PS4.5 could theoretically play PS3 games in native 4K with better visuals and superior FPS.

3840x2160 resolution yes.

I own a GTX 580, it's faster than the PS4 GPU by a good amount and some, however on a spec by spec basis to the PC 7850/7870 it's only a bit faster than the 7870, and around 20% faster than the 7850.

I run a lot of games just fine at 1440P DSR, and some others as high as 3840x2160 DSR on my 580, though they are mostly last generation games.

The PS4.5 if it has the real rumored spec could easily take advantage of this, and it would give SONY more appeal to their new "4.5" thoughts?

And no not every game will be able to do this, games like Battlefield 3 or Max Payne 3 where GPU horsepower is quite lacking even for a 580 to do that at 4K, though 1440P is more than fine.

Images for proof.

Dead Island 45-60FPS 4K. ( i don't run this normally at 4K, i only go to 2560x1440 where i maintain 70-100FPS)

2xMSAA 4096x4096 shadow resolution 4K FF13. (Solid 30)

And the PS3 could run dual 1080p @ 120fps in 4D.

Cool, would be nice to know that all the PS3 physical copy games I have could be pop'd in to a PS4 and played with no issue and actually enhanced.

Again, Sony should face out the current PS4's and replace them with the .5 going forward.

Having both out at the same time will be silly and since they are in a position of in charge this gen, they can do so.

Having so many models last gen (the PS3 and 360) really made it a mess.

Yes it definitely could, but doubt they are bringing ps3 emulation

Has sony officially announced a 4.5?

Good god, think of the graphics threads then...lol

@rekonmeister:

Definitely could. The problem is that not enough people own 4k TVs. It makes much more sense for Sony to up the lighting quality or frame rate instead, as that's much more accessible to everybody. On the other hand, could consoles start seeing graphics settings now?

maybe,if developers actually ported them first cause this ain't possible through emulation

I'd just be happy with 1080p rendering of PS3 games. I want me some 1080p Red Dead Redemption.

It's all but official at this point.

So, No, Sony hasn't announced anything yet?

Unless the games themselves were reprogrammed for the PS4k architecture, it would take one helluva emulator for such a proposition to happen. And I have very little doubt that Sony is not keen to make it happen.

Not gonna happen unless the games are reprogrammed from the ground up. Cell architecture is significantly different from the x86 architecture that the PS4 uses.

Not even good emulation can do that because the PS4.5's theoretical hardware is still too weak to emulate PS3 and get good performance and resolution.

I assumed you mean "phase out" and that's just laughable and would be commercial suicide for them. Alienating the largest modern console fanbase by forcing them to upgrade to a new console well before the old one is dead and gone is... HAHAHA.

Unless the new PS has a higher clocked Cell processor it'll never play PS3 games at 4k with a higher FPS.

Emulating Cell on an x86 based CPU just isn't possible at anything resembling decent speed.... let alone faster.

The PS4 and PS4.5 will have the same games, the PS4.5 will just be doing more with them.

No one that already owns a PS4 will be forced.

I take it that you mean 7th gen titles at 4k. The PS4 is doing the same thing right now, running last games at 1080p. Only problem is that either way we're still playing 7th gen games.

Again, Sony has directly said this? Or is this more speculation?

Yeah, Sony are really going to add backward compatibility to any new console. They make far to much money from 're-masters'

@rekonmeister: I love the sweet smell of ignorance in the morning.

1) It will upscale to 4K from 1080p. No big shocker there.

2) It will have some prettier wall/background textures.

3) It will definitely squeeze out a few more fps. How many depends on the game.

You're welcome.

Speculation of course. This is what I would like to happen. (i said the same thing at another thread, which why started that sentence with "Again,")

Laughable thread

Sony would lose money, remasters make bank

@FLOPPAGE_50: He's just saying that they could.

The PS4 has the GPU horsepower. Emulating the PS3 with that tablet CPU is a different matter entirely.

Well actually, the current Ps4 might be able to handle Ps3 games in 4K30 through ports. Barely, but Ps4 gpu is about 9x better than 360's, which in turn was better than Ps3's.

So Uncharted 2 on the nathan drake collection, if they took out the texture improvements, 60fps and everything else, could probably run it at 4K. If the Ps4 could output 4K that is

So yeah the new Ps4 could defnitely handle Ps3 games at 4K.

we barely have a working ps3 emulator on pc... wtf makes u think sony is wasting money trying to emulate ps3 games

@rekonmeister:

With modern DX12 games, 7850 will beat 580 GTX

Notice 7850 riving GTX 670/680

Treat each SPU like a cut-down PPC Altivec/VMX workload.

For PS3 games, CELL has 6 SPU + 1 VMX to emulate i.e. this is like attempting to emulate 7 PPEs instead of 3 PPE.

XBO's 6 Jaguar CPU cores/6 threads at 1.75 Ghz just emulates X360 PPE 3X at 3.2Ghz (6 threads 1.6 Ghz effective), using Microsoft's cutting edge PPC-to-X86 translator that rivals Apple's Rosetta. Microsoft's PPC-to-X86 translator is already emulating 128 register VMX and SPE has 128 registers. The translator has use AVX at the minimum.

To emulate PS3, it has 6 threads at 3.2Ghz from 6 SPUs and two threads at 1.6 Ghz effective from PPE.

SPE doesn't have dual threads to share resources, hence it's a solid 3.2Ghz is allocated to single thread.

For PC to emulate CELL,

Six 128 bit SIMD engines at 3.2 Ghz for 6 SPU target. Must be AVXv2 to make fused add-multiply (FMA/MAD) emulation efficient.

One 128 bit SIMD engine at 3.2 Ghz with duel threads to target PPE at 3.2 Ghz (1.6ghz effective for dual threads).

Total seven 128 bit SIMD engines would be needed.

As you can see, 6 Jaguar cores 1.7Ghz is not sufficient to emulate 6 SPE at 3.2Ghz.

No that's just a poorly coded title on PC, a 7850 does not have the features of Tonga, nor can it even come near to a GTX 690 which is 2 GTX 680's, yet in that game it's just behind it thanks to a bad port.

@ronvalencia said:

@rekonmeister:

With modern DX12 games, 7850 will beat 580 GTX

Notice 7850 riving GTX 670/680

Fermi GTX 580 is a GPGPU powerhouse, it's why it beats Kepler in Hitman Absolution, and not by a small amount, it crushes Kepler.

Maybe they will add it to tempt some of those not keen to buy basically the same console for just a small performance upgrade. Sweeten the pot a little and hell, even though I probably wouldn't use it, I still have the urge to own it. Just take my money already.

GTX 670 still has the edge over GTX 580, but this is with old DX11 workloads

GCNs flexes it's GpGPU power with divergent workloads (ray bounce).

Microsoft's Shader Model 6 exposes AMD's GCN GpGPU power i.e. it's wavefront compute model with 64bit integer support.

PS4 doesn't have the CPU to maximize it's GPU.

@ronvalencia said:

GTX 670 still has the edge over GTX 580, but this is with old DX11 workloads

Not maxed out it don't.

that means Tesselation, and all bells and whistles enabled, with 8xMSAA, the 680 trails the 580 by a large amount.

For Ryse: Son of Rome, R7-265 (PS4 level GPU) smashed GTX 580.

R7-265 (33 fps) Mantle beats 580 (28 fps)

R7-265 = 1.89 TFLOPS ~= PS4 GPU = 1.84 TFLOPS

GTX 570 dead for Far Cry Primal.

Radeon HD 6950 result is 2X over GTX 570 LOL.

AMD GPUs are aging better than NVIDIA counterparts.

The near maximum software infrastructure optimization for AMD GCN (for PC and XBO) is when a game uses DirectX12 with Shader Model 6.0(wavefront usage) + Async Compute.

,

Wavefront = AMD's GpGPU terminology.

Warp = NVIDIA's GpGPU terminology.

AMD and Microsoft forced NVIDIA towards AMD's GpGPU model

NVIDIA Pascal SM unit

256 KB register file per SM with 64 32bit cuda rocessors.

AMD GCN CU

256 KB register file per CU with 64 32bit stream processors. On Hawaii GCN, it combines two 32bit units for form 64bit stream processor.

Both NVIDIA Pascal SM and AMD GCN CU has identical 256KB register file to 64 stream processor/CUDA core count ratio.

Remember, AMD and Microsoft combined to force Intel to support AMD64 ISA.

@ronvalencia said:

Did i not mention compute? GTX 580 slams every single 600 series GPU in GPGPU, Hitman Absolution with everything maxed out uses GPGPU to calculate light sources, at 8xMSAA, the GPGPU performance of the 580 leverages it's performance when fully loaded and makes it out perform the 600 series in that game, it's why they are only tested at 4xMSAA, because they think it's a game bug when really teh 600 series are really bad at GPGPU.

Check the compute performance graph you posted, 580 rekking 2 GTX 680's in SLI (GTX 690)

MSAA is a ROPS and memory bandwidth function not shader processors.

"2 GTX 680's in SLI (GTX 690)" is clearly not working

Good bye NVIDIA Fermi with modern PS4/XBO era games. 6950's raw TFLOPS enable it to age better than Fermi.

For long term DirectX12 with SM6.0+Async compute games, AMD older GCNs will age better than NVIDIA counterparts and NVIDIA Fermi is an aging GPU design.

How's Quantum Break on your GTX 580?

How's Ashes of Singularity on your GTX 580?

There's more XBO DX12 ports with AMD GCN optimizations.

Simply put, the PS4k is a powerhouse no doubt. Lems are already nervous.

Your 580 will never keep up with PS4's GPU you fool...

This is a dumb thread. If that's the case then PS4 could run PS2 games in 4k but they are only 1080P

The PS4's GPU is considerably weaker.

1080P maxed GTX 580.

Let alone a 480 taking the piss out of both consoles lol.

Yes we know that the consoles are weak sauce, plus they have no games.

It's not 'considerably weaker' at all... the GTX 580 is a little bit faster then a 7850 but PS4 isn't a PC now is it?

Toss in much more efficient coding and PS4's GPU slams that old as shit GTX 580 around and if you have the version with the piddly 1.5Gb of VRAM PS4 will smack it around even more.

I just fucking love how people compare 2 graphics cards on PC as a way to compare the way a GPU in a console VS PC are used.....

Different platforms numb nuts with different API's and coding.

Theoretically speaking, pigs could fly.

The 580 is around 5-10% faster than the HD 7870, factor in it's stock clock of 775mhz and it is able to hit almost 1000mhz with an OC... the PS4 is no where near it, and memory does not work how you think it does.

The 580 has a 384-bit bus with a massive memory bandwidth of over 200GB/s which means data that is to be used in Vram is used much faster thanks to the memory sub system being so rapid, thus meaning it can handle more memory intensive things than a lower bandiwdth card with the same Vram. A slower memory system would make the 1.5GB a very limiting factor, however it's not the case with the 580.

I mean you must think the 8GB GDDR5 in your PS4 makes it superior to a GTX 970 with only 4GB ram lol.

My 580 validation.

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/details.php?id=des9h

I highly doubt PS4.5 will be doing native 4k gaming. Maybe upscaled. Considering how much hardware muscle you need to even get playable 4k on PC currently, GTX 980 minimum, 980 TI preferred. Plus a strong CPU and enough memory to not bottleneck the GPU. Cramming that much hardware into a console and selling it for $500 is not going to happen.

For this gen games yes you are correct, PS3 titles... easy.

They can, when you fire them from a cannon.

Lets get a few things straight sun shine... My PC is much much faster then yours..... You use 970's to take the piss? I own 2 of them....

I've built way more complex PC's then you ( Loads of single stage cooled PC's ) and overclocked a shit load more parts then you so don't for one second think you know any where near as much as PC hardware then I do.

Also the GTX 580 was notorious for being completely VRAM limited with the stock 1.5Gb which is why a 3gb version was released, after all whats the point in giving the card all that power and bandwidth if it doesn't have the power to use it? It was so fucking shit at high resolutions and when running high quality assets that the slower 6950/6970 would stomp all over it and as the resolution increased the 6950/6970 only pulled further a head because they had the memory to handle the bigger frame buffers.

Memory bandwidth means jack shit if you don't have the local VRAM to make use of it....

PS4 is a CLOSED boxed system and because of that will be a lot more optimized then the PC equivalent of it's GPU will ever be, that is just pure fact. PS3's RSX GPU was a GTX7800 but you try running PS3 games on that GPU.... It can't do it!!!

My PC numb nuts..... Have fun with medium textures on your VRAM limited GPU.

Everyone clap for the fool.

Be right back, about to make him cry.

For the record, I didn't purchase the PS4 not because of it's raw power, graphics and such, I purchase the consoles cause they had the games I wanted to play and I'm totally okay what I have as of now. As long as I can continue to play PS4 games that aren't mandatory for PS4.5 console, I see no need to go buy another mini upgrade console.

Now having said this, I just don't think the majority of PS4 owners really cares about playing 4K games and just wants great exclusive games to play on it.