D sometime after the launch of AMD's Evergreen (aka Radeon HD 5870)GpGPUs i.e. the proposed HPC CELL would be dead of on arrival.

You then add

1. NVIDIA's Fermi GpGPU competition.

2. By the end of this year, AMD plans to refresh it's Radeon HD lines to Radeon HD 6000s ("Southern Islands"). Sometime end of next year, it's ATI"Northern Islands" release.

[QUOTE="Nintendonly"]

For those of you who don't know, the Xbox 360 has 512 MB unified RAM, whereas the PS3 has 256 MB + 256 MB. Only one of those RAM cards is available to devs, and acts as one of the biggest hurdles during PS3 game development. See: Ghostbusters.

HelloMoto56

Confirmed: Xbox 360 is better.

because that's the real, underlying point of this thread, right?

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

please don't even compare. what your showing there? the majority of those high numbers are contributed by hardcore users that literally create GPU farms in their homes with up to 20+ gpu's set in a paralel configuration and costing up to 20k. I dont think folding does any thing for the world, but really the ps3 is a single thing, where as the majority of those numbers are based upon gpu farmers.

Eltormo

Sorry, GPU farms claim is wrong. My old ASUS G1S laptop's Geforce 8600M GT GDDR3 scores about 1300 PPD. The kitbash IBM VMX ISA(aka SPE ISA) is no match against NVIDIA CUDA in math matrix processing.

Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9650M GT's 32 stream processors has 32768 32bit registers.

Geforce 9600 GSO's 96 SPs has 98304 32bit registers.

PS3's 7 SPEs only has 896 128bit registers or effectively has 3584 32bit registers.

As you may already know, registers are the fastest known data storage method and the modern GPUs has more of it.

Yeah fun part here is that you are comparing a GPU to a CPU the fact that Cell can be even compare say it all.

Why does that say I'm being quoted. I don't think I've ever commented on Folding Home :|

[QUOTE="Eltormo"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Sorry, GPU farms claim is wrong. My old ASUS G1S laptop's Geforce 8600M GT GDDR3 scores about 1300 PPD. The kitbash IBM VMX ISA(aka SPE ISA) is no match against NVIDIA CUDA in math matrix processing.

Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9650M GT's 32 stream processors has 32768 32bit registers.

Geforce 9600 GSO's 96 SPs has 98304 32bit registers.

PS3's 7 SPEs only has 896 128bit registers or effectively has 3584 32bit registers.

As you may already know, registers are the fastest known data storage method and the modern GPUs has more of it.

Filthybastrd

Yeah fun part here is that you are comparing a GPU to a CPU the fact that Cell can be even compare say it all.

Why does that say I'm being quoted. I don't think I've ever commented on Folding Home :|

[QUOTE="LucLongleyMVP"]

[QUOTE="lawlessx"] joke post? Locutus_Picard

PS3 is a super computer and is slowly curing cancer with folding at home, never doubt teh cell.

Read http://folding.stanford.edu/

Protein folding is linked to disease, such as Alzheimer's, ALS, Huntington's, Parkinson's disease, and many Cancers