PS4 Based On Existing Cell Processor? Long Read

That'd kick ass if they john carmack made a super doom3 lol...he said that back in the day taking advantage of cell processor.

Like if you shot the glass with the monsters in the water parts tanks on doom3 with cell you have probley have water physics.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

If true I think developers across the planet just face palmed, that and the other platforms look more inviting than ever.

Developers not under Sony's influence criticise Cell, twice as much effort to do the same thing according to Carmack. If I found out I had to put up with it for another generation, while all the other platforms are as easy to develop for as ever, why wouldn't the PS4 version of every cross platform game be an after thought?

-Renegade

Well I think they are trying to alleviate that problem by sticking with the Cell so developers don't have to relearn new hardware all over again.

true, but that doesnt solve the problem of inherent cell archetectural incapabilities with general graphics rendering (its high effecient in specialized graphics rendering which accounts for 10%).

This is probably more of a cost cutting solution for SONY. You can imagine the sony executives sitting and discussing upcoming marketing strategy.

Executive 1: we cannot deny the success of xbox 360 last quater.

Exec 2: yes we've all admitted that, but we need a solution, We need to beat them at their game!

Exec 3: I know! Lets just copy what Microsoft did, but do it 1 step ahead of them!

Exec 2: Brilliant! lets make cheaper consoles that releases to the public ahead of MS, THEN Microsoft the Sony of next generation!

Exec 3: ahahaha I love it, we would have pulled a devil bluff on MS, they would think we're the same old SONY.

Exec 1: Okay, but then what do we do if Microsoft becomes us, but instead of becoming us, they become.. like the better version of us, which then would blow us, who is trying to become old them, out of the water Again.

Exec 2+3: nah that wont happen, wishful thinking is how we got to where we are today, and its going to carry us forward to the next generation. Yes lets all hail to wishful thinking.

the end.

just a little sony bashing inuititon striking up in my brain. Dont take this that seriously sony fans though, please be humored.

cell processor=overrated

i havent seen it do anything the xbox360 cpu cant.

i havent seen games with deformable metal and water physics and crap or cloth physics/ripable.

You know... that's a thought.

All GPUs today are equipped with GPGPU interfaces, which means consoles running to ATI/Nvidia next gen will have the option of using them. Granted it costs GPU performance to do it, but it allows the sort of work they are getting from Cell on an existing and easy to program for component.

Assuming they don't remove the interface for cost cutting measures, all consoles will be equipped with Cell like capabilities next gen.

if microsoft didnt cut out the freaking out of order process on 360's cpu xenon it would of been alot more powerful, but the a-holes went cheap.

I can see this. Why not the Cell is a good processor and developers are learning how to program for it. All the PS4 needs is a faster clock speed and more spus.

edit: Infact thinking about this more it would be smart of Sony to go this route. The big hurdle for PS3 early on was it's new architecture. Developers would love it if Sony kept it the same, but with faster components.

EmperorSupreme

very few cpus have manged to go more than 3.2-3.4 ghz as they start to fry themselves, a couple of hundred mhz isn't going to save the ppc based cell. ppc needs atleast 4x the clock speed to match a core 2 duo

[QUOTE="agentzero23"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

odin2019

yeah exactly what I was thinking. Sony not pushing the industry to its limits like its done in past years. I may not buy a ps4 if its going to be like that and maybe I will buy what the competition has to offer in that case either way I will wait to see what happens what the final product of the ps4 is truely capable of before I jump to conclusion but it doesn't sound good.

I want graphical improvement, AI improvement, more game space, etc.......

what just have 2 or more cells together and there you have a more powerful console

How much more powerful?

in theory 2x in practice much the same, just look at how unused the power of quad cores is.

yea...if microsoft didnt cut out the out of order code on xenon on 360 cpu....it would of been more powerful and easier to program for...because your code doesnt have to be as optimized to run as good.

but it would of cost microsoft more money.

[QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="agentzero23"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

imprezawrx500

yeah exactly what I was thinking. Sony not pushing the industry to its limits like its done in past years. I may not buy a ps4 if its going to be like that and maybe I will buy what the competition has to offer in that case either way I will wait to see what happens what the final product of the ps4 is truely capable of before I jump to conclusion but it doesn't sound good.

I want graphical improvement, AI improvement, more game space, etc.......

what just have 2 or more cells together and there you have a more powerful console

How much more powerful?

in theory 2x in practice much the same, just look at how unused the power of quad cores is.

lol dude...sorry to tell you the cell is more powerful than a core2 duo...cell can do graphics card like features shaders/lighting.

ive seen in techdemos ageia cell doing liquid/water physics....the core2 duo would probley crawl in framerate trying to render that.

yea...if microsoft didnt cut out the out of order code on xenon on 360 cpu....it would of been more powerful and easier to program for...because your code doesnt have to be as optimized to run as good.

but it would of cost microsoft more money.

woobabooba

a athlon 4000+ single core would have been much better and not much more. those 3 cores are barley more than the one amd core

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]

yea...if microsoft didnt cut out the out of order code on xenon on 360 cpu....it would of been more powerful and easier to program for...because your code doesnt have to be as optimized to run as good.

but it would of cost microsoft more money.

imprezawrx500

a athlon 4000+ single core would have been much better and not much more. those 3 cores are barley more than the one amd core

if they didnt cut out the....out of order cpu process then it would of been more powerful .

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="agentzero23"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

woobabooba

yeah exactly what I was thinking. Sony not pushing the industry to its limits like its done in past years. I may not buy a ps4 if its going to be like that and maybe I will buy what the competition has to offer in that case either way I will wait to see what happens what the final product of the ps4 is truely capable of before I jump to conclusion but it doesn't sound good.

I want graphical improvement, AI improvement, more game space, etc.......

what just have 2 or more cells together and there you have a more powerful console

How much more powerful?

in theory 2x in practice much the same, just look at how unused the power of quad cores is.

lol dude...sorry to tell you the cell is more powerful than a core2 duo...cell can do graphics card like features shaders/lighting.

ive seen in techdemos ageia cell doing liquid/water physics....the core2 duo would probley crawl in framerate trying to render that.

in theory but not in practice, where are the crysis or wic or stalker level physics on ps3? the fact is the cell has huge floating point but is weak in other areas where the core2 completly destorys the cell and the cell has nothing on a gefore 8800 let along a radeon 4870

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="agentzero23"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

imprezawrx500

yeah exactly what I was thinking. Sony not pushing the industry to its limits like its done in past years. I may not buy a ps4 if its going to be like that and maybe I will buy what the competition has to offer in that case either way I will wait to see what happens what the final product of the ps4 is truely capable of before I jump to conclusion but it doesn't sound good.

I want graphical improvement, AI improvement, more game space, etc.......

what just have 2 or more cells together and there you have a more powerful console

How much more powerful?

in theory 2x in practice much the same, just look at how unused the power of quad cores is.

lol dude...sorry to tell you the cell is more powerful than a core2 duo...cell can do graphics card like features shaders/lighting.

ive seen in techdemos ageia cell doing liquid/water physics....the core2 duo would probley crawl in framerate trying to render that.

in theory but not in practice, where are the crysis or wic or stalker level physics on ps3? the fact is the cell has huge floating point but is weak in other areas where the core2 completly destorys the cell and the cell has nothing on a gefore 8800 let along a radeon 4870

yea a 8800/above is better at ageia physics than cell.

but it's also running the graphics lol...so not running it best it could be souly dedicated.

crysis or stalker really doesnt have any advanced physics man.

there's no water physics on crysis or stalker...the tree's bend and stuff but it's not that great painkiller had bridges that flexed and stuff back in 2004 i remember even seeing cloth physics on splinter cell back in the day...it wasnt ripable though.

the houses have predetermined break points on crysis scripted.

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

sargentbotk

PS4=PS3 is what it looks like.

I wouldn't think they need to do much more than up the clock speeds and things like that. I wouldnt add more SPUs as that just makes development complex, same with adding another cell, no dev is gonna want to make their code that complex for the CPU.

What they could do is add another general core, so there are two general cores and six or so SPUs. I bet that would make the devs happy, with more ram and a faster Blu Ray drive with a common HDD, I bet they could do a lot.

[QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="agentzero23"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

woobabooba

yeah exactly what I was thinking. Sony not pushing the industry to its limits like its done in past years. I may not buy a ps4 if its going to be like that and maybe I will buy what the competition has to offer in that case either way I will wait to see what happens what the final product of the ps4 is truely capable of before I jump to conclusion but it doesn't sound good.

I want graphical improvement, AI improvement, more game space, etc.......

what just have 2 or more cells together and there you have a more powerful console

How much more powerful?

in theory 2x in practice much the same, just look at how unused the power of quad cores is.

lol dude...sorry to tell you the cell is more powerful than a core2 duo...cell can do graphics card like features shaders/lighting.

ive seen in techdemos ageia cell doing liquid/water physics....the core2 duo would probley crawl in framerate trying to render that.

in theory but not in practice, where are the crysis or wic or stalker level physics on ps3? the fact is the cell has huge floating point but is weak in other areas where the core2 completly destorys the cell and the cell has nothing on a gefore 8800 let along a radeon 4870

yea a 8800/above is better at ageia physics than cell.

but it's also running the graphics lol...so not running it best it could be souly dedicated.

crysis or stalker really doesnt have any advanced physics man.

there's no water physics on crysis or stalker...the tree's bend and stuff but it's not that great painkiller had bridges that flexed and stuff back in 2004 i remember even seeing cloth physics on splinter cell back in the day...it wasnt ripable though.

the houses have predetermined break points on crysis scripted.

Someone hasn't played crysis. No physics? LOL

[QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="woobabooba"][QUOTE="imprezawrx500"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="agentzero23"][QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="sargentbotk"]

Ew...Even though it may be cheaper, this still doesn't sound right.

PS4=PS3.5 confirmed :)

Dynafrom

yeah exactly what I was thinking. Sony not pushing the industry to its limits like its done in past years. I may not buy a ps4 if its going to be like that and maybe I will buy what the competition has to offer in that case either way I will wait to see what happens what the final product of the ps4 is truely capable of before I jump to conclusion but it doesn't sound good.

I want graphical improvement, AI improvement, more game space, etc.......

what just have 2 or more cells together and there you have a more powerful console

How much more powerful?

in theory 2x in practice much the same, just look at how unused the power of quad cores is.

lol dude...sorry to tell you the cell is more powerful than a core2 duo...cell can do graphics card like features shaders/lighting.

ive seen in techdemos ageia cell doing liquid/water physics....the core2 duo would probley crawl in framerate trying to render that.

in theory but not in practice, where are the crysis or wic or stalker level physics on ps3? the fact is the cell has huge floating point but is weak in other areas where the core2 completly destorys the cell and the cell has nothing on a gefore 8800 let along a radeon 4870

yea a 8800/above is better at ageia physics than cell.

but it's also running the graphics lol...so not running it best it could be souly dedicated.

crysis or stalker really doesnt have any advanced physics man.

there's no water physics on crysis or stalker...the tree's bend and stuff but it's not that great painkiller had bridges that flexed and stuff back in 2004 i remember even seeing cloth physics on splinter cell back in the day...it wasnt ripable though.

the houses have predetermined break points on crysis scripted.

Someone hasn't played crysis. No physics? LOL

there's no water physics except objects floating on top of the surface.

there's no water physics except objects floating on top of the surface.

woobabooba

As for more advanced physics (such as cloth physics and flow physics), this is just now being explored since computational complexity was previously too demanding. Perhaps in a year or two (GP)GPU cards will be fast enough to do a full game with simultaneous advanced physics functions as seen in, say, nVidia's CUDA demos.

[QUOTE="woobabooba"]

there's no water physics except objects floating on top of the surface.

HuusAsking

As for more advanced physics (such as cloth physics and flow physics), this is just now being explored since computational complexity was previously too demanding. Perhaps in a year or two (GP)GPU cards will be fast enough to do a full game with simultaneous advanced physics functions as seen in, say, nVidia's CUDA demos.

before the houses break they have spots...where it needs to be hit to fall apart that's predetermined the dev shows it on video on youtube...but after it falls apart that's all real time/physics falling apart each time

Goto Hiroshige has received PSX4 spec info from Japanese developer sources who received preliminary spec from SCEI for developer feedback(whom Goto refuses to name due to NDA).

- SCEI has sent rough PSX4 spec to 3rd party developers for feed back. Based on the description, PSX4 is a Wii-tized PSX3, no more than 2X as powerful.
- SCEI wants to beat Xbox 3 to launch. 2011 is the deadline, or sooner.
- SCEI pulled all its engineers from IBM Texas, and there is no new CELL architecture being developed. PSX4 will use same CELL architecture with improvements.
- SCEI will dump XDR and use standard JEDEC memory type(GDDR3/DDR3) for main memory.

Sounds like 2 PS3's stuck together, kinda like the Wii = 2 gamecubes stuck together.PS4 to be the new Wii next gen.

Unlucky cows.

Being "based" on the cell processor could mean many things. Heck, couldnt that mean it could have multiple cells?

Anyway, I'm actually not angry to hear that it might not be a HUGE graphical leap for the next gen, and I wouldnt mind if the 720 was the same thing. This gen is too friggin expensive for developers, and I care far too much about this hobby to see them getting drove into the ground, creating games like The Orange Box and worrying whether or not they'll turn a profit.

Heck if the developement costs go down next then that could mean the return of 3rd party exclusives for all we know.

But on the flip side of Sony truely pulls a Wii and goes casual I will not be happy.

THe playstation brand is almost dead. Just one more gen!tccavey2

Are you being sarcastic?

Well I have the PS3 for 14 months.

If they make new system in 2010-2011 than they can forget my money for it. I'm planing to have ps3 for at least five more years.

If this is going to change so fast than I will buy PS5.

But on the other hand maybe I would not play games then (2015)

[QUOTE="Roushrsh"]

[QUOTE="Couth_"][QUOTE="Roushrsh"]Obviously sony didn't spend all that money developping the cell to only use it for 1 generation, they'll probably put 2 of an improved version of the original cell in the ps4 or something to that extentHuusAsking

The original was 2 cells, one to act as a gpu and the other as a cpu, they just weren't able to get it to work in time

Really, I thought I had read that they weren't able to get it to work in time so they bought the rsx ( a geforce 7800GTX) from Nvidia at the last possible moment.

The PS4 will only come out in like 3 to 4 years; they really dont know what there really going to put in it.

Im guessing its going to be a juiced up 65nm Cell Processor with a GPU as strong as a 9800GX2.

Possibly around 2 GB of RAM

I still think that Sony will still use Blu Ray because a Blu Ray disc can go to up to like 200GB now.

plus with faster reading speeds now

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="Roushrsh"]

[QUOTE="Couth_"][QUOTE="Roushrsh"]Obviously sony didn't spend all that money developping the cell to only use it for 1 generation, they'll probably put 2 of an improved version of the original cell in the ps4 or something to that extentRoushrsh

The original was 2 cells, one to act as a gpu and the other as a cpu, they just weren't able to get it to work in time

Really, I thought I had read that they weren't able to get it to work in time so they bought the rsx ( a geforce 7800GTX) from Nvidia at the last possible moment.

Good. That should help it be cheaper in price.Cedmln

Theres some good out of this. For one, the cell is fairly powerful and a good piece of hardware, im fairly certain that the leaps from this gen to the next wont be as massive like it was coming into this gen so it should still be relevant next gen. The devs would be firmiliar with the hardware meaning better games. And also the price shouldnt be as big of a problemEVOLV3

Maybe next generation will be like the era like PSone from PS2. PSone was the first time we say 3D games on consoles and then there was the PS2, not a major upgrade from the PSone era but we had tons of great games. This generation was kinda a of a transition into HD so maybe next generation we will get the full effect. With familiar hardware maybe we will get tons of games next generation.